do you think the present law on learner permits is hypocritical

ann13

no point debating with a bunch of know it all stick to the law lick arses who make me feel now as if i'm not paranoid enough that I am going to kill someone with bad driving thanks

miss no stars

ann13 wrote: »

I've been reading some threads about people on learner permits going unaccompanied and not displaying their l plates. A lot of people are against people on L plates going unaccompanied and are saying that the deserve to be caught by the guards. So my question is do you think that this is slightly hypocritical. The reason I think this is that these people who are saying this and also the guards that are enforcing this law are people who when they were learning to drive didn't have this law put upon them. They didn't have to work as hard to get their licence did not have to take twelve lessons and fill out a log book and did not live in fear every time they drove that they would be stopped by cops and fined. I was stopped at a check point and when the cop saw that I didn't have a accompanied driver with me gave out stink to me and let me off with a warning. I felt like asking him did you get half the lessons I have already got and what did you have to do to get your licence. I don't have anyone to come with me in a car because my parent died when I was a child and my other parent doesn't have a licence and no one I know will come with me and I just find the law very hypocritical. I can now drive very well after two months of driving and my driving instructor says I will pass the test just waiting for a date. I actually see more dangerous driving from older drivers I can't drive down the street or drive for that long without seeing drivers on their phone. Also all the time not indicating right on roundabouts. It's crazy that certain people from the older generation actually ****ed up our economy for the younger generation and now are putting new laws upon this generation which they never had who ever is making these laws have some audacity learner drivers have enough to concentrate on driving safe besides having to worry if their breaking the law driving unaccompanied. And who says having a licensed driver will make you more safe when my mum comes in the car with me her licence is not valid she would be more likely to cause an accident as she unnerves me because she is a back seat driver. I think it's best to go to a driving instructor as they know how to deal with learner drivers and practice on your own. rant over

I passed my test less than a month ago, so I had all the restrictions in place.

I never drove unaccompanied.

I always had L plates up.

It's not unfair.

Lemme guess, you also think it's grand to go on motorways as a learner?

Ken.

Back in my day you could have 10 pints and drive home. The new law shouldn't apply to me. Laws change. Tough sh!t.

sonny jim bob jones

Yes, they should properly punish learner drivers that are caught driving unaccompanied.

coffee_cake

I had to have an accompanied driver, and not friends with licences less than 2 years, either
I obeyed the law and I probably did get 12 lessons at least all told
So, eh, no

tim3000

I think its a pointless law. As a current learner it severely limits the amount of experience you can get. I agree with L plates though but not with constantly having a fully licensed driver accompany you. Not a lot of good thats gonna do you if some fool speeding hits into you. Pointless law.

Mars Bar

had to get my Dad and my cousin to split the time between them for me to practice first and that was highly inconvenient for everyone but it really has to be done. I learned a lot from my cousin because he was less about instructing and letting me ask the questions than my Dad was.
When I was confident enough, I drove unaccompanied around town and to the local gym and back for a good few months.
That small amount of driving made a huge difference to my driving and my confidence.

You'd nearly get a dose of the ****s when you see a garda car in the vicinity though when ya have L plates and you're on your own!

sonny jim bob jones

tim3000 wrote: »

I think its a pointless law. As a current learner it severely limits the amount of experience you can get. I agree with L plates though but not with constantly having a fully licensed driver accompany you. Not a lot of good thats gonna do you if some fool speeding hits into you. Pointless law.

So you are basically saying anyone should be able to drive unaccompanied with or without any form of license or permit.

bucketybuck

No, you should not be allowed to drive unaccompanied if you have not passed your driving test. Thats, you know, kinda the whole point of having a test.

creep

I've been driving over 2 years on a provisional with no L plates displayed doing around 400KM a week. I find the danger on the road is not the learner drivers but the people who speed, overtake in dangerous areas and do not use their indicators. If a person feels comfortable to drive then no harm driving.

miss no stars

tim3000 wrote: »

As a current learner it severely limits the amount of experience you can get damage you can do through lack of experience reading the road. I agree with L plates.

fyp

miss no stars

creep wrote: »

I've been driving over 2 years on a provisional with no L plates displayed doing around 400KM a week. I find the danger on the road is not the learner drivers but the people who speed, overtake in dangerous areas and do not use their indicators. If a person feels comfortable to drive then no harm driving.

do your test if you're such a great driver

tim3000

sonny jim bob jones wrote: »

So you are basically saying anyone should be able to drive unaccompanied with or without any form of license or permit.

I am saying that once you have obtained your permit and are engaged in driving lessons then its a bit pointless to have a licensed driver beside you in the car at all times. It severely inhibits the amount of time you can practice outside your lessons and also inhibits the freedom driving a car confers on you.

creep

miss no stars wrote: »

do your test if you're such a great driver

Never said I was "such a great driver". It's my choice.

bitburger

I drove around for around 4 years unaccompanied, got my license last year, no guard ever got onto me for it, stupid thing is im going onto my 4th motorbike permit now and i never have or will have to be accompanied as it is illegal for me to carry a pillion. out of all of my friends who now have a full license the ones that drove around unaccompanied were the ones who passed their tests on the first attempt,

does the qualified driver have to be awake and completley sober?

bucketybuck

creep wrote: »

If a person feels comfortable to drive then no harm driving.

Plenty of idiots feel perfectly comfortable driving with five pints in them too.

Paco Rodriguez

I started off driving as a learner with a qualified driver. But following that rule there would be a week or more inbetween lessons, and I found my skills would fade.

So now I drive unaccompanied as at the end of the day, my skills are better with regular practice Not everyone has a wide range of friends and family to rely on.

creep

bucketybuck wrote: »

Plenty of idiots feel perfectly comfortable driving with five pints in them too.

Drink driving, speeding, using a mobile phone are completely different to driving unaccompanied. Having a pink license does not automatically make you a good and safe driver. In fact most people with learner drivers don't break the speed limit, no how to use indicators.

miss no stars

creep wrote: »

Never said I was "such a great driver". It's my choice.

So now you're not such a great driver that you could pass the test?


If you can't pass the test then you lack the skills required to drive safely by yourself. If you lack those skills... You shouldn't be driving by yourself.


So which is it? You're a safe driver who should just do the test and be done with it or you're not able to pass the test and so are unsafe to be on your own?


Either way, I hope you don't kill/injure someone.

tim3000

creep wrote: »

Drink driving, speeding, using a mobile phone are completely different to driving unaccompanied. Having a pink license does not automatically make you a good and safe driver. In fact most people with learner drivers don't break the speed limit, no how to use indicators.

Id agree. I am an overly cautious driver I don't speed or drive recklessly. This comes for beng a learner.

Its a stupid law to be accompanied at all times. Reading there, apparently learner drivers have been involved in 700 fatal road crashes accounting for roughly 1/15 deaths. Its hardly a dis-proportionate amount of fatalities from a sub set of driver. I wonder how many of those were the learners fault.

sonny jim bob jones

creep wrote: »

I've been driving over 2 years on a provisional with no L plates displayed doing around 400KM a week. I find the danger on the road is not the learner drivers but the people who speed, overtake in dangerous areas and do not use their indicators. If a person feels comfortable to drive then no harm driving.

So you think that the other learner drivers are using L plates...strange logic given that you admit to not using them yourself.

miss no stars

tim3000 wrote: »

Id agree. I am an overly cautious driver I don't speed or drive recklessly. This comes for beng a learner.

Its a stupid law to be accompanied at all times. I would love to see the stats (if any) detailing the amount of learner drivers accompanied or otherwise involved in car accidents.

People driving during the first 2 years of being fully licensed cause proportionately the most accidents. Why not learners? Learners are accompanied by someone who can read the road and (without necessarily being conscious of doing so) will say things like "hang back while they do x" or "hang on, don't change lane you've a car in your blind spot"...

creep

miss no stars wrote: »

So now you're not such a great driver that you could pass the test?


If you can't pass the test then you lack the skills required to drive safely by yourself. If you lack those skills... You shouldn't be driving by yourself.


So which is it? You're a safe driver who should just do the test and be done with it or you're not able to pass the test and so are unsafe to be on your own?


Either way, I hope you don't kill/injure someone.

Never applied for the test or bothered to do the lessons, my insurance is only 200 euro more without the full license. I don't have a piece of pink paper to say I have a full license OH NO! It wouldn't bother me which license I had if I killed someone which hopefully will never happen anyone

coffee_cake

creep wrote: »

Having a pink license does not automatically make you a good and safe driver..

But not having one makes it likely you aren't.

Highest proportion of accidents are for recent qualifiers... who have to drive on their own.

creep

tim3000 wrote: »

Id agree. I am an overly cautious driver I don't speed or drive recklessly. This comes for beng a learner.

Its a stupid law to be accompanied at all times. Reading there, apparently learner drivers have been involved in 700 fatal road crashes accounting for roughly 1/15 deaths. Its hardly a dis-proportionate amount of fatalities from a sub set of driver. I wonder how many of those were the learners fault.

So 14/15 full license drivers cause road deaths, that stat makes no sense. Rations of learners to full is way more than 1 to 15. Full license drivers should be off the road if thats the stat

tim3000

miss no stars wrote: »

People driving during the first 2 years of being fully licensed cause proportionately the most accidents. Why not learners? Learners are accompanied by someone who can read the road and (without necessarily being conscious of doing so) will say things like "hang back while they do x" or "hang on, don't change lane you've a car in your blind spot"...

Sorry I was editing my previous post to reflect the stats I have looked up. According to these stats reported on the Independent.ie website 1/15 road deaths are caused involve learner drivers. If at least half of these were the fault of other drivers and not the learners then its not a disproportionate cause of accidents. Especially when compared to fully licensed drivers.

creep

bluewolf wrote: »

But not having one makes it likely you aren't.

Highest proportion of accidents are for recent qualifiers... who have to drive on their own.

Link to that? I usually thought it was young idiotic male drivers that caused the most accidents in their suped up cars

Dravokivich

You can rant all you want but its there for a reason. Driving should never be about you, but always about others on the road. A learner needs time to understand and get used to that. Its not good for'em to be unaccompanied. Theres more to it then shifting gears and applying the brakes correctly. Any monkey can do that.

miss no stars

creep wrote: »

Never applied for the test or bothered to do the lessons, my insurance is only 200 euro more without the full license. I don't have a piece of pink paper to say I have a full license OH NO! It wouldn't bother me which license I had if I killed someone which hopefully will never happen anyone

Never bothered. Bother with mirrors? Blind spots? I hope you get caught by causing a fairly minor accident, go to court and get banned for 5 years because your attitude is reckless and dangerous.

tim3000

creep wrote: »

So 14/15 full license drivers cause road deaths, that stat makes no sense. Rations of learners to full is way more than 1 to 15. Full license drivers should be off the road if thats the stat

Thats the stat i found on http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/concern-at-number-of-solo-learner-drivers-in-fatal-crashes-26863179.html

creep

miss no stars wrote: »

Never bothered. Bother with mirrors? Blind spots? I hope you get caught by causing a fairly minor accident, go to court and get banned for 5 years because your attitude is reckless and dangerous.

I drive 400Km a week, I know how to check my mirrors, check my blindspot tyvm. How is my attitude wreckless and dangerous? I drive within with the speed limit unlike most full license drivers doing 160 KM/H on the motorway,