More Speed Limits for Bikes

tomasrojo

GoTilUBlow wrote: »

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/new-us-style-speed-limit-specifically-for-cyclists-to-be-introduced-for-first-time-in-ireland/

Great to see measures imported from the cycling paradise of Austrlia. What can go wrong?

seamus

Speed "regulation", only the journos appear to use the word "limit"

Lumen

Morons.

07Lapierre

Will this mean that a cyclist cycling along the road (not on the cycle path) will not have to abide by the speed limit on the cycle track? (if a limit is set)

AFAIK speed limits on roads do not apply to bicycles and the use of the cycle track along Clontarf is not obligatory.

ednwireland

as someone said earlier local elections coming up, plans to abolish/merge councils. so lots of people looking for an easy hit. whether it works or not is irrelevant

Doctor Bob

seamus wrote: »

Speed "regulation", only the journos appear to use the word "limit"

The stickybottle story repeats the mistakes of the Indo headline regarding the confusion of speed regulation and speed limits. The NTA has no statutory role regarding speed limits; that's the job of the Department of Transport, who are nowhere namechecked.

Zillah

God this is stupid. How on Earth am I suppose to know how fast I am going? How are they? Are there radar guns even calibrated for a small, non-reflective target? I love how the article mentions a "US-style limit", and then points out that the limit is for Central Park. Bikes aren't even allowed in Stephen's Green so it's a very disingenuous comparison.

They should slap a few "Go Slowly" signs, or some "<- Watch for Pedestrians ->" and "<- Watch for Cyclists ->" signs/roadmarkings at a few of the busier sections where pedestrians are likely to be crossing. I genuinely think reminding people to be civil to each other works a hell of a lot better than unenforceable rules.

Anyway, have there been a spate of cyclist/pedestrian collisions along there recently? Has there been a single one? Political show-boating, nothing more.

Stollaire

How do you regulate speed for cyclists?
Gates? Those stupid dangerous bumps on the grand canal? traffic lights?

Dermot Illogical

Lumen wrote: »

Morons.

What I love about that post is the ambiguity as to who it might be aimed at.

Jawgap

Dermot Illogical wrote: »

What I love about that post is the ambiguity as to who it might be aimed at.

It certainly has a Father Jack quality about it..........

check_six

Here is an article from last year in Melbourne
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/whats-the-rush-planner-demands-cyclist-speed-limit-20120518-1yw89.html

Some loolah is looking for a 20kph limit for bikes in the city centre, while the motor vehicles are limited to 40kph. Suggests bikes could be a 'silent killer'.

I don't know if there is an update to this, or what the result of any associated election was...

Doctor Bob

Stollaire wrote: »

How do you regulate speed for cyclists?
Gates? Those stupid dangerous bumps on the grand canal? traffic lights?

The Dutch use things called bromfietsdrempels to regulate the speed of mopeds on their cycle tracks. They're a type of ramp that causes minimal inconvenience to cyclists going at a medium pace.

http://www.everytrail.com/view_picture.php?picture_id=1966627

Zillah

Dermot Illogical wrote: »

What I love about that post is the ambiguity as to who it might be aimed at.

It's aimed at the people instituting a speed limit for bikes. I would have thought that was obvious.

lennymc

Doctor Bob wrote: »

The Dutch use things called bromfietsdrempels to regulate the speed of mopeds on their cycle tracks. They're a type of ramp that causes minimal inconvenience to cyclists going at a medium pace.

http://www.everytrail.com/view_picture.php?picture_id=1966627

they would be great for practicing jumps.

deandean

Naw the Gardai don't even have to leave their desk. Here are the results for the Clontarf cyclopath. GPS certified, names excluded..... :pac:

Dermot Illogical

deandean wrote: »

Naw the Gardai don't even have to leave their desk. Here are the results for the Clontarf cyclopath. GPS certified, names excluded..... :pac:

Which segment?

deandean

Dermot Illogical wrote: »

Which segment?

Clontarf Rd bike path Alfie Byrne-Vernon

Inquitus

Is Strava admissable as evidence?

Amirani

check_six wrote: »

Here is an article from last year in Melbourne
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/whats-the-rush-planner-demands-cyclist-speed-limit-20120518-1yw89.html

Some loolah is looking for a 20kph limit for bikes in the city centre, while the motor vehicles are limited to 40kph. Suggests bikes could be a 'silent killer'.

I don't know if there is an update to this, or what the result of any associated election was...

That's mind numbingly stupid.

Seweryn

NiallSparky wrote: »

That's mind numbingly stupid.

Yeah, but this is Australia, a place where cycling is seen as strange activity for strange people that need compulsory helmets and speed limits to be applied to.

Inquitus

Also whats the proposed speed limit? anything north of 20kph is probably too fast if the concern is about pedestrian welfare on collision.

Stollaire

Doctor Bob wrote: »

The Dutch use things called bromfietsdrempels to regulate the speed of mopeds on their cycle tracks. They're a type of ramp that causes minimal inconvenience to cyclists going at a medium pace.

http://www.everytrail.com/view_picture.php?picture_id=1966627

That's a good idea, so I guess we''ll get gates.

Spook_ie

Seweryn wrote: »

I can't understand how this is going to work.

To obey a speed limit you should know what speed you are doing. For this reason all bikes should be factory equipped with speedometers. So how are they going to prosecute people for speeding on bicycles? At the moment speed limits apply only to motorised vehicles, as they are equipped with speedometers.

Easy enough to put up a couple of flashing speed detectors. With a warning to slow down ( change to local bye laws probably needed ) if you didn't slow down then the offense of breaking a bye law comes into effect, enforceable by Garda, Traffic Wardens or ( new job ) Cycle Wardens

Simple enough really if the will is there

Jawgap

Spook_ie wrote: »

Easy enough to put up a couple of flashing speed detectors. With a warning to slow down ( change to local bye laws probably needed ) if you didn't slow down then the offense of breaking a bye law comes into effect, enforceable by Garda, Traffic Wardens or ( new job ) Cycle Wardens

Simple enough really if the will is there

Good idea - that way I can calibrate my Garmin at the first detector before I head off and cycle on the road :rolleyes:

Spook_ie

Jawgap wrote: »

Good idea - that way I can calibrate my Garmin at the first detector before I head off and cycle on the road :rolleyes:

Exactly your going at a clip on the road not at a clip on a pedestrian shared facility

Jawgap

Spook_ie wrote: »

Exactly your going at a clip on the road not at a clip on a pedestrian shared facility

It's not a shared facility - it is, for a large part, physically separated from the pedestrian track (from the wooden bridge to Fairview)......


....and if the rationale for a speed limit stems from the idea that it is shared use, what about all the other shared use cycle tracks?

If your idea is adopted it sounds like investing in the company making cycling speed detectors would be a good punt........

SteelyDanJalapeno

A cyclist struck me when I was younger, guy was coming around a wide bend at about 40 km/hr, doctor said had of been going any faster he could of killed me.

If it saves lives I'm all for it.

Spook_ie

Spook_ie wrote: »

Exactly your going at a clip on the road not at a clip on a pedestrian shared facility

Jawgap wrote: »

It's not a shared facility - it is, for a large part, physically separated from the pedestrian track (from the wooden bridge to Fairview)......


....and if the rationale for a speed limit stems from the idea that it is shared use, what about all the other shared use cycle tracks?

If your idea is adopted it sounds like investing in the company making cycling speed detectors would be a good punt........

Is it or is it not partly shared? QED

As to investing in speed detector companies then yeah if the solution went down that path why not, I just mention a way it would probably be legal and enforcable to limit speeds on cycle tracks i.e a facility not on the road which is not under the remit of the NTA

Seweryn

Inquitus wrote: »

Also whats the proposed speed limit? anything north of 20kph is probably too fast if the concern is about pedestrian welfare on collision.

But how on Earth every cyclist is going to know if he/she is over the limit? I am not talking about some cyclists that have installed computers on their bikes.

Secondly, as pedestrians welfare goes, should the much heavier motorised vehicles not be restricted to even lower speed?

No Pants

Cr Ong said he was almost struck by a cyclist moving at speed recently. ''The other day when I walked out from town hall I nearly got run over from a cyclist who shot through a red light as I was crossing Little Collins Street right in front of town hall.''

Well done that man for completely missing the actual problem.

Jawgap

TiltedBrain wrote: »

A cyclist struck me when I was younger, guy was coming around a wide bend at about 40 km/hr, doctor said had of been going any faster he could of killed me.

If it saves lives I'm all for it.

I cycled around several bends today and struck no one - where's even the sniff of evidence that this will save an ingrown toenail, never mind a life.

Spook_ie wrote: »

Is it or is it not partly shared? QED

As to investing in speed detector companies then yeah if the solution went down that path why not, I just mention a way it would probably be legal and enforcable to limit speeds on cycle tracks i.e a facility not on the road which is not under the remit of the NTA

Nah, no QED - you did not prove what you set out to prove - the run from Sutton to Fairview can be divided into four stages -

1. Sutton to the start of the start of the cycle way - track shared with motor vehicles
2. Start of cycle way to the causeway - shared with peds
3. Causeway to the wooden bridge - shared with motor vehicles
4. Woodenbridge to Fairview - physically separated from the pedestrian path.

the City Council "will be developing proposals for speed regulation along the Clontarf Promenade" - in other words Woodenbridge to Fairview - the physically separated bit where the track runs close to the road and is separated by a low wall from the peds on the right and several acres of grass from the peds on the left........

......now that's QED (and QEF):pac::pac:

EDIT: -from Clontarf.ie -

in the 1950s Dublin Corporation commenced work on the promenade which when completed stretched 3 kilometres in length from Fairview Park to Bull Wall in Dollymount.

check_six

Seweryn wrote: »

But how on Earth every cyclist is going to know if he/she is over the limit? I am not talking about some cyclists that have installed computers on their bikes.

Secondly, as pedestrians welfare goes, should the much heavier motorised vehicles not be restricted to even lower speed?

Well that's easy to answer, people in motor vehicles are in a hurry, and are important. People on bicycles are some kind of freaky weirdo outsiders, not like the rest of us. They're not going anywhere in a hurry on their journey, or in their lives.

I've covered the salient points of the argument there, right?

Spook_ie

Jawgap wrote: »

I cycled around several bends today and struck no one - where's even the sniff of evidence that this will save an ingrown toenail, never mind a life.



Nah, no QED - you did not prove what you set out to prove - the run from Sutton to Fairview can be divided into four stages -

1. Sutton to the start of the start of the cycle way - track shared with motor vehicles
2. Start of cycle way to the causeway - shared with peds
3. Causeway to the wooden bridge - shared with motor vehicles
4. Woodenbridge to Fairview - physically separated from the pedestrian path.

the City Council "will be developing proposals for speed regulation along the Clontarf Promenade" - in other words Woodenbridge to Fairview - the physically separated bit where the track runs close to the road and is separated by a low wall from the peds on the right and several acres of grass from the peds on the left........

......now that's QED (and QEF):pac::pac:

EDIT: -from Clontarf.ie -

Before you get too pedantic define what you mean by
a A cycle track
b A cycle path
c A cycle lane

Amirani

TiltedBrain wrote: »

A cyclist struck me when I was younger, guy was coming around a wide bend at about 40 km/hr, doctor said had of been going any faster he could of killed me.

If it saves lives I'm all for it.

A car struck me when I was younger, guy was coming around a wide bend at about 30 km/hr, doctor said had of been going any faster he could of killed me.

If it saves lives I'm all for it. Hence 20km/hr speed limit for cars please, it's 100% guaranteed to save lives.

No Pants

Well, the use of cycle lanes is no longer mandatory, so if a speed limit comes in and proves to be a problem, then cycle on the road. Problem solved.

Seweryn

No Pants wrote: »

Well, the use of cycle lanes is no longer mandatory, so if a speed limit comes in and proves to be a problem, then cycle on the road. Problem solved.

Sounds like an Irish solution to a problem.

Be grand .

quozl

Years ago I was also hit by a car that was travelling at about 20kph.

We should stop 20 year old lads drinking so that they won't walk in front of cars anymore.

Jawgap

Spook_ie wrote: »

Before you get too pedantic define what you mean by
a A cycle track
b A cycle path
c A cycle lane

wow - what's it going to take for you to accept that the stretch of cycling track they are referring to is for cyclists only - separated as it is from the pedestrian pavement and walkway.

I'll try again........

According to the City Council's own website
Clontarf Prom is defined as follows

Stretching for about 3 kilometres from Fairview Park to the Bull Wall at Dollymount, the Promenade is 40 metres wide and is about 26.5 hectares in extent. Reclaimed from the sea in the 1920s and finally completed and landscaped in the late 1950s, this much admired amenity is a popular location for a bracing seaside walk with every possibility in the winter or spring of encountering flocks of grazing Brent geese. At the Clontarf end of the Promenade, near the Dart line is the Children's Traffic School, constructed in 1971 and adjoining it is a well used floodlit all-weather facility for athletics and football. The prominent "Sails" sculpture was added in 1988; the dedicated cycle track in 1997;

Here's a photo of it (note the big sign!)......

Lusk_Doyle

Spook_ie wrote: »

Before you get too pedantic define what you mean by
a A cycle track
b A cycle path
c A cycle lane

It doesn't shagging well matter. Look at the repeated word in each of the above...CYCLE! If you ain't on a bike then stay the FCUK off the cyle track/path/lane/pad/whatever.

blainj2

I cycle that track all the time and i come across so many joggers and walkers on the cycle track. There are two other footpaths they could use to the left and right of the cycle track as other people have said but some people either knowingly or unknowingly decide to use the cycle track.

Its very dangerous. Maybe they should police the face that pedestrians shouldn't be standing around on the cycle track. The other section where the pedestrians and cyclists are only divided by a white line on the ground would be more dangerous in my opinion. Hope this doesn't happen, it is one of the only cycle tracks on the northside where you can get up a bit of speed and not get caught be lights every few minutes.

SteelyDanJalapeno

But what rights do cyclists have over pedestrians using the cycle lane? is there a fee? or some type of tax?

Kav0777

TiltedBrain wrote: »

But what rights do cyclists have over pedestrians using the cycle lane? is there a fee? or some type of tax?

... a road tax possibly?

Jawgap

TiltedBrain wrote: »

But what rights do cyclists have over pedestrians using the cycle lane? is there a fee? or some type of tax?

Out of interest what do you think the City Council meant when they described it as a "dedicated" cycle track?

That it was installed to commemorate Joe Dolan or that it was installed for use by cyclists?

rollingscone

TiltedBrain wrote: »

But what rights do cyclists have over pedestrians using the cycle lane? is there a fee? or some type of tax?

When motorists start paying a road tax (Not VRT) they can start asking others to pay it.

SteelyDanJalapeno

rollingscone wrote: »

When motorists start paying a road tax (Not VRT) they can start asking others to pay it.

What does it have to do with motorists?

Dermot Illogical

TiltedBrain wrote: »

But what rights do cyclists have over pedestrians using the cycle lane? is there a fee? or some type of tax?

Other than normal taxes, no. It's called infrastructure. Developed societies have it.

SteelyDanJalapeno

Dermot Illogical wrote: »

Other than normal taxes, no. It's called infrastructure. Developed societies have it.

So I'm failing to understand why cyclists should have exclusive rights to it?

Dermot Illogical

TiltedBrain wrote: »

So I'm failing to understand why cyclists should have exclusive rights to it?

You'll have to ask the council that. Or those that elected them.
http://www.dublincity.ie/

Ask them why you can't drive a moped in their swimming pools while you're at it.

Doctor Bob

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

It doesn't shagging well matter. Look at the repeated word in each of the above...CYCLE! If you ain't on a bike then stay the FCUK off the cyle track/path/lane/pad/whatever.

I realise we're getting a bit too far off topic (though maybe not as far off topic as another 'road tax' discussion!), but it's worth noting that a 'mechanically-propelled wheelchair' (14(5)(a)) is legally entitled to use cycle tracks, while pedestrians are legally entitled to use cycleways where expressly included.

SteelyDanJalapeno

Dermot Illogical wrote: »

You'll have to ask the council that. Or those that elected them.
http://www.dublincity.ie/

Ask them why you can't drive a moped in their swimming pools while you're at it.

Their private swimming pools?