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medical card uproar, a smoke screen over foreign aid?

1235»

Comments

  • #202
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Count Dooku wrote: »
    Yet
    So you want to see Ireland broke in order to preserve charity staff from hard work on fundraising

    Ehh, maybe you should hold off on putting words in people's mouths? Try reading what I actually wrote?


  • #203
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    You see no obscene insult to logic and morality that India and China should give money away to foreign nations for the sake of publicity while they have people starving in their own countries? I mean, the space programme and armed forces are bad enough - but at least they aren't solely for the sake of appearances. No country should both receive and give aid at the same time - it is the antithesis of any sane or ethical approach to... anything even vaguely connected with the subjects of international or national affairs.
    "for the sake of publicity"!? That's your personal fiction, so no point in entertaining it.

    It's worth pointing out that every society that provides foreign aid, also relies on domestic aid programmes - nothing new there. We can't provide foreign aid until VdP are out of business? Keep in mind that this internal need doesn't go away, even when the county is overflowing with money.


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    The Irish state sends €3 million to India, annually? Christ.
    Yep - a whole 73c out of your pocket. Christ on a bike!


  • #204
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    The government of Ireland has thus deemed the needs of foreigners to outweigh those of its citizens in some instances

    Now you're getting it.


  • #205
    Count Dooku
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭Count Dooku


    alastair wrote: »
    Ehh, maybe you should hold off on putting words in people's mouths? Try reading what I actually wrote?
    You wrote that country must continue overseas aid until it will be fully broke
    I am only added comment about laziness of charity staff, who doesn't want work hard on fundraising and prefer do easy tasks like redistribution money given to them by politicians and ODA staff
    alastair wrote: »
    Yep - a whole 73c out of your pocket. Christ on a bike!
    This is 0.73c taken out from pockets of poor people as well
    There is no money for job creation and taking poor people out of unemplyment, but there are money for preserving charities from fundraising


  • #206
    strandsman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 393 ✭✭strandsman


    micosoft wrote: »
    Relatively thoughtful article on the BBC re Space Programme and Street Children.
    Amazing what they have achieved with 50m

    In any case, a key part of the Indian Space Programme is to do with space based satellite imagery for agriculture and weather. When you have One Billion people to feed, many small farmers constantly on the brink, small investments in the above are vitally important to prepare and plan.

    There are satellite's watching Irelands agiculture also and we don't have any space programme. Irish farmers are sent photos of their land to explain various questions the department of agriculture may have.


  • #207
    RandomName2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,570 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    micosoft wrote: »
    "Vested in the government to spend for the best interests of Irish people"
    This is your interpretation which is not shared by the majority of the population or any of our political parties.

    Of course it is. With the greatest respect you might need to familiarise yourself with Hobbes or any sort of political philosophy which relates to modern governance. Moreover, you attempt to conflate the decision of where to spend such money, and apparent consensus, with the nature of taxation in itself - while I will respectfully point out that the two are not mutually exclusive.

    micosoft wrote: »

    India has a population of one billion. When you spread money across that number of people they are NOT a rich country. Their per capita income is $1219 or 142nd in the world. If you can't divide India's "massive" GDP over it's population you really are going to struggle with this topic.

    Of course it is not as rich per capita. By definition, if it were, the issue of an impoverised people would not arise.
    micosoft wrote: »
    I've already addressed why India would be interested in Space but let's look at it another way given your issue with proportionality.

    There are crops on Mars? ICBMs are purely for the benefit of the people? (maybe Krushchev did say that, mind you). Okay, okay there's some niche elements which, I'm sure, aid the common man, but no need for a whitewash.

    Although, come to think of it, didn't North Korea say that it's space rocket was for "scientific development"? It did! Okay, right, I'll leave it rest - fwiw I'm not forgetting that the US spends a *ahem* great deal on the military while it has plenty of work to do at home.
    micosoft wrote: »
    Just as an aside - feckless government? Look at the mess we got ourselves into. The only reason the lights are on and the ATM's in the bank machines still work is because of the intervention and support of the International Community through the IMF and the EU.

    Preaching to the choir.
    micosoft wrote: »
    You see, in this life it cuts both ways. Turn our backs on the poor why should we get help when our time comes.

    We have to pay back everything that we borrowed. With interest. And we only secured those loans so easily and quickly because there was a risk that if we weren't bailed out we'd bring the rest of them down with us. Not exactly the same thing, methinks. Also we post our budget to the Germans ahead nowadays, just to be on the safe side.


  • #208
    RandomName2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,570 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    Count Dooku wrote: »

    This is 0.73c taken out from pockets of poor people as well


    I'm assuming that that's 73c from every man, woman and child in Ireland.

    Sure in 2012 I only spent 10c on JOBS AND ENTERPRISE DEVELOPMENT. 10c! Can you believe it?

    Source


  • #209
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Has anyone a source re this Irish aid to india?


  • #210
    micosoft
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,367 ✭✭✭micosoft


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    I'm assuming that that's 73c from every man, woman and child in Ireland.

    Sure in 2012 I only spent 10c on JOBS AND ENTERPRISE DEVELOPMENT. 10c! Can you believe it?

    Source

    And your point is?

    Are you suggesting that a couple of civil servants that meet and greet a foreign investor should cost more then say, helping 10,000 people in Syria with no shelter?

    Or perhaps you mean that your strange idea that the figure for the Dept. of Jobs and Enterprise is the sum total budget for job creation in Ireland and that the Dept. of Education and Skills and the Dept of Social Protection spend nothing at all, nothing on schemes that could generate jobs or gateways to employment?

    With all due respect throwing in "Source" does not make a case. Show some level of understanding of how the Irish state accounts for job creation.

    I again challenge you - under what circumstances would you countenance aid of any kind? Because at this point I can't see a scenario that


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  • #211
    micosoft
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,367 ✭✭✭micosoft


    Nodin wrote: »
    Has anyone a source re this Irish aid to india?

    It's not that straightforward as Irish Aid does direct aid as well as through Aid agencies like Goal, Concern, Trócaire, Bothair etc. Irish Aid does not do direct aid to India. Indeed the UK equivalent (DFID) is winding down in India as like China it has a growing capacity to self support (yes - believe it or not countries are developing their own capacity slowly but surely). Mostly the projects are involved in Human rights and justice which don't tend to be resolved by state actors. You'd have to check the accounts of agencies involved. Getting access to this data is an issue in the sector - Irish Aid are now making their data "open" by making XML data available available but more work needs to be done.


  • #212
    Count Dooku
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭Count Dooku


    Nodin wrote: »
    Has anyone a source re this Irish aid to india?
    IRISH AID

    In-country Micro Project Scheme (India)

    Guidelines for applicant NGOs – 2013



    The Embassy of Ireland has funds from the In-country Micro Project Scheme of Irish Aid available to assist NGOs in India, Nepal, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka. The scheme is focussed on projects that tackle the root causes of poverty and injustice. Priority is given to sustainable projects.

    The objectives of the In-country Micro Project Scheme are to prevent hunger, improve access to essential services, empower women and marginalised communities, social justice, help local communities advocate for themselves and to combat climate change.

    The scheme is administered by the Embassy of Ireland, New Delhi. The Department of Economic Affairs, Ministry of Finance (Government of India), are joint reviewers of the applications. Applicants are requested to send a short proposal (500 words maximum) by e-mail or by post. If the project is suitable, they will be requested to complete a more details proposal form. We cannot engage in detailed discussions with unsuccessful projects.

    A visit is arranged before funding is considered. Funded projects are inspected and audited regularly to ensure funds are used properly. Successful projects will work closely with the Embassy of Ireland and Irish Aid on all reviews.
    http://www.irelandinindia.com/home/index.aspx?id=73710

    Hardly anybody will die if Ireland will cancel this funding


  • #213
    RandomName2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,570 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    micosoft wrote: »
    And your point is?

    That trying to downplay a state cost by dividing it by four million is both silly and disingenuous.
    micosoft wrote: »
    With all due respect throwing in "Source" does not make a case. Show some level of understanding of how the Irish state accounts for job creation.

    I meant the source to be a source. To provide evidence for the figure I quoted.
    micosoft wrote: »
    I again challenge you - under what circumstances would you countenance aid of any kind? Because at this point I can't see a scenario that

    Well this line has no particular connection with the rest of your statement so there's not a huge amount of context to go on. In general I don't think aid should be the business of government (except perhaps for emergencies or loans). Aid through NGO charities should be fine, and gives individuals a choice about both how much they donate and where they (nominally) want it to go.


  • #214
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Count Dooku wrote: »
    You wrote that country must continue overseas aid until it will be fully broke

    I did? No doubt you can find a quote to support that claim? (Hint: you can't)


  • #215
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    strandsman wrote: »
    There are satellite's watching Irelands agiculture also and we don't have any space programme. Irish farmers are sent photos of their land to explain various questions the department of agriculture may have.

    We do have a space programme, that we contribute millions to each year.


  • #216
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    I'm assuming that that's 73c from every man, woman and child in Ireland.

    Sure in 2012 I only spent 10c on JOBS AND ENTERPRISE DEVELOPMENT. 10c! Can you believe it?

    Source

    By my reading we paid €366 million on JOBS, ENTERPRISE AND INNOVATION in 2012. So unless you discount the majority of the overhead of running their services, and the personnel costs involved in those projects, we spent rather more than 10c each in 2012.


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  • #217
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    Well this line has no particular connection with the rest of your statement so there's not a huge amount of context to go on. In general I don't think aid should be the business of government (except perhaps for emergencies or loans). Aid through NGO charities should be fine, and gives individuals a choice about both how much they donate and where they (nominally) want it to go.

    Even that bastion of free-market liberalisation, the USA recognises the benefits of state administered foreign aid programmes. You don't get to pick and choose where any of your other taxes get spent, so why do you believe you should have that facility for tax-supported foreign aid? Nothing stopping you making personal contributions to your favoured NGO's as well.


  • #218
    RandomName2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,570 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    alastair wrote: »
    We do have a space programme, that we contribute millions to each year.

    [rhetorical question]Why on earth are we not receiving aid? [/rhetorical question]
    alastair wrote: »
    By my reading we paid €366 million on JOBS, ENTERPRISE AND INNOVATION in 2012. So unless you discount the majority of the overhead of running their services, and the personnel costs involved in those projects, we spent rather more than 10c each in 2012.

    Open the document. Press Ctrl+f. Enter "JOBS, ENTERPRISE AND INNOVATION" in the search box (minus the inverted commas). Press enter. Not that that was missing my point in the first place or anything anyway.
    alastair wrote: »
    You don't get to pick and choose where any of your other taxes get spent, so why do you believe you should have that facility for tax-supported foreign aid? Nothing stopping you making personal contributions to your favoured NGO's as well.

    I've already addressed this, so in order to avoid going around in circles, I'll assume we agree to differ.


  • #219
    Count Dooku
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭Count Dooku


    alastair wrote: »
    Even that bastion of free-market liberalisation, the USA recognises the benefits of state administered foreign aid programmes.
    Foreign aid is important part of neocolonial policies for USA, because it makes recipients more depending from aid and allows to enforce own policies. Hardly it is important for Ireland


  • #220
    Count Dooku
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭Count Dooku


    alastair wrote: »
    I did? No doubt you can find a quote to support that claim? (Hint: you can't)
    You wrote that Ireland can continue spend money on overseas aid instead of investment into job creation until country will be broke. You need to learn how to understand what you wrote


  • #221
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    Open the document. Press Ctrl+f. Enter "JOBS, ENTERPRISE AND INNOVATION" in the search box (minus the inverted commas). Press enter. Not that that was missing my point in the first place or anything anyway.

    And? It's a small fraction of the €366 million we spent on the area. You're implying it's the total expenditure.


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  • #222
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Count Dooku wrote: »
    You wrote that Ireland can continue spend money on overseas aid instead of investment into job creation until country will be broke. You need to learn how to understand what you wrote

    No I did not. I'm still waiting for that quote.


  • #223
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Count Dooku wrote: »
    Foreign aid is important part of neocolonial policies for USA

    Ah right. :rolleyes:


  • #224
    RandomName2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,570 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    alastair wrote: »
    And? It's a small fraction of the €366 million we spent on the area. You're implying it's the total expenditure.

    With the greatest respect, I'm not; no more than I'm claiming that the €3 million sent to India is the total expenditure of foreign aid, while it is, in fact, a small fraction of the c. €700 million we spent in the area.


  • #225
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    With the greatest respect, I'm not; no more than I'm claiming that the €3 million sent to India is the total expenditure of foreign aid, while it is, in fact, a small fraction of the c. €700 million we spent in the area.

    We don't spent €700 million on foreign aid to India - we spent €3 million
    We did spent €388 million on JOBS, ENTERPRISE AND INNOVATION in 2012, unlike your inference that it was fraction of this.


  • #226
    RandomName2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,570 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    alastair wrote: »
    We don't spent €700 million on foreign aid to India - we spent €3 million
    We did spent €388 million on JOBS, ENTERPRISE AND INNOVATION in 2012, unlike your inference that it was fraction of this.

    It is no longer fun when you don't even read my posts properly. This error on your part is even more bemusing in the context, as I was deliberately echoing your previous statement - not that your previous statement was even addressing my argument in the first place.


  • #227
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    It is no longer fun when you don't even read my posts properly. This error on your part is even more bemusing in the context, as I was deliberately echoing your previous statement - not that your previous statement was even addressing my argument in the first place.

    I understood the post alright - I'm stating that equating the citizen outlay on aid to India with an arbitrary portion of jobs and innovation expenditure within the state is disingenuous - whether divided by 4 million, or not.


  • #228
    RandomName2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,570 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    alastair wrote: »
    I understood the post alright - I'm stating that equating the citizen outlay on aid to India with an arbitrary portion of jobs and innovation expenditure within the state is disingenuous - whether divided by 4 million, or not.

    Even if that was what you said, and it wasn't, but even if it was; you yourself have taken an arbitrary portion of foreign aid expenditure (namely to India) and then divided that figure by 4 million in order to highlight how apparently small our contribution is. Unless of course you have forgotten:
    alastair wrote: »
    Who said that it didn't? Your 73c that went to projects for the poor in India really winds you up? Does the fact that the Irish government have expenditures that you might not agree with, mean that any charity-funded projects in Ireland are equally undeserving? Could it be that the Indian

    [...]

    (not for a space programme mind, but for development projects for the poor of India) amounts to 73c per year. Again - none of your money went to a space programme, any more than your contributions to the SVP here went to the European Space Programme. Aid into Africa has demonstrably not been a Canute exercise

    [...]

    Who's not accepted that? The point was: 1. You're whinging over a paltry 73c 2. You're making accusations without evidence (military regimes siphoning off Irish Aid) 3. You're suggesting Irish Aid isn't allocated on the basis of merit

    [...]

    that this internal need doesn't go away, even when the county is overflowing with money. Yep - a whole 73c out of your pocket. Christ on a bike!


  • #229
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    Even if that was what you said, and it wasn't, but even if it was; you yourself have taken an arbitrary portion of foreign aid expenditure (namely to India) and then divided that figure by 4 million in order to highlight how apparently small our contribution is. Unless of course you have forgotten:

    No I did not. I've not forgotten - it was in response to supposed outrage that we send foreign aid to India - it was the context of the conversation. Now that's the entirety of our commitment to India - 73c each in that year - hardly worthy of such supposed indignation. The figure you brought up in relation to jobs & innovation (in an attempt to undermine the identification of a small commitment) was a minute fraction of the actual commitment to jobs & innovation. That's what was disingenuous.


  • #230
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Count Dooku wrote: »
    http://www.irelandinindia.com/home/index.aspx?id=73710

    Hardly anybody will die if Ireland will cancel this funding


    ....it seems to be assistance for NGO's operating within India. People referring to it as "Irish aid" per se seems misleading, tbh.

    "hardly anyone"? Well that's a comfort. Citing a lack of immediate mass death as excuse for cancellation strikes me as being rather simplistic.

    The Irish Government still offers funds to those offering services to Irish emigrant communities abroad in 1st world states - in light of this a relatively small sum aiding social progress in India is hardly the first thing to shove onto the cutting block.


  • #231
    Count Dooku
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭Count Dooku


    alastair wrote: »
    No I did not. I'm still waiting for that quote.
    alastair wrote: »
    Thing is - you're not on your knees, flat broke, so why pretend otherwise?
    I presume you have a lot of facts that Ireland will quickly recover and return to property bubble again :rolleyes:


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  • #232
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Count Dooku wrote: »
    I presume you have a lot of facts that Ireland will quickly recover and return to property bubble again :rolleyes:

    So - you can't quote me to support your straw man argument. Glad we clarified that.


  • #233
    Count Dooku
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭Count Dooku


    Nodin wrote: »
    ....it seems to be assistance for NGO's operating within India. People referring to it as "Irish aid" per se seems misleading, tbh.

    "hardly anyone"? Well that's a comfort. Citing a lack of immediate mass death as excuse for cancellation strikes me as being rather simplistic.
    Outsourcing Irish jobs to India is more efficient way to help Indian people, because it create jobs and sustainable growth, while direct aid is achieving only keeping busy Irish Aid staff and nothing else sustainable


  • #234
    Count Dooku
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭Count Dooku


    alastair wrote: »
    So - you can't quote me to support your straw man argument. Glad we clarified that.
    Not really
    You missed "yet" in you sentence after "full broke"


  • #235
    Voodoo_rasher
    Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭Voodoo_rasher


    Is this €700m not borrowed money? LOL!


  • #236
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Count Dooku wrote: »
    Not really
    You missed "yet" in you sentence after "full broke"

    Oh, so you're now telling me what I should have written? :o

    Here's what you claimed for me:
    You wrote that country must continue overseas aid until it will be fully broke

    Now - where's the quote that supports this invention (amongst many) of yours?


  • #237
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Count Dooku wrote: »
    Outsourcing Irish jobs to India is more efficient way to help Indian people, because it create jobs and sustainable growth, while direct aid is achieving only keeping busy Irish Aid staff and nothing else sustainable


    We don't give direct aid, if you read the link you kindly provided....


  • #238
    Count Dooku
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭Count Dooku


    alastair wrote: »
    Oh, so you're now telling me what I should have written? :o

    Here's what you claimed for me:


    Now - where's the quote that supports this invention (amongst many) of yours?
    Simple - you want to spend money what we don't have


  • #239
    micosoft
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,367 ✭✭✭micosoft


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    That trying to downplay a state cost by dividing it by four million is both silly and disingenuous.

    And saying India is a rich company without understanding population/national income is not silly and disingeneous? It was clear what I meant - India is poor because it has a very large population compared to national income. Ireland is very rich because it has a small population compared to national income. You can't just ignore India's population and make out that they squander money. 52m is .05c per Indian. Context is everything.
    RandomName2 wrote: »
    I meant the source to be a source. To provide evidence for the figure I quoted.
    But you set no context or serious understanding of the figures being discussed. You attempted to use it in the same way as somebody calls out "fact" when it is in fact arguable.
    RandomName2 wrote: »
    Well this line has no particular connection with the rest of your statement so there's not a huge amount of context to go on. In general I don't think aid should be the business of government (except perhaps for emergencies or loans). Aid through NGO charities should be fine, and gives individuals a choice about both how much they donate and where they (nominally) want it to go.
    And you know what - that's OK. If you choose not to believe in intra- governmental aid and development that's your perogative. But you have to understand that you are a tiny minority of people in this country that believe the state should have no international aid programme. But then we are into a discussion on morality and that's not based on fact but based on what people believe - no point debating that.

    Just as a matter of interest - if a hurricane that hit the phillipines hit Ireland would you be happy that the EU and US shrugged their shoulders and said it was a matter for private aid? Just askin!


  • #240
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Count Dooku wrote: »
    Simple - you want to spend money what we don't have

    I'm still not seeing that quote. Strange that.


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  • #241
    Count Dooku
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭Count Dooku


    alastair wrote: »
    I'm still not seeing that quote. Strange that.
    If you don't understand what you wrote, then any further discussion is pointless. We should return to it when people in Ireland will start to suffer due reckless spending on overseas aid


  • #242
    RandomName2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,570 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    micosoft wrote: »
    And saying India is a rich company without understanding population/national income is not silly and disingeneous? It was clear what I meant - India is poor because it has a very large population compared to national income. Ireland is very rich because it has a small population compared to national income. You can't just ignore India's population and make out that they squander money. 52m is .05c per Indian. Context is everything.

    But details can be irrelevant as well. The point was about where the Indian government chooses to spend money... ah look, it doesn't matter.
    micosoft wrote: »
    But you set no context or serious understanding of the figures being discussed. You attempted to use it in the same way as somebody calls out "fact" when it is in fact arguable.

    That -was- the point.
    micosoft wrote: »
    But you have to understand that you are a tiny minority of people in this country that believe the state should have no international aid programme.

    If this is true, then it would make no difference if there was no state aid, as these people would surely donate privately. That is, unless there is a particularly good argument against private donation.
    micosoft wrote: »
    Just as a matter of interest - if a hurricane that hit the phillipines hit Ireland would you be happy that the EU and US shrugged their shoulders and said it was a matter for private aid? Just askin!

    Well I did say that emergencies were different from just the usual annual expenditure - but since we are in a union with the EU (which functions as a supra state in relation to Ireland) - it would be exceptionally odd (and technically unconstitutional) if it did not help, if we needed it. The USA is also, sort of, our neighbour, and with the mutual ties our two countries have it would hardly be out of the question to expect aid from that quarter as well.

    alastair wrote: »
    No I did not. I've not forgotten - it was in response to supposed outrage that we send foreign aid to India - it was the context of the conversation. Now that's the entirety of our commitment to India - 73c each in that year - hardly worthy of such supposed indignation. The figure you brought up in relation to jobs & innovation (in an attempt to undermine the identification of a small commitment) was a minute fraction of the actual commitment to jobs & innovation. That's what was disingenuous.

    You aren't making sense any more.


  • #243
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Count Dooku wrote: »
    If you don't understand what you wrote, then any further discussion is pointless. We should return to it when people in Ireland will start to suffer due reckless spending on overseas aid

    I understand what I wrote perfectly. You're the one having difficulty. If you haven't got the good grace to admit you were making stuff up, then it's obvious to anyone else reading the thread.


  • #244
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    You aren't making sense any more.

    Can't help you there - it's pretty straightforward.


  • #245
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    That is, unless there is a particularly good argument against private donation.

    There's perfectly good arguments for state aid alongside private donations. Do you have equal difficulty with other public programmes operating alongside privately-funded initiatives?


  • #246
    walshb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,710 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    The Irish state sends €3 million to India, annually? Christ.

    That is just pathetic. It's so paltry compared to what that that country is. Its size, population, diversity, wealth, power, influence. That 3 million should be stopped immediately. Ireland and its 4.5 million people give India with its 1 billion people 3 million a year. It sounds so ludicrous! Only in Ireland, eh?


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  • #247
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    walshb wrote: »
    That is just pathetic. It's so paltry compared to what that that country is. Its size, population, diversity, wealth, power, influence. That 3 million should be stopped immediately. Ireland and its 4.5 million people give India with its 1 billion people 3 million a year. It sounds so ludicrous! Only in Ireland, eh?

    There's a lot of people in many of the countries Irish Aid goes to. It's targeted spending, so quite what the total population has to do with it is something of a mystery.


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