Will you wear a poppy 2013?

WilyCoyote

Gee Bag wrote: »

You seriously believe this?






Fred please come back!

Oh Christ! Don't wake him FFS:)

SoulandForm

Gee Bag wrote: »

You seriously believe this?






Fred please come back!

http://bonniekristian.com/pre-war-afghanistan/

SoulandForm

And we have seen what happened in Afghanistan repeated in Libya again with the backing of the Americans.

Fratton Fred

WilyCoyote wrote: »

To add a bit of reality to the post, here is a historical extract.


In 1843 British army chaplain G.R. Gleig wrote a memoir of the disastrous (First) Anglo-Afghan War, of which he was one of the very few survivors. He wrote that it was
a war begun for no wise purpose, carried on with a strange mixture of rashness and timidity, brought to a close after suffering and disaster, without much glory attached either to the government which directed, or the great body of troops which waged it. Not one benefit, political or military, was acquired with this war. Our eventual evacuation of the country resembled the retreat of an army defeated”.[11]

Yes, something that happened 170 years ago is relevant. Bravo.

Fratton Fred

Gee Bag wrote: »

You've got me there, they were sent to butcher the natives, rape their women and steal their resources.

Or maybe it was another peace keeping mission with a mandate to protect civilians and UN staff and ensure the delivery of aid

Ash right, so the PDF would protect civilians and UN staff with their world famous sense of humour would they?

Fratton Fred

Gee Bag wrote: »

What did you expect them to do? Ye invaded their country!

Hang on? You stated that the Taliban had been vanquished when resolution 1386 had been passed? So were the Irish government right or wrong to vote in favour of it?

timthumbni

Anyway I was out last night for dinner. Out of about a group of 20 including kids all were wearing a poppy aside from 1 wee kid. (Who was afraid of pins . Lol)

An English fella (ex army) who was there said he was impressed so many were wearing them.

For the poppy haters out there, only another couple of days of pain and torture left....... Until next year when no doubt this thread will get another 3000 or so posts.

It's almost laughable just how anti British some on here are. Especially when most of them are obviously from the republic and have just read a few too many Sinn Fein propaganda, sorry election pamphlets. I mean in the republic how likely are you to see a poppy to be offended anyway? If you were in Northern Ireland your wee heads would explode.

Just like some apparently found the London Olympic ceremony offensive (lol) I would say get a life. I would also point out for those easily offended that the ceremony was directed by none other than Danny Boyle. In case the name doesn't give it away his parents were from Galway and in a bit on tv he was having a pint in his local Irish club in Northern England.

MonstaMash

timthumbni wrote: »

It's almost laughable just how anti British some on here are. Especially when most of them are obviously from the republic and have just read a few too many Sinn Fein propaganda, sorry election pamphlets.

It's almost laughable how naive you pro-British are regarding Irish sensitivities towards the British establishment, not the British people mind you, considering the tyrannies perpetrated upon our race in the name of 'Rule Britannia'

You don't need to ally yourself with Sinn Féin to propagate this sentiment, all you have to do is open a history book :rolleyes:

LordSutch

...and see how many Irish men died in the two World Wars.

Think Aviva stadion (50.000 capacity) and you will get an idea of haw many Irish men died in WWI.

bumper234

All of the talk of Aghanistan and Taliban yet not one Irish person has mentioned the Irish part in the invasion and bombing of Afghanistan, No one mentions the part Ireland played in the kidnap and torture of innocent people. No one mentions the fact that hundreds of thousands of troops have passed through Shannon airport (with the express permission of the Irish government) to take part in these invasions....hypocritical to say the least.

bumper234

MonstaMash wrote: »

It's almost laughable how naive you pro-British are regarding Irish sensitivities towards the British establishment, not the British people mind you, considering the tyrannies perpetrated upon our race in the name of 'Rule Britannia'

You don't need to ally yourself with Sinn Féin to propagate this sentiment, all you have to do is open a history book :rolleyes:

You mean white people?

MonstaMash

LordSutch wrote: »

...and see how many Irish men died in the two World Wars :rolleyes:

Think Aviva stadion (50.000 capacity) and you will get an idea of haw many Irish men died in WWI.

I am well aware of the losses...my grandmother on my mothers side had 6 brothers & no other siblings...3 of them died in Ypres, 1 in Passchendale & 2 in Suvla Bay...all were dedicated Irish nationalists that joined up & fought for 'the enemy', due to Redmond's false promise of home rule.

timthumbni

MonstaMash wrote: »

It's almost laughable how naive you pro-British are regarding Irish sensitivities towards the British establishment, not the British people mind you, considering the tyrannies perpetrated upon our race in the name of 'Rule Britannia'

You don't need to ally yourself with Sinn Féin to propagate this sentiment, all you have to do is open a history book :rolleyes:

The British "establishment"???? Lol. This isn't an xfiles episode and not everything is some great conspiracy against the Irish you know. You flatter yourself far too much.

Anyway I'm not simply pro British as you put it. I am British. (Though personally I refer to myself as being Northern Irish first)

MonstaMash

bumper234 wrote: »

You mean white people?

Green wogs I think we were referred to as, by the Sássanach

MonstaMash

timthumbni wrote: »

The British "establishment"???? Lol. This isn't an xfiles episode and not everything is some great conspiracy against the Irish you know. You flatter yourself far too much.

Anyway I'm not simply pro British as you put it. I am British. (Though personally I refer to myself as being Northern Irish first)

The powers that be, if you will, the establishment that makes the decisions us ordinary citizens, British or Irish, have to abide by...

You are British & I am Irish...Mazel tov

timthumbni

LordSutch wrote: »

...and see how many Irish men died in the two World Wars.

Think Aviva stadion (50.000 capacity) and you will get an idea of haw many Irish men died in WWI.

Interesting few pieces in utv live tonight this week on the veterans from here that served in Korea. They went over to South Korea this year and were treated like royalty.

I have to admitt I know little about that war and when I watched mash when I was younger I assumed it was set in Vietnam. Suicide is painless. Now that was some song to attach to a tv series.

Fratton Fred

bumper234 wrote: »

All of the talk of Aghanistan and Taliban yet not one Irish person has mentioned the Irish part in the invasion and bombing of Afghanistan, No one mentions the part Ireland played in the kidnap and torture of innocent people. No one mentions the fact that hundreds of thousands of troops have passed through Shannon airport (with the express permission of the Irish government) to take part in these invasions....hypocritical to say the least.

Yes, but closing your eyes to it and claiming to be morally superior to everyone else makes the problem go away.

Similar to aabortion, easier to bury your head in the sand and dump the problem on someone else than grow a pair of balls and tackle the issue head on. It's what Irish governments have been doing since 1922.

MonstaMash

Morning Fred, how's you today?

MonstaMash

Fantastic documentaries on Discovery Channel this weekend, was watching one this morning...

Brave men one & all, the conditions those men endured was worse than I imagine Dante's 7th level of hell was!

SoulandForm

timthumbni wrote: »

The British "establishment"???? Lol. This isn't an xfiles episode and not everything is some great conspiracy against the Irish you know. You flatter yourself far too much.

Anyway I'm not simply pro British as you put it. I am British. (Though personally I refer to myself as being Northern Irish first)

The idea that there is a British establishment/elite you find eccentric?

Oh my!

You should watch this (BBC 2 and not Prison Planet);

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

old hippy wrote: »

It's that time of year again where mass debates ensue over paper flowers, pensioners, prisoners of war, the struggle, lillies et al. I noticed the first advert this morning at the bus stop today.

Will you be sporting one?

No. It's a symbol of war and imperialism.

bumper234

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

No. It's a symbol of war and imperialism.

For some

SoulandForm

bumper234 wrote: »

All of the talk of Aghanistan and Taliban yet not one Irish person has mentioned the Irish part in the invasion and bombing of Afghanistan, No one mentions the part Ireland played in the kidnap and torture of innocent people. No one mentions the fact that hundreds of thousands of troops have passed through Shannon airport (with the express permission of the Irish government) to take part in these invasions....hypocritical to say the least.

Fair point-I started a thread a while back asking if it should be illegal for Irish people to serve in foreign armies and it didnt get that much attention however if I had titled it should it be illegal for Irish people to join the British Army it probably would have gone on for pages. That said just because people are being short sighted and/or hypocritical doesnt mean that the valid arguments they do have are any less valid.

Happyman42

It really is a sign of arrogance that there are those who can't see that this stolen, misappropiated symbol of false pride would cause problems wherever the BA shamed themselves. For every story of the good this army did there are 10 about the bad.

I was watching a repeat of Question Time last night, which incidentally dealt almost entirely with questions and problems about race relations in Britain (which some here would try to pretend don't exist in a vain glorious attempt to defend wearing the poopy) and it really was ridiculous to see the size that these things have become, Nigel Farage was nearly toppling forward with his.

What once was a quiet and dignified American symbol of remembrance has been, and is more and more being, misappropriated to stand for the dying days of British imperialism and false national pride, as they still trample across others countries they are not wanted in, as the lapdogs to nations that have long eclipsed them.
Shame on those who involve themselves in 'poppy fascism', it has nothing whatsoever to do with 'remembrance' but more to do with 'regret' for end of empire.

Neutronale

Happyman42 wrote: »

It really is a sign of arrogance that there are those who can't see that this stolen, misappropiated symbol of false pride would cause problems wherever the BA shamed themselves. For every story of the good this army did there are 10 about the bad.

I was watching a repeat of Question Time last night, which incidentally dealt almost entirely with questions and problems about race relations in Britain (which some here would try to pretend don't exist in a vain glorious attempt to defend wearing the poopy) and it really was ridiculous to see the size that these things have become, Nigel Farage was nearly toppling forward with his.

What once was a quiet and dignified American symbol of remembrance has been, and is more and more being, misappropriated to stand for the dying days of British imperialism and false national pride, as they still trample across others countries they are not wanted in, as the lapdogs to nations that have long eclipsed them.
Shame on those who involve themselves in 'poppy fascism', it has nothing whatsoever to do with 'remembrance' but more to do with 'regret' for end of empire.

Great post, you said it all

timthumbni

Happyman42 wrote: »

It really is a sign of arrogance that there are those who can't see that this stolen, misappropiated symbol of false pride would cause problems wherever the BA shamed themselves. For every story of the good this army did there are 10 about the bad.

I was watching a repeat of Question Time last night, which incidentally dealt almost entirely with questions and problems about race relations in Britain (which some here would try to pretend don't exist in a vain glorious attempt to defend wearing the poopy) and it really was ridiculous to see the size that these things have become, Nigel Farage was nearly toppling forward with his.

What once was a quiet and dignified American symbol of remembrance has been, and is more and more being, misappropriated to stand for the dying days of British imperialism and false national pride, as they still trample across others countries they are not wanted in, as the lapdogs to nations that have long eclipsed them.
Shame on those who involve themselves in 'poppy fascism', it has nothing whatsoever to do with 'remembrance' but more to do with 'regret' for end of empire.

I bet you love eating raw lemons happyman. The poppy has nothing to do with regret for the end of empire. Jaysus that's simply stupid. Though from someone who is apparently offended by an Olympic ceremony simply because it was British I shouldn't be surprised.

You think when I wore mine last night that I was saying I regret the end of the British empire. I don't think you really believe that at all if you are honest with yourself. Even that wee shinner mla from tyrone mcelduff would probably pause before coming out with that sort of nonsense. And that's saying something.

citytillidie

LordSutch wrote: »

...and see how many Irish men died in the two World Wars.

Think Aviva stadion (50.000 capacity) and you will get an idea of haw many Irish men died in WWI.

Yes we know how many Irish men died in the wars and if the poppies were to just mean remembrance for them no bother. I would never wear a poppy because I have family I have never met because of 1st para actions in Derry

Fratton Fred

Happyman42 wrote: »

It really is a sign of arrogance that there are those who can't see that this stolen, misappropiated symbol of false pride would cause problems wherever the BA shamed themselves. For every story of the good this army did there are 10 about the bad.

I was watching a repeat of Question Time last night, which incidentally dealt almost entirely with questions and problems about race relations in Britain (which some here would try to pretend don't exist in a vain glorious attempt to defend wearing the poopy) and it really was ridiculous to see the size that these things have become, Nigel Farage was nearly toppling forward with his.

What once was a quiet and dignified American symbol of remembrance has been, and is more and more being, misappropriated to stand for the dying days of British imperialism and false national pride, as they still trample across others countries they are not wanted in, as the lapdogs to nations that have long eclipsed them.
Shame on those who involve themselves in 'poppy fascism', it has nothing whatsoever to do with 'remembrance' but more to do with 'regret' for end of empire.

That chip is becoming an obsession.

Happyman42

timthumbni wrote: »

I bet you love eating raw lemons happyman. The poppy has nothing to do with regret for the end of empire. Jaysus that's simply stupid. Though from someone who is apparently offended by an Olympic ceremony simply because it was British I shouldn't be surprised.

The comparison between what the Chinese opening ceremony and the British one tried to achieve is relevant imo. Curious that those two nations undertook to give us a history of their 'great' nations.
There was no need to display negativity, it was a celebration (that I attended incidentally) after all, but to undertake a 'glorious' history of Britain was always going to lead to criticism. What Danny Boyle's nationality or ancestory has to do with it, I don't know.
Any bets we will be treated to the same lavish 'forgetfulness' come the WW1 centenary celebrations?

You think when I wore mine last night that I was saying I regret the end of the British empire. I don't think you really believe that at all if you are honest with yourself.

Do I think people can be part of something that they don't know the wider signifigance of; absolutely. History is littered with it.


p.s. any comment on the size these things have become, the RBL one seems to be small but obviously people like Nigel Farage are getting bigger ones from somewhere. Do they increase in size the more right wing you are? What size are the EDL ones?

timthumbni

Happyman42 wrote: »

The comparison between what the Chinese opening ceremony and the British one tried to achieve is relevant imo. Curious that those two nations undertook to give us a history of their 'great' nations.
There was no need to display negativity, it was a celebration (that I attended incidentally) after all, but to undertake a 'glorious' history of Britain was always going to lead to criticism. What Danny Boyle's nationality or ancestory has to do with it, I don't know.

Yes. As I said earlier some sour puss types will whinge and moan no matter the occasion. I'm actually trying to think what in this ceremony so offended you anyway. Was it because Belfast protestant Shakespeare ken was the lead actor. Those billy plays from the 80s weren't real you know


Do I think people can be part of something that they don't know the wider signifigance of; absolutely. History is littered with it.

Yeah but you don't know the significance of the poppy yourself, if you think it has anything to do with the regret at the end of the British Empire. You should contact the guardian. They love that sort of tosh.


p.s. any comment on the size these things have become, the RBL one seems to be small but obviously people like Nigel Farage are getting bigger ones from somewhere. Do they increase in size the more right wing you are? What size are the EDL ones?

I didn't see the farage poppy. Though I don't really see why poppy size should concern anyone tbh. Has poppy size got anything to do with being right wing? In your head possibly yes...

I wear the wee poppy badges about the size of a thumbnail. So you would have to be quite close to even see it. The normal paper poppy I normally only wear on Remembrance Day itself as they fall off or get damaged very easily. I saw a girl wearing a sparkly one last night. I know some who don't like these but tbh I think they are fine.