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https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules

do you think the present law on learner permits is hypocritical

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  • Options
    #62
    J.P.M
    Site Banned Posts: 106 ✭✭J.P.M


    Yeah, you are special


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    #63
    creep
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 360 ✭✭creep


    Cedrus wrote: »
    How so?

    Advanced driving, its kinda in the name. Money racket scheme.


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    #64
    Cedrus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,429 ✭✭✭Cedrus


    creep wrote: »
    I'd bet most of the younger drivers are better and safer drivers than you judging by your posts. You really have no clue.

    What are you betting, cash or bullstrut?


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    #65
    Media999
    Registered Users Posts: 1,695 ✭✭✭Media999


    Cedrus wrote: »
    40+ yes, but I can't see your reasoning for "never went through any learning process". I have full motorbike and car licences, after which I continued with advanced training. I've already posted a link for advanced driving training in Roadcraft. There was no driving test when my father started driving but that didn't stop him doing the advanced training and test, the skills he learned as a young man meant that he could still drive better after his stroke than some of the teens he shared the road with.

    If you're referring to the amnesty when provisional licenses were converted without a test, you'd be looking for people older than me, and that was totally wrong. Just as the OP on this thread and her supporters are.

    How are youth arrogant when your the one who feels the need to talk down to them and point out how great and qualified your family are?


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    #66
    creep
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 360 ✭✭creep


    Media999 wrote: »
    How are youth arrogant when your the one who feels the need to talk down to them and point out how great and qualified your family are?

    With his advanced driving haha. How does he not realise those companies are scamming him. I suppose some people fall for it.


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    #67
    Cedrus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,429 ✭✭✭Cedrus


    creep wrote: »
    Advanced driving, its kinda in the name. Money racket scheme.

    There's no money racket involved, did you even read the link.
    There's a book which you buy and read, If you're keen you go out with a group of like minds, in the UK a police rider/driver trainer teaches you for free. Some people think being able to read is a scam :rolleyes:


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    #68
    Cedrus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,429 ✭✭✭Cedrus


    creep wrote: »
    With his advanced driving haha. How does he not realise those companies are scamming him. I suppose some people fall for it.

    Some fools even fall for scams that aren't even there??


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    #69
    creep
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 360 ✭✭creep


    Cedrus wrote: »
    Some fools even fall for scams that aren't even there??

    You really have no clue do you!


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    #70
    Witcher
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    Penalties are not harsh enough for it, insurance companies should refuse to honour the policies of anyone who has an accident while unaccompanied..probably not feasible as it punishes any third party involved but they could honour the 3rd parties damages and then pursue the learner for costs. Some companies are doing this atm I believe.

    Fucking ridiculous that you can do a computer test and get behind the wheel of a car and suffer no real consequences if you're caught. Should be put off the road for a year no excuses imo, 1 lesson in or 12 lessons in with your test tomorrow..you don't have a full licence.

    I've nothing against learners, we've all been there, I have never beeped a learner in traffic and never would because I remember being the person cutting the car out when the lights go green and having some dick beep you but they have to abide by the rules ffs.


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    #71
    Media999
    Registered Users Posts: 1,695 ✭✭✭Media999


    Blay wrote: »
    Penalties are not harsh enough for it, insurance companies should refuse to honour the policies of anyone who has an accident while unaccompanied..probably not feasible as it punishes any third party involved but they could honour the 3rd parties damages and then pursue the learner for costs. Some companies are doing this atm I believe.

    Fucking ridiculous that you can do a computer test and get behind the wheel of a car and suffer no real consequences if you're caught. Should be put off the road for a year no excuses imo, 1 lesson in or 12 lessons in with your test tomorrow..you don't have a full licence.

    Why not bring in a rule that anyone who causes a crash has to get 12 lessons? No matter what age.


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    #72
    creep
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 360 ✭✭creep


    Blay wrote: »
    Penalties are not harsh enough for it, insurance companies should refuse to honour the policies of anyone who has an accident while unaccompanied..probably not feasible as it punishes any third party involved but they could honour the 3rd parties damages and then pursue the learner for costs. Some companies are doing this atm I believe.

    Fucking ridiculous that you can do a computer test and get behind the wheel of a car and suffer no real consequences if you're caught. Should be put off the road for a year no excuses imo, 1 lesson in or 12 lessons in with your test tomorrow..you don't have a full licence.

    Not really, I was on the road the day I get my license. I was able to drive through towns after a day of getting the license. Been driving two years since on the provisional.


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    #73
    creep
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 360 ✭✭creep


    Media999 wrote: »
    Why not bring in a rule that anyone who causes a crash has to get 12 lessons? No matter what age.

    I agree or resit the test. I think anyone who even gets 4 four penalty points should made do 12 lessons and resit the test and have there license taken off them until complete. These are the biggest hazards on the road


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    #74
    tim3000
    Registered Users Posts: 555 ✭✭✭tim3000


    Blay wrote: »
    Penalties are not harsh enough for it, insurance companies should refuse to honour the policies of anyone who has an accident while unaccompanied..probably not feasible as it punishes any third party involved but they could honour the 3rd parties damages and then pursue the learner for costs. Some companies are doing this atm I believe.

    Fucking ridiculous that you can do a computer test and get behind the wheel of a car and suffer no real consequences if you're caught. Should be put off the road for a year no excuses imo, 1 lesson in or 12 lessons in with your test tomorrow..you don't have a full licence.

    I've nothing against learners, we've all been there, I have never beeped a learner in traffic and never would because I remember being the person cutting the car out when the lights go green and having some dick beep you but they have to abide by the rules ffs.

    So if I just do my full 12 lessons, sit my test and pass am I then a better or worse driver than someone who has done 12 lessons driven a large amount accompanied and unaccompanied sat his test and passed it?


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    #75
    Witcher
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    Media999 wrote: »
    Why not bring in a rule that anyone who causes a crash has to get 12 lessons? No matter what age.

    I'm not against punishing full licenced drivers when they fcuk up either, I'm not entrenched with the full licence brigade battling back the learners at all.


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    #76
    Witcher
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    tim3000 wrote: »
    So if I just do my full 12 lessons, sit my test and pass am I then a better or worse driver than someone who has done 12 lessons driven a large amount accompanied and unaccompanied sat his test and passed it?

    I'm not getting into hypothetical scenarios which compare driving skill with you.

    Do your lessons, drive accompanied and do the test, 3 simple steps.

    There are no excuses for driving unaccompanied..I don't care about the sob stories 'oh I've nobody to go with me/I can only drive accompanied a few hours a week' TS..it's going to take you longer then. You can't circumvent laws because they're a bit inconvenient for you.


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    #77
    Media999
    Registered Users Posts: 1,695 ✭✭✭Media999


    creep wrote: »
    I agree or resit the test. I think anyone who even gets 4 four penalty points should made do 12 lessons and resit the test and have there license taken off them until complete. These are the biggest hazards on the road

    If their was little or no long waits for the test yes but that wouldnt be possible. 4 months of a queue here so that makes no sense but would easily be able to enforce lessons on people who cause serious crashes. Maybe even 5 lessons focusing on what caused the crash.


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    #78
    Witcher
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    ann13 wrote: »
    for all these people who are against learner drivers going unaccompanied, i would like to know how many lessons ye had , who drove with you in the car when learning and how many hours practice outside of lessons did you do. As I drive everyday unaccompanied I probably gained nearly 100 hours of driving experience since I started driving eight weeks ago so I think i'm more experienced than the other learner drivers that stick to lessons because they don't have a driving sponser. If I was to pay for that amount of experience like some people on this thread were saying to do it would have cost me 3,000 euro. For the fact that I am a learner I do be very careful driving as I know i'm inexperienced and don't speed and am always reading the rules of the road and refreshing my skills in lessons that I take every second week. I think the main killer on roads is speed and too high speed limits on country roads. Some country roads have speed limits of 80km I never go that speed as you don't know what is around a bendy corner like on on a corner there was a tractor in the middle of the road if I was going fast I would of crashed no dout. Another time I was going up a hill with a blind corner so you couldn't see if there was a car coming around the corner and a full licience driver was stopped in the middle of the road taking a call and would not move so I had to over take and just as I was over taking on the right on the narrow road a car came speeding around the blind corner. I quickly reversed back behind the stopped car if I did not do this quick like I did I would have been meat. These were all fully licensed drivers as they all looked 50 plus. All near accidents that have happened to me have been as a result of fully licensed drivers. Not forgetting the time when a man was on a phone and I was on a roundabout and he didn't yield to me on the roundabout and was going to join it without looking to traffic to the right and crash right into the side of my car as he was busy on his phone this man looked forty and was a fully licensed driver.

    Do you know what/where the return key is?


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    #79
    ann13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11 ✭ann13


    no I'm too stupid I don't know where it is for I only am a learner driver.


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    #80
    Witcher
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    ann13 wrote: »
    no I'm too stupid I don't know where it is for I only am a learner driver.

    Yeah, that attitude plus your walls of text are really going to convince people to take you seriously.

    If you're going to rant the least you could do is make it readable.


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    #81
    creep
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 360 ✭✭creep


    your-high-horse.jpg
    Blay wrote: »
    Yeah, that attitude plus your walls of text are really going to convince people to take you seriously.

    If you're going to rant the least you could do is make it readable.


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    #82
    Witcher
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    creep wrote: »
    <Pic snip>

    Nice, a real worthwhile contribution.


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    #83
    creep
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 360 ✭✭creep


    Blay wrote: »
    Nice, a real worthwhile contribution.

    I think it is a valid contribution.


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    #84
    tim3000
    Registered Users Posts: 555 ✭✭✭tim3000


    Blay wrote: »
    I'm not getting into hypothetical scenarios which compare driving skill with you.

    Do your lessons, drive accompanied and do the test, 3 simple steps.

    There are no excuses for driving unaccompanied..I don't care about the sob stories 'oh I've nobody to go with me/I can only drive accompanied a few hours a week' TS..it's going to take you longer then. You can't circumvent laws because they're a bit inconvenient for you.

    Its not a hypothetical scenario by any means. Its something that is happening all across the country at the moment. And your response to a simple hypothetical question is to ignore it?

    TS..it's going to take you longer then A masterful retort. Tell me what, if any, solution do you have to this situation?


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    #85
    Witcher
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    tim3000 wrote: »
    Its not a hypothetical scenario by any means. Its something that is happening all across the country at the moment. And your response to a simple hypothetical question is to ignore it?

    TS..it's going to take you longer then A masterful retort. Tell me what, if any, solution do you have to this situation?

    The solution is as I said...do your lessons and drive accompanied in accordance with the law..if you can't do that then you shouldn't be on the road. There are no excuses here, you can't ignore the law because it's inconvenient as I also said. You can't go 130 on the M50 and tell the guards you're in a bit of a rush..the law applies to all people at all times no matter what your circumstances are.

    If you"ve nobody to accompany you then it's unfortunate but it doesn't give you permission to take to the road alone.


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    #86
    Witcher
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    ann13 wrote: »
    I think your the one on the high horse actually correcting the way I write in a sarcastic manner are you my english teacher. I don't think I have ever corrected my pears like that ever it's very rude your implying i'm stupid if you actually think I don't know where the return key is.

    You typed out a whole wall of text, would it have killed you to paragraph it?

    I didn't imply you were stupid, I questioned whether you knew what a return key was and where it is. That's not calling into question your intelligence, it's questioning your knowledge of a keyboard.


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    #87
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,455 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    You have to think of laws and policies in the context of the general population. The accompanying licenced person law is there not to prevent learners who have had loads of lessons and experience from nipping down to the shops or getting that bit more experience. I think most posters here would agree there's no real harm in that, on the prerequisite that you are driving at a test-passing standard. It's to stop people jumping in cars by themselves the moment they get their learner permit printed out, which of course would happen if the law was removed. Obviously laws can't cater to individuals, it would be unenforceable and subjective to say you're ok to drive alone as long as you feel you have enough experience. It has to be one rule for all.

    Individually it's unfair, but necessary overall.


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    #88
    creep
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 360 ✭✭creep


    Everyone drives on there provisional, well most people. The gaurds don't give a **** so whats the harm. Everyone has different opinions. I'll continue to drive on my provisonal and hopefully bother to those then 12 stupid lessons some day but right now I couldn't be arsed.


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    #89
    Witcher
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    creep wrote: »
    Everyone drives on there provisional, well most people. The gaurds don't give a **** so whats the harm. Everyone has different opinions. I'll continue to drive on my provisonal and hopefully bother to those then 12 stupid lessons some day but right now I couldn't be arsed.

    That's the problem with the law..people like you have no regard for it. You haven't even got a lesson under your belt and you're on the road. I'm going to assume you know how to drive a car with some degree of competency since you drive alone a lot but it doesn't make it right. I'm not saying that all learners are dangerous on the road but you have to abide by the system and if people driving alone are that convinced by their driving skills then they'll have no problem flying through the lessons and the test.

    If there were serious consequences to being caught then you and others driving alone would reconsider, if being caught alone meant a year off the road and penalty points when you eventually got back on the road then you would reconsider. Now there basically no punishment, €150 fine or something..ridiculous.


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    #90
    livemusic4life
    Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭livemusic4life


    I know someone on a provisional license who got in an accident and the insurance company refused to pay out because they were an unaccompanied driver. Injured party were made to claim through some kind of fund. Insurance company then cancelled insurance and person cannot get another company to insure them. Don't think things aren't changing. In the uk you'd be charged for driving without appropriate license and invalid insurance. The same is happening here....


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    #91
    creep
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 360 ✭✭creep


    Blay wrote: »
    That's the problem with the law..people like you have no regard for it. You haven't even got a lesson under your belt and you're on the road.

    If there were serious consequences to being caught then you and your ilk would reconsider, if being caught alone meant a year off the road and penalty points when you eventually got back on the road then you would reconsider. Now there basically no punishment, €150 fine or something..ridiculous.

    Yea obviously if there was harsher penalties I wouldn't drive, been through three checkpoints and two of them just checked tax and insurance and was on my way. One though asked me for my license and said if he saw me out again on my own he would do me. Told him I was running late for work. Thought it was quite funny as he was smiling saying it.

    I could meet a prick of a gaurd that could do me, but sure a little fine won't hurt me.


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