Will you wear a poppy 2013?

Fratton Fred · 23-10-2013 9:28pm

Nodin wrote: »

Because its evil and wrong? And you should want to condemn it, Fred.

'But whatabout the Belgians....'

In hindsight it was a bad idea, however they merely sought a European ally, as had been a tradition since the time of the O'Neils.

I think you mean since the time of Mac Murchada?

And most of the empire was about trade, but in hindsight, it was bad.

What's Gerry's favourite phrase, I don't condone it or condemn it.

Karl Stein · 23-10-2013 9:39pm

vermin99 wrote: »

I honestly can't see why English people immediatly call IRA men murders

I don't think English people with an interest in the subject think in black and white 'goodies versus baddies' terms on the issue tbh.

Jimmy Garlic · 23-10-2013 9:47pm

Poppy wearing is less about remembrance and more of a self-righteous PR propaganda exercise for current wars that the UK is involved in. The British establishment aims to create a fake moral high ground and the perception that they have mass support for their bloody wars, current and past.

Sir Gallagher · 23-10-2013 9:50pm

I hate how when these debates pop up it plays out as if the IRA are our official army. I have no time for the British Army or the actions of the IRA post bloody Sunday. I would wear neither the Poppy or the Lily.

vermin99 · 23-10-2013 9:51pm

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Poppy wearing is less about remembrance and more of a self-righteous PR propaganda exercise for current wars that the UK is involved in. The British establishment aims to create a fake moral high ground and the perception that they have mass support for their bloody wars, current and past.

^^^^ you're gonna get soe backlash for that one!

Fratton Fred · 23-10-2013 10:01pm

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

I hate how when these debates pop up it plays out as if the IRA are our official army. I have no time for the British Army or the actions of the IRA post bloody Sunday. I would wear neither the Poppy or the Lily.

Maybe that's why every atrocity by the IRA is called as such and not by the Irish, but bloody Sunday etc is blamed on "the Brits".

Karl Stein · 23-10-2013 10:02pm

vermin99 wrote: »

^^^^ you're gonna get soe backlash for that one!

He has a point with the poppy fascism thing though. The poppy wearing is high-jacked and used to 'manufacture consent'.

I'm not British but if I was I think I'd be annoyed at how commemorating war dead is devalued by X-factor goons singing 'hero songs' for poppy day week month and TV presenters competing with each other to have it on earliest.

LordSutch · 23-10-2013 10:04pm

Charlie Rock wrote: »

I don't think English people with an interest in the subject think in black and white 'goodies versus baddies' terms on the issue tbh.

Charlie; Post#154 is hardly a proper response to #143 now is it.

Karl Stein · 23-10-2013 10:08pm

LordSutch wrote: »

Charlie; Post#154 is hardly a proper response to #143 now is it.

Why don't you quote them and show me how and then I'll respond.

If you click on the " over the + symbol in the bottom right of the box it activates the multiqoute function.

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Fratton Fred · 23-10-2013 10:14pm

Charlie Rock wrote: »

He has a point with the poppy fascism thing though. The poppy wearing is high-jacked and used to 'manufacture consent'.

I'm not British but if I was I think I'd be annoyed at how commemorating war dead is devalued by X-factor goons singing 'hero songs' for poppy day week month and TV presenters competing with each other to have it on earliest.

I wouldn't disagree with you there, but I will point out that there is a difference between wearing a poppy, which is a pretty multinational symbol of remembrance and wearing the RBL poppy.

Remember, in England, Wales and Scotland we had conscription, so the majority of those killed in two world wars were not professional soldiers.

LordSutch · 23-10-2013 10:16pm

Charlie Rock wrote: »

Why don't you quote them and show me how and then I'll respond.

:rolleyes:

If you can't be bothered looking back, then leave it, but I certainly ain't dancing to your tune.

Good night.

joe swanson · 23-10-2013 10:18pm

vermin99 wrote: »

I honestly can't see why English people immediatly call IRA men murders ,like if you think about if the english kept out and minded there own business all those years ago ,the IRA wouldn't have to go murdering.And to be fair you could say the same about the British army in some cases.IMO
Don't get me wrong the peace process was one of the best things happened to this land but the ira were not murderers

Lol. The ira were'nt murderers. Hilarious.

ghogie91 · 23-10-2013 10:24pm

Man we settled this LAST YEAR

Sir Gallagher · 23-10-2013 10:33pm

vermin99 wrote: »

I honestly can't see why English people immediatly call IRA men murders ,like if you think about if the english kept out and minded there own business all those years ago ,the IRA wouldn't have to go murdering.And to be fair you could say the same about the British army in some cases.IMO
Don't get me wrong the peace process was one of the best things happened to this land but the ira were not murderers

That is honestly the same belief i had on the situation....when i was 10 years of age.

Iwasfrozen · 23-10-2013 10:35pm

vermin99 wrote: »

Don't get me wrong the peace process was one of the best things happened to this land but the ira were not murderers

So what was all that murdering they did?

Karl Stein · 23-10-2013 10:36pm

LordSutch wrote: »

If you can't be bothered....

I did look back but wasn't sure what you're trying to say and if you bothered to multi-quote I wouldn't have asked in the first place.

I have no idea why you're getting annoyed by my request.

Sunnyisland · 23-10-2013 10:37pm

ghogie91 wrote: »

Man we settled this LAST YEAR

True

but it was old hippys turn this year to start the thread and I hope to do it next year, it's sort of a tradition here now

Karl Stein · 23-10-2013 10:43pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Remember, in England, Wales and Scotland we had conscription, so the majority of those killed in two world wars were not professional soldiers.

Fair point. I was recently watching a documentary* about miners brought in to fight the underground war in deep dangerous tunnels (WW1) and good god were they ever brave men, fascinating stuff.

I have nothing against British (or Irish ftm) soldiers who fought in those wars fwiw.

*I think it was BBC4, I'd highly recommend it.

Iwasfrozen · 23-10-2013 10:43pm

Nodin wrote: »

'But whatabout the Belgians....'

In hindsight it was a bad idea, however they merely sought a European ally, as had been a tradition since the time of the O'Neils.

...From fascist Imperialists...

I just wonder what the hell was going through his mind.

Sean Russell "Damn I sure do hate those Imperialists. Let's ally with Nazi Germany to defeat them!"

Karl Stein · 23-10-2013 10:44pm

realies wrote: »

True but it was old hippys turn this year to start the thread and I hope to do it next year, it's sort of a tradition here now

I got me hair done and got out the Charles and Diana crockery!!

Nodin · 23-10-2013 11:08pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

...From fascist Imperialists...

I just wonder what the hell was going through his mind.

Sean Russell "Damn I sure do hate those Imperialists. Let's ally with Nazi Germany to defeat them!"

"but what about the Belgians..." again, eh?

Nodin · 23-10-2013 11:12pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I think you mean since the time of Mac Murchada?

And most of the empire was about trade, but in hindsight, it was bad.

What's Gerry's favourite phrase, I don't condone it or condemn it.

Trade, was it? Well that's one way of putting it. "Robbery" is the accepted term though.

Funny enough Fred, after fighting the Nazis, there wasn't a light that went on in peoples heads that preceded thoughts like "Hang on, you know the way the Nazis wanted to lord it over the Poles & The Russians....and ye know the way we're here lording it over the Africans..".

TheHighest92 · 23-10-2013 11:24pm

No, I think it's all for front, if you feel the need to pay your respects then go to a memorial and if you feel the need to give money to the army then post them a cheque. I have several ancestors who died in WW1 but I don't feel any need to wear a poppy

MJ23 · 23-10-2013 11:26pm

No.

Iwasfrozen · 23-10-2013 11:28pm

Nodin wrote: »

"but what about the Belgians..." again, eh?

I'm just trying to find the logic of an anti-imperialist seeking help from Nazi Germany. I mean those guys weren't exactly subtle.

Nodin · 23-10-2013 11:32pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I'm just trying to find the logic of an anti-imperialist seeking help from Nazi Germany. I mean those guys weren't exactly subtle.

Any port in a storm, My Enemys Enemy is My Friend. The Americans sought help against the British crown from the French, for jaysus sake. I'd imagine they'd have gone to the Russians as quick, given slightly different circumstances. Naïve in the extreme.

Iwasfrozen · 23-10-2013 11:44pm

Nodin wrote: »

Any port in a storm, My Enemys Enemy is My Friend. The Americans sought help against the British crown from the French, for jaysus sake. I'd imagine they'd have gone to the Russians as quick, given slightly different circumstances. Naïve in the extreme.

Ha so rather German dominance to British? Yeah help the German Imperialists with the explicit goal of enslaving Europe. That'll win our independence!

And you call me naive? I can't think of a more fitting description then naive hypocritical idiots for the pair of them.

Dyr · 23-10-2013 11:52pm

old hippy wrote: »

You really are a nasty piece of work, aren't you?

Still, least I'm not just a contrarian who only takes whatever position they feel is most diametrically opposed to that of the unenlightened masses

Nodin · 23-10-2013 11:53pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Ha so rather German dominance to British? Yeah help the German Imperialists with the explicit goal of enslaving Europe. That'll win our independence! .

People have gotten away with that kind of thing before. European history and indeed world history sees groups seeking aid from their occupiers enemy.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

And you call me naive? .

I don't recall doing so.

Dyr · 24-10-2013 12:01am

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Ha so rather German dominance to British? Yeah help the German Imperialists with the explicit goal of enslaving Europe. That'll win our independence!

And you call me naive? I can't think of a more fitting description then naive hypocritical idiots for the pair of them.

Fritz would have told you that they were saving europe from the Bolsheviks

Who Sean Russell also went looking for help from incidentally. :P

Will you wear a poppy 2013?

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