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Will you wear a poppy 2013?

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    #872
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    When was there last conscription in the UK?

    There was no conscription during the Troubles that is for sure.

    If you refuse orders you will be sent to a military prison and then get a dishonourable discharge.


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    #873
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    murpho999 wrote: »
    Why does this come up every year?

    The issue is quite simple.

    The Poppy/Remembrance Sunday thing is a British occasion, and it is also marked by some Commonwealth countries such as Canada and Australia.

    Ireland is no different to countries such as France, Germany, USA,Netherlands, Belgium, Poland etc that do not mark this occasion and remember their war dead in their own way.

    There is no outcry or controversy about other countries not wearing poppies so why should there be here?
    We don't mark it in the same way, but our president attends a Remembrance day service every year, and thousands of people across the country, ex servicemen and women from the British Army, the Irish Army, and the Irish Navy remember their fallen comrades.

    How petty are you to deny that this happens.


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    #874
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Britain did start the war, in a far flung country.

    In the meantime, the IRA colluded with the Nazis, especially Sean Russell, who memorial is funded by the proceeds of the Easter Lilly.

    Britain started the second world war????????/


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    #875
    Buzz84
    Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭Buzz84


    katydid wrote: »
    Not quite the same thing. The easter lily supports terrorism, the poppy commemorates those brave people who died not only in world wars, but in other legitimate conflicts.

    It also supports murders and war criminals. The British army is responsible for the murder of tens of thousands of innocent civilians .


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    #876
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    katydid wrote: »
    You don't seem to realise that all money collected from poppies in Ireland goes to support ex service men and women in Ireland?

    Yes irrespective of the service men and woman who summarily executed soldiers in Afghanistan, Iraq or Ireland!


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    #877
    Brian Shanahan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    ynwa14 wrote: »
    I'm just going to smile smugly and exit the thread, because clearly this seems to be a touchy subject. How dare someone from a British millitary background NOT hate their own country, eh? :D

    I've noticed that those who want their country invading others in imperialistic wars of conquest tend to be those who hate their countries the most.


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    #878
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    Yes irrespective of the service men and woman who summarily executed soldiers in Afghanistan, Iraq or Ireland!

    But it's ok to support the Easter lily from which the proceeds go to people who summarily executed men and women in Ireland, the UK and other countries?


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    #879
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    Yes irrespective of the service men and woman who summarily executed soldiers in Afghanistan, Iraq or Ireland!

    What are you talking about?


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    #880
    whatsthetime
    Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭whatsthetime


    bumper234 wrote: »
    But it's ok to support the Easter lily from which the proceeds go to people who summarily executed men and women in Ireland, the UK and other countries?

    Ah but those were freedom fighters, not invaders


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    #881
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Brian Shanahan wrote: »
    I've noticed that those who want their country invading others in imperialistic wars of conquest tend to be those who hate their countries the most.

    Will you be starting a thread when the US memorial day comes around telling them how they shouldn't be remembering their fallen soldiers?


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    #882
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    whatsthetime wrote: »
    Ah but those were freedom fighters, not invaders

    One mans "freedom fighter" is another mans terrorist.


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    #883
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    bumper234 wrote: »
    But it's ok to support the Easter lily from which the proceeds go to people who summarily executed men and women in Ireland, the UK and other countries?

    If it is OK for one, it is OK for the other. If it is not OK for one, it is not OK for the other


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    #884
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    katydid wrote: »
    What are you talking about?

    The truth... sounds like you can't handle the truth!


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    #885
    whatsthetime
    Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭whatsthetime


    bumper234 wrote: »
    One mans "freedom fighter" is another mans terrorist.

    Ànd one mans British Army is another mans terrorist


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    #886
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    bumper234 wrote: »
    And yet again you tar everyone with your brush of righteous indignation. Where you there to witness these brutal actions for yourself? Did you see EVERY British soldier "brutalise natives" with your own eyes? Or are you just quoting from books and reports and adding your own sensationalism into the mix for dramatic effect?


    ....sure they were running an Empire. What the jaysus do ye think they were there for? Handing out hobnobs to the locals?


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    #887
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    If it is OK for one, it is OK for the other. If it is not OK for one, it is not OK for the other

    Exactly. I have no issue with someone wearing a lily so I don't see why someone should have an issue with my poppy.


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    #888
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    whatsthetime wrote: »
    Ànd one mans British Army is another mans terrorist

    Yeah that makes no sense at all.


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    #889
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Nodin wrote: »
    ....sure they were running an Empire. What the jaysus do ye think they were there for? Handing out hobnobs to the locals?

    So that's a no then?


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    #890
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    bumper234 wrote: »
    So that's a no then?


    You're essentially trying to tell me that a hammer was not used on a building site to hit nails. The French were bastards, the Belgians, Spaniards - the Portugese have a terrible reputation - the Dutch. But not Britains Empire. O no, that was in the "Good Guys" section of the book.


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    #891
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Yeah that makes no sense at all.

    Actually it does; plenty of people feel about the British Army exactly the same as a lot of Unionists feel about the PIRA and they have good reason too.

    Personally I could be called a West Brit because I love Wales and England having lived in both for several years and often feel closer to their cultures than I do to that of Ireland (Irish Unionists are part of Irish culture- the Orange Order wasnt founded in Somerset) and its true that sometimes Irish Republicans and nationalists want to paint the English as uniquely evil, forgetting the horrors of the French Empire for example, but white washing the British Empire and the fact that being part of the UK was and still is a disaster for Ireland as a whole and a large part of Ulster today in my opinion is far worse than that.


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    #892
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Exactly. I have no issue with someone wearing a lily so I don't see why someone should have an issue with my poppy.

    Other than calling them terrorist supporters whilst moralising about the great BA


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    #893
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Nodin wrote: »
    You're essentially trying to tell me that a hammer was not used on a building site to hit nails. The French were bastards, the Belgians, Spaniards - the Portugese have a terrible reputation - the Dutch. But not Britains Empire. O no, that was in the "Good Guys" section of the book.

    Never said that. I am saying that you consistently insist on tarring all British soldiers past and present as murderer's without the slightest shred of first hand evidence. You wring your hands and keep bringing up things that happened many years ago (no one denies that bad things happened) but you try to make out that every soldier who ever served in the BA is a homicidal sociopath.


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    #894
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Never said that. I am saying that you consistently insist on tarring all British soldiers past and present as murderer's without the slightest shred of first hand evidence. You wring your hands and keep bringing up things that happened many years ago (no one denies that bad things happened) but you try to make out that every soldier who ever served in the BA is a homicidal sociopath.



    ...let's try this again. The British Empire was - like many others - a racist and brutal affair. The BA - as part of its duties - suppressed and brutalised the population. That was it's job. That's what it was there for, specifically. Are you with me now?


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    #895
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    moxin wrote: »
    And the poppy has been hijacked within Ireland by Unionism to show you are a Unionist supporter and loyal to you know who.

    In Britain itself, the poppy wearers don't care about the Unionists in NI just like they don't want to be associated with Orange marches. They wear it mainly for supporting Britain's wars. This disconnect is lost on Unionists.

    Not neccessarily at all in my experience. Most wear one to remember family members lost in war and also to donate for people who are in a mess because of wars. You have to remember when it started there were lots of people rotting away unable to work because of WWI and it was supposed to be something to help them. That said the whole point of the British Legion was to deal with the danger that the independent Veterans groups posed to the state in the aftermath of that war.

    Personally Im uncomfortable with the Poppy but in actual Britain its a complex issue. Just because someone wears a Poppy there doesnt mean they are some jingoistic Imperialist.


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    #896
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Nodin wrote: »
    ...let's try this again. The British Empire was - like many others - a racist and brutal affair. The BA - as part of its duties - suppressed and brutalised the population. That was it's job. That's what it was there for, specifically. Are you with me now?

    Do you despise Spanish, French, Russian people because they held empires. Would you shun someone from Italy because of the atrocities commited by Roman soldiers? Would you burn an American flag because of the empirical moves it is making these days? Or do you only wring your hands and cry foul because it's the Brits. :rolleyes:


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    #897
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Do you despise Spanish, French, Russian people because they held empires. Would you shun someone from Italy because of the atrocities commited by Roman soldiers? Would you burn an American flag because of the empirical moves it is making these days? Or do you only wring your hands and cry foul because it's the Brits. :rolleyes:



    ....where have I been slagging off British people....?


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    #898
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Do you despise Spanish, French, Russian people because they held empires. Would you shun someone from Italy because of the atrocities commited by Roman soldiers? Would you burn an American flag because of the empirical moves it is making these days? Or do you only wring your hands and cry foul because it's the Brits. :rolleyes:

    Evidence that Nodin despises the British?

    We are not discussing the French or Spanish Empires here but yes they were evil, that however does not make the British one okay.


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    #899
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Evidence that Nodin despises the British?

    We are not discussing the French or Spanish Empires here but yes they were evil, that however does not make the British one okay.

    Am not saying it's ok but if you are going to judge every British soldier (past present and probably future) over something that happened years ago then you should in all fairness judge the soldiers from ALL countries that have held empire status over the years.


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    #900
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Am not saying it's ok but if you are going to judge every British soldier (past present and probably future) over something that happened years ago then you should in all fairness judge the soldiers from ALL countries that have held empire status over the years.

    The thing is that the wounds are still pretty fresh from the troubles and the hypocrisy of the British Army over what they got up to during it means its not so easily forgiven- look at katy labeling one side as indiscriminately terrorists for instance forgetting that collusion was more common with the BA than with the RUC as well as the regular use of torture.

    Also we are discussing the Poppy- the Poppy is a British thing, not a French or a Spanish one. You could easily be accused of whataboutery no?

    While Im uncomfortable with it I can respect people wearing it in Britain- it doesnt have a place in Ireland.


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    #901
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Am not saying it's ok but if you are going to judge every British soldier (past present and probably future) over something that happened years ago then you should in all fairness judge the soldiers from ALL countries that have held empire status over the years.



    ........when they come looking for cash for their veterans, I will.


This discussion has been closed.
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