Anti-Social Behaviour Resolutions.

cerastes

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So where exactly do you think these folks should live then?

If they are just moved to another estate, then we will simply have someone else posting here with the same issues.

Seriously, they should be penalised for their behaviour, maybe they will change their attitude instead of being given carte blanche to do as they please without fear of punishment. The throw our hands in the air and what can I do belief half the reason people get away with this shit.


Keep a record of everything, keep in touch with as many people as possible, gain as much support as possible, start with a few and when others see support they may join.

Dont just assume this support should always discuss this issue, when this sort of people see the wind has changed against them and they cannot intimidate a large group they might either quieten down or go.

Also, contact the landlord by registered letter, make the complaint now, if they are in less than 6 months the landlord can issue a notice of termination, give the landlord a list of complaints and if you think there will be no end, demand they do something about it, or you will take the matter further with them as they have a responsibility in the matter, get others to do this too and keep a record of who has contacted the landlord, get copies of such correspondence now, in case people back out later.

Be prepared to go to the PRTB and make your case, dont back down, try get others to attend too. Form a loose association of concerned individuals to make the complaint if possible, seek some legal advice.

Contact the council and local representatives, put your concerns in writing, reg letter and by email, get a petition signed if possible, tell people its for councillers/Gardai to do something and will not be disclosed to the individualsand send it to representatives and remind them that it is not to be disclosed, although they should know.

If you can even get some of that support, a PRTB case should go well.
You do not need photo/video evidence, statements from people and even a list of events yourself when they happened will do too. But you said the incident with the block and the door was documented.

It could take time, dont let them know you're concerned if you are, dont get baited into arguments, I would not even entertain them anymore, to complain or anything, just keep a record of everything.

I believe putting pressure on the landlord is the best way to resolve your problem, by a number of people even better, just make sure the contacts are recorded and verifiable (registered letters).
Think it will be a success as you live and own that house, you have no option, when others see your determination that might help.

handlemaster

I assume by now you have the landlords details. Time to put the pressure on

Henry Ford III

If you have really badly behaved neighbours realistically the best outcome you can hope for is to get them moved elsewhere.

Changing peoples entire behaviour is virtually impossible. A scobe is a scobe.

eamonn3974

No details as of yet Handlemaster,...council still have not replied, local Gardai liason postponed meeting til Friday adding that she didnt know what she could do about it in a casual manner & awaiting contact from another owner who has details of one of the LLs. Getting together with 4 other owners and making the PRTB option a joint effort.
Also heard today that one of the LLs is actually residing in England so not sure where that leaves us with regard to the PRTB option.

cerastes

eamonn3974 wrote: »

No details as of yet Handlemaster,...council still have not replied, local Gardai liason postponed meeting til Friday adding that she didnt know what she could do about it in a casual manner & awaiting contact from another owner who has details of one of the LLs. Getting together with 4 other owners and making the PRTB option a joint effort.
Also heard today that one of the LLs is actually residing in England so not sure where that leaves us with regard to the PRTB option.

Worth following up, keeping records and in touch with these, but be careful not to appear to pester the Gardai, they wont be likely to do anything on anyones word unless there is a verifiable proof or witnesses, in which case its too late.
By all means contact them if anyone threatens you or there is property damage as if you wished to or had to follow up a claim, I assume you would need a report from the Gardai.
Council, might depend where you are, slow too in my opinion.

Id get the info together yourselves, I think the PRTB route is the best one, but up to you. Its meant to make the process Gardai/solicitor free, One of the best things you can have is the complaints of a number of people and a written record of what happened when.
Just do a list of dates and events, maybe with a little detail if needed.

4 people would share the cost of making a complaint, €25 fee? per complaint, so €8 per complaint per person, thats ok, Id imagine each different landlord would be a seperate complaint, look at the PRTB website/ask advice/contact the PRTB. Also 4 complainants is a fairly solid statement that whats happening isnt just one persons perception.
You can still make a complaint whether the landlord is registered, attends or not or replies or not and I believe it will still be heard. I suspect anyone not turning up to defend themselves might be viewed less favourably.

If the landlord doesnt enact any decision, I think they could be open to prosecution as the PRTB is empowered by an Act of Law.

eamonn3974

Thanks Cerastas,
Thats the plan, multiple residents, documenting issues & notifying Gardai when the usual "gonna bust yer head" threats issued and property damage. Compiling video of the noise, loitering around the property of other tenants, being asked to move along followed by threats etc.
I agree that the Gardai are useless unless you've got vid or some other evidence of damage or threat but we'll see will that change once we go in with what we've got. Regarding the negligence of the local council with regard to following up complaints made about tenants in recipet of council housing subsidies that will definitely be going further.
As I've said before, the main prioritry is to get these tenants out at this stage, whether thru LL accountability or forced eviction but the secondary issue will be to highlight the negligance of the Dungarvan County Council Housing Authority and the 2 correspondants we've all dealt with. ( Name em and shame em with the full paper work background so no one has to deal with this **** again.)

An Ri rua

eamonn3974 wrote: »

Cost is the main thing with the camera's Dealhunter85. Have asked the council to put up no ball playing signs in the blocks but nothing ever happened. Kid's are a nightmare, screaming and wailing all day in the square but its the parents that we want to take accountability for them and the Landlords for housing the unhousable here. The area seems to be becoming one of those estates where all kinds of "difficult" residents are being located to at the expense of buy to reside owners.

Purely with regards to protecting your own property and your good neighbours doing similar, I recommend getting an in-car camera to 1. protect your car and 2. give you more protection of your house and proof of lawbreaking.

But also, and particularly for anyone else reading, it does not cost much AT ALL to run efficient home security cameras. I use an 8 year old laptop, with a wired USB webcam on my front windowsill, with the free www.yawcam.com running and sending me INSTANT emails or Dropbox files.

I also snapped up a cheap Android phone (lots of Adverts.ie; I got an as new VF Smart II for €30) and run Securet motion detection on it (plus another streaming app if I wish) and again, it is in flight mode and uses my home's wifi to send me instant shots of my back garden. It protects my oil tank and also my back shed and in fact my back garden integrity as I have a Bollicky Bill neighbour who feels that he can just come over the 6ft wall and retrieve his kid's ball, despite treating me as if I don't exist since I moved in as a renter. So to punish his ignorance and unfriendliness, I put up CCTV stickers and a camera at the back also.
NOTHING happens at my home (or my elderly mother's expansive property) without me having immediate knowledge.

I wish you well with your situation. Take good advice, don't aggravate those who live in the gutter and are not looking to the stars but also don't compromise on you and your family's wellbeing. Go all out, methodically, using the law. Full bull.
And that advice is from a serious hothead, a freedom lover and a born and bred Republican. You have a right to peace and freedom. Do not accept being oppressed by others. My cousin went through this ordeal for 3 years, for the sin of building on his grandparents' land and upsetting previously harmonious neighbours. Well off, well connected but crackers and ultimately, scum. He, unlike my natural reaction heretofore, used the law and justice was (mostly) served. As others have said, target the money. The landlord. And turn the legal screw.
I had horrible neighbours in a previous apartment complex. One lot even owned their apartment but were heroin-using dirtbirds with 70+ convictions. Get the landlord's numbers (google and dig for linked numbers / data) and then plague that landlord while methodically following the law and the good counsel of the seasoned Boardsies and Mods here.

Very best wishes. Persevere. It WILL come right for you. But grieve also. because you and your loved ones, and your job etc WON'T get this time back. So those B*STARDS do sort of win.

eamonn3974

Latest update.
Council finally replied saying that one house was privately rented so contact the landlord as the council has no obligation and regarding the other house, council said they had approached the tenents and found everything satifactory with them...also, if we had any evidence then submit it to the Gardai for the Gardai to process the complaint.
Had ameeting with the Gardai liason, seemed very reluctant to handle any complaints in an offically capacity & has proposed a group meeting of difficult tenents & with all complaint residents accompanied by the liason officer to "set some ground rules".
We were alos informed that the videos and photos could not be used as get this..."its illegal to record or photograph theses individual unless a full disclaimer and their consent is given."
Seems to be something very very fishy with the whole situation. Guards hesitent to even allow us to make an offical complaint and council, who had met with the liason officer and the tenents in the days prior to responding to our initial complaints are a total waste of space in my opinion.

Will have the meeting with said tenents and proceed further with the PRTB option but I can see this being a long drawn out affair despite the levels of tension and stress caused by these people.

Pawwed Rig

Send a letter to your local TD about the issue. The council don't want to know as they will have to rehouse the anti socials and will have more hassle for themselves. The Guards are in a no win situation.

eamonn3974

Is there anyone out there with any legal background or wisdom that can clarify the situation with the filming of ongoing anti social behaviours. Is it legal or not and can it be used as evidence without liability?

cerastes

eamonn3974 wrote: »

Is there anyone out there with any legal background or wisdom that can clarify the situation with the filming of ongoing anti social behaviours. Is it legal or not and can it be used as evidence without liability?

Im sure you wont get legal advice here, but when I put cameras up, I heard that you could not point them at private property or have footage of private property, I cant see why you couldnt have them pointed at your own property and possibly whats public, but dont quote me on that, as Im not a legal anything.
Better to have statements from individuals, their testimony, all in PRTB, its the only way to go.
Assuming you have made every effort to contact the landlord and if you can ensure you insist they ensure their own obligations to the neighbours of their tenants and the tenants obligations regarding anti social behaviour is complied with, if they cant or wont do anything, you have them, now you need to gather some statements, and a chronological list of events written down, that would suffice, with other neighbours on your side, better still.

eamonn3974

cerastes wrote: »

Im sure you wont get legal advice here, but when I put cameras up, I heard that you could not point them at private property or have footage of private property, I cant see why you couldnt have them pointed at your own property and possibly whats public, but dont quote me on that, as Im not a legal anything.
Better to have statements from individuals, their testimony, all in PRTB, its the only way to go.
Assuming you have made every effort to contact the landlord and if you can ensure you insist they ensure their own obligations to the neighbours of their tenants and the tenants obligations regarding anti social behaviour is complied with, if they cant or wont do anything, you have them, now you need to gather some statements, and a chronological list of events written down, that would suffice, with other neighbours on your side, better still.

Thanks again for the insight. We had a full list of events with dates, times, photos and vid to support some and a couple of statements from the locals. The vid we have is the area directly infront of our property so I think we're clear on the issue of other properties privacy. Still having a job getting the landlords details though, have made enquiries with PRTB but awaiting reply so fingers crossed some good will come of it.
Thanks again,

cerastes

eamonn3974 wrote: »

Thanks again for the insight. We had a full list of events with dates, times, photos and vid to support some and a couple of statements from the locals. The vid we have is the area directly infront of our property so I think we're clear on the issue of other properties privacy. Still having a job getting the landlords details though, have made enquiries with PRTB but awaiting reply so fingers crossed some good will come of it.
Thanks again,

You need to seek professional advice on the camera stuff, not just my opinion, dont get stung yourself.

eamonn3974

Found out that cameras can be used once 1.they do not breach the threhold of anothers property..I.e.they dont film into someone elses front door, windows or living space.
2.once disclaimers are clearly displayed stating that survailance is actively carried out.
3.once they have just cause for being set up I.e.security or behaviour concerns.

But worth noting here, apparently if any minor is documented in the footage damaging property ( in our most recent case, 6 year old clearly seen picking up an object and smashing our car window while an occupied squad car was parked in the block) then the evidence makes no difference as a criminal/anti social complaint cannot be made against a child or that childs parent.
Basically, kids can do what they like whether its documented with survailance or not and thst came from the guards themselves so back to the prtb drawing board and private solictors for a solution.