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Will you wear a poppy 2013?

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    #752
    ZeitgeistGlee
    Registered Users Posts: 1,566 ✭✭✭ZeitgeistGlee


    Would I wear one? No.

    Would I have any specific objection to someone wearing one provided they were properly aware of what it stands for and who/where the money goes? No.


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    #753
    Femme_Fatale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    Jimmy Garlic wrote: »
    Do you think that the provos just emerged from thin air one day and decided to start killing people for the craic? Often those with the most vociferous hatred for the PIRA conveniently forget what prompted their existence in the first place. Neglect to point out that the British state was up to its eyeballs arming and funding loyalists and fail to acknowledge that state sanctioned organisations like the RUC and UDR were little more than terrorists themselves
    Yes, but it doesn't justify their campaign of violence. It explains it to some extent - and I agree, it's maddening the way Irish people just forget about it - but it doesn't excuse it. You're being harsh on Hammar too - I don't think they're being a revisionist/nationalist basher at all on this thread.


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    #754
    Hammar
    Registered Users Posts: 995 ✭✭✭Hammar


    bumper234 wrote: »
    So why do so many wear the Easter lily?

    Very few wear them. I'm not sure where it is you got your information.


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    #755
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    COYW wrote: »
    Oh, some republicans are getting their knickers in a twist over people wearing them. They have no respect for British soldiers, even though we wouldn't be living in the free society we live in today but for those soldiers, and therefore they don't want to allow anyone else to display respect for them.

    Yet another example of the "shared society" and "equality" they go on about.

    Ah look another one, harping on about freedom

    We're living in a free society because republicans shot rather a lot of british soliders.

    Can't think of any freedoms british soldiers won me though


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    #756
    COYW
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭COYW


    Santa Cruz wrote: »
    The phrase should be "so called republicans"
    That shower don't know the meaning of the word republicanism. If they did the wearing of a Poppy wouldn't be an issue.
    Their campaign of sectarian violence showed that they have no concept of what a republican is .

    Fair point. It was unfair of me to lump all republicans in as one. Many republicans are decent law abiding people who are disgusted by the actions of a few in their name.
    Femme_Fatale wrote: »
    Could you explain this?

    Yes, members of my family fought in the world wars and I believe that we would not be living in the democratic society we live in today but for them. I understand that some people cannot find it in the hearts to acknowledge this but I am forever grateful for what they did.


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    #757
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    COYW wrote: »
    Fair point. It was unfair of me to lump all republicans in as one. Many republicans are decent law abiding people who are disgusted by the actions of a few in their name.



    Yes, members of my family fought in the world wars and I believe that we would not be living in the democratic society we live in today but for them. I understand that some people cannot find it in the hearts to acknowledge this but I am forever grateful for what they did.


    If you'd be as good as to get back to me....
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=87215789&postcount=727


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    #758
    Hammar
    Registered Users Posts: 995 ✭✭✭Hammar


    Jimmy Garlic wrote: »
    Do you think that the provos just emerged from thin air one day and decided to start killing people for the craic? Often those with the most vociferous hatred for the PIRA conveniently forget what prompted their existence in the first place. Neglect to point out that the British state was up to its eyeballs arming and funding loyalists and fail to acknowledge that state sanctioned organisations like the RUC and UDR were little more than terrorists themselves . Your moral high ground is built on quicksand.

    I'm not bashing Nationalists or Republicans. The PIRA murdered a large amount of innocent irish people,so while you can say that they were had a legitimate right to fight and that is all well and good,they did not however have a legitimate right to murder innocent men,women and children. Anyone who supported the Provos campaign have no standing when engaged in mud-slinging with supporters of the British Armed Forces over murder,just as anyone who supported the British Military/RUC have no ground to stand on when attacking the PIRA and co,because they were all involved in similar incidents.
    By the way,i'm well versed in what the RUC/UDR/BA were up to,(Glennane gang etc)up to and including the mass murder of Irish men women and children so,no i don't hold them on a higher morale ground as the Provos.
    They have the same standing as far as i'm concerned.


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    #759
    ZeitgeistGlee
    Registered Users Posts: 1,566 ✭✭✭ZeitgeistGlee


    COYW wrote: »
    Oh, some republicans are getting their knickers in a twist over people wearing them. They have no respect for British soldiers, even though we wouldn't be living in the free society we live in today but for those soldiers, and therefore they don't want to allow anyone else to display respect for them.

    Yet another example of the "shared society" and "equality" they go on about.

    Mind elaborating on that one? Who exactly does "we" refer to?


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    #760
    Beefy78
    Registered Users Posts: 8,163 ✭✭✭Beefy78


    RossyG wrote: »
    Dara replied:

    "I also think that a symbol as profound shouldn't be worn just because a wardrobe lady ran over to you in a panic before "this Morning" or "The One Show".

    Dara is completely right there.


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    #761
    Mahogany Gaspipe
    Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭Mahogany Gaspipe


    Bambi wrote: »
    Ah look another one, harping on about freedom

    We're living in a free society because republicans shot rather a lot of british soliders.

    Can't think of any freedoms british soldiers won me though

    Rather.


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    #762
    Hammar
    Registered Users Posts: 995 ✭✭✭Hammar


    clairefontaine wrote: »
    Instead of arguing about it, why not make up your own symbol and ceremony?

    I don't care either way.
    It's the poppy supporters on this thread whom are crying about some Irish men and women holding negative views of the poppy and the British Armed Forces.
    I was just offering an alternative suggestion.


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    #763
    Jimmy Garlic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,349 ✭✭✭Jimmy Garlic


    Femme_Fatale wrote: »
    Yes, but it doesn't justify their campaign of violence. It explains it to some extent - and I agree, it's maddening the way Irish people just forget about it - but it doesn't excuse it. You're being harsh on Hammar too - I don't think they're being a revisionist/nationalist basher at all on this thread.

    It would be nice to see blame spread out evenly and fairly. The IRA was was not the root of all evil, it is probably safe to say that the emergence of the provos was a reaction to what was in essence an apartheid system of repression. Nobody comes out of situations like the Troubles smelling like roses.


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    #764
    Femme_Fatale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    Jimmy Garlic wrote: »
    It would be nice to see blame spread out evenly and fairly.
    Agreed. The whataboutery is nauseating. E.g. somebody posts about Bloody Sunday and guaranteed: someone comes along and says "Well what about Jean McConville?" Yes, it was horrific - so start a thread about it, seeing as a Bloody Sunday thread is not about her.


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    #765
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    When did people get the notion that an easter lilly had anything to do with the provos?

    Predates them by quite some time


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    #766
    delthedriver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭delthedriver


    Femme_Fatale wrote: »
    Agreed. The whataboutery is nauseating. E.g. somebody posts about Bloody Sunday and guaranteed: someone comes along and says "Well what about Jean McConville?" Yes, it was horrific - so start a thread about it, seeing as a Bloody Sunday thread is not about her.

    Yes, and this thread is not about Bloody Sunday


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    #767
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Hammar wrote: »
    Very few wear them. I'm not sure where it is you got your information.

    Very few wear the poppy in Ireland and I think I could safely say I see more lillies per year than poppies.


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    #768
    delthedriver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭delthedriver


    I was looking at the Formula 1 on BBC a short while ago.

    Eddie Jordan was wearing a poppy. Eddie is a very proud Irishman and fair play to him for wearing the poppy.

    No doubt the Shinners will choke on their afternoon tea.


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    #769
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Bambi wrote: »
    When did people get the notion that an easter lilly had anything to do with the provos?

    Predates them by quite some time

    And the poppy pre dates bloody Sunday, RUC, Loyalist murder squads etc.


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    #770
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    COYW wrote:

    Still the same response, Nodin. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that
    one.

    Hmmmmmm.....I asked.

    "Why would you respect somebody who fought in a conflict whose purpose was to subjugate a native people and have them ruled by a racist colonial regime?

    Your response was

    I am not aware of such a conflict which involved British troops

    I'd refer you to the colonial regimes in Britains African, Asian and Middle eastern colonies. To stick to Africa for a moment that would include Egypt, Libya, Nigeria, Zimbabwe (then Rhodesia), Sierra Leone, Zanzibar, Kenya amongst others. These colonies were organised along racist lines, and resistance to them was suppressed in a brutal fashion. To use Kenya as an example.....

    "Many tens of thousands were detained and tortured in the camps. I won't spare you the details: we have been sparing ourselves the details for far too long. Large numbers of men were castrated with pliers. Others were raped, sometimes with the use of knives, broken bottles, rifle barrels and scorpions. Women had similar instruments forced into their vaginas. The guards and officials sliced off ears and fingers, gouged out eyes, mutilated women's breasts with pliers, poured paraffin over people and set them alight. Untold thousands died."
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/oct/08/empire-torture-kenya-catastrophe-Europe

    We'll skip the question of how you've never heard of the 'British Empire' for the moment.

    Now - you said you weren't aware of such conflicts, I've given you a (very brief) set of examples. Would you care to comment on this revelation?


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    #771
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    bumper234 wrote: »
    And the poppy pre dates bloody Sunday, RUC, Loyalist murder squads etc.


    Point being that the poppy commemorates a specific event.
    the ould poppy is all about celebrating the british armys various adventures in atrocity


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    #772
    LOSTfan57
    Registered Users Posts: 682 ✭✭✭LOSTfan57


    This is bloody hilarious...keep it up I'm bored and cant stop loling


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    #773
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Anyone critical of British/Unionist/Loyalist violence is a 'shinner', 'shinner-bot' or 'armchair Republican'.

    News for y'all. Most people despise British/Unionist/Loyalist violence against our people.


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    #774
    LOSTfan57
    Registered Users Posts: 682 ✭✭✭LOSTfan57


    Carlos Roca wrote: »
    Anyone critical of British/Unionist/Loyalist violence is a 'shinner', 'shinner-bot' or 'armchair Republican'.

    News for y'all. Most people despise British/Unionist/Loyalist violence against our people.

    Its like in the playground well he picked on me first, no he did, no he did, no he did etc........its a farcical "debate"


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    #775
    LOSTfan57
    Registered Users Posts: 682 ✭✭✭LOSTfan57


    No Irish Person should wear one IMO


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    #776
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    LOSTfan57 wrote: »
    Its like in the playground well he picked on me first, no he did, no he did, no he did etc........its a farcical "debate"

    History has shown that the Troubles happened because civil rights seeking people were eventually murdered for it by the state despite what some reality deniers will say.


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    #777
    LOSTfan57
    Registered Users Posts: 682 ✭✭✭LOSTfan57


    Carlos Roca wrote: »
    History has shown that the Troubles happened because civil rights seeking people were eventually murdered for it by the state despite what some reality deniers will say.

    I dont think reality and facts are allowed in this debate....some people flatly refuse to accept them.....thats the hilarity


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    #778
    delthedriver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭delthedriver


    LOSTfan57 wrote: »
    No Irish Person should wear one IMO

    Interesting opinion, alternatively, why not let each individual decide?:)


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    #779
    Jimmy Garlic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,349 ✭✭✭Jimmy Garlic


    delthedriver wrote: »
    I was looking at the Formula 1 on BBC a short while ago.

    Eddie Jordan was wearing a poppy. Eddie is a very proud Irishman and fair play to him for wearing the poppy.

    No doubt the Shinners will choke on their afternoon tea.

    From the BBC (2009)-
    Organisations like the BBC usually choose a day for presenters to start wearing one. This year it was from 6am on 24 October.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8333733.stm

    Did he have a choice? By the looks of things poppy wearing is mandatory if you want to stay on the BBC payroll.


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    #780
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Bambi wrote: »
    Point being that the poppy commemorates a specific event.
    the ould poppy is all about celebrating the british armys various adventures in atrocity

    Which "specific event" does the poppy commemorate?

    Also for what it's worth I have yet to be at a commemorative event Involving wreaths and poppies where people have "celebrated".


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    #781
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    LOSTfan57 wrote: »
    No Irish Person should wear one IMO

    Why?


This discussion has been closed.
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