NBA Season Thread 2013-2014

padraig_f

Couple of value-bets on Bradley Beal (6.5/1) and Marco Belinelli (8.5/1) to win the 3-point contest, though obviously Curry is the man to beat.

ButtersSuki

padraig_f wrote: »

Couple of value-bets on Bradley Beal (6.5/1) and Marco Belinelli (8.5/1) to win the 3-point contest, though obviously Curry is the man to beat.

Haven't looked at the odds but Kevin Love would be a good bet IMO. His shooting style in particular makes him a very solid bet as he expends less energy per shot than any of his smaller challengers. He can effectively shoot 3s as set shots while the rest of the field will be shooting jumpers. May sound like a non issue in a minute of shooting but fatigue does play a part in this as the rounds wear on. Seriously! If I wasn't so flipping tired I could write a thesis on the mechanics x efficiency x repetition on this……..have I bored anyone yet? :rolleyes:

buyer95

ButtersSuki wrote: »

That's really big of him……..:rolleyes:

Though it will likely be spun positively from a PR perspective, that says (or rather confirms) a few things about Melo to me, namely

He'd rather be a big fish is a small pond (from a team perspective - and by team I mean a team that actually has a chance of winning a championship), than play on a contender with a lesser role. Let's be honest here, NY are not going to win a championship in Melo's career span. He's making this "gesture' to get the fans and NY media onside and continue to fawn at his every move, but the reality is Melo will have banked more money by the time he reties than all of us on boards could ever spend so it's not about the money. It's an ego play.

From a sports psychology perspective, I genuinely wonder if Melo is one of those guys who's afraid of winning. Were it not so late, I'd expand on this a little. He strikes me as being very comfortable.

To use an Eamon Dunphy expression - he's the big man for the small occasion

Harsh, very harsh. Would you have been happier if he had taken the 120 million max deal, atleast by taking a pay cut he is giving the knicks a chance to get in better players. Melo is still only 30, and Stat's toxic contract is up next season which means the Knicks will have some serious cap wiggle room. Players want to play in NY so they could sign a really high quality player which could make them into an elite team. It's not unforceable.
He's on a terrible team right now and as Oscar Robertson said earlier today he has little to no help. Chandler went down, he led the team in rebounds, Woodie can't run an offense, and just puts the ball in his hands with the shot clock ticking down and yet he's shooting the best 3 point percentage of his career and also shooting well from the field considering the amount of shots he has to take because the knicks just don't have enough offensively.
Why should Melo bail on NY, and try and go down the super-team route of Lebron? The league is better with the best players spread throughout all the league, and there is something admirable about sticking with a team and trying to build something as opposed to the whole players orchestrating the creation of super teams. Melo is flawed, I'm not saying that he isn't, and Butters I respect your basketball knowledge highly, and always enjoy your posts on here. You know the game extremely well, but I think your wrong about Melo.

Oh Melo, all that talent and no heart or killer instinct. Shame

He didn't lack heart when he led unranked Syracuse to their first NCAA title as a freshman, winning the tournaments best overall player award.

padraig_f

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Haven't looked at the odds but Kevin Love would be a good bet IMO. His shooting style in particular makes him a very solid bet as he expends less energy per shot than any of his smaller challengers. He can effectively shoot 3s as set shots while the rest of the field will be shooting jumpers. May sound like a non issue in a minute of shooting but fatigue does play a part in this as the rounds wear on. Seriously! If I wasn't so flipping tired I could write a thesis on the mechanics x efficiency x repetition on this……..have I bored anyone yet? :rolleyes:

Let's see, the fact that he has the lowest career 3P% of the 8 contestants kinda put me off
Also he's in the bad half of the draw, in the West side with Curry.

ButtersSuki

padraig_f wrote: »

Let's see, the fact that he has the lowest career 3P% of the 8 contestants kinda put me off
Also he's in the bad half of the draw, in the West side with Curry.

But he has won the 3pt contest previously…….

Dublin Red Devil

Predictions

Skills = Oladipo
"Dunker of the night"(fan voted) = George
3pt = Love
All Star = East
MVP = James

padraig_f

ButtersSuki wrote: »

But he has won the 3pt contest previously…….

Small sample size, I trust the career stats more. Here are the career shooting stats for the 8 contestants....

East
Afflalo 39%
Beal 40%
Irving 38%
Johnson 37%

West
Curry 44%
Lillard 38%
Love 36%
Belinelli 39%

Anyone in the West is at a disadvantage having to get by Curry to make the final. It's different shooting spot up shots than in a game, but I reckon Curry has the most to gain there, he probably takes more than anyone else in-game off the dribble, which makes his career shooting of 44% pretty amazing.

ec18

Dublin Red Devil wrote: »

Predictions

Skills = Oladipo
"Dunker of the night"(fan voted) = George
3pt = Love
All Star = East
MVP = James

if ben pulls off the 720 he's been talking about I'd say he'll win dunker of the night.

ButtersSuki

buyer95 wrote: »

Harsh, very harsh. Would you have been happier if he had taken the 120 million max deal, atleast by taking a pay cut he is giving the knicks a chance to get in better players. Melo is still only 30, and Stat's toxic contract is up next season which means the Knicks will have some serious cap wiggle room. Players want to play in NY so they could sign a really high quality player which could make them into an elite team. It's not unforceable.
He's on a terrible team right now and as Oscar Robertson said earlier today he has little to no help. Chandler went down, he led the team in rebounds, Woodie can't run an offense, and just puts the ball in his hands with the shot clock ticking down and yet he's shooting the best 3 point percentage of his career and also shooting well from the field considering the amount of shots he has to take because the knicks just don't have enough offensively.
Why should Melo bail on NY, and try and go down the super-team route of Lebron? The league is better with the best players spread throughout all the league, and there is something admirable about sticking with a team and trying to build something as opposed to the whole players orchestrating the creation of super teams. Melo is flawed, I'm not saying that he isn't, and Butters I respect your basketball knowledge highly, and always enjoy your posts on here. You know the game extremely well, but I think your wrong about Melo.



He didn't lack heart when he led unranked Syracuse to their first NCAA title as a freshman, winning the tournaments best overall player award.

I could write all day about Melo……but I'm too tired. I'll revisit in the morning but some quick pointers.

Firstly, in case you've forgotten - he bailed on Denver to go to NY and join STAT to create a super team! It backfired badly when STAT got injured and Steve Nash never joined to create Part 3 of that super team and now he's (Melo) trying to reposition himself as some sort of saviour for not taking a max. This is a PR move!

From a playing perspective, check his close-out/game on the line stats. They are absolutely awful for an elite player. Shockingly bad. I can't remember them off by heart and I'm genuinely too tired to go googling and compiling them but I think even the most die-hard Melo fan would struggle to justify them.

Hi pro playoff record is also really bad.

I'm not saying he doesn't have serious game. He does. Check my posts and you'll see that way before Christmas I gave him major props for his rebounding efforts this year. However, that aside, he has consistently failed to do some of the things required of those who wish to become truly elite - namely, drive your team to a championship (pro-game, not college), make your teammates better, and evolve your game accordingly as the team changes and evolves over the years.

Melo has developed one thing since he came into the league - Melo, and specifically his own stats, and specifically scoring. That's not how you win in a team game. To be really crude, Melo is a gunner. I've said before on here that I get the impression he's one of those guys who'd rather score 50 and lose than score 4 and win, and I stick by that given the evidence I see before me and the sound bytes you hear both from and about the guy.

I'll use KD as a counter balance. The guy was perceived in some quarters as "only" a scorer (dare I say even gunner) but has worked on all aspects of his game every year since coming into the league. He has carried a supporting cast that's not astonishingly better than NY's on his shoulders since Westbrook went down and done so without complaining once. Melo does moan, and that's unfortunate. KD has shown serious playoff progression too each year and but for Westbrook going down last year in that freak injury, who knows how far they'd have pushed Miami last year?

Yes he's on a crap team with a not exactly amazon coach and a useless front office, but he just strikes me as a guy who has every excuse under the sun ready to roll off for the next loss.

Thanks for the props on your post though - much appreciated. I played with one or two guys like Melo (obviously nowhere near that standard!) back in the day and I assure you it's incredibly frustrating to play with a guy like that. He's genuinely part of the problem with that team as guys go into their shell when he's on the floor - they all adjust for Melo, not the other way around.

ButtersSuki

padraig_f wrote: »

Small sample size, I trust the career stats more. Here are the career shooting stats for the 8 contestants....

East
Afflalo 39%
Beal 40%
Irving 38%
Johnson 37%

West
Curry 44%
Lillard 38%
Love 36%
Belinelli 39%

Anyone in the West is at a disadvantage having to get by Curry to make the final. It's different shooting spot up shots than in a game, but I reckon Curry has the most to gain there, he probably takes more than anyone else in-game off the dribble, which makes his career shooting of 44% pretty amazing.

Oh no doubt Curry is the best in-game shooter in the game right now. I love watching him play and I love watching him shoot, but this is not a game situation, hence why I think Love is a real dark horse here. Curry's prob my favorite player in the league at the moment (check my pets over the last couple of years to see how much I've bigged him up) but honestly, I've seen Love shoot in practice and it's effortless. Different style and different mechanics, but the key thing is efficiency. He expends so little energy shooting it's almost unreal watching it, his wrist action and follow though and natural arc are insane. He has a number of advantages going into this over smaller players. But a 3 point contest is all about momentum. You make a few in a row and suddenly the basket seems as big as a house and the shots just go in like layups.

padraig_f

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Oh no doubt Curry is the best in-game shooter in the game right now. I love watching him play and I love watching him shoot, but this is not a game situation, hence why I think Love is a real dark horse here. Curry's prob my favorite player in the league at the moment (check my pets over the last couple of years to see how much I've bigged him up) but honestly, I've seen Love shoot in practice and it's effortless. Different style and different mechanics, but the key thing is efficiency. He expends so little energy shooting it's almost unreal watching it, his wrist action and follow though and natural arc are insane. He has a number of advantages going into this over smaller players. But a 3 point contest is all about momentum. You make a few in a row and suddenly the basket seems as big as a house and the shots just go in like layups.

Yeah, I wasn't sure how to adjust for spot-up versus in-game, so just went with career stats. Bradley Beal may be underrated going by his career stats, as he's only in his second year. Shot 38% in his rookie year, and is up to 43% this year, which is probably more reflective of where he is right now.

Nuri Sahin

Silver says the NBA is still headed towards putting ads on jerseys, ugh.

Nuri Sahin

Me and my wallet will be rooting for Affalo and Beal in the 3 Point Contest at any rate, Beal in particular has been killer from beyond the arc this season.

buyer95

ButtersSuki wrote: »

I could write all day about Melo……but I'm too tired. I'll revisit in the morning but some quick pointers.

Firstly, in case you've forgotten - he bailed on Denver to go to NY and join STAT to create a super team! It backfired badly when STAT got injured and Steve Nash never joined to create Part 3 of that super team and now he's (Melo) trying to reposition himself as some sort of saviour for not taking a max. This is a PR move!

From a playing perspective, check his close-out/game on the line stats. They are absolutely awful for an elite player. Shockingly bad. I can't remember them off by heart and I'm genuinely too tired to go googling and compiling them but I think even the most die-hard Melo fan would struggle to justify them.

Hi pro playoff record is also really bad.

I'm not saying he doesn't have serious game. He does. Check my posts and you'll see that way before Christmas I gave him major props for his rebounding efforts this year. However, that aside, he has consistently failed to do some of the things required of those who wish to become truly elite - namely, drive your team to a championship (pro-game, not college), make your teammates better, and evolve your game accordingly as the team changes and evolves over the years.

Melo has developed one thing since he came into the league - Melo, and specifically his own stats, and specifically scoring. That's not how you win in a team game. To be really crude, Melo is a gunner. I've said before on here that I get the impression he's one of those guys who'd rather score 50 and lose than score 4 and win, and I stick by that given the evidence I see before me and the sound bytes you hear both from and about the guy.

I'll use KD as a counter balance. The guy was perceived in some quarters as "only" a scorer (dare I say even gunner) but has worked on all aspects of his game every year since coming into the league. He has carried a supporting cast that's not astonishingly better than NY's on his shoulders since Westbrook went down and done so without complaining once. Melo does moan, and that's unfortunate. KD has shown serious playoff progression too each year and but for Westbrook going down last year in that freak injury, who knows how far they'd have pushed Miami last year?

Yes he's on a crap team with a not exactly amazon coach and a useless front office, but he just strikes me as a guy who has every excuse under the sun ready to roll off for the next loss.

Thanks for the props on your post though - much appreciated. I played with one or two guys like Melo (obviously nowhere near that standard!) back in the day and I assure you it's incredibly frustrating to play with a guy like that. He's genuinely part of the problem with that team as guys go into their shell when he's on the floor - they all adjust for Melo, not the other way around.

I can't disagree with most of your points, but I would make a passing comment on his stats for when the game is on the line in New York. No disputing the stats are terrible here, but I honestly think that some of this is down to Woodie's inability to draw up good plays out of timeouts, and instead just says to Melo, "Go win us the game" and iso-Melo is the play. The other team knows what is coming and can react accordingly. Karl obviously was much better at set plays out of timeouts, lets not forget he was considered one of the best players in the clutch while in Denver.

As for calling taking a pay cut a PR move, would you have preferred if he had just said, "Nah we not going to win anything anyway, I might as well make as much dough as I can."? Then you would probably be saying that he doesn't care about winning. I honestly believe Melo cares a great deal about winning, but in his head he believes that the only way his team can win is with him taking lots of shots every night as he is the bestr player. He is a flawed, and I don't think his "gunner" style will ever change, but you can win with gunners, you just need good coaching. Kobe had Phil, and if the Zen Master were coaching in NY right now, I believe the Knicks would be a lot better than what they are right now.

In short, I agree with a lot of what your saying overall, but I do think you are overly harsh on him.

NufcNavan

If they can bring in 2k style cameras to broadcasting that would be cool

PizzamanIRL

Kevin Hart won the MVP award last night through fan voting so I think you can give George the trophy now.

buyer95

For one night only I will be V.P of the "Paul George Superstar" supporters club. Go win the dunk contest and make me some money George, and DRD happy!:P

Paully D

Cool picture of the last time Dell and Steph Curry were on the same court during All-Star Weekend:

buyer95

Tonight is Shaq's time to shine, I'm predicting he does something unexpected like end up out on the court or something like that. Kenny can hardly talk, Chuck looks quite rough too, I think they may have enjoyed opening night of the all star weekend!

Dublin Red Devil

buyer95 wrote: »

For one night only I will be V.P of the "Paul George Superstar" supporters club. Go win the dunk contest and make me some money George, and DRD happy!:P

Preaching to the converted:D

PizzamanIRL

Manny Harris was getting heavy minutes with the Lakers a couple weeks ago and here he is now playing in the D-League All Star Game. Wouldn't want to have a huge ego problem.

Dublin Red Devil

Watching Sears shooting stars right now. TNT

Paully D

So. Many. Advert. Breaks.

:mad::mad::mad:

PizzamanIRL

They're not showing the Shooting Stars on my cheapskate link

Mightn't be a bad thing though. This D-League game is entertaining so far

buyer95

Like a Bosh.

Dublin Red Devil

PizzamanIRL wrote: »

They're not showing the Shooting Stars on my cheapskate link

Its on TNT Thers been 2 rounds. Team Bosh beat Team Hardaway. Team Durrant beat Team Curry. Final is Chris Bosh, Swin Cash and Dominique Wilkins Vs Durrant, Skyler Diggins and Karl Malone

Bosh wins it. Chris nailed 2 half court shots.

Taco Bell Skills challenge up next

Nuri Sahin

Bosh is god :pac:

Paully D

Seriously impressive from Bosh. Matter of time before he starts shooting those in games :pac:

Nuri Sahin

Cliff Paul needs to assist in removing Nick Cannon out of the arena.

buyer95

Have to love Bosh, he's hilariously weird!