It's not a traditional revolver, but....

tac foley

it's as near as any ordinary Joe [or Joe-ess] can get to shooting an regular-looking revolver here in England, Scotland and Wales. In Northern Ireland, of course, they can have the usual cartridge-firing handguns.
BTW, that's Natalie, daughter of the movie poster, shooting it -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qfy5mF4ZS6o

It IS a muzzle-loader, which is why it's permitted to own on mainland GB. The cylinder is removed to load 2.8gr of Bullseye or 3gr of Herco, a #209 primer is placed on the nipples, and off you go. I've posted a movie on YouTube, as well, under tac's guns -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDREtzupFRw

And no, the shooter is NOT me, so no flaming.

Cost of this item is around eu800, and there is a nice-looking slab-sider - 6" bbl and with target sights - for around eu400 more.

Still a shame, though, eh?

tac

rowa

Very nice Tac, its good that you can have muzzle loaders still in the UK. How many cylinders are you allowed ? I would love a muzzle loader like the ruger old army. I don't know what the legal situation is with muzzle loaders in ireland (are they centrefire or rimfire or either ?), though it would be restricted on the basis of calibre.

tac foley

Mornin', Ronan. You CAN have more than one cylinder, but each one is counted as a complete firearm [!].

The problem with muzzle-loaders in the Roi are manifold, and for the following reasons -

1. They are loaded with black powder of one grade or another - VERY difficult for the ordinary shooter to get licensed for this stuff.

OR

2. They are loaded with any of the four or five modern BP substitutes which are NOT explosives, but propellants. However the RoI Explosives Act of 1888 or thereabout makes no concessions to the existence of propellants, as they were unknown back then. As we all know, it is also currently 'under revision', but that can mean any number oof things, too. As far as the legal acquisition of propellants is concerned, the terms under which the few that are permitted to reload centrefire ammunition in the ROI elude me completely, so it can be done, that much is clear.

3. This poor substitute for a real handgun is a .38cal revolver, but is neither rimfire nor centrefire, as the charge is set off by an externally-applied primer.

It seems that anything above .22 cal in a handgun is becoming difficult, or even impossible, to license in the Republic, so my guess is that you'll never see anything like this in Ireland until the law is changed.

Here in yUK, both of my BP revolvers are .44cal - way over the 'Restricted' bar in the RoI.

tac

Grizzly 45

Hmm.I could see a Remington 1858 new army style design,reworked for the 21st century as being quite a possibility over there soon.:)

tac foley

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Hmm.I could see a Remington 1858 new army style design,reworked for the 21st century as being quite a possibility over there soon.:)

If you are thinking about the cartridge conversions, please forget it. In Northern Ireland it would fly, but not on the mainland UK.

tac

Grizzly 45

Uh Nope...More like the rig Clint Eastwood had in the film "Pale Rider".Which is based on a factual design around the 1850s for a BP revolver

Pre loaded BP revolver cylinders [or nitro in this case],with a more speedier cylinder change out.In a rig that a lot of police officers used to have for speedier revolver reloads,and I could see CF IPSC "english style" making a comeback.

tac foley

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Uh Nope...More like the rig Clint Eastwood had in the film "Pale Rider".Which is based on a factual design around the 1850s for a BP revolver

I mentioned cartridge conversions because the image show such a conversion. Note also -

In 1868, Remington began offering cartridge conversions of the revolver in .46 rimfire. Remington paid a royalty fee to Smith & Wesson, owners of the Rollin White patent (#12,648, April 3, 1855) on bored-through revolver cylinders for metallic cartridge use. The Remington Army cartridge-conversions were the first large-caliber cartridge revolvers available, beating even Smith & Wesson's .44 American to market by nearly two years.

Due to the large volume of these pistols individual gunsmiths produced cartridge conversions (from cap and ball versions) in a variety of calibers such as .44-40 and .45 Colt.

Pre loaded BP revolver cylinders [or nitro in this case],with a more speedier cylinder change out.In a rig that a lot of police officers used to have for speedier revolver reloads,and I could see CF IPSC "english style" making a comeback.

Yes, sure you can have as many extra cylinders as you want - IF you can persuade the PTB that you have a 'good reason' for having them. Sadly, there is no competition which requires fast loading of any muzzle-loading revolver like this one, which is really a novelty toy here in yUK, so you are basically doomed.

ONE extra cylinder for a REAL BP handgun - not this thing, which does not conform to ANY BP-era handgun competition rules - is a distinct possibility, and can happen, so I'm told.

I shot IPSC here in UK and in Germany for almost twenty years, and had a bucket full of medals to show for it, so I DO know what you are talking about. When I handed in my IPSC pistols [I had three], I upended the bucket of medals on the desk of the police sergeant taking them in. He was angry, but nowhere near as angry as I was.

tac

EWQuinn

You've been through the school of hard gun knocks in UK, but ironically there is still some more latitude there for stuff like reloading and guns like this. Pretty cool concept, I'm a big fan of Bullseye powder so I could get into that.

tac foley

True words, Sir. I lost more handguns in the 'hand-in' than most people have seen in the entire lives, so I have an entirely understandable take on the way things are here in mainland UK right now.

However, this bit of fun serves to give back a little of what was lost back in 1997/8.

I have two .44cal BP revolvers, and a Ruger Super Redhawk in .357 Magnum, so, as you say, there is some latitude. Of course, meanwhile, the truckloads of eastern European guns, and the scumbags that carry them, are arriving in droves every day of the week.

tac

rowa

I was surprised that although muzzle loaders and long barrel pistols in some pretty potent calibres are allowed in the uk , that the ban wasn't relaxed to allow the british team to possess and practice with .22 target pistols for the olympics.

tac foley

Also for the Commonwealth Games, BTW.

However, the pistols are located in Switzerland, where the British pistol team have to go to train. The government dispensation was only valid for the duration of the Olympic Games, and the guns were taken away after shooting and stored in a nearby police armoury, just in case any of them went berserk and started to kill people when the owner's back was turned.

As for calibres, here in yUK we can have a smooth-bore up to 2" bore - punt guns, of course. After that it gets a mite difficult to put up to your shoulder [;)]

Black powder muskets of the Civil War era were commonly between .60" and .75" bore - the Brown Bess musket is also anything between .69" and .75" - all quite common here. Rifled arms are trickier - there are a good few .50cal MBG rifles in use for long range shooting of the extreme kind - the UK .50cal Shooting Association is the largest of all outside the USA, and calibres like the .416 CheyTac and the .338 LM are rather limited to the ranges where they may be safely shot. Diggle Ranges are one such place that comes to mind.

Anyhow, I'll shut up before I get a ticking from the Mods - this is, after all, not my box to stand on.

tac, eighteen guns, but who's counting?

IRLConor

rowa wrote: »

I was surprised that although muzzle loaders and long barrel pistols in some pretty potent calibres are allowed in the uk , that the ban wasn't relaxed to allow the british team to possess and practice with .22 target pistols for the olympics.

There was a little bit of relaxation of the ban for a very small number of shooters in the run up to the London Olympics. From talking to one of the shooters who got to shoot .22 pistol in the UK in the last few years it was a little bit better than having to go to Switzerland, but not by much.

There have been a few officially sanctioned training sessions in the UK since the Olympics but they're few and far between and I suspect that once the CWG is over they'll take those section 5 licenses back.

tac foley

rowa wrote: »

I was surprised that although muzzle loaders and long barrel pistols in some pretty potent calibres are allowed in the uk , that the ban wasn't relaxed to allow the british team to possess and practice with .22 target pistols for the olympics.

Ronan, I'll address your comment separately here, if I may. Long-barrelled revolvers - six or seven shot for centre-fire, and up to ten for the Taurus .22, are common hereabouts. As you note, any calibre that can be made into such a gun is legal here - in fact, the Thompson Contender is available in a couple of hundred pistol AND rifle calibres, all the way up to .45-70Govt. I had one of those back when they were legal, but I don't want the fiasco version we have to put up with now. It was tamed by having a JSK muzzle brake, but it was still 'interesting' to shoot a handgun that propelled a 405gr FMJ at 1450 fps...

Suffice it to say that no muzzle-loader/loose powder loader handgun has been deliberatley used in the commission of any kind of crime since the middle 1920s, so the perceived threat to public safety, given that the loading after firing takes a while, was deemed to be so low as to be negligible [more on that later]. Also, find the powder to make it go....

Since you've seen MY LBR on the other forum, I'll leave it to your imagination how hard THAT would be to conceal, always supposing that a person with criminal intent got their hands on it in the first place. Sure, they'd instantly cut the barrel down, and hack the sticky-out bit off - both serious crimes here in yUK as that presupposes criminal intent. However, first the criminal has to FIND one...plus the ammunition - most are .44cal of one kind or another.

IF, however, the criminal is also the owner, that's a chicken of a different kettle. There is NO safeguard against ANY gun-owner suddenly getting a brainstorm - that's why the application for an FAC includes permission to access the applicant's medical records, and why there have to be THREE referees, including the gun club secretary, to support the application, after a SIX-MONTH probationary period. You are required in law to declare any medication that treats a condtion such as diabetes or any kind of epilepsy, or any long-term condtion that may or may not [in the opinion of your doctor or the police] give rise to concern about your ability to stand up, unfogged in mind or brain, and handle a lethal firearm in public. Any criminal record of any kind must be declared and checked out by the BiB. Any jail term in excess of three months [might be six] automatically bans you from any kind of a gun license for life. Deliberately lying on the hand-written declaration - a 'sworn' document - in order to 'obtain a firearms license by false declaration for nefarious purposes', carries a five-year holiday possibililty. Drunks, beat-wifers, those predisposed to petty violence, those of no fixed abode and DUI-ers need not apply, nor would those who suffer a certain type of diabetes where you might just conk out and keel over whilst in charge of a loaded firearm.

It goes without saying that epileptics don't make for a healthy and happy range-sharing experience either.

Remember, too, that here in UK gun club membership is NOT an option. If, for some reason, you get expelled from your gun club for being less than safe and sensible, your FAC goes with your membership, and the boys in blue [BiB] will demand your guns off you.

Anyhow, as I noted above, this is an Irish forum, and most folks are not interested in what goes on elsewhere, having enough problems of their own to cope with where gun ownership is concerned, so, my apologies to all here.

The rain has stopped, so I'm off shooting before it gets too gloomy.

tac

tac foley

IRLConor wrote: »

There have been a few officially sanctioned training sessions in the UK since the Olympics but they're few and far between and I suspect that once the CWG is over they'll take those section 5 licenses back.

Yup. Can't have all those weapons of mass destruction being let loose on the streets of UK, can we?

It's not as though there aren't already .......... [fill in the number you first thought of] illegal firearms in this country to keep them company.

tac

Grizzly 45

Hmmmm.
Do I see a possibility of increasing range membership and tourism figures,and coinage were the UK pistol shooters to train down in the ROI with .22 pistols??
Alot handier and easier to reach Ireland than Switzerland betimes..
Just a thought.

tac foley

Not the way the law is currently interpreted. For instance, back when I was shooting serious pistol I was shooting four times a week, at least.

Besides, who in the RoI would have, let alone loan, a pistol that they didn't mind having the grip hacked around for a furriner to shoot?

As I understand it, you have to be resident and a citizen to have a firearms license in the RoI. More to the point, your PTB don't seem to be the most helpful dealing with citizens of the RoI and their handguns, let alone a bunch of furrin visitors.

Mind, you, if anybody there has a .22 Walther GSP with a left-hand Nil grip.........serial #113255, keep it by, will'ya?

It used to be mine.

tac

IRLConor

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Hmmmm.
Do I see a possibility of increasing range membership and tourism figures,and coinage were the UK pistol shooters to train down in the ROI with .22 pistols??
Alot handier and easier to reach Ireland than Switzerland betimes..
Just a thought.

It has potential, but right now I don't know of a range that has the facilities to host a training camp for ISSF 25m pistol shooters. For individuals training, sure there are some options but for team get-togethers it's not really feasible right now.

tac foley

I apologise for the thread drift here - my fault entirely. I'll delete my posts if required by mods.

tac

Grizzly 45

tac foley wrote: »

Not the way the law is currently interpreted. For instance, back when I was shooting serious pistol I was shooting four times a week, at least.

THAT could be expensive now if you did have to go to Switzerland all the time to train.
How much are the now friendlier Ryanair flites UK/IRL these days??you could do that in theory for less than a congestion charge payment in London.:)

Besides, who in the RoI would have, let alone loan, a pistol that they didn't mind having the grip hacked around for a furriner to shoot?

As I understand it, you have to be resident and a citizen to have a firearms license in the RoI. More to the point, your PTB don't seem to be the most helpful dealing with citizens of the RoI and their handguns, let alone a bunch of furrin visitors.

Well, maybe resident but citizen...... NO!
ASFIK you dont have to be a resident of Ireland to be a gun club member,and one wonders could the" Club gun " situation be used in this case.

Oddly enough,and proably because of the Ahem! extended visit by generations of your countrymen.:D.The PTB will proably bend over backwards to assist and help those foreign yokes than they will their own.We wont obligingly feck off after spending all our money here after a couple of weeks...:p It was a cause of abit of upset with our own firearms laws too ,mostly about ammo limits awhile back.

OK not a simple project by any stretch,but I do belive a possible one for those lion hearted enough to try.If we can get reloading going ,somwhat.Can we get UK tourist pistol shooters as well??
Maybe by the next grabbing..err.Gathering?

tac foley

Sadly although I live only 45 miles away from London Stansted, Ryaniar no longer fly to RoI from there. I'd have to go to Southend to get a flight to Ireland now......'snot a cheap option any more.

Anyhow, you know how connected I am with shooting in Ireland - do you imagine that if it was so easy, I wouldn't be over every now and then with a trunk-full of shootin' irons of my own to share out on a range day?

tac

Grizzly 45

Ryan air would be useless to you with a trunk load of shootin irons anyway.
They wont accept guns for transport.mucks up their flight time turnaround or something..That's their excuse anyway..All they would be good for is getting bodies over here on the cheap.

Never said it'd be easy.Anything that is shootin related here never is.:)

tac foley

Easiest way over for me is via Caergybi and Dun Laogháire in a car.

tac