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Will you wear a poppy 2013?

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    #1832
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,870 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    So Britain, France, the US and USSR should have just stayed out of it?

    Well, as we all know, they only choice war for their own interests, not out of any humanitarian concern for anyone else.
    Nodin wrote: »
    ....yet the Nazi regime was worse, in that it was genocidal in the most severe reading of the term. In some regards yes, the Russians and Germans did what the British did, except mostly in Europe as opposed to Africa and elsewhere, but the Nazis were certainly the worst of the bunch. Nice uniforms, fair enough, but an evil regime that had to be stopped.

    How is the genocide carried out by the nazis any worse than that carried out on the natives in the Americas or Australia? :confused:


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    #1833
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    ..........

    How is the genocide carried out by the nazis any worse than that carried out on the natives in the Americas or Australia? :confused:

    There's no comparison, generally speaking. An entire system set up to exterminate a specific set of groups.


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    #1834
    drumaneen
    Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭drumaneen


    old hippy wrote: »
    It's that time of year again where mass debates ensue over paper flowers, pensioners, prisoners of war, the struggle, lillies et al. I noticed the first advert this morning at the bus stop today.

    Will you be sporting one?

    Certainly will. Never considered it just a British/Commonwealth thing - it commemorates all Alled dead. Americans wear the poppy on Memorial Day (see http://www.va.gov/opa/publications/celebrate/flower.pdf)


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    #1835
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,870 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Nodin wrote: »
    There's no comparison, generally speaking. An entire system set up to exterminate a specific set of groups.

    Of course there's a comparison "generally speaking".


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    #1836
    peewee_44
    Registered Users Posts: 488 ✭✭peewee_44


    I would if i knew where to buy one


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    #1837
    BQQ
    Registered Users Posts: 2,080 ✭✭✭BQQ


    Nodin wrote: »
    There's no comparison, generally speaking. An entire system set up to exterminate a specific set of groups.

    Like the concentration camps during the Boer wars?


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    #1838
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    BQQ wrote: »
    Like the concentration camps during the Boer wars?

    Again, they were not camps specifically set up to kill all the boers, nor were the camps used by the British in other colonised areas.


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    #1839
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    HansHolzel wrote: »
    sadder than sad

    Was it earlier in the thread that someone asked what was meant by republican bullying?


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    #1840
    drumaneen
    Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭drumaneen


    peewee_44 wrote: »
    I would if i knew where to buy one

    Go to http://rbl-limerick.webs.com and scroll to 'Donate' - give 'em over a €1 via Paypal and they'll have a couple in the next post to you.


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    #1841
    tdv123
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭tdv123


    LordSutch wrote: »
    A good sentiment to carry, but when did Gardai die in a war?



    Curious, have you or the family ever honoured his sacrifice in any way?

    They've always been at war with Republicans. Locking them up & torturing them, Dev in his time executed dozens of Republicans.

    The were horrible atrocities carried out in 1919-21, The counter-revolution (civil war) & the Troubles. But for me the Ballyseedy massacre rates as the worst. Tying 9 men to a mine, shooting them in the legs so they couldn't escape after, talk about barbaric. The lunatics in the middle east couldn't come up with something that deranged & it was carried out by our State & nobody has ever been punished.

    What happened to the Gardai was sad no dubt but what gives our government the right to do as they please to political opponents? Are we under Stalin rule now?


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    #1842
    WilyCoyote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,059 ✭✭✭WilyCoyote


    tdv123 wrote: »
    They've always been at war with Republicans. Locking them up & torturing them, Dev in his time executed dozens of Republicans.

    The were horrible atrocities carried out in 1919-21, The counter-revolution (civil war) & the Troubles. But for me the Ballyseedy massacre rates as the worst. Tying 9 men to a mine, shooting them in the legs so they couldn't escape after, talk about barbaric. The lunatics in the middle east couldn't come up with something that deranged & it was carried out by our State & nobody has ever been punished.

    What happened to the Gardai was sad no dubt but what gives our government the right to do as they please to political opponents? Are we under Stalin rule now?

    Probably learned from the Black&Tans. This atrocity was carried out by people of the FG way of thinking.


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    #1843
    fingal raven
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭fingal raven


    Nice to see Roy Keane and Martin O'Neill wearing poppies this evening, fair play to them.


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    #1844
    .jacksparrow.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭.jacksparrow.


    fingal raven wrote: »
    Nice to see Roy Keane and Martin O'Neill wearing poppies this evening, fair play to them.

    Can't help but think there thinking of the €€€ while wearing them, utv wouldn't accept them refusing to wear them.


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    #1845
    fingal raven
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭fingal raven


    .jacksparrow. wrote: »
    Can't help but think there thinking of the €€€ while wearing them, utv wouldn't accept them refusing to wear them.

    I don't think Roy Keane would do anything that he did not want to do !


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    #1846
    .jacksparrow.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭.jacksparrow.


    fingal raven wrote: »
    I don't think Roy Keane would do anything that he did not want to do !

    Well we never thought he would work for john Delaney in a million years!


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    #1847
    Neutronale
    Registered Users Posts: 429 ✭✭Neutronale


    Nodin wrote: »
    There's no comparison, generally speaking. An entire system set up to exterminate a specific set of groups.

    The Brits exterminated the Tasmanians, they achieved more than the Nazis.


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    #1848
    Neutronale
    Registered Users Posts: 429 ✭✭Neutronale


    .jacksparrow. wrote: »
    Can't help but think there thinking of the €€€ while wearing them, utv wouldn't accept them refusing to wear them.

    In fairness both have made a good living in England so its understandable.

    Otoh I would like to think if I was in their place I would say 'thanks, but no thanks'...but I will wear this if you like...

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f0/Metal_Easter_Lily.jpg/220px-Metal_Easter_Lily.jpg


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    #1849
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Neutronale wrote: »
    The Brits exterminated the Tasmanians, they achieved more than the Nazis.

    Well New Zealand refused to be joined to Australia in the British Empire out of a real concern for what their own native people would face; and no Im not justifying the colonization of New Zealand/Aotearoa. As evil as the British Empire was it was hypocritical-the vast majority of humans are hypocrites me included- and it largely didnt set out to say that utter barbarism and cruelty was A Okay. This is what makes the Third Reich different; it reveled in the complete overthrow of what most people would consider morality. Yes it was the eventual outcome of larger currents in western civilization that arose from its colonial phrase (Social Darwinism and Eugenics were not confined to the Nazies) but it was something more. If human supposedly given over to humane and Christian values were capable of such evil just imagine what else might have come out of the Nazi New Order which openly declared "Might is Right", etc?

    I think people honestly know there is a world of difference between your average English Tory or UKIP voter and a Neo-Nazi Skinhead.


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    #1850
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Neutronale wrote: »
    The Brits exterminated the Tasmanians, they achieved more than the Nazis.


    Yet that wasn't the expressed purpose of the camps, as I've stated before.


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    #1851
    foil23
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭foil23


    Someone way back posted a link to the 'Lethal Allies' book - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lethal-Allies-British-Collusion-Ireland/dp/1781171882 based on police files and admissions of guilt this book shows why its difficult if not impossible to wear a red poppy, it being a sign of rememberance for british military personell, part of the same apparatus that condoned, assisted and supported the murder of 120 innocent civilians in northern Ireland.

    Until the british government has a public enquiry into how they let these events happen, how they abetted though their inaction and maybe even actively supported, no self-repecting Irish man or woman should wear such a one sided symbol.


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    #1852
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Interesting read

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-do-those-who-flaunt-the-poppy-on-their-lapels-know-that-they-mock-the-war-dead-6257416.html


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    #1853
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    I agree with a lot of what Fisk says in the above^ link. It is embarassing to see so many people wearing something they have no understanding of, and which is obvioulsy supplied by a wardrobe department at the Beeb/Sky of ITV . . . 'Here love let me pin this on you before you go out there' in front of the cameras. Other celebs buy fancy poppies with little shiny bits that sparkle under the studio lights. All of the above totally misrepresent what the symbol really means and stands for. Of course there are some/many genuine wearers of the poppy, but its all gone a bit mad in recent years . . . . . . .


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    #1854
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Good to see Jeremy Paxman also coming out strongly in condemnation of the plans to commemorate/glorify WW1 next year too.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24440923

    You only have to walk into places like the commemorative Chapel in Edinburgh Castle to see that the old way of glorifying war was to build huge marble tombs thus ensuring that the next generation of cannon fodder would march happily off to a pointless sacrifice.
    Good to see that Britain's intellectuals are objecting to this, won't be long until it filters down to less informed and easily lead.


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    #1855
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Good to see Jeremy Paxman also coming out strongly in condemnation of the plans to commemorate/glorify WW1 next year too.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24440923

    You only have to walk into places like the commemorative Chapel in Edinburgh Castle to see that the old way of glorifying war was to build huge marble tombs thus ensuring that the next generation of cannon fodder would march happily off to a pointless sacrifice.
    Good to see that Britain's intellectuals are objecting to this, won't be long until it filters down to less informed and easily lead.

    I don't think that anybody supports a 'pointless' sacrifice but I don't see how either World Wars - particularly the latter - could be described as pointless. The Falklands War wasn't pointless and achieved its objectives as well as seeing the collapse of the Argentinian Junta. The 1st Gulf War was pointless as it left Saddam in power and the second was slightly less so in that he was got rid of but no proper endgame. The Afghanistan intervention is a 'pointless' sacrifice as once again there's no endgame.

    The World hasn't suddenly become a safer place and no doubt in the future British forces will be called on again, and the support of ordinary people for the Royal British Legion will still be required. That it is required is a sad reflection on politicians who wish Britain to play a role in World affairs but aren't prepared to pay for it. Anyway, buy a poppy, don't buy a poppy - it's a matter of personal choice and shouldn't be the cause of so much rancour here every year.


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    #1856
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Anyway, buy a poppy, don't buy a poppy - it's a matter of personal choice and shouldn't be the cause of so much rancour here every year.

    It's a cause of rancour because very clearly pressure is exerted on those who conscientiously don't wish to wear it in a wider excercise to glorify war.


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    #1857
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    The World hasn't suddenly become a safer place and no doubt in the future British forces will be called on again, and the support of ordinary people for the Royal British Legion will still be required. That it is required is a sad reflection on politicians who wish Britain to play a role in World affairs but aren't prepared to pay for it. Anyway, buy a poppy, don't buy a poppy - it's a matter of personal choice and shouldn't be the cause of so much rancour here every year.
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    It's a cause of rancour because very clearly pressure is exerted on those who conscientiously don't wish to wear it in a wider excercise to glorify war.

    Please name one person living in Ireland who has had pressure "exerted" on them to wear a remembrance poppy.


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    #1858
    wazky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,516 ✭✭✭wazky


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Please name one person living in Ireland who has had pressure "exerted" on them to wear a remembrance poppy.

    Why do you want to know "one person living in Ireland who has had pressure exerted on them"?, because it wasn't mentioned in the posts you quoted.


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    #1859
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    wazky wrote: »
    Why do you want to know "one person living in Ireland who has had pressure exerted on them"?, because it wasn't mentioned in the posts you quoted.

    Because he states HERE in his post and with this being an Irish forum i presume HERE to mean Ireland. Maybe he just means boards but the reason i said name one person living in Ireland is because you would swear (by some peoples reactions) that they are having poppys shoved under their noses by chuggers everytime they walk past the GPO and people knocking on their door at 10 pm asking them to donate :rolleyes:


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    #1860
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Please name one person living in Ireland who has had pressure "exerted" on them to wear a remembrance poppy.

    Me, at a remembrance service for a grandfather in-law in Dublin. I am with Robert Fisk on that, just because I attended doesn't mean I agree with the reason he died. I didn't wear it which is still the cause of some family rancour.


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    #1861
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Me, at a remembrance service for a grandfather in-law in Dublin. I am with Robert Fisk on that, just because I attended doesn't mean I agree with the reason he died. I didn't wear it which is still the cause of some family rancour.

    Funny that because i have been to many remembrance services in Dublin and never once been asked about or offered a poppy. I guess you must have gone to the one where they send the sales teams :rolleyes:


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