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Will you wear a poppy 2013?

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    #842
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    Jimoslimos wrote: »
    I don't understand this. All you're doing is subsidising the British government and the MoD.

    Every penny collected here in the republic goes towards ex-servicemen and women in this country. The British army don't get a penny.


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    #843
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    katydid wrote: »
    Every penny collected here in the republic goes towards ex-servicemen and women in this country. The British army don't get a penny.



    ....and why would that make things all right?


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    #844
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    Skylinehead wrote: »
    And also in illegitimate conflicts.


    Nope


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    #845
    Buzz84
    Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭Buzz84


    All this poppy and help the heroes stuff does my nut.

    The best thing they could do to help their heroes is stop sending them into pointless wars.

    How anyone could wear a poppy to commemorate an army guilty of murder of thousands of innocents is beyond me and that's putting it lightly.

    Yes I feel sorry for those young men who by no choice of their own were sent of to their deaths in WW1 and 2 but the Poppy has turned into a propaganda tool for the war mongers.

    I have no sympathy for the idiots who go of to fight in pointless wars like Iraq or Afghanistan.


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    #846
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    bumper234 wrote: »
    I would not expect them to celebrate.

    When I wear a poppy it's not in celebration.

    November 11th is not a day of celebration.


    It's turned into a jingoistic bit of flag-waving.

    As regards the RBL poppy - the funds go to ex-service persons.


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    #847
    fianna saor
    Registered Users Posts: 166 ✭✭fianna saor


    definitely not!


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    #848
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    realies wrote: »
    The Easter Lily is a badge worn at Easter by Irish republicans as symbol of remembrance for Irish republican combatants who died during or were executed after the 1916 Easter Rising. Depending on the political affiliations of the bearer, it can also commemorate members of the pre-Treaty Irish Republican Army, the post-Treaty Irish Republican Army, and either the Provisional IRA or the Official IRA. It may also be used to commemorate members of the Irish National Liberation Army.

    Those men & women of 1916 who gave there lives are the real reason we have our freedom today,and IMO should be commentated by all people who live in this country.

    That's what it used to symbolise. But it was hijacked by the terrorists, and has lost its original meaning.


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    #849
    Buzz84
    Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭Buzz84


    katydid wrote: »
    You don't seem to realise that all money collected from poppies in Ireland goes to support ex service men and women in Ireland?

    And why would anyone want to support Irish men who went of to fight the Iraqis or Afghans?


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    #850
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    Nodin wrote: »
    ....and why would that make things all right?
    Um, because those old people deserve a bit of comfort in their old age...


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    #851
    Buzz84
    Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭Buzz84


    katydid wrote: »
    That's what it used to symbolise. But it was hijacked by the terrorists, and has lost its original meaning.

    Could you tell the difference between the PIRA and the lads who fought in 1916 neither had a mandate and in both conflicts civilians died.


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    #852
    SharpshooterTom
    Registered Users Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭SharpshooterTom


    Buzz84 wrote: »
    I have no sympathy for the idiots who go of to fight in pointless wars like Iraq or Afghanistan.

    Sadly a lot of people who out there are quite young, 16-18. Still only kids. Most of them would have been influenced by family members and would have done it because previous family members did it in previous wars and its was considered a family honor.

    So I do feel sorry them, some of them do it because they can't get a job, notabely in these terrible economic times.


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    #853
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    katydid wrote: »
    Um, because those old people deserve a bit of comfort in their old age...


    Why should somebody who kicked natives around the streets of Aden for the Empire "deserve a bit of comfort in their old age"?


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    #854
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    Buzz84 wrote: »
    And why would anyone want to support Irish men who went of to fight the Iraqis or Afghans?


    I don't think too many of them are aged veterans who need financial support in their old age.

    And there IS a difference between Iraq and Afghanistan - Iraq was an illegitimate action, Afghanistan was sanctioned by the UN.


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    #855
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    Buzz84 wrote: »
    Could you tell the difference between the PIRA and the lads who fought in 1916 neither had a mandate and in both conflicts civilians died.
    The "lads" of 1916 didn't deliberately go out and target civilians.


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    #856
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    Nodin wrote: »
    Why should somebody who kicked natives around the streets of Aden for the Empire "deserve a bit of comfort in their old age"?

    How do you know they did?


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    #857
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    katydid wrote: »
    Nope

    So Iraq was legitimate now? News to me.


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    #858
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    katydid wrote: »
    How do you know they did?


    ....well if there were in Aden, odds are they did. That's what the BA did - brutalised the natives and kept them in line. I don't see why being Irish gives them a get of jail free card.


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    #859
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    katydid wrote: »
    Not quite the same thing. The easter lily supports terrorism, the poppy commemorates those brave people who died not only in world wars, but in other legitimate conflicts.

    The above is a perfect example of the political baggage that goes with the Poppy unfortunately- though I have to say more so in Ireland than in actual Britain. These so-called "legitimate conflicts" include many very nasty colonial wars in which the BA really did indulge in terrorism.

    In actual Britain I dont have any problem with people wearing them; but all to often in Ireland people are doing so to make a political statement.


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    #860
    timthumbni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    ThomasFlynn wrote: »
    I respect that there are significant number of unionists who are linked with the armed forces, have families serving them etc. I have no problem with that.

    However I do believe there's a large number of people who do wear them to emphasise they are British and want to let the others know that. I mean I don't think its any great suprise that protestants in Northern Ireland probably have the highest rate for wearing them in the UK (that would be a guess, but I reckon its true).

    Now don't get me wrong, I live in Omagh, and I witness all the Ash Wednesday bollox here, every what, march? And do I believe there are high number here who wear it to show they are a "catholic" and proudly "Irish" and get one over the other side, even though half of them aren't even bloody religious.

    I stepped over the border once on Ash wednesday and saw a shocking decrease in marked heads when I left NI, guess the catholics in the south just don't care and haven't got this agenda to show the other side who they are. Micky mouse Northern Ireland tribalism at its finest.

    Fair enough but I don't agree. Most Unionists would have links with the armed forces. I genuinely though have never heard anyone say let's get a poppy on to show the other side. I know about the tribalism obviously but just don't put the poppy in with that. I would more lump rangers, celtic, gaa tops in N I with that to be honest.

    To be honest I've never really thought about people wearing ash on their heads as being provocative either. I have thought it was weird and silly (but I'm an atheist and would find some of the protestant never on a Sunday sects to be equally silly, wearing a hat to church, not cutting your hair short, a lot looking like the Westboro baptists etc, etc.


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    #861
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    katydid wrote: »
    The "lads" of 1916 didn't deliberately go out and target civilians.

    They went knowing civilians were going to end up dead because of their actions though.

    You could make an argument that in general the Provisionals at least after Billy McKee was stepped down were a lot more considerate of civilians than the women and the men of 1916.


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    #862
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Nodin wrote: »
    It's turned into a jingoistic bit of flag-waving.

    As regards the RBL poppy - the funds go to ex-service persons.

    Has this ever been disputed by me?


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    #863
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    bumper234 wrote: »
    They could be wearing it to remember the war dead from WW1 and 2.

    Or members of the IDF, who died serving their country. Remembrance celebrations include members and ex members of the IDF, the Navy etc.


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    #864
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Buzz84 wrote: »
    And why would anyone want to support Irish men who went of to fight the Iraqis or Afghans?

    What about the ones who went to fight the Nazi's?


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    #865
    moxin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,203 ✭✭✭moxin


    katydid wrote: »
    That's what it used to symbolise. But it was hijacked by the terrorists, and has lost its original meaning.

    And the poppy has been hijacked within Ireland by Unionism to show you are a Unionist supporter and loyal to you know who.

    In Britain itself, the poppy wearers don't care about the Unionists in NI just like they don't want to be associated with Orange marches. They wear it mainly for supporting Britain's wars. This disconnect is lost on Unionists.


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    #866
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    ThomasFlynn wrote: »
    Now don't get me wrong, I live in Omagh, and I witness all the Ash Wednesday bollox here, every what, march? And do I believe there are high number here who wear it to show they are a "catholic" and proudly "Irish" and get one over the other side, even though half of them aren't even bloody religious.
    .

    Very many Anglicans worldwide (and shock horror even a few in the north of Ireland) as well as Lutherans keep the Ash Wednesday costum- its neither particularly Irish or particularly Roman Catholic and has absolutely nothing to do with Armed Forces that were involved in a recent conflict in said area. You are drawing a totally false equivalence; the equivalent of the Poppy is the Easter Lily.


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    #867
    Mint Sauce
    Registered Users Posts: 29,293 ✭✭✭✭Mint Sauce


    I wear a Poppy when over in England (when for sale), not to celebrate The British army, or their invasion or occupation of different nations, but to mainly commemorate those died in two world wars, and in following wars. This does mean I support the invasion or occupation of middle eastern countries, but most of the brave servicemen and woman, did not choose to be sent there, but were sent by their commanders, or even government, they simply joined the Army as a career. In the two WWs, they were mainly enlisted, or were doing their National Service, they certainly did not choose to go.

    I would be reluctant to wear one here, or even traveling through the North, due to the image here that it portrays, for the same reason I would be reluctant to wear the Easter Lilly, despite its origins commemorating those who died for this country in 1916.


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    #868
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Nodin wrote: »
    ....well if there were in Aden, odds are they did. That's what the BA did - brutalised the natives and kept them in line. I don't see why being Irish gives them a get of jail free card.

    And yet again you tar everyone with your brush of righteous indignation. Where you there to witness these brutal actions for yourself? Did you see EVERY British soldier "brutalise natives" with your own eyes? Or are you just quoting from books and reports and adding your own sensationalism into the mix for dramatic effect?


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    #869
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    .jacksparrow. wrote: »
    No, it was his choice to go to northern Ireland and for what reason?
    How was it his choice? Soldiers have to go where they are sent. Unless there is a very good reason, a solider can't refuse.


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    #870
    Brian Shanahan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    ynwa14 wrote: »
    Yeah.

    I remember the past three years living here in Ireland I've worn one, and waiting at the bus stop or wherever, there's always some old idiot who decides to either give me a lecture about it or ask me if I even know WHAT it means, to all of which I usually reply that yes I do and if they don't stop judging me for it I'll quickly text my uncle and ask him to send them a picture of the two fake legs he's forced to live with after losing his own serving for the british army not even 4 years ago.

    So yes I'll wear a poppy to show my support for the armed forces the same way I spend most of my free time fundraising for charities like H4H so that injured soldiers get the treatment and compensation they deserve.

    Sob stories dont just work for X Factor, they also make judgemental idiots feel reallyyy bad about themselves. :D

    And if you started talking such ****e to me, I'd cut you off with "so you support the remote killing of women and children in third world countries then. Nice to know."

    There is not one single redeeming feature in jingoism.


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    #871
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    katydid wrote: »
    How was it his choice? Soldiers have to go where they are sent. Unless there is a very good reason, a solider can't refuse.

    When was there last conscription in the UK?

    There was no conscription during the Troubles that is for sure.


This discussion has been closed.
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