Minimum Alcohol pricing to be signed into Law

Because it is a targeted measure against off-licences and supermarkets because they are the source of the problem

Feisar

I do be across the border regularly and literally drive by an offy so it's has handy pull there as it is down the road. If anyone intends to home brew vodka keep yer mouths shut about it. Loose tongues was often the killer of the poitin man back in the day.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118426140#Comment_118426140

And a ban on below cost selling wouldn't be?

Also, publicans trying to claim they are in no way responsible for problem drinking (by pointing the finger at others) is absolutely hilarious - but they do, and it appears people believe them.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118426140#Comment_118426140

Up to the 1960s or so off-licences were quite rare compared with to-day. Did we have an alcohol problem back then? We sure did, and your assertion about supermarkets being the source of the problem is total Grade A* tripe.

silver2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118425615#Comment_118425615

Like many that are against this you are being very very selective.

Alcohol on promotion WAS dirt cheap here. In many cases it was sold below the cost of the excise duty alone. (24 cans guinness @ excise duty + vat on excise duty is €15.94 - yet sold at €15)

Increasing excise would not stop the abuse of alcohol as a loss leader - as example above shows.

And whilst some will pop across the border, it will be a tiny number and not the scaremonger bull that the anti mup contingent are suggesting. - And example? - Wales and Scotland. None of the exact same scaremongering bull predictions have come about and it has led to improvements in health

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118426344#Comment_118426344

We had a below cost selling ban in the past. It was removed by Micheal Martin as minister. It would be exceptionally easy to bring it back in; far easier than MUP was.

And anyway, that still doesn't show that those cans were "dirt cheap" at that price. That is still a fairly significant price compared to many other similar European countries as our excise duty is on the high end.

The pejorative language, appeals to emotion and the likes from the tiny number on here that are in favour of MUP show that the argument is bust.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118426075#Comment_118426075

Just take a walk into your local supermarket.

The proof is there on the shelves.

Ordinary drinks have all increased in price.

That "strong drink" nonsense is exposed for the lie it was.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118426360#Comment_118426360

Given that its now in place, we'll have to wait and see how the data pans out.

Based on the data from Wales, its likely to have a very positive effect on consumption and health

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118426617#Comment_118426617

And what about the data from Scotland? Drug use and abuse on the rise?

Also Wales brought it in in the middle of a pandemic, so the impact is unclear at best.

Also if cost of alcohol is supposed to curb consumption, how come with the highest alcohol prices in Europe pre-MUP, Ireland had record high consumption. Clearly price does not correlate to overall consumption - this measure is nothing more than an attempt to make pub drinking more competitive.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118426689#Comment_118426689

Price hikes do have an impact on consumption, you only need to look at cigarettes for evidence of that.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118426617#Comment_118426617

And while we wait ordinary people consuming modest amounts of drink in their own homes will be paying hundreds of euro per annum over the odds for the privilege.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118426782#Comment_118426782

That's typically what happens when the price of something goes up, or less is consumed.

My guess is it will be the latter, but we'll have to wait and see

DarkJager21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118426762#Comment_118426762

All you have for that is official figures and if people aren’t buying products from official sources then you don’t really have any evidence solid enough to indicate an impact on consumption.

There is a booming black market for tobacco now in this country, much cheaper and not a cent goes to the state. Those 50c price hikes every year are sure sorting those smokers out eh?

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118426821#Comment_118426821

You are missing the point the price did not "go up" in the normal sense ie. increased production costs, transport charges etc.

The price has been artificially inflated by legislation.

Ordinary people drinking modest amounts do not need to reduce their consumption or be forced to pay more.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118426762#Comment_118426762

Education has done far more to combat cigarette use than price hikes - also black market sales of fags have never been higher.

While tax take from fags has decreased that doesnt mean that consumption is following the same rate of decline - just that people are getting them elsewhere.

Macy0161

Consumption has been trending down anyway, including over the pandemic, so if that continues it may not be due to MUP - correlation does not equal causation.

Have to laugh at Off Licences being the source of the problem - back in the 80's one of the pubs in my rural village homeplace was known as "The Clinic" due to those queuing everyday waiting on the opening to "cure" their shakes.

The Nal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118427412#Comment_118427412

Pub near me still has that. 5 or 6 people outside the pub at 10.20am. Stay till 6, home for dinner, back to the pub at 7pm till close. Every day.

First time buying booze since the change. This was €7.49. Think I paid €8.25 for it today.

https://groceries.aldi.ie/en-GB/ALDIIE/p-cotes-du-rhone-villages-appellation-cotes-du-rhone-villages-controlee-75cl-cuvee-reserve/4088600088907

Hotblack Desiato

Pub near me still has that. 5 or 6 people outside the pub at 10.20am. Stay till 6, home for dinner, back to the pub at 7pm till close. Every day.

I'd love to know how they afford it!

Did anyone see the MUP discussion on Prime Time - for once, pretty balanced. The former alcoholic guy wasn't in favour of it and made some very good points about how it ignores the realities of addiction, and more services are needed. The students' union president spoke very well as well.

AAI basically didn't have a clue what to do when other people were actually allowed question them and contradict their lies. That never happened on any of the dozens of RTE radio talk shows they've been on over the years, it was always just them and the host and some soft questions.

Disgraceful though that the first time RTE even try to have some balance on this issue is when the legislation is already in place, enacted, commenced, and the higher prices are already in place in the shops. It's "safe" for them now to allow MUP to be questioned, because it's too late. Fúcking RTE 😡

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118431210#Comment_118431210

It's been on the cards for years that this was coming in and there was bugger all resistance compared to other proposals so it went through with full support. Fair play to them for following through.

As for RTE, they are a broadcaster not a political lobby, not sure what you want them to do

tdf7187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118426075#Comment_118426075

I challenge this idea that strong drink was ever available for pittance in this country. I think the Irish mentality is somehow conditioned to paying high prices for anything perceived as being 'bad' for us or an 'indulgence'. When something is somewhat reasonable value, it is described as 'pittance'.

A 2l cheap bottle of water costs 45c. A cheap 2l bottle of cider would have cost approx €3.70 (pre-MUP). So the cheap alcoholic alternative to a cheap non-alcoholic beverage was almost 10 times the price pre-MUP.

What's really underlying it is class snobbery ("the proles shouldn't be allowed cheap treats, they can't handle them") And even the Irish Times readership aren't buying it.

If you used the UK examples of white cider you might have a point. But we're not in the UK.

Black Sheep

I’m not in favor of the MUP as enacted, but that is cheap, as a previous poster kept saying, it’s quite obviously cheap! And the beer deals were cheap too, irrespective of whether they were cheaper in Spain.

It’s not convincing to say we didn’t have cheap alcohol in recent times, especially compared to the 90s and early 00s.

And why should strong cider be compared price wise to cheap water, in any context, I’m genuinely baffled…

Hotblack Desiato

As for RTE, they are a broadcaster not a political lobby, not sure what you want them to do

Exactly. They're a broadcaster, not a political lobby and not supposed to be a mouthpiece for a lobby group, vested interest, or political view. But that's exactly what they've been doing for years whenever the MUP issue was being "discussed"

There was no resistance because most people were either not aware of MUP or not aware of its implications. Maybe they naively didn't think that our legislators could be bought so cheaply.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118431825#Comment_118431825

You haven't seen the pro-MUP comments comparing the price of beer unfavourably to the price of bottled soft drinks?

I think the poster was responding to that.

Macy0161

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420299#Comment_118420299

Early days I know, but those mentioned above seem to be the main increases in Tesco. The rest of the craft range haven't changed. Early days I know, but the crafty (rye river), porterhouse and Brú beers were the same price as before Christmas in Lidl.

Black Sheep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118431990#Comment_118431990

No, what do they say? I just read the comments above comparing the pricing of water to cider.

rightmove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118425687#Comment_118425687

Last 6 words in your post is what this is all about

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118432801#Comment_118432801

It's been a political trope for a decade that 'beer is cheaper than water'. Recent example by Stephen Donnelly below. It's usually a tortured comparison using the dearest (i.e. smallest) unit that supermarkets sell water in and ignoring that the 5L bottle is often little more than a 500ml bottle.

Donnelly: 'Not ok' that supermarkets selling alcohol cheaper than water (breakingnews.ie)

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118432801#Comment_118432801

"When beer is cheaper than water, it’s just too easy for people to get drunk on cheap alcohol at home before they even set foot in the pub."

• David Cameron

"BEER is cheaper than water in many Irish supermarkets. Consumers can buy a bottle of beer for as little as 50c while a small bottle of water can cost over three times that amount."

• Beer 'cheaper than water' in shops - Independent.ie

"It is more expensive for young people to buy cinema tickets or bottled water than alcohol and tragically, large numbers of young people binge drink, usually beginning underage."

• Royal College of Physicians Ireland
• MUP-info-guide.pdf (rcpi-live-cdn.s3.amazonaws.com)

Blut2

The idea that off license alcohol was cheap here pre-MUP, or comparable to our cost of living, is absolute nonsense. Go to a supermarket in Frankfurt, or one in Paris, and see how much alcohol costs. Its a hell of a lot cheaper than Ireland, despite very high income levels / cost of living there.

Its not just "poor" countries that have cheaper alcohol than us, Ireland pre-MUP already had the second highest price for alcohol in the entire EU. And this didn't stop our problem drinking.