Will you wear a poppy 2013?

Karl Stein

Carlos Roca wrote: »

What you're essentially saying is that young people who joined the IRA had an understanding of what they were getting into but BA privates didn't?

SoulandForm wrote: »

Not in the early to mid 70s maybe- afterwards yes.

Could you clarify what you mean please?

Nodin

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

And the provos were better were they? Recruiting and brain washing young boys from a working class background with little education and less opportunities. The IRA gave them a gun and told them they're fighting for Ireland, made them feel important, like they meant something, that they were contributing to a better future in a more equal Ireland. Feeding them these lies so they would go out and kill British Soldiers. Just sayin'.

....you understand that by making such "remarks" rather than valid points, you just weaken your overall arguments

Iwasfrozen wrote:

You don't agree the troubles had a radicalising affect on
otherwise peaceful people?

The sectarian statelet had a radicalising effect on otherwise peaceful people.

R P McMurphy

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Oh? Their members were not drawn from the under educated lower classes? That's a new one on me.


What nonsense, the IRA did none of these things. The only "achievements" I attribute to the IRA are the starting of the troubles, the destruction of the government of Northern Ireland which led to direct rule, the prolonging of the conflict by forcing the British Army to under take peace keeping missions in Northern Ireland and the radicalisation of otherwise peaceful working class nationalists and unionists.

Peace keeping missions? I would have to agree, you are a low grade troll and intent of rising people. Onto ignore

Savoir.Faire

The cause of Irish freedom never sleeps it would appear.

An Coilean

seamus wrote: »

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence.

It would be folly to suggest that the dire response of the British government during the famine was a deliberate attempt to wipe out the Irish or halve the population.

There is surviving written evidence that shows the man put in charge of relief efforts by the British government, Travillion, saw the famine as being a punishment from God for the sins of the Irish, and also as a useful means of reducing the population.

HansHolzel

It was the "direct stroke of an all-wise and all-merciful providence" (Charles Trevelyan)

dublinbhoy88

LordSutch wrote: »

Good post that^ Podge.

Sadly I suspect our argument is lost on many.

of course it will, everyone with half a brain knows their is nothing political about war Mmmm

timthumbni

Nodin wrote: »

....

The sectarian statelet had a radicalising effect on otherwise peaceful people.[/SIZE]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"Sectarian statelet" ..... Did you study the Sinn Fein 101 course for slow learners or something.

I know it may be just luck on which side you were born in Northern Ireland but as an atheist I thank god I wasn't born on your side. I am so glad.

The only good thing about most of the fanatical armchair types on here is that the majority of you aren't even from or living in Northern Ireland. Thank god again. Maybe I should start going to church again to thank him in person.

Iwasfrozen

Nodin wrote: »

....you understand that by making such "remarks" rather than valid points, you just weaken your overall arguments
The sectarian statelet had a radicalising effect on otherwise peaceful people.

I disagree, both the IRA and the UVF were formed prior to the formation of NI, it's clear NI was not the radicalising element. Militant nationalism was, whteher it be British or Irish nationalism.

HansHolzel

The collusion deniers should have a gander at Susan McKay's review in the weekend section of today's Irish Times.

Iwasfrozen

R P McMurphy wrote: »

Peace keeping missions? I would have to agree, you are a low grade troll and intent of rising people. Onto ignore

If you're going to put people on ignore who disagree with you you're going to have to ignore a lot of people. The truth is the BA entered Northern Ireland as a peace-keeping force. In fact they were welcomed at first by nationalists because of this. You should brush up on your history before you start calling people trolls.

LordSutch

Getting back to the Poppy . . .

The Story Behind the Remembrance Poppy

http://www.greatwar.co.uk/article/remembrance-poppy.htm

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-naDtleuvTlg/TkbMAv2dgLI/AAAAAAAAALY/fDviDmS6t2Y/s640/Flanders+in+poppyfields.jpg

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=87224931&postcount=967

bumper234

timthumbni wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"Sectarian statelet" ..... Did you study the Sinn Fein 101 course for slow learners or something.

I know it may be just luck on which side you were born in Northern Ireland but as an atheist I thank god I wasn't born on your side. I am so glad.

The only good thing about most of the fanatical armchair types on here is that the majority of you aren't even from or living in Northern Ireland. Thank god again. Maybe I should start going to church again to thank him in person.

wazky

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

If you're going to put people on ignore who disagree with you you're going to have to ignore a lot of people. The truth is the BA entered Northern Ireland as a peace-keeping force. In fact they were welcomed at first by nationalists because of this. You should brush up on your history before you start calling people trolls.

Sentiment kinda changed though when they started shooting the Nationalists.

timthumbni

bumper234 wrote: »

I was taking the p. I am a confirmed atheist and have been for many years. But that's for another thread. This one is having problems already with the old sticking to topic. I don't want to bring religion and/or lack of religion into it. :-)

Hilly Bill

wazky wrote: »

Sentiment kinda changed though when they started shooting back at the Nationalists.

Thats about right.

wazky

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Thats about right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falls_Curfew

Nope my original comment was right, all started when BA went into the Falls with "reckless abandon" to search for weapons and shot dead 4 civilians.

Nice try though :rolleyes:

wazky

And before you all scream that the the BA were returning fire:

Charles O'Neill, a 36-year-old Catholic civilian: Ran over by an armoured car whilst trying to flag it down. ("Move on you Irish bastard - there are not enough of you dead" - Remarked one brave solider as they prodded his body)

Thomas Burns, a 54-year-old Catholic civilian: Shot dead while chatting with a neighbour.

Patrick Elliman, a 62-year-old Catholic civilian: Shot in the head while getting a breath of fresh air.

Zbigniew Uglik, a 23-year-old visitor from England: A photographer.

Nodin

timthumbni wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"Sectarian statelet" ..... Did you study the Sinn Fein 101 course for slow learners or something.
...........

....so you're saying that NI was not an institutionally sectarian place with widespread and open discrimination?

Iwasfrozen wrote:

I disagree, both the IRA and the UVF were formed prior to the formation of
NI, it's clear NI was not the radicalising element. Militant nationalism was,
whteher it be British or Irish nationalism

Simplistic guff. The IRA was not active at the same levels for all of its history and the rise of the Provisionals parallels the violent repression of the civil rights movement and nationalist population.

LordSutch

Would be great if we could keep this POPPY thread on topic!

http://www.greatwar.co.uk/article/remembrance-poppy.htm

Nodin

LordSutch wrote: »

Would be great if we could keep this POPPY thread on topic!

http://www.greatwar.co.uk/article/remembrance-poppy.htm

Ok - The poppy sold by the RBL goes to more than WW1 and II related projects.

Hilly Bill

wazky wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falls_Curfew

Nope my original comment was right, all started when BA went into the Falls with "reckless abandon" to search for weapons and shot dead 4 civilians.

Nice try though :rolleyes:

No, it all started when the terrorists wanted to be seen as the defenders of their areas and turned against anyone who dared to buy a poppy.

Nodin

Hilly Bill wrote: »

No, it all started when the terrorists wanted to be seen as the defenders of their areas and turned against anyone who dared to buy a poppy.

.....theres probably a point buried under the crap in that post, but I honestly can't get to it - perhaps you'll explain?

indioblack

Nodin wrote: »

Ok - The poppy sold by the RBL goes to more than WW1 and II related projects.

OK - construct a mechanism by which monies collected from the sale of poppiescannot be redistributed to the undeserving.

Skylinehead

indioblack wrote: »

OK - construct a mechanism by which monies collected from the sale of poppiescannot be redistributed to the undeserving.

Just give it WW1/WW2/Korea veterans, as well as those involved in peacekeeping, such as Kosovo?

Nodin

indioblack wrote: »

OK - construct a mechanism by which monies collected from the sale of poppiescannot be redistributed to the undeserving.

Restrict to WW1, WWII related projects?

indioblack

Skylinehead wrote: »

Just give it WW1/WW2/Korea veterans, as well as those involved in peacekeeping, such as Kosovo?

I suspect that "undeserving" to some in this thread would encompass so much of British military history that it would be simpler if the RBL was wound up altogether!

wazky

Hilly Bill wrote: »

No, it all started when the terrorists wanted to be seen as the defenders of their areas and turned against anyone who dared to buy a poppy.

Arr terrorists.. arrr poppy.. arrr arrr arr

indioblack

Nodin wrote: »

Restrict to WW1, WWII related projects?

So much of Remembrance Day, poppies etc., is linked - even indirectly - to peoples perspectives of imperialism, that it is probably impossible to have the former without invoking memories of the latter. So there will be annual threads like this one - and little common ground.

DEFTLEFTHAND

I wonder do Loyalist paramilitaries shake down the poppy sellers. I was watching a documentary on Johnny Adair recently and the vice like grip he and the UDA had on their areas, also the LVF after Billy Wright's death seemed to veer off into full out gangsterism.

Do these groups still have influence like that in Belfast today?