Will you wear a poppy 2013?

Happyman42

Fratton Fred wrote: »

But you haven't done any analysis. You've read two articles and then started giving your own prejudiced opinion.

I have acknowledged that the 'poppy' is a quiet and dignified symbol of remembrance that I have no problem with.
I have with others attempted to have a discussion about the growing hijacking of it, that you acknowledge makes you leave your poppy in a drawer.
Until bumper got banned you where riding shotgun to his jingoism, his baiting and his bias. And I am the one with 'prejudiced opinion'?
Very good Fred, like the poppy fascists, you may be fooling yourself, but honestly, that is where it stops.

Fratton Fred

Happyman42 wrote: »

I have acknowledged that the 'poppy' is a quiet and dignified symbol of remembrance that I have no problem with.
I have with others attempted to have a discussion about the growing hijacking of it, that you acknowledge makes you leave your poppy in a drawer.
Until bumper got banned you where riding shotgun to his jingoism, his baiting and his bias. And I am the one with 'prejudiced opinion'?
Very good Fred, like the poppy fascists, you may be fooling yourself, but honestly, that is where it stops.

I wear mine on the 11th and the second Sunday and the days in between, as do most people. I'm not comfortable with people being forced to wear one three weeks early because they are going on tv.

I'm not happy with far right groups using the poppy to portray their brand of bigotry, but we wrestled the English and union flags back off those guys and we'll do the same with the poppy.

Meanwhile, you are looking for examples of jingoism, which simply aren't there.

SEPT 23 1989

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqiyQhbEZpw

Beefy78

So that's that done then. Same time next year?

Crooked Jack

LordSutch wrote: »

Theye've been talking about a green Irish poppy for decades, but nothing has ever come of it!

This is just cringeworthy, as if the colour is the problem people have with it. Sure make it green, the paddies love anything green. ugh!

Wompa1

Crooked Jack wrote: »

This is just cringeworthy, as if the colour is the problem people have with it. Sure make it green, the paddies love anything green. ugh!

Presumably the green would be to distinguis that it's rememberance and respect shown for the Irish soldiers specifically, What's wrong with that?

mathepac

Happyman42 wrote: »

I have acknowledged that the 'poppy' is a quiet and dignified symbol of remembrance that I have no problem with. ...

And I'd have no problem with it if that was all it was.

The reality is that it's a means of raising money for the Royal British Legion, a charity which looks after former British servicemen and women by providing them with social clubs and heavily subsidised alcohol, amongst other things.

Given that these men and women served the sovereign and their country, why can't the sovereign and her government dip into their own pockets and look after these these former military types who were used to implement their policies?

ChicagoJoe

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I wear mine on the 11th and the second Sunday and the days in between, as do most people. I'm not comfortable with people being forced to wear one three weeks early because they are going on tv.

I'm not happy with far right groups using the poppy to portray their brand of bigotry, but we wrestled the English and union flags back off those guys and we'll do the same with the poppy.

Meanwhile, you are looking for examples of jingoism, which simply aren't there.

From what I seen on TV yesterday, it's little more than jingoism of a country that tries to pretend it's still a world power. Sad

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/8180709/WikiLeaks-Britain-mocked-by-US-over-special-relationship.html

Fratton Fred

ChicagoJoe wrote: »

From what I seen on TV yesterday, it's little more than jingoism of a country that tries to pretend it's still a world power. Sad

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/8180709/WikiLeaks-Britain-mocked-by-US-over-special-relationship.html

Really? Tell me what you seen that gave you that impression?

Beefy78

mathepac wrote: »

And I'd have no problem with it if that was all it was.

The reality is that it's a means of raising money for the Royal British Legion, a charity which looks after former British servicemen and women by providing them with social clubs and heavily subsidised alcohol, amongst other things.

Given that these men and women served the sovereign and their country, why can't the sovereign and her government dip into their own pockets and look after these these former military types who were used to implement their policies?

Indeed they should. And it is the fact that they don't which leads myself and millions of other British people to want to support this charity.

mathepac

Not a good enough reason IMO. Why don't these former army, navy, air force members and their serving colleagues agitate for a better deal from Lizzie & Co? Vote in candidates to represent them and their families to get what's due to them post-service rather than have to rely on various charities, loudly supported by their sovereign and her family to avoid having to part with their own cash.

Insurance I know about but don't squaddies have to pay the premium themselves out their active service allowances?

Fratton Fred

mathepac wrote: »

Not a good enough reason IMO. Why don't these former army, navy, air force members and their serving colleagues agitate for a better deal from Lizzie & Co? Vote in candidates to represent them and their families to get what's due to them post-service rather than have to rely on various charities, loudly supported by their sovereign and her family to avoid having to part with their own cash.
?

You have a valid point, but you put it in such a snide way, it detracts from what you are trying say. You know as well as I do that HRH doesn't have a say in the matter and it has nothing to do with her parting with her cash.

A lot of the funds from recent bank fines has been diverted to help ex services personnel and their families, so a lot is being done, but it is too little and too recent. There are still plenty of ex WWII pensioners Livingstone who need support as well.

Happyman42

Fratton Fred wrote: »

You have a valid point, but you put it in such a snide way, it detracts from what you are trying say. You know as well as I do that HRH doesn't have a say in the matter and it has nothing to do with her parting with her cash.

A lot of the funds from recent bank fines has been diverted to help ex services personnel and their families, so a lot is being done, but it is too little and too recent. There are still plenty of ex WWII pensioners Livingstone who need support as well.

Maybe they should stop getting involved where it doesn't concern them?

Like we had to learn...if you can't afford it, stop.

Fratton Fred

Happyman42 wrote: »

Maybe they should stop getting involved where it doesn't concern them?

Like we had to learn...if you can't afford it, stop.

Concern who? What are you on about?

Happyman42

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Concern who? What are you on about?

Maybe they should think twice about riding shotgun on America's oil security missions?

Beefy78

Happyman42 wrote: »

Maybe they should think twice about riding shotgun on America's oil security missions?

What does that have to do with the Poppy?

Most Brits would be able to separate their willingness to support the troops and veterans from their reluctance to support some of the recent military campaigns themselves.

Fratton Fred

Happyman42 wrote: »

Maybe they should think twice about riding shotgun on America's oil security missions?

Oil in Afghanistan? Sierra Leone? East Timor? Kosovo? Bosnia?

News to me.

mathepac

Fratton Fred wrote: »

You have a valid point, ...l.

"I know, Basil, I know" sez me in my best Prunella Scales accent.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

... but you put it in such a snide way, it detracts from what you are trying say. . ..l.

Jeeze I dunno maite, you've understood it, innit.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

... You know as well as I do that HRH doesn't have a say in the matter and it has nothing to do with her parting with her cash. ..l.

And there was I an' I after thinkin' that her german-ness was the commander-in-chief of all them soldier boys an' girls an' that mere motals like Cammy, Cleggy & Co (or should that be Clammy Keggy & Co?) had to get the tube to Marble Arch to ask her approval to send her soldiers off to war? They no longer swear an oath of allegience then it seems. Ah well, we live an' we learn as the bishop said to the actress.

If a few radicals got into parliament they might cut the german refugees' cash allocation from the public purse or even tax their earnings from ground rents and tenant farmers and redirect it appropriately.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

... A lot of the funds from recent bank fines has been diverted to help ex services personnel and their families, so a lot is being done, but it is too little and too recent. There are still plenty of ex WWII pensioners Livingstone who need support as well.

I'd have hoped they'd have used that to help struggling mortgage holders as well, the ones the banks stole from.

Apropos of nothing in particular, I used to meet and greet with the soldiers guarding the Bank of England. The night-shift would be going off watch in their lorries out the back door of the Bank of England, while I was starting my day's work in the National Westminster Bank on Lothbury.

"Oi, Paddy, any chance of a few samples fivers then, eh?"

"**** off Jock/Tommy/Taffy, you took the queen's shilling. That's your lot until they kick you out or shoot you."

and similar light-hearted banter.

Fratton Fred

mathepac wrote: »

"I know, Basil, I know" sez me in my best Prunella Scales accent.
Jeeze I dunno maite, you've understood it, innit.
And there was I an' I after thinkin' that her german-ness was the commander-in-chief of all them soldier boys an' girls an' that mere motals like Cammy, Cleggy & Co (or should that be Clammy Keggy & Co?) had to get the tube to Marble Arch to ask her approval to send her soldiers off to war? They no longer swear an oath of allegience then it seems. Ah well, we live an' we learn as the bishop said to the actress.

If a few radicals got into parliament they might cut the german refugees' cash allocation from the public purse or even tax their earnings from ground rents and tenant farmers and redirect it appropriately.I'd have hoped they'd have used that to help struggling mortgage holders as well, the ones the banks stole from.

Apropos of nothing in particular, I used to meet and greet with the soldiers guarding the Bank of England. The night-shift would be going off watch in their lorries out the back door of the Bank of England, while I was starting my day's work in the National Westminster Bank on Lothbury.

"Oi, Paddy, any chance of a few samples fivers then, eh?"

"**** off Jock/Tommy/Taffy, you took the queen's shilling. That's your lot until they kick you out or shoot you."

and similar light-hearted banter.

Any chance of writing that in the Queen's English?

mathepac

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Any chance of writing that in the Queen's English?

I dunno maite, my post demonstrates an excellent insight into Provincial english, just like she is spoke, that is reputedly the new posh. The BBC positively reverberates with the stuff.

Only foreigners like Boris the Buffoon speak oldskool, like

Donkey Oaty

mathepac wrote: »

had to get the tube to Marble Arch to ask her approval to send her soldiers off to war?

Attention any passing tourists: ignore that post.

Victoria, St James's and Green Park are much closer to Buckingham Palace.

Marble Arch is good for Speaker's Corner though.

Fratton Fred

mathepac wrote: »

I dunno maite, my post demonstrates an excellent insight into Provincial english, just like she is spoke, that is reputedly the new posh. The BBC positively reverberates with the stuff.

Only foreigners like Boris the Buffoon speak oldskool, like

Aah roight, sorry bud, I taught dis was just you being funny so.

mathepac

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Attention any passing tourists: ignore that post.

Victoria, St James's and Green Park are much closer to Buckingham Palace.

Marble Arch is good for Speaker's Corner though.

But it's the scenic / touristy route:) Look left down towards Shoppington Way, look right up towards Bayswater road, Nottin' 'ill Gaite, etc. and as always, look behind you!!

LordSutch

Hilly Bill wrote: »

The countdown is on to the " Will you wear a poppy 2014?" Thread.

Indeed next year will be a big year as commemorations go, as it marks the centenary of the outbreak of hostilities in the Great War 1914-1918, when two hundred thousand 'approx' Irish men left these shores to fight with the allies against Kaiser Wilhelm.

Sunnyisland

On RTE 1 on nationwide now the programme is about Irishmen who died in the WW 1/2, I am sure you will get on rte player if intrested.

Sligo Quay

Remembrance day in July was surpose to kill off this debate once and for all, then we don't have to wear an Easter Lily or a Poppy.
The Poppy has be hijacked by the Loyalists extremists and the Easter Lily has been hijacked by Irish Republican extremists.
I don't wear ether, July Remembrance Day should have put all this nonsense to rest.

LOSTfan57

Thank **** this is over another year I guess

Karl Stein

My condolences to anyone who lost a relative in either of the World Wars.

May they RIP.

donvito99

Great grand father on one side fought in the rising, the other in North Africa, WWII I believe.

I'd be more inclined to wear a poppy as it goes to a good cause.

Fratton Fred

Carlos Roca wrote: »

My condolences to anyone who lost a relative in either of the World Wars.

May they RIP.

My local church gave out a leaflet on Sunday that gave details of the people behind the names on the war memorial.

Two poignant names I thought were Thomas and Douglas Bethune.

The two twins lied about their ages and joined the army at sixteen. One died in May 1915 and the other in July 1916. In the space of 14 months, Mr and Mrs Bethune lost their twin sons at 16 and 18 years of age.

Another man mentioned in the leaflet is Father William Doyle.Fr Doyle served with the 16th Irish division for two years and was mentioned in dispatches and awarded the military cross for bravery.

Willie Doyle was killed at Passchendale in August 1917 and nominated for (but not awarded) a posthumous Victoria Cross. Because Fr Doyle was not Anglican he, like other non Anglicans in the parish, is not remembered on the war memorial. Therefore this hero has no memorial in Ireland.

I thought people might be interested in this. The personal stories often make the horror of the great war a bit more "real".