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Will you wear a poppy 2013?

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    #2192
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    bumper234 wrote: »
    There is a "problem" insofar as there will always be idiots, they know there is a small chance that some small "radical" element of the Muslim community may burn a poppy to illicit a response. In the same way there is a small chance that a small "radical" element of the Christian community may burn the Koran to illicit a response.

    Anjhem Chourdry and his lumpen followers are to Islam what a poster on another forum who mocks the victims of the Enniskillen bomb and RUC members committing suicide is to Irish Republicanism- i.e. cold hearted and distasteful trolls. That said there is a massive difference between not going along with his nonsense and merrily wearing Poppies while singing "God Save the Queen" and supporting "the boys". As far as the Christian community is concerned you have massive amounts of people in it particularly in Wales but also elsewhere who would be pacifists- than you have a large group of people of Irish Roman Catholic descent who while loving Britain and fully intergrated more or less are not to warm about parts of British history. The poppy is not a Christian symbol by the way.


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    #2193
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    The Muslim issue is just one part of the problem. Stop trying to railroad the debate down that line.
    What is stupid about a peaceful protest against what the poppy has come to represent by the way?
    Is Paxman stupid, Robert Fisk? The soldier who obviously spoke out in great personal emotional pain, stupid too? Those three didn't mention the Muslim aspect so don't try and hang the discussion on that. Deal with what those three said.

    3 people out of how many millions? Not everyone is going to agree on something and that's human nature.


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    #2194
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    bumper234 wrote: »
    3 people out of how many millions? Not everyone is going to agree on something and that's human nature.

    I give up. Night.


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    #2195
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Anjhem Chourdry

    If someone shot that fucker I'd buy him a pint.


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    #2196
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    The Muslim issue is just one part of the problem. Stop trying to railroad the debate down that line.
    What is stupid about a peaceful protest against what the poppy has come to represent by the way?
    Is Paxman stupid, Robert Fisk? The soldier who obviously spoke out in great personal emotional pain, stupid too? Those three didn't mention the Muslim aspect so don't try and hang the discussion on that. Deal with what those three said.

    Because they also chant "British soldiers go to hell" and the leader of this group appeared on television after Lee Rigby was murdered and stated with a smirk that he was in the hell fire and that no Muslim should feel sorry for him. Do I believe it is immoral to join the British Army? Yes I do- however these people go way to far and we should also remember that they support the terror campaign in Syria and as well as stirring up hatred of Shia Muslims.


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    #2197
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Because they also chant "British soldiers go to hell" and the leader of this group appeared on television after Lee Rigby was murdered and stated with a smirk that he was in the hell fire and that no Muslim should feel sorry for him. Do I believe it is immoral to join the British Army? Yes I do- however these people go way to far and we should also remember that they support the terror campaign in Syria and as well as stirring up hatred of Shia Muslims.

    Totally, totally agree with the above, I was referring to those who peacefully protest it, which they have a right to do.


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    #2198
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    these people go way to far

    People like Anjhem Chourdry are enemies of humanity.


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    #2199
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Because they also chant "British soldiers go to hell" and the leader of this group appeared on television after Lee Rigby was murdered and stated with a smirk that he was in the hell fire and that no Muslim should feel sorry for him. Do I believe it is immoral to join the British Army? Yes I do- however these people go way to far and we should also remember that they support the terror campaign in Syria and as well as stirring up hatred of Shia Muslims.

    Why do you believe it is immoral to join the British army?

    Does that apply to any army, or just the British?


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    #2200
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,049 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    bumper234 wrote: »
    All IRA volunteers were murdering scumbags who should all rot in hell
    no their not, their freedom fighters who had to take down the unionists little puppet state which was being propped up by the british government and army, when the army decided to turn on the catholics because they were irish and catholic these good men put their lives on the line to try stop the BA from murdering and pillaging, these freedom fighters have spaces reserved in heaven for them

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #2201
    Santa Cruz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    end of the road wrote: »
    no their not, their freedom fighters who had to take down the unionists little puppet state which was being propped up by the british government and army, when the army decided to turn on the catholics because they were irish and catholic these good men put their lives on the line to try stop the BA from murdering and pillaging, these freedom fighters have spaces reserved in heaven for them

    " these freedom fighters have spaces reserved in heaven for them "

    Not if the Muslim bombers get there first with their 78 virgins


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    #2202
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Why do you believe it is immoral to join the British army?

    Does that apply to any army, or just the British?

    I dont agree with standing armies in general; however the British Army does have a habit of getting involved in actual wars that could not be described as defensive. I would say the same about the Russian Army given their colonial war in Chechnya.


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    #2203
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Carlos Roca wrote: »
    People like Anjhem Chourdry are enemies of humanity.

    I dont understand why he gets so much media attention- its like putting forward Clifford Peeples as a representive of Protestantism in Ireland.

    He is a very dangerous man; the EDL probably would not exist if it wasnt for him.


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    #2204
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    Roy Keane was wearing one recently, half the country will have one next year as a result.


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    #2205
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    I dont agree with standing armies in general; however the British Army does have a habit of getting involved in actual wars that could not be described as defensive. I would say the same about the Russian Army given their colonial war in Chechnya.

    The Irish army have been involved in lots of wars that aren't defensive. Are they immoral?


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    #2206
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    I dont agree with standing armies in general; however the British Army does have a habit of getting involved in actual wars that could not be described as defensive. I would say the same about the Russian Army given their colonial war in Chechnya.

    So would you say it's immoral for someone to join the Irish Army?


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    #2207
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    end of the road wrote: »
    no their not, their freedom fighters who had to take down the unionists little puppet state which was being propped up by the british government and army, when the army decided to turn on the catholics because they were irish and catholic these good men put their lives on the line to try stop the BA from murdering and pillaging, these freedom fighters have spaces reserved in heaven for them

    Lol


    Just like your romantic "freedom fighters" heaven does not exist.


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    #2208
    Gee Bag
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭Gee Bag


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    The Irish army have been involved in lots of wars that aren't defensive. Are they immoral?

    Which wars are these Fred?

    P.s. peace keeping missions don't count


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    #2209
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    bumper234 wrote: »
    So would you say it's immoral for someone to join the Irish Army?

    The Irish Defense Force mainly protect money drops on banks (okay they engage in some uncontroversial UN missions, but still...).


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    #2210
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    The Irish army have been involved in lots of wars that aren't defensive. Are they immoral?

    Which?


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    #2211
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    The Irish Defense Force mainly protect money drops on banks (okay they engage in some uncontroversial UN missions, but still...).

    Is that a yes or a no?


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    #2212
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Which?

    Bosnia, Syria, the Congo, Lebanon, Afghanistan.


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    #2213
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Gee Bag wrote: »
    Which wars are these Fred?

    P.s. peace keeping missions don't count

    Well they're in Afghanistan at the moment.


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    #2214
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Is that a yes or a no?

    Its a maybe.

    Honestly its pretty hard to think of the IDF along the same terms as you would think about the BA; the BA has nuclear missiles, does the IDF even have any tanks?


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    #2215
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Bosnia, Syria, the Congo, Lebanon, Afghanistan.

    Where they actually involved in serious fighting?


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    #2216
    Gee Bag
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭Gee Bag


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Bosnia, Syria, the Congo, Lebanon, Afghanistan.
    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Well they're in Afghanistan at the moment.

    Fred,

    This is really scrapping the barrell, I'm embarassed for you. The first four are either peace-keeping missions or observor missions.

    Last I heard there were a total of seven Irish soldiers in Afghanistan working in a non-combat role.


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    #2217
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Is that a yes or a no?

    To be honest I dont know much about the IDF or its history-I grew up in Northern Ireland. I will have to do some research on the subject.


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    #2218
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    The Irish army have been involved in lots of wars that aren't defensive. Are they immoral?
    bumper234 wrote: »
    So would you say it's immoral for someone to join the Irish Army?

    Would the pair of you ever answer on the subject and quit the whataboutery.


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    #2219
    Gee Bag
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭Gee Bag


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Where they actually involved in serious fighting?

    They were involved in heavy fighting in the Congo in the 1960's.

    They also suffered a lot of casualties in the Lebanon, primarily by being shelled and land mines.


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    #2220
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Where they actually involved in serious fighting?

    Err, jadotville was pretty serious. Not sure about east Timor, but they weren't exactly giving cookery lessons in Chad.


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    #2221
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Gee Bag wrote: »
    Fred,

    This is really scrapping the barrell, I'm embarassed for you. The first four are either peace-keeping missions or observor missions.

    Last I heard there were a total of seven Irish soldiers in Afghanistan working in a non-combat role.

    Working in a non combat role because the government is shirking it's responsibilities. The Irish government was happy to support sending other countries soldiers out to fight, but not their own.

    There is no reason (other than lack of political cajones) why more Irish soldiers were not sent. Pop over to the military forum and ask their opinion.


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