Will you wear a poppy 2013?

moxin

Hilly Bill wrote: »

How exactly?

By buying a poppy, you are giving money towards soldiers of a foreign army who are loyalists, not just your average Englishman.

bumper234

moxin wrote: »

By buying a poppy, you are giving money towards soldiers of a foreign army who are loyalists, not just your average Englishman.

But soldiers are just average Englishmen. Thats like claiming every Irish soldier is a republican and therefore supports the IRA

bumper234

Jimoslimos wrote: »

So career soldiers then? Trying to think of another word for that....

Mercenaries perhaps?

So if an Irish person joins the British army they are mercenaries? Or does this point of view of yours relate to ALL career soldiers?

moxin

bumper234 wrote: »

But soldiers are just average Englishmen. Thats like claiming every Irish soldier is a republican and therefore supports the IRA

If that was true and going by your scenario, then you would have no problem contributing to Irish Army vets even those who murdered British civilians?

Nodin

COYW wrote: »

Oh, some republicans are getting their knickers in a twist over people wearing them. They have no respect for British soldiers, even though we wouldn't be living in the free society we live in today but for those soldiers, and therefore they don't want to allow anyone else to display respect for them.

Yet another example of the "shared society" and "equality" they go on about.

Earlier I stated

"Why would you respect somebody who fought in a conflict whose purpose was to subjugate a native people and have them ruled by a racist colonial regime?"

to which you replied

"I am not aware of such a conflict which involved British troops."
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=87157724&postcount=224
Have you done any reading on the matter since?

bumper234

moxin wrote: »

If that was true and going by your scenario, then you would have no problem contributing to Irish Army vets even those who murdered British civilians?

I have worked in Ireland most of my life, I have paid most of my taxes here, my taxes helped to pay for "accommodation" of IRA terrorists who murdered British civilians so technically your scenario has already happened.

moxin

bumper234 wrote: »

I have worked in Ireland most of my life, I have paid most of my taxes here, my taxes helped to pay for "accommodation" of IRA terrorists who murdered British civilians so technically your scenario has already happened.

You were not asked that.

Answer the question, you would have no problem contributing to Irish Army vets even those who murdered British civilians?

Jimoslimos

bumper234 wrote: »

So if an Irish person joins the British army they are mercenaries? Or does this point of view of yours relate to ALL career soldiers?

People joining a foreign army for monetary gain would fit the description of a mercenary. Same applies if they were to apply to the French Foreign Legion or the US military.

I don't have much of a problem with people doing this, since some of the same lack of opportunities have led myself to also seek work abroad. What I do have a problem is the constant portrayal of these economic migrants/adrenaline junkies (delete as appropiate) as "heroes" and the expectation that they are somewhat worthy of a charitable retirement fund in their honour.

bumper234

moxin wrote: »

You were not asked that.

Answer the question, you would have no problem contributing to Irish Army vets even those who murdered British civilians?

Of course I wouldn't but then no one would force me to buy such a thing the same way no one is forcing anyone to buy or wear a poppy!

bumper234

Jimoslimos wrote: »

People joining a foreign army for monetary gain would fit the description of a mercenary. Same applies if they were to apply to the French Foreign Legion or the US military.

I don't have much of a problem with people doing this, since some of the same lack of opportunities have led myself to also seek work abroad. What I do have a problem is the constant portrayal of these economic migrants/adrenaline junkies (delete as appropiate) as "heroes" and the expectation that they are somewhat worthy of a charitable retirement fund in their honour.

An Irish person goes to Australia for a year, gets drunk, falls over and is paralyzed from the neck down. Should I as a taxpayer and citizen have to pay for this persons medical bills and cost of flying them home?

Piliger

I couldn't give a crap about the few pathetic republican stragglers who carry their hatred of all things british around like a baby's blankie.
I wear a poppy for all of those killed. I couldn't give a monkeys about their motives or what a few bad apples may have done at some time in the past, any more than the war crimes committed by Michael Collins.

Santa Cruz

COYW wrote: »

Oh, some republicans are getting their knickers in a twist over people wearing them. They have no respect for British soldiers, even though we wouldn't be living in the free society we live in today but for those soldiers, and therefore they don't want to allow anyone else to display respect for them.

Yet another example of the "shared society" and "equality" they go on about.

The phrase should be "so called republicans"
That shower don't know the meaning of the word republicanism. If they did the wearing of a Poppy wouldn't be an issue.
Their campaign of sectarian violence showed that they have no concept of what a republican is .

Nodin

Piliger wrote: »

I couldn't give a crap about the few pathetic republican stragglers who carry their hatred of all things british around like a baby's blankie.
I wear a poppy for all of those killed. I couldn't give a monkeys about their motives or what a few bad apples may have done at some time in the past, any more than the war crimes committed by Michael Collins.

I think you'll find that maintaining an Empire wasn't thought up by a "few bad apples".

Femme_Fatale

COYW wrote: »

They have no respect for British soldiers, even though we wouldn't be living in the free society we live in today but for those soldiers

Could you explain this?

Hammar

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Could you explain this?

Same old bull**** "we would be speaking German if it weren't for those boys "zzzzzzzzzzz yawnfest as per usual,i would expect. I have no problem with anyone wearing the poppy in Ireland or anywhere else,but don't start claiming those guys were fighting for us,they weren't,they were fighting for Britain.
I also have no problem with anyone opposing the wearing of a poppy in Ireland due to the British Armed Forces murdereous history in Ireland. The so called "Poppy fascists" in this thread crying about these people who dislike the British military need to grow up.

Piliger

Santa Cruz wrote: »

The phrase should be "so called republicans"
That shower don't know the meaning of the word republicanism. If they did the wearing of a Poppy wouldn't be an issue.
Their campaign of sectarian violence showed that they have no concept of what a republican is .

Of course they don't. They are just consumed with hate. Nothing more nothing less. Hate and hypocrisy. Thankfully many many thousands of heroic Irish men went to war to keep the Nazis from taking over Europe and Ireland, and give us a chance to be free enough to have to listen to this sad drivel.

clairefontaine

Could you not come up with your own symbol like a shamrock or a Celtic cross or something to remember the Irish men who died in the wars?

Nodin

Piliger wrote: »

Of course they don't. They are just consumed with hate. Nothing more nothing less. Hate and hypocrisy. Thankfully many many thousands of heroic Irish men went to war to keep the Nazis from taking over Europe and Ireland, and give us a chance to be free enough to have to listen to this sad drivel.

....but the poppy is about far more than the two world wars, and the funds go to veterans of the BA, not a specific conflict.

Qualitymark

Interesting point about whether Irish people who join the British army are mercenaries.
Would English people who join the Irish army be considered mercenaries?

Hammar

Piliger wrote: »

Of course they don't. They are just consumed with hate. Nothing more nothing less. Hate and hypocrisy. Thankfully many many thousands of heroic Irish men went to war to keep the Nazis from taking over Europe and Ireland, and give us a chance to be free enough to have to listen to this sad drivel.

Yes and fair play to those who fought the Nazis,The whole Remembrance day /Poppy deal is not just consigned to WWI and WWII however and also remembers those who have served in Ireland and been involved in the murder and maiming of Irish men,women and children within the last 3/4 decades. Its not only the Provos that should have a problem with that, every right-thinking Irish man and woman should despise those who murdered their fellow citizens.

clairefontaine

How about a GREEN poppy?

I think that would work nicely.

Hammar

clairefontaine wrote: »

How about a GREEN poppy?

I think that would work nicely.

Ireland should have a distinct ceremony/remembrance for those brave souls who fought the evils of fascism, seperate from the commonwealth countries with our own distinct symbols. Nobody would have a problem with that.

RossyG

WesternZulu wrote: »

Dara O'Brien got in a lot of trouble for not wearing one on TV if I remember correctly.

O'Briain talked about poppies in a Guardian readers Q&A:

Someone calling themselves sean7889 asked;

You wear a poppy on screen all the time, have you ever worn an easter lily on British television?

Dara replied:

"Actually I've only wore the poppy once, but well done on escalating that one episode of "the Apprentice". In fact I've been on the telly twice in the last week without a poppy, once because of a pre-recorded show, and the other time because we all just forgot until the show was in train. Number of complaints about this: zero.
When I did wear the poppy last year, I made a point of bringing it up on a few Irish chat shows to guage where people stood and we had quite an interesting debate. The majority of Irish now seem seemed to have no problem with it.
My own view: I think it is a profound mark of respect for the War Dead, but having grown up abroad I feel it is your tribute and respectfully step aside. I suppose it might be like any of us wearing the Stars and Stripes if we lived in America. And yes, I know, that 50,000 Irish died in WW1.
I also think that a symbol as profound shouldn't be worn just because a wardrobe lady ran over to you in a panic before "this Morning" or "The One Show".
Trust me, any stance you take will lead to criticism."

bumper234

Hammar wrote: »

Yes and fair play to those who fought the Nazis,The whole Remembrance day /Poppy deal is not just consigned to WWI and WWII however and also remembers those who have served in Ireland and been involved in the murder and maiming of Irish men,women and children within the last 3/4 decades. Its not only the Provos that should have a problem with that, every right-thinking Irish man and woman should despise those who murdered their fellow citizen's.

Does this include those brave IRA volunteers who murdered their fellow citizens?

Hammar

bumper234 wrote: »

Does this include those brave IRA volunteers who murdered their fellow citizens?

Absolutely. Not all of us who may have certain misgivings over it are Provo terror apologists, you know.

bumper234

Hammar wrote: »

Absolutely.

So why do so many wear the Easter lily?

padd b1975

RossyG wrote: »

O'Briain talked about poppies in a Guardian readers Q&A:

Someone calling themselves sean7889 asked;

You wear a poppy on screen all the time, have you ever worn an easter lily on British television?

Dara replied:

"Actually I've only wore the poppy once, but well done on escalating that one episode of "the Apprentice". In fact I've been on the telly twice in the last week without a poppy, once because of a pre-recorded show, and the other time because we all just forgot until the show was in train. Number of complaints about this: zero.
When I did wear the poppy last year, I made a point of bringing it up on a few Irish chat shows to guage where people stood and we had quite an interesting debate. The majority of Irish now seem seemed to have no problem with it.
My own view: I think it is a profound mark of respect for the War Dead, but having grown up abroad I feel it is your tribute and respectfully step aside. I suppose it might be like any of us wearing the Stars and Stripes if we lived in America. And yes, I know, that 50,000 Irish died in WW1.
I also think that a symbol as profound shouldn't be worn just because a wardrobe lady ran over to you in a panic before "this Morning" or "The One Show".
Trust me, any stance you take will lead to criticism."

Well said that man!

Only had to wait 748 posts for some common sense on this thread, and it came from an outside source.

Gotta love AH.

Brian Shanahan

old hippy wrote: »

It's that time of year again where mass debates ensue over paper flowers, pensioners, prisoners of war, the struggle, lillies et al. I noticed the first advert this morning at the bus stop today.

Will you be sporting one?

When it stops being a symbol of imperialism and jingoism I may decide to wear one.

But the increasing militarisation of events such as FA cup matches in the UK and everything in the US tells me I shouldn't be holding my breath.

clairefontaine

Hammar wrote: »

Ireland should have a distinct ceremony/remembrance for those brave souls who fought the evils of fascism, seperate from the commonwealth countries with our own distinct symbols. Nobody would have a problem with that.

Instead of arguing about it, why not make up your own symbol and ceremony?

Jimmy Garlic

Hammar wrote: »

Yes and fair play to those who fought the Nazis,The whole Remembrance day /Poppy deal is not just consigned to WWI and WWII however and also remembers those who have served in Ireland and been involved in the murder and maiming of Irish men,women and children within the last 3/4 decades. Its not only the Provos that should have a problem with that, every right-thinking Irish man and woman should despise those who murdered their fellow citizens.

Do you think that the provos just emerged from thin air one day and decided to start killing people for the craic? Often those with the most vociferous hatred for the PIRA conveniently forget what prompted their existence in the first place. Neglect to point out that the British state was up to its eyeballs arming and funding loyalists and fail to acknowledge that state sanctioned organisations like the RUC and UDR were little more than terrorists themselves . Your moral high ground is built on quicksand.