Will you wear a poppy 2013?

Tramps Like Us

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I wonder do Loyalist paramilitaries shake down the poppy sellers. I was watching a documentary on Johnny Adair recently and the vice like grip he and the UDA had on their areas, also the LVF after Billy Wright's death seemed to veer off into full out gangsterism.

Do these groups still have influence like that in Belfast today?

The UVF have a lot of influence. BBC spotlight did a good program on it recently it should be on youtube. The UVF have greatly increased their activity over the past 18 months.

bumper234

Nodin wrote: »

Ok - The poppy sold by the RBL goes to more than WW1 and II related projects.

Some money raised by concern in Ireland will inevitably end up in the hands of former soldiers in African nations that commited crimes. Should concern wind up their charity and stop trying to help people?

Skylinehead

bumper234 wrote: »

Some money raised by concern in Ireland will inevitably end up in the hands of former soldiers in African nations that commited crimes. Should concern wind up their charity and stop trying to help people?

I'm struggling to see the relevance of Concern to this

wazky

Skylinehead wrote: »

I'm struggling to see the relevance of Concern to this

There is none, but some people have an awful habit of "whataboutry".

padd b1975

As a gesture of cross community piss taking, I have decided to wear a poppy and a lily on each of my man boobs.

Nodin

bumper234 wrote: »

Some money raised by concern in Ireland will inevitably end up in the hands of former soldiers in African nations that commited crimes. Should concern wind up their charity and stop trying to help people?

"the odd bad egg" yet again? This has been explained to you before.

moxin

The UVF were the orchestrators of the Fleg riots especially in East Belfast and even shot a woman in their own community very recently. As per form we didn't see the usual suspects who are quick to condemn republican violence foaming at the mouth in condemnation of the UVF.

On the poppy, dissociate it from Unionist jingoism and keep it to WWI and WWII rather than giving its proceeds to murderers of hundreds of Irish civilians in recent times.

Karl Stein

moxin wrote: »

The UVF were the orchestrators of the Fleg riots

Didn't the so-called 'moderate' Unionist parties leaflet loyalist areas saying 'er fleg's bein tekkin down - that's er culcher undur attak'?

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Carlos Roca wrote: »

Didn't the so-called 'moderate' Unionist parties leaflet loyalist areas saying 'er fleg's bein tekkin down - that's er culcher undur attak'?

Yup. Mr moderate Mike Nesbitt did.
However other Unionist did stand against the fleg protestors such as Basil McCrea , credit where its due.

moxin

Carlos Roca wrote: »

Didn't the so-called 'moderate' Unionist parties leaflet loyalist areas saying 'er fleg's bein tekkin down - that's er culcher undur attak'?

Yes and the UVF took the opportunity to "show their strength". Most of the trouble was in East Belfast, not the hotspot of the Shankill\Village for example as those areas are contested within loyalism.

The PSNI let it go on for 6 weeks as they were afraid to rumble the UVF. The riots only ended when the UVF leadership issued a statement to stop, that's when the PSNI moved in and actually started to prosecute people.

Dyr

How is belfast city hall doing under the fleg rationing regime? Has the sky fallen yet? Are loyalists significantly less cultural then they were while it was flying proudly every day?

wazky

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Yup. Mr moderate Mike Nesbitt did.
However other Unionist did stand against the fleg protestors such as Basil McCrea , credit where its due.

How many condemned the utter stupidity of the protest and violence after?

Or the violence after the Orange parades?

bumper234

Skylinehead wrote: »

I'm struggling to see the relevance of Concern to this

I buy a poppy.

some of that money may go to a soldier who served in NI.

People call for the end of poppy sales.

I donate money to concern.

some of that money may go to a former Rwandan hutu soldier who killed tutsi's

Should concern stop collecting and sending money to Africa?

Royal British Legion and concern are both charities and I am wondering if people only have problems with a British charity collecting for people who need it or are they against all charities?

wazky

bumper234 wrote: »

I buy a poppy.

some of that money may go to a soldier who served in NI.

People call for the end of poppy sales.

I donate money to concern.

some of that money may go to a former Rwandan hutu soldier who killed tutsi's

Should concern stop collecting and sending money to Africa?

Royal British Legion and concern are both charities and I am wondering if people only have problems with a British charity collecting for people who need it or are they against all charities?

I pay taxes.

Government pays wages with taxes.

Those wages could be used to buy drugs.

Money goes to drug gangs.

Solution: Stop paying taxes.

Good logic there.

bumper234

Nodin wrote: »

"the odd bad egg" yet again? This has been explained to you before.

So ALL ex British soldiers are rotten to the core and deserve nothing?

moxin

And Basil McCrea had to form his own party to forge an identity as a moderate Unionist. Nesbitt has been a disappointment, pandering to old style Orange extremism to get votes.

Nodin

bumper234 wrote: »

I buy a poppy.

some of that money may go to a soldier who served in NI.

Or Aden, Kenya, Uganda, Nigeria, Egypt, Burma, Gambia, Somalia, Malaya, Cyprus, Tanjanika, Sierra Leone, Ghana, India........

It's not somehow ok just because its far away.

The problem is with a charity collecting for the BA. It's rather bizarre I should have to point that out at this stage.

Nodin

bumper234 wrote: »

So ALL ex British soldiers are rotten to the core and deserve nothing?

You might read my post 1638 there.

bumper234

Nodin wrote: »

Or Aden, Kenya, Uganda, Nigeria, Egypt, Burma, Gambia, Somalia, Malaya, Cyprus, Tanjanika, Sierra Leone, Ghana, India........

It's not somehow ok just because its far away.

The problem is with a charity collecting for the BA. It's rather bizarre I should have to point that out at this stage.

But you have no problem with a charity giving money to soldiers who took part in a genocide that culminated in the death of up to a million people.

I guess it is just a Brit hating thing after all.....who'da thunk it :rolleyes:

wazky

bumper234 wrote: »

I guess it is just a Brit hating thing after all.....who'da thunk it :rolleyes:

Victim card must be well worn at this stage is it?

Nodin

bumper234 wrote: »

But you have no problem with a charity giving money to soldiers who took part in a genocide that culminated in the death of up to a million people.

............

....if an African charity gives to such, its an unfortunate coincidence. If a BA charity gives to a BA member, it's hardly a shock. The specific and dedicated task of the BA was - for centuries - to police the Empire. That was an evil thing.

bumper234

Nodin wrote: »

....if an African charity gives to such, its an unfortunate coincidence. If a BA charity gives to a BA member, it's hardly a shock. The specific and dedicated task of the BA was - for centuries - to police the Empire. That was an evil thing.

Concern is an Irish charity using money donated by Irish citizens yet you have no problem with them donating to soldiers who took part on recent genocide you would rather wring your hands over past things that the British Army did. :eek:

bumper234

wazky wrote: »

Victim card must be well worn at this stage is it?

Never claimed to be a victim never will claim to be a victim. Just pointing out the hypocrisy of the republican side in here

wazky

bumper234 wrote: »

Concern is an Irish charity using money donated by Irish citizens yet you have no problem with them donating to soldiers who took part on recent genocide you would rather wring your hands over past things that the British Army did. :eek:

Concern = Aiding the poor, starving etc in Africa

Poppy = Going to BA

No comparison really, Concern's intention is not to aid murderers, the Poppy's is.

Don't see how this can be explained to you any clearer.

Nodin

bumper234 wrote: »

Concern is an Irish charity using money donated by Irish citizens yet you have no problem with them donating to soldiers who took part on recent genocide you would rather wring your hands over past things that the British Army did. :eek:

The raison d'etre of Concern is not to provide for soldiers of a now fallen Empire or the perpetrators of war crimes. This is not the same with the RBL.

You keep using this silly, woejous analogies that have nothing to do with the facts at hand. The BA was a tool of Empire. As a result a charity that rewards members of the BA is going to be at very best highly problematic for a lot of people.

Karl Stein

wazky wrote: »

Don't see how this can be explained to you any clearer.

Could you do it with sock puppets and upload it to youtube?

Ah go on.. :pac:

wazky

Carlos Roca wrote: »

Could you do it with sock puppets and upload it to youtube?

Ah go on.. :pac:

Don't joke, we are nearly at that stage with some posters here.

bumper234

wazky wrote: »

Concern = Aiding the poor, starving etc in Africa

Poppy = Going to BA

No comparison really, Concern's intention is not to aid murderers, the Poppy's is.

Don't see how this can be explained to you any clearer.

Name ONE murderer who has received money from the poppy appeal money please.

wazky

bumper234 wrote: »

Name ONE murderer who has received money from the poppy appeal money please.

O dear lord can we not go through all this again, Ill name someone, you will reply with "evidence", Ill provide said evidence, you will refute it, Ill provide yet more evidence, which you will overlook and go on another wild tangent with increasingly nonsensical analogies.

Nodin

bumper234 wrote: »

Name ONE murderer who has received money from the poppy appeal money please.

.....but any killing, beating or torture carried out against resistance to the Empire was unjustifiable.