Minimum Alcohol pricing to be signed into Law

odyssey06

Gaygooner wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/unit-pricing-of-alcohol-better-than-low-cost-selling-310772.html
Cold you at least try to post in a civil respectful manner?

Did you actually read that article? It quotes no actual real facts. The "research", if it can be called that, consisted of a "modelling" study. Whatever that means. It doesn't appear to connect to the real world or real people at any point in its "research".
If governments are relying on this level of research in any area of public policy, we're f****d.

Dravokivich

Gaygooner wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/unit-pricing-of-alcohol-better-than-low-cost-selling-310772.html


Cold you at least try to post in a civil respectful manner?

Nothing will change positively though. That wasn't a practical study as far as I've ever read.

What will happen, is people who are problem drinkers, will have less money to spend on other goods such as groceries, clothing, other consumables and utilities. All for no reason what so ever, other than to pay more for Alcohol.

syklops

Dravokivich wrote: »

Nothing will change positively though. That wasn't a practical study as far as I've ever read.

What will happen, is people who are problem drinkers, will have less money to spend on other goods such as groceries, clothing, other consumables and utilities. All for no reason what so ever, other than to pay more for Alcohol.

And kids will suffer as a result. In some households, all this bill will do is remove money from the domestic budget. Good job Leo.

Dizzyblonde

One day ban for dr.fuzzenstein for being uncivil. Personal attacks will not be tolerated in this forum.

Remember - attack the post, not the poster!

BuilderPlumber

I think there are from thinking about this whole issue, four major problems here that do need to be solved. I will list and explain in a minute but I believe that we have had no real solution to them because of political infighting, opposition for the sake of opposition and dreaded civil war politics. The issues are: problem drinking, expensive prices (not just for alcohol but for all goods), bringing in legislation without thinking about its other consequences and vested interests.

Looking at problem drinking first: as explained, a certain section of Ireland have a drink problem. Research needs to be done into who these are and why they have a problem. We have mentioned other countries like Norway, France, Germany, Czech Republic and Austria: problem drinking and drinkers are also in each of these countries as well but the main difference is it is not tolerated on the streets especially after midnight. In any city in Ireland at pub and/or club closing time, you meet 100s of menacing yobbos out of their mind on alcohol and probably cocaine shouting at the top of their voices and sometimes smashing bottles of drink they brought with them at the end of the night. At worst, these become violent. I do not see gardai coming in and taking these yobbos off the streets. You see this the whole time in Cork or Dublin or any other city. It is exported to country pubs when these busloads of these types go on their mystery tours. 95% of this ironically is done by pub and club goers who have no problem buying alcohol far more expensive than the most stringent of the proposed legislation sets out. I proposed a proper solution to this in earlier posts in short allowing gardai to arrest these yobbos, getting them to pay extra if they end up in A&E and getting them to pay for any damage caused.

Prices in Ireland in general are way too high. The prices of everything from insurance to transport to food and drink goods (incl. alcohol) have gone through the roof and there is a culture of one person ripping off another and then passing it down the chain until the last person pays for the whole lot. Pubs often charge over €4 for what are average everyday drinks and provide some poor keyboard player charging €200 for 2 hours belting out poor copies of already atrocious Irish country music. They pass this onto the customer via their high prices. High prices have caused poverty and in normal recessions, prices would come down. Next time you are paying €4.50 for a pint of booze while enduring poor country music or sitting in an ancient and dirty Bus Eireann bus after paying €30 or paying through the nose for insurance and it does not cover what it is supposed to, remember this. We are paying through the nose for poor service making certain individuals rich. Here, they went up and this was facilitated by government.

Legislation is proposed to deal with one problem but it does not solve it and instead creates more. Banning alcohol sponsorship of festivals and sport is one. Where will the money come from otherwise? It is not like we are awash with it like other places. Events need all the sponsorship they can get I know and sponsorship from both alcohol and nonalcohol products is welcome. However, affore mentioned brutal country music keyboard player is rubbing his hands with glee as it is more gigs for him.

Vested interests always have ruined things. Vintners, insurance companies, IMRO, various Quangos, etc. all are in on the act when it comes to legislation like this, all there to look after their own. The government and opposition are often so caught up in going against each other that when legislation comes in, it is flawed and counterproductive.

IMO I do not see the most extreme version of this legislation coming it. Some form of it will come in and the government of the day will be crowing that something was done as another poster stated. However, the yobbos you see in our cities roaring at the top of their voices tanked up on booze and drugs will still be there laughing all the way to oblivion.

odyssey06

Geuze wrote: »

As far as I see, it should have very little effect on JDW.
In fact, by increasing off-trade prices, it makes JDW relatively cheaper.

I meant there would be a slight increase in some JDW prices as a result of this, but I think in the long run you are right. This will be a boon to JDW in terms of market share and if it did come to pass, create more of a market for cheap basic boozers.

L1011

Gaygooner wrote: »

He knows that banning happy hours and ending late Thursday drinking was very positive ask the doctors and IBEC! We only have this issue due to the below cost selling law Eddie Hobbs got repealed

Again - proof?

You linked to a 12 year old report (predating both changes) that didn't cover a thing.

Gaygooner

Gaygooner wrote: »

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/FinalReport.pdf/Files/FinalReport.pdf

131 pages and ctrl-f didn't show anything to back up your assertion.

Gaygooner wrote: »

He knows that banning happy hours and ending late Thursday drinking was very positive ask the doctors and IBEC! We only have this issue due to the below cost selling law Eddie Hobbs got repealed

That's a complete and outright lie.

rubadub

odyssey06 wrote: »

I meant there would be a slight increase in some JDW prices as a result of this

I can't think of any drink which would increase. Maybe you saw some one off heavily reduced drink there, or maybe you are thinking of the incorrect figures which the media gave out?

There is a menu from sept for TTT in blackrock here
https://www.facebook.com/TheThreeTunTavern/photos/pb.723713404334609.-2207520000.1450365099./970478792991401/?type=3&theater

I cannot see any that would need to increase, but its a bit blurry. The cheapest pints are €2.50, bottles are 2.45 but I expect they are 330ml or so.

At 568ml a pint would need to be 5.6% to be €2.50, I doubt any of the draught pints are that.

A 35.5ml measure of 40% spirits can be sold as low as €1.12

odyssey06

rubadub wrote: »

I can't think of any drink which would increase. Maybe you saw some one off heavily reduced drink there, or maybe you are thinking of the incorrect figures which the media gave out?
I cannot see any that would need to increase, but its a bit blurry. The cheapest pints are €2.50, bottles are 2.45 but I expect they are 330ml or so.

There were €2 pints for a while in the Forty Foot, back in early summer 2015... then there was a set of price increases (possibly due to sterling exchange, or the initial prices were promo only) so those increases may well have moved them beyond the minimum price.

I think at the moment you can get an alcoholic beverage (pint, house spirit+dash, glass of wine) for €2 as a combo add-on to your meal... not sure what effect the legislation would have on that?

BeerNut

And the €2 pints will be back in the January sale a couple of weeks, I'd say.

rubadub

odyssey06 wrote: »

There were €2 pints for a while in the Forty Foot, back in early summer 2015.

A pint can be up to 4.4% and still be €2. 4.5% would have to be €2.02. I think most cheap ones I saw were around 4-4.2%

odyssey06 wrote: »

I think at the moment you can get an alcoholic beverage (pint, house spirit+dash, glass of wine) for €2 as a combo add-on to your meal... not sure what effect the legislation would have on that

To begin with I think the house pints would be under €2 anyway. If the add on was €1 there may be a problem, but they would simply have to reword the meals and have 2 prices.

So I think a €10 meal comes with a soft drink as standard, and the upgrade is €2, so now they can just price it as €10 and €11 if they did want the pint option to be just €1.

If they are not allowed have 2 prices of the same pint and consider it a discount then they may just simply not serve house beers or wine separately, i.e. you can only get that lager with meals, you cannot buy a pint.

This is sort of similar to a loophole I suggested in the happy hour law. They could have a single brand of vodka or beer which magically appears in the pub at 6pm and magically all runs out at the strike of 7pm.

I was also wondering about supermarkets, will spirits be sold with free mixers, the mixer may have to be shrink wrapped to the bottle, it may even have to have a different barcode on the soft drinks bottle, but I would be fairly sure there is a workaround.

rubadub

BeerNut wrote: »

And the €2 pints will be back in the January sale a couple of weeks, I'd say.

this was last years one.



4.3% €1.93
4.4% €1.97

Pretty sure those are 4.3% max so they could could still have it if min pricing came in.

Below was in october 2014

Mr. teddywinkles

Gaygooner wrote: »

I drink spirits and a mixer. I don't drink to excess.

We had late opening on Thursdays and had to scrap it because absenteeism rose and production collapsed on Fridays.

We as a nation have a poor relationship with alcohol

If your talking about young people drinking excessively it doesn't count

Dravokivich

It appears Prime Time are on about this tonight.

BuilderPlumber

Dravokivich wrote: »

It appears Prime Time are on about this tonight.

And followed up with a programme promoting the virtues of the Irish pub. Says it all really about the REAL motives behind this.

dan1895

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

And followed up with a programme promoting the virtues of the Irish pub. Says it all really about the REAL motives behind this.

Noticed that and decided not to bother with it.

syklops

Watching the Prime Time episode now. The doctor refferred to Canada where minimum pricing seems to have worked. I was in Canada last week, and a bottle of Canadian Club 700mls was 15.93 euro.

beertons

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

And followed up with a programme promoting the virtues of the Irish pub. Says it all really about the REAL motives behind this.

The guy in the cream jacket in the palace was a publican, I knew him for years.

BeerNut

syklops wrote: »

Watching the Prime Time episode now. The doctor refferred to Canada where minimum pricing seems to have worked. I was in Canada last week, and a bottle of Canadian Club 700mls was 15.93 euro.

I didn't see the show, but it's specifically British Columbia that gets trotted out as the place where MUP worked.

L1011

BeerNut wrote: »

I didn't see the show, but it's specifically British Columbia that gets trotted out as the place where MUP worked.

Presumably by booze cruising to other provinces and Washington... Comparisons to a non nationwide system are useless

L1011

I got an acknowledgement of my email to Varadkar today. Not of its contents, though...

11214

I emailed everyone local to me last week and have heard nothing back.

BuilderPlumber

beertons wrote: »

The guy in the cream jacket in the palace was a publican, I knew him for years.

From my experience, the pubs have only themselves to blame if they are doing poorly. For example, last night I was in a pub in a rural area of Cork and was greeted by a sourpuss barman and a local radio station on full blast playing atrocious modern Irish country music of the worst kind. There was no music playing there apart from the awful drivel on the radio. Many people including myself looked in and went off again as it was not worth supporting.

If this is how pubs are operating, it is no wonder no one bothers with them. All these cynical moves to curb cheaper supermarket alternatives will not work. Would it kill the pub to put on a bit of proper entertainment or encourage a sing song and greet people with a smile rather than a sourpuss? Apparently not: greeted by a sourpuss with a radio on full blast playing the worst genre of music ever at full blast will not encourage anyone.

dr.fuzzenstein

^^^^^^^

Anyone pub who plays that sh*t should be burned down:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDw7tk4qMBo

listermint

Whens this Scottish European Ruling due thought i was this week ?

oblivious

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Anyone pub who plays that sh*t should be burned down

@dr.fuzzenstein keep the thread on topic please

BuilderPlumber

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

^^^^^^^

Anyone pub who plays that sh*t should be burned down:

<snip>

The vintners should look to why pubs have often failed instead of putting their noses into the debate on drink sold elsewhere. Usually, these pubs are the ones that are the only one in a village and have gotten used to a scenario where they can just do nothing and expect customers to come in. When they stop coming in, they wonder why but it is clear as day why no one wants to go to them.

Up until shops like Centra came to local villages, I guess the boring pub was the only place to buy drink. That's why they fear these shops that sell drink for a lot less. I will for one not be going out much over Christmas and will instead have a few drinks and watch some DVDs of Bond, Love/Hate, Mad Max, Breaking Bad, etc. A lot more besides me will be doing the same thing. This is why all these pubs are joining forces with the anti-booze brigade and why home drinking is becoming as socially unacceptable as smoking has become.

Also, I think it is ignorant to have the radio on full blast, especially playing awful music. It ruins the chat and if the man behind the bar is big into it, he should listen to it at home or record it.

syklops

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

The vintners should look to why pubs have often failed instead of putting their noses into the debate on drink sold elsewhere. Usually, these pubs are the ones that are the only one in a village and have gotten used to a scenario where they can just do nothing and expect customers to come in. When they stop coming in, they wonder why but it is clear as day why no one wants to go to them.

Up until shops like Centra came to local villages, I guess the boring pub was the only place to buy drink. That's why they fear these shops that sell drink for a lot less. I will for one not be going out much over Christmas and will instead have a few drinks and watch some DVDs of Bond, Love/Hate, Mad Max, Breaking Bad, etc. A lot more besides me will be doing the same thing. This is why all these pubs are joining forces with the anti-booze brigade and why home drinking is becoming as socially unacceptable as smoking has become.

Also, I think it is ignorant to have the radio on full blast, especially playing awful music. It ruins the chat and if the man behind the bar is big into it, he should listen to it at home or record it.

Funnily enough, years ago it was common for the local pub to also be the off license. Also, about 20 years ago or so, when my parents were of regular pub going age, it was common to be able to get a bottle of whiskey or a bottle of wine in the pub to take home. I suppose the difference between off trade and pub prices were much closer than they are now.

neris

syklops wrote: »

Funnily enough, years ago it was common for the local pub to also be the off license. Also, about 20 years ago or so, when my parents were of regular pub going age, it was common to be able to get a bottle of whiskey or a bottle of wine in the pub to take home. I suppose the difference between off trade and pub prices were much closer than they are now.

was in one of the regular pubs id go to on a a night out a few weeks back and was leaving just before 10 so knew i wouldnt make the local lidl to get cans. asked the barman if they sold cans of heineken. they did, at €24 for 6 cans no thanks. places will sell you bottles of whiskey or wine but rather then charge for the bottle they,ll charge you what the bottle would sell for if it had been sold in measures behind the bar