Irish Driver Harris

She bangs She bangs

Is Irish Driver Harris still operating as a company in New Ross?

Remember applying to them years ago after I finished college, they employed quite a few (50+??)

If they are still going and doing well, be nice to know as New ross isnt exactly a thriving town full of employment.

Down South

Still open. Not sure how many employed

road_high

Did they have something in Kilkenny as well or am I imagining it?

Down South

They are now located on the Kilkenny side of New Ross

JR Ewing

New Ross thriving? What a joke.

As the most inland port in Ireland it actually should be one of the most prosperous areas in The South East particularly when you image that on top of Albatros, Stafford Shipping, Hartman, Irish Driver Harris etc etc they also had 3 major oil importers in Texaco, Campus & Esso all based in or around the town. They are almost all gone now with Nolan Transport & Lake Region the only employers of substance i.e. 50-100+ but considering there is massive unemployment in the town they had to "import" the majority of their employees from Eastern Europe- nothing against that when you cant get the locals to work.

The most popular word in New Ross is "entitled" and receiving social welfare is a family business which has been passed on through the generations. The town is absolutely dying on it's feet which can be directly attributed to left wing trade unionism which closed almost every factory which had set up in the area. There are 100s of great people in New Ross but unless there is a major change in work ethic for the general population the town will disappear off the map and become a real ghetto. I drive through there most days & it is terrible to see so many places closed down etc. I have a friend with a business in New Ross & he tells me that the opinion of wages is only the bit over what they would get on the dole i.e. if dole is €200 pw & a wage is €350 pw the attitude of his staff is that they are working for "only" €150 pw? Unreal!!

I worked for a short time with one of the oil importers in Ross & it was just incredible what went on. You would be reprimanded by the shop steward for actually doing a days work- it was no surprise to me that the company bailed out as it was just comical the amount of skiving and dossing that was going on- no employer could stick it. Anecdotally we used hear that the same was the case in Hartman and Albatros- the unions actually bullied the companies into submission- the least thing and all workers would just down tools until they got what they wanted. In the long run though the employers just couldn't take it & pulled out so who really lost? New Ross.

I would dearly love to see New Ross thriving as it has many good things going for it but until there is a major cultural and mindset change I can't ever see it happening. Most likely it will be bypassed by 2015 but in my mind it has been bypassed since the 1990's as there is higher unemployment in New Ross now than at any point in the past and it has lost it's market town function to economically astute urban centres such as Waterford, Wexford & Kilkenny. A major political leader is needed badly for New Ross before it is too late.

I am sorry if anyone from New Ross doesn't like my comments but unfortunately that is how the town is now percieved (other than the base for The Dunbrody Famine Ship). Like I say I actually have a soft spot for Ross & am only being honest. What perception to other people have of New Ross?

St Senan

Jr Ewing if you remove the company names and replace them with Wexal, Alcast, Minch Norton, Davis mills to name but a few, Then you would be describing Enniscorthy. All i hear every week from locals is them foreigners are getting everything handed to them for nothing them foreigners have taken all our jobs. Sure its no wonder half of eastern Europe and Africa have moved here with the wonderful social welfare system we have here in Ireland .

1 thing is for certain you wont see any foreigners standing out side the Dole Pubs every Monday and Tuesday having a fag. When the country was booming it was the non nationals who made the breakfast rolls, washed cars, served petrol and diesel. The Irish people didn't want the poor payed jobs they wanted the building boom money. Now that boom is gone and the non nationals are still working in the poor payed jobs you have the whingers giving out. And it is true in what you are saying if dole is €200 pw & a wage is €350 pw the attitude of people is that they are working for "only" €150 pw and they will lose their entitlements.

Monday or Tuesday night the €3 a pint night has now become the weekend for the majority of Ireland.

In the UK a single person gets roughly £75 a week to live on with rent and living deductions taken out of that before He/She can withdraw it.

If that type of deductions happened here in Ireland to some ones €180 a week dole. It would be classed as discrimination.

In the USA if you are unemployed you only get living expenses for roughly 6 months then you get food stamps. You have to get off your backside and find any sort of work. Even if you were a Qualified Genius with letters after your name you could still end up been a cashier in wall-mart.

Its a right auld country we live in for sure.

vicwatson

Hard to be positive in this country at the moment, we need to wipe the slate and start again. It's ****ing depressing, and it doesn't have to be this way.

St Senan

I agree 100%. The whole political system in this country is useless the FF coalition were the villains the last time. The FG coalition are in power now and they are the villains. Whoever takes over the next time will be the same after a short while. Can the people who vote for these politicians and put them in power not see this. I am very surprised that there has not been a breakaway party formed called ME' FEIN. Either hand the running of the country over to the top 10 business people in Ireland (governed by a panel) and let get back on its feet Or else declare the country a Communist/ Socialist 1 and have everyone classed as equal. Its time for the main party's to move on (they had their time) and let the people say who runs the country. I wont be voting for FF. FG. Lab, Greens,SF. They have done absolutely nothing for me as a self employed tax payer. I am entitled to Sweet feck all on this Desert Ireland.

JR Ewing

Navarre wrote: »

I agree 100%. The whole political system in this country is useless the FF coalition were the villains the last time. The FG coalition are in power now and they are the villains. Whoever takes over the next time will be the same after a short while. Can the people who vote for these politicians and put them in power not see this. I am very surprised that there has not been a breakaway party formed called ME' FEIN. Either hand the running of the country over to the top 10 business people in Ireland (governed by a panel) and let get back on its feet Or else declare the country a Communist/ Socialist 1 and have everyone classed as equal. Its time for the main party's to move on (they had their time) and let the people say who runs the country. I wont be voting for FF. FG. Lab, Greens,SF. They have done absolutely nothing for me as a self employed tax payer. I am entitled to Sweet feck all on this Desert Ireland.

Firstly cards on the table I am a former FF voter and would still have tendencies more to FF/FG i.e. pro business parties than the other options. I would 100% agree that FF left the country in an almighty mess- much of it as a result of "buying" election after election, having a zero regulation system for the nations financial services sector & allowing the notion of "social partnership" in dealing with civil service unions which led to overnight 30% pay increases called benchmarking and reduced working hours & also one of the most lucrative social welfare systems in the world. These legacies would be enough to break the notion on their own but if that wasn't bad enough we had to provide a state guarantee over our rapidly sinking banks as well- to be fair to Brian Lenihan he didn't really have much of a choice & very little time to make it plus the not surprising fact that he had been fed lies and misinformation by Anglo. That really put a lid on it altogether (having said that if he hadn't have guaranteed the banks Ireland Ltd was bust the next day & we would have been all out of business within a week)

FG then inherited a country listing like a boat taking water & had to go cap in hand to IMF/ECB plus they had to mak some very unpopular decisions which I personally didn't think they would have the stomach for BUT they are at least trying to bring us to recovery. Of course they will be unpopular for cuts and increased taxes etc BUT at least they showed the balls to do it (I suppose there is also the element of IMF/ECB behind them with a big stick too but at least they are trying). The other point I would make is that the country is not ran by politicians it is ran by civil servants- everyone complains about politicians pay but they are less than 200 of the countries +220,000 civil servants- they just happen to be the 200 most visible. FF agreed to Croke Park 1 when the country hadn't a penny & at least FG are now staring down the ASTI who voted against Haddington Road (just tell you how many ASTI members who earn over €65,000 every year). Let me put it another way- the country is certainly in a stronger position financially, has a better reputation internationally and is closer to recovery (albeit a long way away) than when FG took over the reins? Yes the boat is still leaky but there was water coming over the sides when they took over. I would never be an FG voter but I can give them some credit for taking on a dirty job.

I feel your frustration at politicians BUT we rather than throwing the baby out with the bath water I think what we need is a reformed civil service with meaningful productivity measures, the same job security as private sector workers i.e. NONE (if you mess up or are incompetent you lose your job not get promoted!!), and defined contribution pensions (same as the rest of us). Reform the social welfare system (use finger print/retina recognition software to stop rogues drawing multiple dole), recruit a social welfare inspector for every parish in the country to investigate bogus/fraudlent claims, reduce social welfare rates across the boards to EU averages but leave the pension and sickness benefits alone. By the way as a self employed man you should also be entitled to social welfare if your business fails it is ridiculous that your staff can claim but you currently can't even though you were the man taking the risks. Introduce a 3rd rate of tax for all earners over €127,000 (you earn more you pay more), introduce a 1c tax on every text message sent in the state (would raise a fortune), tax online gambling and reintroduce betting tax into shops. Perhaps they could use a panel of business people for advice on how to get changes right but it would never work to have a business team running the country as many would have no social conscience.

She bangs She bangs

Wow, wasnt expecting the above reaction.

Firstly I never said that New Ross was thriving...the very opposite.

My dad worked in Ross Co. back in the day which you can add to the list of great companies that have fallen away due to unions.

A lot of what is stated above is true. But the "sense of entitlement" doesnt only exist in New Ross. Im a New Ross man working in waterford. Traditionally, waterford was/is a very unionised city. Im sure it exists elsewhere.

I suppose I was trying to find something good in my OP (If it existed) in terms of employment in New Ross.

cabledude

IDH is still operating. In or around 50 people working in New Ross and a couple of salesmen on the road. Also a couple of commercial people in the UK.

At one point IDH employed 150 people in Ireland - New Ross 120(Production), KIlkenny 8(Production) and Dublin 22(Support)

Over the years the company has contracted and concentrated on certain specific product lines which are not as labour intensive as previous which has resulted in the downsizing of operations and staff numbers. All manufacturing and admin is now done in New Ross. Kilkenny and Dublin were shut down and all activities were moved to New Ross plant.

bmaxi

She bangs She bangs wrote: »

Wow, wasnt expecting the above reaction.

Firstly I never said that New Ross was thriving...the very opposite.

My dad worked in Ross Co. back in the day which you can add to the list of great companies that have fallen away due to unions.

A lot of what is stated above is true. But the "sense of entitlement" doesnt only exist in New Ross. Im a New Ross man working in waterford. Traditionally, waterford was/is a very unionised city. Im sure it exists elsewhere.

I suppose I was trying to find something good in my OP (If it existed) in terms of employment in New Ross.

That's a very sweeping statement about trade unions. While it's true there have been silly disputes over the years, this can equally be due to poor management as to militant unionism. The public service is a typical example of this, where promotions are often based on length of service rather than ability and senior management appointments can be unduly influenced by politicians, the result of all this is a buck that stops nowhere.
The biggest single cause of job losses is the dreaded phrase "market forces", if a company, particularly a multi-national, can do business more cheaply elsewhere then they'll be gone, simple as that. Their responsibility is to shareholders and the last item on their list of priorities is their employees, why do you think there has been such a scandal recently over the tax liabilities of the likes of Google and Apple? Take away the tax position and both would be in India or Indonesia tomorrow and fcuk the hundreds of employees or the effect on the Irish economy. What major industrial dispute took Dell out of Limerick or Coca Cola out of Dublin? The same will happen in the IT industry,they are happy to operate in Ireland while the tax regime is favourable because of the numbers of skilled workers here but as soon as those skills become available in a lower cost economy then bye-bye.
Until 1989 I was employed by a company who had had a presence in Ireland foe 82 years, in those 82 years not one single hour was lost to industrial action but where are they now? Their products are all household names and are available all over the world but not one single job remains in this country, this is market forces in action.
So before you go throwing all the blame for job losses and industry pull outs on the trade unions just remember the reason why trade unions exist at all, which is to protect the lives and livelihoods of their members, something which has never been high on the employers' list of priorities.

She bangs She bangs

Very sweeping and I apologise.

I take your point that Unions are there to protect the worker and by no means are Unions to attributed to the closure/failure of all companies that have them.

That said,

There are companies that have been ruined by unions.

I know of a case of a lady who was pulled up by her manager for "working too hard" She would assemble much more than her quota of parts per day. The Union found out about this because a colleague of hers complained.

I mean how can a company survive when the likes of this goes on?

Another case of a guy who picked up a sweeping brush to clean up a mess he made. Again, because of the area the mess was in, he was pulled up by
the union because he was "doing someone elses job". That someone else saw him and reported him.

ABB Transformers in Waterford, Anyone I talk to about that place tells me that the unions played a huge part in the factory closing.

Unions are there to protect the people, help provide a safe place to work, and ensure that the workers are compensated fairly for the work they do.

Plenty have gone too far though.

bmaxi

She bangs She bangs wrote: »

Very sweeping and I apologise.

I take your point that Unions are there to protect the worker and by no means are Unions to attributed to the closure/failure of all companies that have them.

That said,

There are companies that have been ruined by unions.

I know of a case of a lady who was pulled up by her manager for "working too hard" She would assemble much more than her quota of parts per day. The Union found out about this because a colleague of hers complained.

I mean how can a company survive when the likes of this goes on?

Another case of a guy who picked up a sweeping brush to clean up a mess he made. Again, because of the area the mess was in, he was pulled up by
the union because he was "doing someone elses job". That someone else saw him and reported him.

ABB Transformers in Waterford, Anyone I talk to about that place tells me that the unions played a huge part in the factory closing.

Unions are there to protect the people, help provide a safe place to work, and ensure that the workers are compensated fairly for the work they do.

Plenty have gone too far though.

If all the anecdotal evidence I heard regarding my own job were to be believed it wouldn't have lasted 2 years never mind 82 but I do take your point to some extent.
Restrictive practices have been a problem in places where, craft unions particularly, are interspersed with lay unions. Again this would be a case of the union protecting the interests of it's members. You must remember tradesmen had served up to seven years at minimal pay to acquire certain skills and among those skills may have been nominal skills which could be performed by anyone with average intelligence. Let's face it, many of us have changed oil and filters on our cars but how many would change a timing belt or pistons? The result was that all the skills became recognised as being within the remit of a certain craft and agreements would be drawn up between the unions and management to this effect. Often though, management would try to circumvent these agreements by using general workers to perform the more mundane tasks agreed as being within the remit of the craft union and boom!!! I have long believed that militant unionism among the craft unions would not have evolved if agreements had been honoured, paranoia crept in and craft union members would be looking out for the slightest infringement
Weak management is also an overlooked factor. Too many managers just wanted a quiet life in their well paid positions and were prepared to sell the company out to achieve this. You only have to look at the debacle of benchmarking in the public service for an example of managers, in the form of the government, agreeing to unsustainable terms for employees in order to line their own pockets. There were many examples of this in the private sector too.

cabledude

She bangs She bangs wrote: »

Very sweeping and I apologise.

I take your point that Unions are there to protect the worker and by no means are Unions to attributed to the closure/failure of all companies that have them.

That said,

There are companies that have been ruined by unions.

I know of a case of a lady who was pulled up by her manager for "working too hard" She would assemble much more than her quota of parts per day. The Union found out about this because a colleague of hers complained.

I mean how can a company survive when the likes of this goes on?

Another case of a guy who picked up a sweeping brush to clean up a mess he made. Again, because of the area the mess was in, he was pulled up by
the union because he was "doing someone elses job". That someone else saw him and reported him.

ABB Transformers in Waterford, Anyone I talk to about that place tells me that the unions played a huge part in the factory closing.

Unions are there to protect the people, help provide a safe place to work, and ensure that the workers are compensated fairly for the work they do.

Plenty have gone too far though.

I never worked there, and its closed now so I'm free to mention its name, but I heard stories about Bemico/Hartman that beggar belief. Among them the sweeping brush carry on but one I heard was just incredible. I heard that if mechanics were in on a Saturday doing maintenance on a machine, general operatives would have to be on site to 'tidy' up.The tidying up would involve sweeping up, bringing rubbish to the skip etc etc. Rubbish that was part of the maintenance of the machinery. Bearing boxes, dust, spilled oil etc. Why would any company hang around in circumstances where mechanics will not even tidy up after themselves. They used the argument that they were highly skilled bla bla bla. No one, I mean , no one is above cleaning up after themselves. The management of Hartman apparently got fed up with the militancy of the unions and moved to, I think, Holland.

bmaxi

cabledude wrote: »

I never worked there, and its closed now so I'm free to mention its name, but I heard stories about Bemico/Hartman that beggar belief. Among them the sweeping brush carry on but one I heard was just incredible. I heard that if mechanics were in on a Saturday doing maintenance on a machine, general operatives would have to be on site to 'tidy' up.The tidying up would involve sweeping up, bringing rubbish to the skip etc etc. Rubbish that was part of the maintenance of the machinery. Bearing boxes, dust, spilled oil etc. Why would any company hang around in circumstances where mechanics will not even tidy up after themselves. They used the argument that they were highly skilled bla bla bla. No one, I mean , no one is above cleaning up after themselves. The management of Hartman apparently got fed up with the militancy of the unions and moved to, I think, Holland.

I wouldn't be familiar with the practices in any one company but I find that difficult to believe. From the very first day of an apprenticeship you would be required to know which end of a brush was up and great emphasis was placed on the importance of keeping a clean workspace, if only from a health and safety point of view. The only instance I could think of is where mechanical handling equipment was used, insurance conditions would insist that only qualified persons could operate this and they would usually be general operatives but again, in house rules can vary.

cabledude

bmaxi wrote: »

I wouldn't be familiar with the practices in any one company but I find that difficult to believe. From the very first day of an apprenticeship you would be required to know which end of a brush was up and great emphasis was placed on the importance of keeping a clean workspace, if only from a health and safety point of view. The only instance I could think of is where mechanical handling equipment was used, insurance conditions would insist that only qualified persons could operate this and they would usually be general operatives but again, in house rules can vary.

I heard this from a Union official. I would have no reason not to believe it. That was only one example. I myself, with my own ears, have heard a maintenance chargehand telling a fitter not to bother cleaning up as 'there are plenty of people around here to do that'. It was a flippant, throwaway kind of a remark.

But to be fair that is a world away from the union insisting that general operatives being called in on Saturday overtime to clean up after maintenance.

allthedoyles

To bmaxi - note that cabledude is talking about work practices in a company in the 1980's

cabledude

allthedoyles wrote: »

To bmaxi - note that cabledude is talking about work practices in a company in the 1980's

For the most part. But my own experience of what I heard was around 10'ish years ago.

Dilbert75

Within the last 10 years I've worked in a factory in Waterford city where I was told by a guy on the floor that if I, as an Engineer, so much as picked up a screwdriver that he and his mates would all be out on the road. Management backed down from the threat and I was pulled back from the floor. That company is gradually winding down now after more than a generation of dealing (or not) with this kind of craic.

bmaxi

allthedoyles wrote: »

To bmaxi - note that cabledude is talking about work practices in a company in the 1980's

As was I, my association with large companies ended in 1989. All I can say is, in my experience, the practice he referred to would not and should not have been tolerated. No union could stand over such practice and I can only assume in house agreements were in place, a sign, in my opinion, of poor management.

bmaxi

Dilbert75 wrote: »

Within the last 10 years I've worked in a factory in Waterford city where I was told by a guy on the floor that if I, as an Engineer, so much as picked up a screwdriver that he and his mates would all be out on the road. Management backed down from the threat and I was pulled back from the floor. That company is gradually winding down now after more than a generation of dealing (or not) with this kind of craic.

I've come across this before. When you say you were withdrawn from the floor I assume you were either there in an advisory role, i.e. not a direct employee or contracted in. If you were a card carrying member of the craft union involved, I can't see what the problem would be and I would expect their union official to agree. Did management bring the issue to official level?
This type of Luddite behaviour is ironic for members of a craft union but unfortunately some people are unable to see beyond the noses on their faces.

Tonyaus

All very interesting as I was under the impression from a long way off in Aus that things were improving over there. Obviously not!

insullation

Shame to see irish driver Harris close.

Leo Demidov

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/irish-driver-harris-closes-job-losses-1288298-Jan2014/