Question for Anyone who understands 23andMe and GedMatch

dakid588

I just got my dna results back from 23andMe, which indicated that I was pretty much Irish around 56 percent, and it gave me a 37 percent non-specific European and a 0.1 percent north African result (which was surprising)

That result however annoyed me slightly as a 37 percent nonspecific didint narrow anything down for me on my heritage, so after reading some forums and threads on 23andMe, Gedmatch seemed to be a logical choice in order to narrow my results down.

When I ran my raw data through the GedMatch calculators and used the oracle option sttangely enough Caucuses regions kept popping up in my results.

Below is an example:

96.5% Irish + 3.5% North_Ossetian @ 2.84
2 96.3% Irish + 3.7% Chechen @ 2.84
3 96.7% Irish + 3.3% Adygei @ 2.93
4 97.2% Irish + 2.8% Abhkasian @ 2.93
5 96.7% Irish + 3.3% Balkar @ 2.94
6 96.6% Irish + 3.4% Lezgin @ 2.97
7 97.2% Irish + 2.8% Georgian @ 2.98
8 95.7% West_Scottish + 4.3% North_Ossetian @ 3.02
9 97% Irish + 3% Kumyk @ 3.07
10 95.5% West_Scottish + 4.5% Chechen @ 3.09
11 95.9% West_Scottish + 4.1% Adygei @ 3.15
12 96.5% West_Scottish + 3.5% Abhkasian @ 3.15
13 95.8% West_Scottish + 4.2% Balkar @ 3.16
14 97.3% Irish + 2.7% Nogay @ 3.17
15 96.4% West_Scottish + 3.6% Georgian @ 3.21
16 97.6% Irish + 2.4% Tadjik @ 3.21
17 98.2% Irish + 1.8% Balochi @ 3.25
18 98.3% Irish + 1.7% Brahui @ 3.25
19 98.4% Irish + 1.6% Burusho @ 3.27
20 98.4% Irish + 1.6% Makrani @ 3.28




sorry about the layout would this be a sign that I have Caucuses heritage?? and if so how far back does a 3.7 percent result equal to for example a geat greand parent or much firther back????


Any help would be great, I could have interpreted this wrong as Im knew to this stuff.

Ponster

My understanding is that the 23andme test takes a snapshot of your ancestry as it was about 500 years ago, so you're looking at something much, much further back than recent history.

A couple of the experts will probably be able to help you more but 3.7% looks to be very, very little (considering that I have 3% neanderthal DNA which is 30,000+ years ago).

dakid588

Ponster wrote: »

My understanding is that the 23andme test takes a snapshot of your ancestry as it was about 500 years ago, so you're looking at something much, much further back than recent history.

A couple of the experts will probably be able to help you more but 3.7% looks to be very, very little (considering that I have 3% neanderthal DNA which is 30,000+ years ago).

right ok, from the threads I was looking at though on 23andMe people seemed to be saying that around 10 to 20 percent of a certain area represented something much closer like a grandparent, and something like my 0.1 percent for north African represented hundreds to thousands of years ago if not just noise.... I could be wrong though

Its pretty confusing

Ipso

They look like the Eurogenes k15 score, if do try asking the creator on his site.
http://bga101.blogspot.com/2013/10/eurogenes-k15-now-at-gedmatch.html?m=1

In general any old "exotic" ancestry gets watered down fairly quickly in a mostly Irish family tree.
23andme have a good feature called Countries of Ancestry where you see the background of people who share segments with you. Have a look on that and see if people with a Caucasian background pop up.
Are you from the North west by any chance?
I'm from Donegal and West Scottish pops up for me a lot.

Here is a good forum for genetic matters.
http://www.anthrogenica.com/forum.php

dakid588

Ipso wrote: »

They look like the Eurogenes k15 score, if do try asking the creator on his site.
http://bga101.blogspot.com/2013/10/eurogenes-k15-now-at-gedmatch.html?m=1

In general any old "exotic" ancestry gets watered down fairly quickly in a mostly Irish family tree.
23andme have a good feature called Countries of Ancestry where you see the background of people who share segments with you. Have a look on that and see if people with a Caucasian background pop up.
Are you from the North west by any chance?
I'm from Donegal and West Scottish pops up for me a lot.

Here is a good forum for genetic matters.
http://www.anthrogenica.com/forum.php

Thanks I just took a look at countries of ancestry but looking at it, its giving me a lot of random countries which I suspect is to do with the amount of Irish that have immigrated throughout history, Im getting countries as far spread aprat as the UK, Lativa, Serbia, Spain and even Argentina... if I drop the minimum segment to 5cm I get alot of eastern countries like Russia, Macedonia, Estonia, Poland, Slovakia, Belarus etc.

this is making my head spin hahahaha, Ill take a look at the forum you linked

Ipso

You definitely have a good selection there, are those regions represented by people with four grandparents from there? If not it could be people in the US or other countries that got a lot of emigration and there could be an Irish ancestor they also share. Look on 23andme for info on Doug McDonald, he does genome analysis and may be able to give you more insight.
Also what components did you get percentage wise on the gedmatch test?
Your results are intriguing, keep us posted if you don't mind.

dakid588

Ipso wrote: »

You definitely have a good selection there, are those regions represented by people with four grandparents from there? If not it could be people in the US or other countries that got a lot of emigration and there could be an Irish ancestor they also share. Look on 23andme for info on Doug McDonald, he does genome analysis and may be able to give you more insight.
Also what components did you get percentage wise on the gedmatch test?
Your results are intriguing, keep us posted if you don't mind.

@Ipso I went onto the forum you suggested, one of the moderators explained through my results, according to him Im very much Irish, however slightly more eastern than the average Irish person.

He informed me that it is rather difficult to tell how far back those results maybe. I ran my results on another one of the gedmatch calculators the MDLP 22 and it came out like this:

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 CEU_V (derived) 3.02
2 German_V (derived) 3.1
3 Austrian (derived) 4.29
4 Welsh (derived) 4.48
5 German-North (derived) 5.31
6 Swedish (derived) 5.82
7 CEU (derived) 5.92
8 Norwegian_V (derived) 6.14
9 Hungarian (derived) 6.14
10 German (derived) 6.26
11 British (derived) 6.74
12 Slovenian (derived) 6.81
13 Orcadian (derived) 7.51
14 Croatian (derived) 8.33
15 Swedish_V (derived) 8.42
16 Bosnian (derived) 9.34
17 German-South (derived) 9.38
18 Czech (derived) 9.47
19 Serbian (derived) 10.44
20 Slovakian (derived) 11.05

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 77.4% British (derived) + 22.6% Mordovian (derived) @ 1.96
2 52.1% German (derived) + 47.9% British (derived) @ 2.17
3 72.3% German_V (derived) + 27.7% Norwegian_V (derived) @ 2.19
4 71.2% Orcadian (derived) + 28.8% Latvian_V (derived) @ 2.22
5 73.7% British (derived) + 26.3% Latvian_V (derived) @ 2.28
6 60.2% Welsh (derived) + 39.8% German (derived) @ 2.31
7 73% British (derived) + 27% Ukrainian_V (derived) @ 2.34
8 80.2% CEU (derived) + 19.8% Mordovian (derived) @ 2.35
9 76.6% CEU (derived) + 23.4% Latvian_V (derived) @ 2.35
10 76.5% CEU (derived) + 23.5% Ukrainian-Center (derived) @ 2.35
11 75.9% CEU (derived) + 24.1% Ukrainian_V (derived) @ 2.36
12 73.7% British (derived) + 26.3% Ukrainian-Center (derived) @ 2.38
13 82.4% Welsh (derived) + 17.6% Latvian_V (derived) @ 2.39
14 85.4% Welsh (derived) + 14.6% Tartar_Mishar (derived) @ 2.39
15 98.1% CEU_V (derived) + 1.9% Kalash (derived) @ 2.4
16 96.8% CEU_V (derived) + 3.2% Avar (derived) @ 2.41
17 96.7% CEU_V (derived) + 3.3% Lak (derived) @ 2.41
18 96.7% CEU_V (derived) + 3.3% Tabassaran (derived) @ 2.42
19 96.4% CEU_V (derived) + 3.6% Tadjik (derived) @ 2.42
20 51.7% CEU (derived) + 48.3% German (derived) @ 2.42

dakid588

I think for now the testing is still slightly limited in terms of say haveing a great great grandparent that might be foreign, if they marry into an Irish family where the next few generations remain Irish, the foreign genetics almost gets flushed out and can not show up on dna tests like 23andMe.

I could be wrong but this is what Ive got from what a few people have told me

Ipso

I don't think MLDP has many Irish participants but it may have more Eastern European/West Asian which might help in picking up any link to that region. Likewise with Harrapa.
I recommend the DODECAD one, do the Globe13 and compare to the Irish averages below.
http://dodecad.blogspot.com/2012/10/globe13-calculator.html

You can also view the component results on a chromosome by chromosome basis and you may be able to spot where on a certain chromosome this unusual ancestry is appearing. Then in countries of ancestry on 23andme see do the more Eastern people appear on the same segment.
Also you should invite those people to share genomes, this will allow you to view their countries of ancestry and if they don't have any Irish people appearing on their view then there may be something to the Caucus link and it's not just statistical noise which the 0.1 African most likely is.
You're right about non Irish ancestry getting flushed out as at 10 generations assuming no inbreeding you have over 2,000 people in your family tree.
Out of interest what are your haplogroups?

RGM

You really can't read too much into these things. There are a variety of reasons why the results may not accurately reflect your family tree, the primary reason being these estimations are still in their infancy (or close to it) and another reason being you don't get the same amount of DNA from each of your ancestors.

On 23andMe, is your result in standard mode? Have you looked at speculative mode? Also, 23andMe doesn't have an Irish category, only "British and Irish." I'm assuming you just misspoke?

Another thing to consider as far as GEDmatch goes - it would be rare for an Irish person to come back 100 percent Irish. So, big picture, you could be entirely Irish going back many hundreds of years and still have an odd category with a few percentage points.

dakid588

RGM wrote: »

You really can't read too much into these things. There are a variety of reasons why the results may not accurately reflect your family tree, the primary reason being these estimations are still in their infancy (or close to it) and another reason being you don't get the same amount of DNA from each of your ancestors.

On 23andMe, is your result in standard mode? Have you looked at speculative mode? Also, 23andMe doesn't have an Irish category, only "British and Irish." I'm assuming you just misspoke?

Another thing to consider as far as GEDmatch goes - it would be rare for an Irish person to come back 100 percent Irish. So, big picture, you could be entirely Irish going back many hundreds of years and still have an odd category with a few percentage points.

Hi RGM

Ya I meant to say British and Irish. Um when I put it into speculative mode it just increases the amount of non-specific European I have.

And @Ipso I have taken a look at the gedmtach Diy tool you linked me to but its really confusing hahaha sounds stupid but the instructions dont really help either, is there a tool on the Gedmatch website similar to DIY one you linked me to??

RGM

dakid588 wrote: »

Hi RGM

Ya I meant to say British and Irish. Um when I put it into speculative mode it just increases the amount of non-specific European I have.

In that case, 56 percent British and Irish seems a bit low compared to any Irish people I've seen test there (though, again, you can't assume anything). Do you know much about your family tree?

dakid588

RGM wrote: »

In that case, 56 percent British and Irish seems a bit low compared to any Irish people I've seen test there (though, again, you can't assume anything). Do you know much about your family tree?

Well Im pretty certain on my fathers side of the family they are Irish hundred percent unless there is a realitve a few hundred years back. My fathers sister got tested and it confirms her to be pretty much fully Irish.

On my mothers side there is some speculation that a great great grandparent of mine might be foreign, but I dont have any record proof of that.

In terms of haplogroups my fathers is the R1B and my mothers side is the U5b1b which 23andMe says is not found commonly in Ireland but from other sources it apparently is common in Ireland.

Ipso

dakid588 wrote: »

Hi RGM

Ya I meant to say British and Irish. Um when I put it into speculative mode it just increases the amount of non-specific European I have.

And @Ipso I have taken a look at the gedmtach Diy tool you linked me to but its really confusing hahaha sounds stupid but the instructions dont really help either, is there a tool on the Gedmatch website similar to DIY one you linked me to??

That Dodecad tool is available on gedmatch. On their admixture page select dodecad and the globe13, you can rwfer to the website for Irish averages to see how you compare.
Undortunately tools like this and genetic testing will only highlight potential non Irish ancestry but won't tell you the how and usually the when is way back. For Irish people it's difficult due to lack of paper trails.
On 23andme I have 7 matches within 4th or 5th cousin range and can only confirm the fourth closest match.

dakid588

Ipso wrote: »

That Dodecad tool is available on gedmatch. On their admixture page select dodecad and the globe13, you can rwfer to the website for Irish averages to see how you compare.
Undortunately tools like this and genetic testing will only highlight potential non Irish ancestry but won't tell you the how and usually the when is way back. For Irish people it's difficult due to lack of paper trails.
On 23andme I have 7 matches within 4th or 5th cousin range and can only confirm the fourth closest match.

right just took a look and there is V3 but its categories are slightly different than the categories shown on the spreadsheet and there is a world 9 on the gedmatch

Ipso

Those websites have different calculators, sometimes they give the average results of different populations. Have a look through, see if you can find a post that has something similar on gedmatch.
You will also get an idea of how they work from a theory point of view, plus dodecad has some interesting posts from a historical/anthropological point of view.