Charges from consumer charge back

goz83

Sorry for the massive post, but there is plenty of information necessary here.


This may well be a first here, because in this case, I am the consumer on one end and the business on the other end. Let me explain:

I run a small therapy practice in Dublin. I almost lost this practice 2 years ago due to people making appointments and not attending, or cancelling. Because of this, I introduced a strict, but fair set of terms and conditions that every client is informed about several times (when they ire about a booking, when they make a booking online, verbally when an additional appointment is being made, they also sign to agree to a booking and receive a card with their appointment to the booking terms). So, we really make a big deal about appointments, because usually, 2 hours is given to each booking, it's important that people attend, or give us 24 hours notice. We also send text reminders for appointments and very rarely do I find it necessary to apply the charge (to the persons card, as agreed when appointment is made), but on only four occasions in 2 years, it has been necessary. Here is what happened;

In August, a client showed up for therapy and everything went fine. He happily agreed to a recommended follow up appointment, paid a booking fee (which is refundable for 7 days after an appointment is made, if client changes mind) and signed the appointment book. A text reminder was send and the client did not show for his appointment. When called, he said he was doing fine and didn't think he needed to attend the appointment. When asked why he didn't cancel, he said he forgot. Wen asked about the reminder, he said he had been too busy to read it. A load of BS pretty much, because he did not answer to the office phone and had to be called from a mobile an hour after the first call and voicemail. Client was told he would be charged the amount due and he said "go ahead" in a vey smug way. I remember it clearly. He was charged €50, but could have been charged €175. I am usually very lenient and try to see things from the clients point of view, but I also have a business to run and family to feed.

A couple of weeks later, I get a charge back notice from my merchant POS provider for the €50. The reason. [client not present. fraudulent use of card]. A charge of €15 is applied by my Merchant POS provider (lets call them COMPANY) for each charge back, even if I win the case. So, I write up a reply and attach copies of all the documentation, including a highlighted copy of my terms and conditions and as expected, I win the case, as I had on the three other occasions clients tried to make a successful charge back, leaving me €15 out of pocket and having to spend time and resources preparing the case and posting it off.

I returned from holiday just over a week ago and collected what I thought was all my mail at the office, but it turned out that one of my letters was in someone else's office. I was given this on Saturday. It was another charge back sent from the COMPANY from the same client. This time, it's an arbitration notice, which can cost me between €150 and €500 if I was to lose. It is almost like they want me to ignore the charge back and let the client get away with it. There are a few issues here.

1. I received the notice late (not their fault) and they won't receive my reply by post until at least the 30th. I posted the reply on Sunday and the deadline is the 29th, so I have to ring them tomorrow on deadline day to tell them I have my reply in the post and hope they accept that.

2. I had to send all the very same documents into them AGAIN. This is a complete waste of my time. I have already supplied all the documents and they want me to send them again, with a new cover letter.

3. I am charged another €15, total of €30 so far for this dispute and I am also risking a charge of up to €500 or more being applied in the (imo) unlikely event that I lose.

I think it is wrong that I am charged this fee, especially when I go above and beyond to make sure that any charges I make are wholly legitimate and fair and come with many safeguards to avoid any losses. I understand that the COMPANY must spend time preparing the case I have pre-prepared and must submit my case to the card issuer to retrieve the funds, but I think it is very unfair that the business (me) is penalised financially. It should be the loser who pays the fees, should it not.

Is there anything else I can do here?

I have already told the COMPANY that if the client appeals for a third time, I will be charging the full amount applicable, plus the charge back costs, which are all agreed to under the terms and conditions. I don't know what else I can do as a consumer and a business, stuck in the middle, getting raped with charges for doing everything by the book, while the client can charge back and appeal with no consequences whatsoever.

dudara

Moving to Business & Entrepreneurial as it's more suited there, rather than in Consumer forum

dudara

AlwaysAmber

Not much you can do about it. Chargebacks are a fact of life in business and the banks don't really care.

If you have the cardholders contact details, report them to the guards. If they are claiming fraudulent use of card, that's credit card fraud.

You might have to push the Guards, as generally they're not interested in credit card fraud - but if you are based in the same area as the cardholder they might be more inclined to do something.

goz83

AlwaysAmber wrote: »

Not much you can do about it. Chargebacks are a fact of life in business and the banks don't really care.

If you have the cardholders contact details, report them to the guards. If they are claiming fraudulent use of card, that's credit card fraud.

You might have to push the Guards, as generally they're not interested in credit card fraud - but if you are based in the same area as the cardholder they might be more inclined to do something.

Unfortunately, it means I may need to take a tougher approach in future. I am still in a position to charge the full amount, but it would only add to the mess. I will do this if there is more trouble with the client.

I don't see how contacting the guards will help. If there was a genuine case of fraud, i am sure I would have heard from the authorities. Since there has been no fraud, i don't expect it to go beyond what is currently happening. It just makes the process potentially more expensive in the future if/when a client is charged for not attending an appointment.

goz83

Contacted the COMANY this morning and the lady updated the file to accommodate for late arrival of my submission. She said I should also go to the Gardaí, because I was being accused of fraud. I took that advice, went to the local station. Garda said I needed to contact the GBFI, because he couldn't do anything, as it was a civil matter :rolleyes: This is after I pointed out that the client went to the bank to report fraud. He gave me the number for the GBFI, but it was the fax number :rolleyes: . I googled it and called the GBFI and explained the situation to the lady. She told me that the station had to take my report, as it was their job to take a statement. She kindly rang the station to tell them how to do their job and my statement was taken. The Garda said he would ring the client to see what he was doing and I contacted the COMPANY to update them. Now I have to wait and see, but it looks like the client has claimed fraud only because he lost the first time. He cannot try again if/when he fails.

jimmii

I would imagine that will get a bit of a shock when the Guards ring! Keep us up to date with what happens I'm sure a lot of us are curious to see how this pans out! Falsely accusing someone of fraud seems like a really bad idea when its as clear cut as this and if anything I could see you being in a position to take action against them.

Peterdalkey

goz83, I have to say I admire your persistence and follow through, an example to us all!! I hope you get a result.

goz83

Result is the company won't fight my case, so I effectively lost. Reason is the financial rules are different from the law and even though I am strongly covered legally, they can't fight the case. The customer service guy said if I go to small claims court, i will win, because my evidence and proof is so strong that the client agreed. Its too much hassle, but i will be changing my terms as a result of this, to prevent it happening again.

tarmon

Its terrible that they wont fight this. You end up paying which is probably why they cant be bothered. Anyway I'm just wondering what will you put in your terms to stop this type of thing happening again. I'm trying to set up a guided tour service. I'd like to take bookings in advance but if someone who doesn't show can just do what they did to you then it could end up being a major and expensive headache for me. What can you put in your terms to stop this?

Thanks,
Tarmon

goz83

tarmon wrote: »

Its terrible that they wont fight this. You end up paying which is probably why they cant be bothered. Anyway I'm just wondering what will you put in your terms to stop this type of thing happening again. I'm trying to set up a guided tour service. I'd like to take bookings in advance but if someone who doesn't show can just do what they did to you then it could end up being a major and expensive headache for me. What can you put in your terms to stop this?

Thanks,
Tarmon

Nothing can stop what happened, but I can make it worthwhile to fight. My terms have been to charge a client what they would have paid, or less, depending if they gave any notice at all, or simply ignored the reminders and calls. I now have a standard €100 charge in place if they do not meet the terms of their appointment and I will now update this in the event that a client disputes and loses a charge back case, that I can charge a further €100 (the maximum clinic fee, or no show fee) plus the COMPANY charge fee.

Lets say the same thing happens as the above case, then I would have at least some reason to take the client to court and hurt their pocket a little more. Unfortunately, you will always get people who are just donkeys, but I suggest putting in place a strong and fair set of terms and give every client every opportunity to see it and agree to it, by signing them as many times as possible. It makes for more work, but it discourages, for the most part, people who would abuse your service and cost you money. The COMPANY may have failed me big time here, but my terms have saved me so much heart ache in the past.

doublej

I really believe that you are entitled to be paid for your time, particularly when your T&C's are as transparent as you have outlined; there is however one aspect of the charging by you that may require looking into by you to ensure the processes adopted by you would not fall foul of your COMPANY service provider.
How are you storing the payment details/ card numbers ?
There are strict Rules preventing a business from holding card details in a non encrypted format.
Be careful that you don't fail this test or you may find that the Chargeback would be effected by the service provider due to a non adherence to PCI security.