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Will you wear a poppy 2013?

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    #122
    TeddyTedson
    Registered Users Posts: 10,758 ✭✭✭✭TeddyTedson


    I won't be wearing one. We've no tradition of it here like other countries so I don't know why we'd start now.
    Then again if someone wants I haven't the slightest idea why people would be upset with them. A bit of a politicians answer :P


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    #123
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    enda1 wrote: »
    You can't really believe in facial piercings without having them (similar for the other three examples) but you can believe in helping the soldiers or whatever you're doing without telling everyone.

    I'm an atheist and I find believing in a God ridiculous, however I don't show any outward symbol of this belief nor tell strangers what I believe. Why should I?

    (And yes I am aware of the apparent irony of the above statement).

    But it's possible to keep them covered up. I am also an atheist but if i saw someone carrying a huge cross or preaching about how God is our savior over a megaphone (as i did today) i wouldn't feel any righteous indignation or disgust neither would i start preaching about how millions have died because of their religion.


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    #124
    Jimoslimos
    Registered Users Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Jimoslimos


    Captain Farrell wrote: »
    There's a remembrance day in Japan on 6 August for them.
    I've been in both cities, the emphasis is on remembering the dead in a non-political manner and in highlighting the dangers of nuclear war. Very peace orientated.

    Contrast that with the British version, which is all pomp and pageantry with references to the "glorious dead", "heroes" and "bravery"


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    #125
    Rod Serling
    Closed Accounts Posts: 131 ✭✭Rod Serling


    Hahahaha how can anyone actually have a problem with Irish people wearing a poppy?

    2013 you knuckle draggers.


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    #126
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Why are some Irish people so determined to wear a symbol expressing support for the British Army "past and present"? The symbol is not about those who died in the world wars, but those who fought in every other campaign since then. Those who massacred protesters in India, those who tortured prisoners in Kenya, those who committed Bloody Sunday and those who beat Baha Mousa to death in Iraq are all commemorated by that symbol.

    What exactly is the appeal of a symbol that expresses support for the often imperialistic campaigns of a foreign army? Least of all an army with an abysmal human rights record in our own country?

    It boggles the mind like.


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    #127
    marshbaboon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭marshbaboon


    I'll definitely be wearing a puppy. Not a whole one though, just the skin.


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    #128
    Aquagakka
    Registered Users Posts: 116 ✭✭Aquagakka


    No.


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    #129
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    FTA69 wrote: »
    Why are some Irish people so determined to wear a symbol expressing support for the British Army "past and present"? The symbol is not about those who died in the world wars, but those who fought in every other campaign since then. Those who massacred protesters in India, those who tortured prisoners in Kenya, those who committed Bloody Sunday and those who beat Baha Mousa to death in Iraq are all commemorated by that symbol.

    What exactly is the appeal of a symbol that expresses support for the often imperialistic campaigns of a foreign army? Least of all an army with an abysmal human rights record in our own country?

    It boggles the mind like.

    Thank God your taxes don't pay for these murdering bastards.

    For every soldier who committed an atrocity, there are 1,000 who served with honour and dedication.


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    #130
    Rubeter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 390 ✭✭Rubeter


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Thank God your taxes don't pay for these murdering bastards.

    For every soldier who committed an atrocity, there are 1,000 who served with honour and dedication.
    In many countries the atrocity was them being there in the first place.


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    #131
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    FTA69 wrote: »
    Why are some Irish people so determined to wear a symbol expressing support for the British Army "past and present"? The symbol is not about those who died in the world wars, but those who fought in every other campaign since then. Those who massacred protesters in India, those who tortured prisoners in Kenya, those who committed Bloody Sunday and those who beat Baha Mousa to death in Iraq are all commemorated by that symbol.

    What exactly is the appeal of a symbol that expresses support for the often imperialistic campaigns of a foreign army? Least of all an army with an abysmal human rights record in our own country?

    It boggles the mind like.

    Probably the same reason Irish people buy an Easter lily to remember the members of the IRA and INLA who massacred, tortured and murdered innocent people .

    It boggles the mind like.


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    #132
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Thank God your taxes don't pay for these murdering bastards.

    I wish my taxes didn't go on the likes of Trident and war-mongering but there you go. I wish my taxes at home didn't get spent on Bertie Ahern's massive pension either, it doesn't mean I can't criticise it.
    For every soldier who committed an atrocity, there are 1,000 who served with honour and dedication.

    That's not the point. I'm not saying that every soldier is a two-headed sadist because they're not. And I probably know more ex-servicemen than most people commenting on this thread. What I am saying however, is that many of the campaigns the British Army has participated in have themselves been amoral and conducted entirely in the interests of British colonialism and all the bad stuff that went with that. In pursuing these campaigns, British soldiers have also inflicted enormous hurt on people around the world.

    I am all for commemorating those who died in warfare; but I'll be f*cked if I'll jump on board with an appeal that unreservedly supports the British Army and also spins the "goodies vs baddies", "heroes vs villains" narrative that goes with that.

    Again, why would an Irish person wear a symbol that unreservedly supports the deeds of a foreign army with a bad record in their own country?


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    #133
    gobnaitolunacy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭gobnaitolunacy


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    Personally, I prefer the Help For Hero's charity myself,.

    Why do they need a charity? The government send them out there, the government should look after them afterwards, fully, no question.


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    #134
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Probably the same reason Irish people buy an Easter lily to remember the members of the IRA and INLA who massacred, tortured and murdered innocent people .

    It boggles the mind like.

    That doesn't make any sense. I can see why an Irish Republican would wear a symbol commemorating Irish Republicans. There isn't exactly a contradiction there to be fair.

    Why would an Irish person wear a symbol that commemorates the British Army's record in Ireland or Iraq however?


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    #135
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    gobnaitolunacy wrote: »
    Why do they need a charity? The government send them out there, the government should look after them afterwards, fully, no question.

    I remember reading an article over here about how injured soldiers were pretty much abandoned when they got home, with the centre they were temporarily put in being infested with vermin and damp. Some fella losing his leg in Afghanistan gets around 12 grand while the MOD once paid hundreds of thousands to a woman with carpal tunnel syndrome. In other words, the state doesn't give a f*ck about working-class young people who fight and die for them in their campaigns.

    You look at the ads over here then with the macho man images of fellas jumping out of choppers etc and contrast that with the reality of a 23 year old who was crippled and blinded in a country he knows nothing about.


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    #136
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Legs.Eleven wrote: »
    Does anyone in Ireland ever wear one?

    Yes of course we do, specially (but not exclusively) us Prods, but do we really have to go through this all over again?
    There's at least one thread on this topic every year . . . .

    Here's one from 2010 > http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=68838470
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68843768&postcount=40


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    #137
    The_Gatsby
    Registered Users Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭The_Gatsby


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    It's not what it is about to me. It's what it is about, full stop. It commemorates all those who died in the British Army and honours those who continue to serve in it. According to their own website the money raised from poppies goes to "support the British Armed Forces past and present." Fuck that.
    Now I know other countries such as Canada have their own poppies but here it's different, here its for the British Armed forces and all their squalid little campaigns, not just WW1 and 2.

    The soldiers who fight don't come up with these "squalid little campaigns". How do you think they feel fighting in Afghanistan only to get their legs blown off for a war that ultimately hasn't achieved much. Because they're the people that the poppies are supposed to help


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    #138
    Matt_Trakker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭Matt_Trakker


    The_Gatsby wrote: »
    How do you think they feel fighting in Afghanistan only to get their legs blown off for a war that ultimately hasn't achieved much. Because they're the people that the poppies are supposed to help
    They can always quit.


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    #139
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    The_Gatsby wrote: »
    The soldiers who fight don't come up with these "squalid little campaigns". How do you think they feel fighting in Afghanistan only to get their legs blown off for a war that ultimately hasn't achieved much. Because they're the people that the poppies are supposed to help

    What about the people from Afghanistan getting their legs blown off? They get much less care, and no poppy campaign.


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    #140
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    FTA69 wrote: »
    Why would an Irish person wear a symbol that commemorates the British Army's record in Ireland or Iraq however?

    Apart from those who genuinely wish to commemorate having lost a loved one in WWI/II I'd say it's dimwits who take all their cues from the UK media or just the good old fawning goons who wish the Brits never left.


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    #141
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    LordSutch wrote: »
    specially (but not exclusively) us Prods

    I don't think the vast majority of Irish Protestants would be too pleased at having a self-confessed, and very rare, neo-Unionist speak for them.


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    #142
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    FTA69 wrote: »
    That doesn't make any sense. I can see why an Irish Republican would wear a symbol commemorating Irish Republicans. There isn't exactly a contradiction there to be fair.

    Why would an Irish person wear a symbol that commemorates the British Army's record in Ireland or Iraq however?

    They could be wearing it to remember the war dead from WW1 and 2.


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    #143
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Charlie Rock wrote: »
    I don't think the vast majority of Irish Protestants would be too pleased at having a self-confessed, and very rare, neo-Unionist speak for them.

    You are being unkind to me there^

    I grew up within the anglican community in Ireland. I have been to many C of I remembrance services up and down the ROI, and this is my experince. What more can I say . . . Yes of course I can't say that 99.9% of Protestants wear the poppy, but the war dead are commemoreted on or around the 11th of November, and the congregation (not all) usually wear poppies to remember their family losses from the past!


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    #144
    TeddyTedson
    Registered Users Posts: 10,758 ✭✭✭✭TeddyTedson


    I don't see many people even wearing shamrock to be thankful of Paddy for exterminating all the snakes. Irish people don't seem to care about wearing these sort of remembrance symbols.


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    #145
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    bumper234 wrote: »
    They could be wearing it to remember the war dead from WW1 and 2.

    But that's my point above, the Poppy isn't about the world wars it's also about India, Ireland, Iraq, Kenya and everywhere else the British Army has campaigned. It's a symbol that's inextricably linked with any and all British Army actions past and present. It's a bit foolish to just conveniently ignore that aspect of the poppy.


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    #146
    Uaru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 153 ✭✭Uaru


    Why is this even up for discussion on an Irish forum?

    Does the same thread come up for Daffodil Day?


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    #147
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Can anyone fully provide for a young soldier who has had their limbs blown off by an ied whilst guarding a school targeted because they educate girls?

    Oh c'mon Fred. Spare us the 'educating flowers in the desert' bullshit. You know, as well as I do, that Afghanistan is a strategically important location in the New Great Game.
    Prince Andrew told her that the UK, Western Europe and the US were now "back in the thick of playing the Great Game" - a reference to the 19th Century struggle between the British and Russian Empires for control of Central Asia.

    "More animated than ever, he stated cockily 'and this time we aim to win',"

    bbc.co.uk/news

    Who better than a British 'Blue Blood' to say it like it is, eh?


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    #148
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Skylinehead wrote: »
    What about the people from Afghanistan getting their legs blown off? They get much less care, and no poppy campaign.

    Maybe you should take that up with the Taliban, they're the ones doing the vast majority of the killing.

    Which, oddly enough, is why the UN are there in the first place.


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    #149
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Maybe you should take that up with the Taliban, they're the ones doing the vast majority of the killing.

    Which, oddly enough, is why the UN are there in the first place.

    UN? I think you mean NATO lad. Let's not pretend the invasion of Afghanistan was anything other than a US-led affair with Blair playing a cameo rule.


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    #150
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Charlie Rock wrote: »
    Oh c'mon Fred. Spare us the 'educating flowers in the desert' bullshit. You know, as well as I do, that Afghanistan is a strategically important location in the New Great Game.?

    You do know Russia is helping ISAF dont you?

    Or is it really about an oil pipeline

    Or maybe Afghanistan wanted to start trading oil in euros/gold/this week's conspiracy bull****.


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    #151
    overshoot
    Registered Users Posts: 3,216 ✭✭✭overshoot


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    You do know Russia is helping ISAF dont you?

    Or is it really about an oil pipeline

    Or maybe Afghanistan wanted to start trading oil in euros/gold/this week's conspiracy bull****.
    did the UN security council authorise the invasion?
    bull sure.....


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