Property websites manipulating the housing market.

pwurple

Need4House wrote: »

Could it be the EA's dont want to negotiate on price because the same EA's are in the lettings business also..

Or could it be that they are acting under direction of their clients and customers? I'd be fairly pissed off as a seller if the EA didn't put up a fight for a higher sale price.

Need4House

D3PO wrote: »

Id disagree, the capital gains are an additional bonus. A 5% return in a market with 1% inflation is not an utter joke, you have to reflect the return against the current environment.

Of course you can get better returns in other ways but a large part of investment is diversification of your portfolio and bricks and mortar are part of that. I challenge you to show me any properties available right now where a 10% yield is available right now ?

Id say they are far and few between if you can even find any.

This is what im talking about...why should a landlord expect anything other than breaking even at this point in time? Im not making 5%...I aint getting a wage increase, to meet your 5%. See basic understanding of BASIC economics, It's missing here isnt it. No common sense, just blind greed. If you want to make a profit, go and invest in a country that is currently on the up...it isn't Ireland..or does that really need to be rammed home to some people. You cant squeeze blood from a stone..but evidently the Irish landlords think they can, well if you squeeze a stone that hard you will get blood but it will be your own.

D3PO

Need4House wrote: »

I dont even want to live here..its due to the kid being in school, who doesn't want to move school...otherwise id have been off long ago..and that's my point..the free agents who are not bound by families, .

Are you a parent or your children's friend ?

Sometimes parents have to make hard decisions based on the best their for the family as a collective. If that means their child is upset at leaving their school and friends that's unfortunate but its not an overwhelming reason to get attached to an area and get trapped so to speak.

Your the parent, its your job to make tough decisions.

D3PO

Need4House wrote: »

This is what im talking about...why should a landlord expect anything other than breaking even at this point in time? Im not making 5%...I aint getting a wage increase, to meet your 5%. See basic understanding of BASIC economics, It's missing here isnt it. No common sense, just blind greed. If you want to make a profit, go and invest in a country that is currently on the up...it isn't Ireland..or does that really need to be rammed home to some people. You cant squeeze blood from a stone..but evidently the Irish landlords think they can, well if you squeeze a stone that hard you will get blood but it will be your own.

Your not getting a wage increase why do you think you are the collective ? SCD is an in demand area somebody who earns more or is getting these wage increases will replace you in the blink of an eye.

Your flawed thinking is that you believe that you should be able to rent / own in one of the most sought after areas of the country. Its expensive and sought after because the general demographic of people that live there are professionals who are not the average joe with the average salary.

as for squeezing blood from a stone. That LL will have no problem renting out the property if you move out, don't think they are reliant on you they aren't.

But if your concerned about the price of rent in the area you can probably rent somewhere for 10-20% less in Dundrum only 7-8 mins from where you are .....

Sought after areas require a premium to be paid because they are sought after.... So either pay it or move, the basis of your rant is nonsensical.

Need4House

pwurple wrote: »

Or could it be that they are acting under direction of their clients and customers? I'd be fairly pissed off as a seller if the EA didn't put up a fight for a higher sale price.

Yes...but that isnt what Im talking about..Im talking about houses up at 220 one week..then a moth later same house up at 270 and then a couple of months later same house at 295..when all the while everytime you call about the house..its sold.

Not just that but you call a house at 270..for instance and the EA tells you they are getting offers at 300 and over...and once again two months later its still on the market at 270.

Bearing in mind...people are not getting mortgages ion most cases. Also bearing in mind the index shows a continual drop in SALE prices.

See, its fun and games messing people about, thats what these EA's are all about., they don't care if they grind the market to a hold, because they are also fleecing people in the rental market.

Like I said all this is done to artificially manipulate the market. No way should they be getting away with it but they do mainly because the government and NAMA it at the same business. Where are all those NAMA properties we were promised would flood the market???? When were told there is a shortage of supply??? NAMA are renting those properties out...in on the same rental racket..but whats worse we own the NAMA properties as the tax payer paid for the bank bail out. Now we have the luxury of renting at extortionate rates too.

Need4House

D3PO wrote: »

Your not getting a wage increase why do you think you are the collective ? SCD is an in demand area somebody who earns more or is getting these wage increases will replace you in the blink of an eye.

Your flawed thinking is that you believe that you should be able to rent / own in one of the most sought after areas of the country. Its expensive and sought after because the general demographic of people that live there are professionals who are not the average joe with the average salary.

as for squeezing blood from a stone. That LL will have no problem renting out the property if you move out, don't think they are reliant on you they aren't.

But if your concerned about the price of rent in the area you can probably rent somewhere for 10-20% less in Dundrum only 7-8 mins from where you are .....

Sought after areas require a premium to be paid because they are sought after.... So either pay it or move, the basis of your rant is nonsensical.

Are you a landlord by any chance?
Like I said my logic is sound..SD is only sought after if there are the opportunities here. And there are not, not anything like there were. People would not be continually leaving otherwise..and by the way plently of people are walking out on careers to go to nothing in Australia and Canada..a risky move, but from the ones Ive spoken to, the general opinion is that it is no longer worth working here as they cant get a foot on the property ladder and are sick of p155ing in the wind throwing money away to landlords. They would rather take their savings and have fun in the sun.

D3PO

PS. Id hate to know what you think of greedy companies like Veolia or Dublin Bus whos fares are due to go up 10%

But your not getting a 10% pay rise how grossly unfair of them to do it ......

D3PO

Need4House wrote: »

Bearing in mind...people are not getting mortgages ion most cases. Also bearing in mind the index shows a continual drop in SALE prices.

.

FACEPALM.

Sale prices in SCD are not dropping. Care to link us some data to your completely wrong claim.

As trust me a lot of people are getting mortgages and a lot of people have approval for the prices of houses in the very area(s) your looking at.

D3PO

Need4House wrote: »

Are you a landlord by any chance? or is it an estate or lettings agent?

No not a LL and I hate EA's I think they are lying cheating scumbags, doesn't mean I have to grab a pitchfork and automatically feel that market is being manipulated though.

Need4House

D3PO wrote: »

FACEPALM.

Sale prices in SCD are not dropping. Care to link us some data to your completely wrong claim.

As trust me a lot of people are getting mortgages and a lot of people have approval for the prices of houses in the very area(s) your looking at.

FACEPALM...how old are you 15?
You show your intellect with your expression.
Oh and no...I dont trust you..I dont need to as i can see things with my own eyes to know different.

ted1

What index are you looking at?

All reports I see highlight The area as increasing they actual make the point. That it's the best performing area

D3PO

Need4House wrote: »

FACEPALM...how old are you 15?
You show your intellect with your expression.
Oh and no...I dont trust you..I dont need to as i can see things with my own eyes to know different.

Unless your own eyes became an index that contradicts everything else there not very relevant.

Perhaps its the red mist that's evident in your opening rant preventing your very eyes from seeing the reality ?

Need4House

D3PO wrote: »

No not a LL and I hate EA's I think they are lying cheating scumbags, doesn't mean I have to grab a pitchfork and automatically feel that market is being manipulated though.

No market manipulation you say...
well explain why the same houses are up for over a year on the same sites...when you call they are always gone...always.
explain how that isnt manipulating the market. They cant shift most of these houses in the 3-400 price range as people are not getting approved for mortgages past 200K. thats why they are up for over a year but supposedly always sold...but only when you call up.
Like I said the same EA's are making out people are paying over the odds and bidding wars...standard lies in EA business...all done to drive up prices in a booming market..sly and underhanded but understandable in a booming market...idiotic and counter productive in a stagnant or falling market..that's what im talking about.
The priority for any EA with a brain would be to get the market moving again by selling at reasonable, realistic and achievable prices..but if the same homes are up for over a year with fluctuating prices..it says it all...they are not shifting them.

wexie

Need4House wrote: »

FACEPALM...how old are you 15?
You show your intellect with your expression.
Oh and no...I dont trust you..I dont need to as i can see things with my own eyes to know different.

You should go see an optician.

Prices in areas of SCD are increasing, as are cash sales.

As other people have already pointed out several times, there's no point ranting and raving here. The simple fact is that there are still plenty of people in Dublin who have good (rising) incomes and combined with a lack of new builds in SCD this is causing prices to rise again.

miezekatze

OP, I bought a house not too far from your area a bit over a month ago, so I have also been tracking price movements in several areas in South Dublin. I'm not sure why you would say that prices are going down, because they are just not. There is still a lot of demand in the area, and there are first time buyers that get mortgage approval - I did! When I started looking I was a bit delusional about what kind of house I'd be able to afford. What I ended up buying is a good bit smaller and further from the city than what I intended to buy, you just need to be realistic about what you can afford. There are plenty of open viewings each weekend, go to those to get a feel for what you can afford. Track the houses you view to see what they actually sell for in the end. This is a long process though, but it helped me. It's true that there are some houses that seem to be constantly up for sale for increasing prices, but those are obviously not really for sale, it's probably just someone trying to please the banks.

Need4House

ted1 wrote: »

What index are you looking at?

All reports I see highlight The area as increasing they actual make the point. That it's the best performing area

How about you do a general internet search then on Irish property prices for south Dub...they are down..
Also I question who runs Daft, Myhome etc...im assuming its the EA's as the sites all have the ring of BS about them IMO.

josip

Need4House wrote: »

I dont even want to live here..its due to the kid being in school

"the kid"? Is it your kid? If it is, then when don't you say "my kid"?
If it's not your kid, then it's possible that some overly vigilant neighbour might report you to the gardai.

lima wrote: »

I completely understand how you feel, ... The country does not care one bit about the future generations. ... just do what you can to make as much money from the place, milk it dry, take as much as you can and use it to support your family. ....

empathy, then an inter-post contradiction, followed by an intra-post contradiction.

Need4House wrote: »

Well at least someone sees reality.

fails to spot inter-post contradiction.

There is no bubble. A bubble cannot arise without loose credit [McWilliams et al, 2004, 2005, ad infinitum, ad nauseum] At the moment, people with cash are prepared to pay the price being sought by the market.

D3PO

Need4House wrote: »

No market manipulation you say...
well explain why the same houses are up for over a year on the same sites...when you call they are always gone...always.

There is plenty of window dressing going on. There are houses for "sale" out there that really aren't for sale. Its no more than an exercise to keep the banks at bay for some people by "attempting to sell" their property

explain how that isnt manipulating the market.

This is nothing to do with manipulating the market. This is just some people fighting for self survival. I don't condone it but it doesn't manipulate the market.

They cant shift most of these houses in the 3-400 price range as people are not getting approved for mortgages past 200K.

That's a load of horsecrap. Plenty and I mean plenty of people are getting approved for far more than 200k. My brother just went sale agreed recently for well over 400k with a mortgage of 385k how did he manage that well he and his wife earn significantly more than the average joe, and most people buying in SCD fall into the same category.

The priority for any EA with a brain would be to get the market moving again by selling at reasonable, realistic and achievable prices..but if the same homes are up for over a year with fluctuating prices..it says it all...they are not shifting them.

EA's don't set the prices sellers do. As for not shifting houses your right but ask yourself are these houses really for sale ......

.

pwurple

Need4House wrote: »

Yes...but that isnt what Im talking about..Im talking about houses up at 220 one week..then a moth later same house up at 270 and then a couple of months later same house at 295..when all the while everytime you call about the house..its sold.

Having bought and sold in the last year I can tell you that a house I was sale agreed on fell through after our engineers report, and went on again a few months later with the issue resolved. We had bought elsewhere in that time. We were sale agreed 3 times on our own when we were selling it, it was relisted several times, due to people not getting their expected mortgage, or circumstances changing (buyer moving job area etc).

Not just that but you call a house at 270..for instance and the EA tells you they are getting offers at 300 and over...and once again two months later its still on the market at 270.

Sales can take several months to complete. I've heard up to a year. You'll see it in several threads here.

Bearing in mind...people are not getting mortgages ion most cases.

Got one myself. Brother got one. Several friends got one. Plenty of people get mortgages. They need to have solid savings records (ie a deposit) and permanent jobs. not just waltz into a bank with empty pockets and expect the earth moon and stars.

Also bearing in mind the index shows a continual drop in SALE prices.

Not in the area you are talking about.

Like I said all this is done to artificially manipulate the market.

I actually don't think EA's are sharp enough to even begin coordinate themselves and eachother in that way. Plus, how do you account for non EA sales?

There is no supernatural hand guiding all EA sales. Rent and prices go up when demand go up and supply is low.

Barely Hedged

Need4House wrote: »

This is what im talking about...why should a landlord expect anything other than breaking even at this point in time? Im not making 5%...I aint getting a wage increase, to meet your 5%. See basic understanding of BASIC economics, It's missing here isnt it. No common sense, just blind greed. If you want to make a profit, go and invest in a country that is currently on the up...it isn't Ireland..or does that really need to be rammed home to some people. You cant squeeze blood from a stone..but evidently the Irish landlords think they can, well if you squeeze a stone that hard you will get blood but it will be your own.

Why should a landlord not expect to make a profit? Is it not classified as a business in a similar way to other businesses that provide you with a service or a product in return for money? The service in this case being the roof over your head and maintenance of it.

Why should a person not invest in Ireland if they are taking a view on a long term investment, such as a property. Depressed market, government have sorted the finances and there a clear projections on a full recovery in country in the next 5-8 years. Why wouldnt you plant your cash somewhere that will give you a good return in 5-8 years?

Need4House

miezekatze wrote: »

OP, I bought a house not too far from your area a bit over a month ago, so I have also been tracking price movements in several areas in South Dublin. I'm not sure why you would say that prices are going down, because they are just not. There is still a lot of demand in the area, and there are first time buyers that get mortgage approval - I did! When I started looking I was a bit delusional about what kind of house I'd be able to afford. What I ended up buying is a good bit smaller and further from the city than what I intended to buy, you just need to be realistic about what you can afford. There are plenty of open viewings each weekend, go to those to get a feel for what you can afford. Track the houses you view to see what they actually sell for in the end. This is a long process though, but it helped me. It's true that there are some houses that seem to be constantly up for sale for increasing prices, but those are obviously not really for sale, it's probably just someone trying to please the banks.

Good for you. Im still not buying the BS though. Emigration of young professionals on mass...jacked up rental prices...and if you got a mortgage for a semi reasonable amount over 200K then your in a very tiny minority. In short the numbers do not add up. The streets are no paved with gold in Dublin city, so I don't care about whoever states SD is some fantastic place to live..it isn't..its bog standard. The only thing going for it is the transport links to the city but again, if there is no boom in the city you cant justify the prices. It will reach a critical mass no matter how much manipulating goes one...once more people have left than are coming in, its crunch time..all over again.

D3PO

Need4House wrote: »

How about you do a general internet search then on Irish property prices for south Dub...they are down..
Also I question who runs Daft, Myhome etc...im assuming its the EA's as the sites all have the ring of BS about them IMO.

oh well if a general internet search says so it must be true .....

Forget CSO figures or the property price register, or reports from daft or the likes.

There all in cahoots the lot of them pulling the wool over all our eyes.

Sure if prices are falling why would you want to buy yet like ... Why not sit back and see those SCD housing continue to plumet in value and then pounce.

Seems you could make a mint with your market knowledge.

D3PO

Need4House wrote: »

Good for you. Im still not buying the BS though. Emigration of young professionals on mass...jacked up rental prices...and if you got a mortgage for a semi reasonable amount over 200K then your in a very tiny minority. .

a)Ask yourself how many desirable houses in SCD come up monthly.

b) Now ask yourself how many of this tiny minority can get the mortgages to buy them.

Guess what a) is less than b) so the prices continue to increase.

Just because combined salaries of couples you know don't go well in excess of 100k a year don't assume they are the minority. They don't sit in your social circle perhaps but in my group of friends the minority would be those that don't earn collectively above 120k.

there are LOTS of people / couples out there with the financial muscle to buy at prices of 400k plus.

I think you need a dose of realism, if you are ranting about these houses you most likely cant afford to buy in these areas.

Barely Hedged

Need4House wrote: »

Good for you. Im still not buying the BS though. Emigration of young professionals on mass...jacked up rental prices...and if you got a mortgage for a semi reasonable amount over 200K then your in a very tiny minority. In short the numbers do not add up. The streets are no paved with gold in Dublin city, so I don't care about whoever states SD is some fantastic place to live..it isn't..its bog standard. The only thing going for it is the transport links to the city but again, if there is no boom in the city you cant justify the prices. It will reach a critical mass no matter how much manipulating goes one...once more people have left than are coming in, its crunch time..all over again.

Can you quantify "very tiny minority"?

Is it not roughly speaking 3.5 - 4 times your salary for a mortgage? So somebody on €50k a year could afford the situation you have described falls into a very tine minority. What about a couple who are both on €50k each? Even a couple on €25k each!

Are you saying that theres not a lot of people in Dublin earning > €25k a year?

Need4House

Barely Hedged wrote: »

Why should a landlord not expect to make a profit? Is it not classified as a business in a similar way to other businesses that provide you with a service or a product in return for money? The service in this case being the roof over your head and maintenance of it.

Why should a person not invest in Ireland if they are taking a view on a long term investment, such as a property. Depressed market, government have sorted the finances and there a clear projections on a full recovery in country in the next 5-8 years. Why wouldnt you plant your cash somewhere that will give you a good return in 5-8 years?

Because property...should never have been treated as something to make a profit out of..It should always have been a place to LIVE IN. I could argue why should a landlord make a wad of cash simply for owning a house??? the one Im renting hasn't had any maintenance done on it..the very rare time I mention any issue to the landlord, they blow it off and do nothing to fix it..which is A typical of landlords, as Ive had many over the years.

Full recover in 5-8 years hahahahaha. Really well we will see who the sucker is in 8 years. the only honest thing I heard after the bank bail out, was that it would cripple Ireland FOR GENERATIONS...but now its only 8 years max? the figures change all the time..in 8 years it will be another 5-8 years...This is the basic flawed thinking here. There is no recovery coming, thats not me being a doom and gloom merchant,. its just simple maths.
You evidently have no concept of how much money went down the swanny here.

D3PO

Need4House wrote: »

Because property...should never have been treated as something to make a profit out of..It should always have been a place to LIVE IN. I could argue why should a landlord make a wad of cash simply for owning a house??? the one Im renting hasn't had any maintenance done on it..the very rare time I mention any issue to the landlord, they blow it off and do nothing to fix it..which is A typical of landlords, as Ive had many over the years.

Full recover in 5-8 years hahahahaha. Really well we will see who the sucker is in 8 years. the only honest thing I heard after the bank bail out, was that it would cripple Ireland FOR GENERATIONS...but now its only 8 years max? the figures change all the time..in 8 years it will be another 5-8 years...This is the basic flawed thinking here. There is no recovery coming, thats not me being a doom and gloom merchant,. its just simple maths.
You evidently have no concept of how much money went down the swanny here.

I think your communist ideals would be much better suited to North Korea or Cuba. Have you ever though of moving ?

Shame on all these commercial endeavors who look to make profit.

pwurple

Need4House wrote: »

Because property...should never have been treated as something to make a profit out of..It should always have been a place to LIVE IN.

I, for one, welcome our new communist overlords. I can't wait to see the mansions we will be living in.

wirelessdude01

Need4House wrote: »

I dont even want to live here..its due to the kid being in school, who doesn't want to move school...otherwise id have been off long ago..and that's my point..the free agents who are not bound by families, have gone already or are still leaving in droves. The families renting are in a minority in south dub and it will be a case of the straw breaking the camels back shortly. My job has not jumped 200 euro a month but the rent has..and not just my rent. Yet some people think that's clever? Rather than accepting the 15 hundred for another year or two...why not push us out altogether...this is the Irish mentality when it comes to property..I seen it all over. Remember the ghost estates, all over the country..well not so long ago, in 2007, I couldnt negotiate a 10% price drop on a new house...the same houses now are lying abandoned. I couldnt negotiate a 10% drop in my rent back in 2007 either up in Donegal and the same houses are lying empty for the past number of years, incredibly the same EA's up there still have their jobs..only in Ireland.. See what you have is a pig headed greed in Ireland, and the end result is nobody wins..and in south Dublin they are still at it..but mark my words and remember you heard it here first...the landlords and EA's of south Dub are heading for a massive fall...the only sad thing about that is they will make sure they take the tenants with them first.

Bet you feel better now that your getting that rant off your chest?

Frank Lee Midere

The Irish property market is about as liquid and as fairly priced as AIB shares. Unless there is a continuous flow of cash buyers - who spent 1.2B this year ( or more) - this floor is temporary.

Frank Lee Midere

pwurple wrote: »

I, for one, welcome our new communist overlords. I can't wait to see the mansions we will be living in.

Hardly communist, most European countries have housing controls.