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Will you wear a poppy 2013?

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    #662
    moxin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,203 ✭✭✭moxin


    Funding the welfare(from poppy sales) of the Bloody Sunday killers is morally repugnant, despicable and stomach turning . Besides, the poppy is not an Irish tradition, its British and we're an Irish nation not a British one. This ain't boards.co.uk.


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    #663
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    moxin wrote: »
    Funding the welfare(from poppy sales) of the Bloody Sunday killers is morally repugnant, despicable and stomach turning.

    I know this been mentioned every year on previous poppy threads, but all procedes from sales of the poppy (in the ROI) are kept within the ROI where the money is distributed among the families of ex Irish servicemen living, and the families of the deceased. With regards to the poppy not being an Irish tradition, nothing could be further from the truth, and if you think about it, Two hundred thousand Irish men went off to the 1st World War 1914-1918, with between thirty & fifty thousand Irish men mown down on the poppy fields, hence you can be sure that in the decades after 1918 there were many poppies sold in Ireland, indeed there were more poppies sold on the streets of Dublin than sold in Manchester & Glasgow combined in those years after the war! Admittedly in the last twenty years or so you don't see as many poppies on the streets as you used to, but they are still sold, and the procedes go to a very good cause.
    moxin wrote: »
    Besides, the poppy is not an Irish tradition, its British and we're an Irish nation not a British one. This ain't boards.co.uk.

    The tradition of wearing the poppy here in Ireland is just as long as the same tradition in Britain.


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    #664
    moxin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,203 ✭✭✭moxin


    Well, an "Irishman" who served in the BA in NI does not deserve to be funded from poppy sales for his welfare in old age. His army murdered many mothers and children in the 70s and 80s, that ain't a good cause as you put it.

    As you quote WW1 and perhaps WWII, they served the UK, not Ireland so nothing to do with us. Let the UK look after their own soldiers, we should only look after Irish armed forces as after all we are an independent state.


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    #665
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    moxin wrote: »
    As you quote WW1 and perhaps WWII, they served the UK, not Ireland so nothing to do with us. Let the UK look after their own soldiers, we should only look after Irish armed forces as after all we are an independent state.

    We were part of the UK during the Great War, so it seems reasonable that so many Irish men would join up to fight on the continent. With regards to fighting Hitler & the Nazis, well you may say that it was nothing to do with us, but I can only presume that those brave Irish men who fought the Nazi's along with half the planet, recognised the bigger picture. So hats off to them, and a poppy on the lapel for me in about three weeks time.


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    #666
    moxin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,203 ✭✭✭moxin


    LordSutch wrote: »
    We were part of the UK during the Great War, so it seems reasonable that so many Irish men would join up to fight on the continent. With regards to fighting Hitler & the Nazis, well you may say that it was nothing to do with us, but I can only presume that those brave Irish men who fought the Nazi's along with half the planet, recognised the bigger picture. So hats off to them, and a poppy on the lapel for me in about three weeks time.

    Thats a lovely British tradition, don't we have our own remembrance to remember them for?

    And by the way, why should Irish people as part of an independent state be commemorating BA soldiers who murdered women and kids in NI?


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    #667
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    LordSutch wrote: »
    I know this been mentioned every year on previous poppy threads, but all procedes from sales of the poppy (in the ROI) are kept within the ROI .............


    It's not a simple matter of what's on a persons passport.
    LordSutch wrote: »
    We were part of the UK during the Great War, so it seems reasonable that so many Irish men would join up to fight on the continent. With regards to fighting Hitler & the Nazis, well you may say that it was nothing to do with us, but I can only presume that those brave Irish men who fought the Nazi's
    .............
    ....its not confined to members who fought in WWII however.


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    #668
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    moxin wrote: »
    Thats a lovely British tradition, don't we have our own remembrance to remember them for?

    And by the way, why should Irish people as part of an independent state be commemorating BA soldiers who murdered women and kids in NI?

    I have deliberately focused on the Irish poppy appeal (ROI). Some of us keep the tradition alive here, many don't. Its a personal choice, but with several family connections from both the Great War & WWII I will always make a contribution to the Irish poppy appeal, and I will wear my poppy.

    Good night.


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    #669
    The man in red and black
    Registered Users Posts: 666 ✭✭✭The man in red and black


    The contradictions here are hilarious.

    The idea that Irish soldiers fought in the British army for "the greater good of the world" vs fighting to earn a living to support their families in desperate times.

    The idea that soldiers in the British Army are in no way responsible for human rights abuses they commit as they are there as part of an army supposedly doing the right thing vs the vast majority of people strongly believing that German soldiers should never be allowed the defence of only following orders. (An extreme example I know but I'm just playing devils advocate/stirring :P )

    The notion that Britain still has a right to invade and rule other countries.

    The phrase "let bygones be bygones" or "it's in the past" when trying to argue for symbols commemorating the past!

    The idea that Irish people should feel obliged to wear a British commemorative poppy. Imagine if Irish people expected the British to wear a symbol commemorating the Irish Army??

    I think there is no problem in British people wearing them but don't think anyone in Ireland should feel they have to wear one even if they live in Britain. I live in Canada now. As part of the Commonwealth poppies are everywhere here and people are very surprised when I won't buy one. I shouldn't have to explain myself every time.


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    #670
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    moxin wrote: »
    Thats a lovely British tradition, don't we have our own remembrance to remember them for?

    And by the way, why should Irish people as part of an independent state be commemorating BA soldiers who murdered women and kids in NI?

    Why should Irish people buy an Easter lily when it helps to fund and commemorate terrorists who murdered women and kids?


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    #671
    moxin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,203 ✭✭✭moxin


    LordSutch wrote: »
    I have deliberately focused on the Irish poppy appeal (ROI). Some of us keep the tradition alive here, many don't. Its a personal choice, but with several family connections from both the Great War & WWII I will always make a contribution to the Irish poppy appeal, and I will wear my poppy.

    Good night.

    You should look at the poppy appeal and reform it then to confine it to that period in history. Its not just for WWI and WWII veterans, its for all who served in the British Armed Forces till this day in 2013.
    That my friend has nothing to do with Ireland as you know we are an independent state with our own armed forces. British soldiers fallen in some war in 2013 has nothing to do with us.


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    #672
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Why should Irish people buy an Easter lily when it helps to fund and commemorate terrorists who murdered women and kids?


    .....because they were fighting against a sectarian statelet, as opposed to supporting colonial rule over some luckless bunch thousands of miles away?


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    #673
    moxin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,203 ✭✭✭moxin


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Why should Irish people buy an Easter lily when it helps to fund and commemorate terrorists who murdered women and kids?

    They don't wear one? There was a discussion here on who has spotted those wearing an Easter Lilly, hardly anyone spotted people wearing one. I have not.

    Why are you focussing on Lillys and not Poppys? Wear a white poppy to show peace in your heart.


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    #674
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    moxin wrote: »
    They don't wear one? There was a discussion here on who has spotted those wearing an Easter Lilly, hardly anyone spotted people wearing one. I have not.

    Why are you focussing on Lillys and not Poppys? Wear a white poppy to show peace in your heart.

    I can't understand why some people think it's ok to support terrorists who blatantly targeted women and children then get on their moral high horse when I say I will wear a poppy to remember my grandparents who fought in both world wars and my friends who I served in the BA with who are no longer with us.


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    #675
    moxin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,203 ✭✭✭moxin


    bumper234 wrote: »
    I can't understand why some people think it's ok to support terrorists who blatantly targeted women and children then get on their moral high horse when I say I will wear a poppy to remember my grandparents who fought in both world wars and my friends who I served in the BA with who are no longer with us.

    Who is supporting terrorists?


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    #676
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Wearing a poppy:

    2.jpg


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    #677
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    bumper234 wrote: »
    I can't understand why some people think it's ok to support terrorists who blatantly targeted women and children then get on their moral high horse when I say I will wear a poppy to remember my grandparents who fought in both world wars and my friends who I served in the BA with who are no longer with us.


    ....because it covers a lot more than the two world wars. You want to be associated with that, its your problem.


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    #678
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Wearing a poppy:

    2.jpg


    They've actually started already - saw them on the Beeb earlier.


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    #679
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    I wonder how the RBL feel about poppies being laid at monuments and graves of deceased loyalist murder gang members.


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    #680
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Nodin wrote: »
    They've actually started already - saw them on the Beeb earlier.

    In fairness, I love (might be the wrong word) the thought of the sacrifices people made in WWI and WWII, but I also love the thought of the sacrifices made by people in the Bogside in Derry when their peaceful protest was met with gunfire by the British Army ( I can already sense the oncoming "IRA" accusation in response to this).

    To summarise, I have no problem with what the poppy represents, but at the same time I have no issues with Sinn Fein. But I won't be wearing the poppy (I live in the UK) because I've always associated it with Britishness, not Irishness. I think it's comparable to calling the 26th of December Boxing Day or St Stephen's Day. There's nothing wrong with calling it Boxing Day, but why would you go the trouble to be different unless you maybe deep down feel ashamed to conform with the rest of your country......


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    #681
    delthedriver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭delthedriver


    Just like previous years , I am wearing the Poppy in 2013.:)

    What is the problem?


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    #682
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Deleted User wrote: »
    But I won't be wearing the poppy (I live in the UK) because I've always associated it with Britishness, not Irishness. I think it's comparable to calling the 26th of December Boxing Day or St Stephen's Day. There's nothing wrong with calling it Boxing Day, but why would you go the trouble to be different unless you maybe deep down feel ashamed to conform with the rest of your country......

    Many people in the UK don't wear the poppy, indeed one or two of my best friends in England make a point of not wearing one because of all the "media driven jingoism" which sadly is currently at play. Other people wear the beautifully designed white poppy to signify peace. At this stage in history I think there might even be a different reason why somebody like myself in South Dublin would wear a poppy, as opposed to somebody in Belfast, Glasgow, Cardiff or London, who actually have family mambers in ongoing campaigns abroad.

    I, and most of the congragation in my Church would wear one to commemorate family members who died in both World Wars, a fact which is testified to by the Vicar who reads out the names of the parish fallen on Rembrance Sunday, preceded by a buglar who plays the last post. Its all very sombre and traditional as we bow our heads and think of the grave stones outside with family names inscribed on them, not forgetting the 50.000 Irish men who never came back. This is where my head is when I buy my poppy every year.

    I should of course mention the current Irish regiments in the BA who are currently in service, and their families back in Ireland (North & South) who have every right to wear a poppy for their loved ones who have died on the battlefield in recent years.


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    #683
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    The French and the Belgians, a lot worse affected than the Irish by the insane slaughter of the Great War, don't wear poppies. Why should any Irish person wear the badge the British Legion sells to provide (http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/get-involved)
    much needed support for the [British] Armed Forces and their families


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    #684
    Hedgemeister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 245 ✭✭Hedgemeister


    How many Irish folks support the Fuschia Appeal or wear the symbol to show support for Irish men & women who served this country in the past, who died in Service, those who still serve at home, or in over 20 countries worldwide?
    I've yet to see anyone wearing the Fuschia, but I know many people who wear the Poppy.
    The Fuschia Appeal is usually held in July.

    info@oneconnect.ie


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    #685
    COYW
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭COYW


    delthedriver wrote: »
    Just like previous years , I am wearing the Poppy in 2013.:)

    What is the problem?

    Oh, some republicans are getting their knickers in a twist over people wearing them. They have no respect for British soldiers, even though we wouldn't be living in the free society we live in today but for those soldiers, and therefore they don't want to allow anyone else to display respect for them.

    Yet another example of the "shared society" and "equality" they go on about.


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    #686
    Santa Cruz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    Hedgemeister wrote: »
    How many Irish folks support the Fuschia Appeal or wear the symbol to show support for Irish men & women who served this country in the past, who died in Service, those who still serve at home, or in over 20 countries worldwide?
    I've yet to see anyone wearing the Fuschia, but I know many people who wear the Poppy.
    The Fuschia Appeal is usually held in July.

    info@oneconnect.ie


    Never heard of it. Probably gets as much publicity as our National Day of Commemoration


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    #687
    Hedgemeister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 245 ✭✭Hedgemeister


    This Appeal was launched about two years ago. Don't know how much support it gets, but it's not a whole lot from what I hear.


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    #688
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    The French and the Belgians, a lot worse affected than the Irish by the insane slaughter of the Great War, don't wear poppies. Why should any Irish person wear the badge the British Legion sells to provide (http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/get-involved)

    So do you think that money made from poppy sales in Ireland goes to the Royal British Legion?


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    #689
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    COYW wrote: »
    Oh, some republicans are getting their knickers in a twist over people wearing them. They have no respect for British soldiers, even though we wouldn't be living in the free society we live in today but for those soldiers, and therefore they don't want to allow anyone else to display respect for them.

    Yet another example of the "shared society" and "equality" they go on about.

    As I have posted earlier I don't see the majority of our government ministers or our president wearing the poppy or anyone on our national media, Are they showing disrespect to the British soldiers for allowing us to live in a free society ?

    The problem for Ireland is that remembering its war dead also brings memories of those who died because of British army policies in the not so forgotten past. There is no getting away from this fact of history. No one’s proud of it, but no one can wish it away. Anyway personally I wouldn't were one, but it doesn't bother me if people do.







    Also I thought lord sutch post above was, for the most part one of his best.


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    #690
    COYW
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭COYW


    realies wrote: »
    As I have posted earlier I don't see the majority of our government ministers or our president wearing the poppy or anyone on our national media,Are they showing disrespect to the British soldiers for allowing us to live in a free society,

    No, they chose not to wear one. It is a free choice. They are not having a go at people who chose to wear one, unlike some posters here.


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    #691
    Palmach
    Registered Users Posts: 978 ✭✭✭Palmach


    COYW wrote: »
    No, they chose not to wear one. It is a free choice. They are not having a go at people who chose to wear one, unlike some posters here.

    People have the freedom to wear what they like but others also have the freedom to judge them for wearing such symbols.


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