Letting Agency lying/breaching tenancy agreement

NicoleL88

Myself and my partner moved into our apartment in April 2013. On the day of viewing we asked if there are or were ever any issues with mould or mildew and we were told no.

Fast forward to when the weather started to get colder and wetter... the mould came out in force!

Due to previous issues with this letting agency literally taking months to fix simple issues in the past, I did not contact them as soon as I noticed the mould, mildew and excessive condensation building up. I know now that I should have, but I felt that this would be another issue that would have gone unheard for ages... and I'm not unfounded in that feeling!

I emailed them almost three weeks ago now (so as to have documentation of the problem) and attached pictures of the mould and mildew and excessive condensation that was building up despite our best (and tiring) efforts to thoroughly ventilate and clean the apartment every day.

I received an email back saying they would be in touch Monday (email was sent on a Friday). Flash forward to last Friday... hadn't heard a word from them so I sent another email. And in case anyone is wondering why I didn't phone them:

1. I wanted a written record of our correspondence
2. 90% of the time when we call there is either no answer or we're told we'll be phoned back which we never are

In my second email I said that the problem had worsened, the mould and mildew was now posing a serious health risk as it was in our bedroom and destroying our clothes, shoes and furniture. I also told them that due to their inaction we had to take it upon ourselves to purchase sprays, paint, polyfiller etc in order to scrub the mould and mildew off the walls, fill the cracks in our bedroom and to re-paint the entire apartment.

This is where I felt the agency have really put their foot in it.

I received an email back the same day and was told that they sent someone up on October 15th, and that this person treated the mould and assessed the damage.

We were both home until 4pm this day. If someone did call up between 4pm-6pm (the hours we were not home) they did so without prior notice or gaining permission from us as is required by the rules set out in our tenancy agreement. However, I very much doubt anyone did call up and that we are blatantly being lied to, as there was no bloody mould to treat: we had already carried out the cleaning and repairs ourselves!

So in either scenario, we are being lied to and there is a possibility that our tenancy agreement has been breached.

This whole situation is so aggravating and tiring. We have requested either satisfactory reimbursement in the amount of €350-€400 or a permanent deduction from our monthly rent until the end of our tenancy, but I want to know do we now have the right to end our tenancy with them? My partner will be calling into their offices in the morning to try and sort it out. Is there any additional advice that people can offer?

Thanks for reading.

Ps: There's also a serious issue with draughts: the windows are not properly fitted and when its windy the apartment is freezing. One of the bedroom windows was sealed shut before we moved in, and I assume this was due to previous draughts in the bedroom.

MouseTail

No, you do not have grounds to terminate the tenancy.
What did the Agent say was the view of the People who inspected/rectified the mould issue in relation to the cause?

NicoleL88

MouseTail wrote: »

What did the Agent say was the view of the People who inspected/rectified the mould issue in relation to the cause?

I quote:

"We sent one of our service people to your property on Tuesday 15th October. They treated the mould and assessed how best to proceed with repair."

That's all she said before swiftly moving on asking us for receipts and pictures of the damage. I know she's lying because there was no mould to treat, the repairs were done and it was all taken care of by that time, and there was no change to the apartment when we returned at 6.

mari2222

Carefully read your tenancy agreement and ensure you follow its provisions TO THE LETTER.

By all means ask for full info on the "inspection" - date, time, findings, recommendations, etc

NicoleL88

Thanks Mari, I've already read the tenancy agreement 10 times over!

Also, the only reason I haven't replied in email yet stating that either she's after lying or the tenancy agreement has been breached is because I don't want to give her an advance opportunity to come up with a new lie before tomorrow morning.

My OH is planning to catch her off guard, ask her exactly what the "service person's" findings were and then give her the information that I gave here.

We love our apartment, we've put so much money and time into it, but I won't stand for being ripped off and having property damage, health risks and other problems ignored. I'm a nice and patient person, but not when it comes to things like this!

MicktheMan

NicoleL88 wrote: »

On the day of viewing we asked if there are or were ever any issues with mould or mildew and we were told no.

Had you reason to ask this?

NicoleL88

As a prospective tenant what reason would I have not to ask this?

Plus, I had already lived in two apartments that had terrible mould and mildew and was determined not to go through dealing with all that again.

MicktheMan

NicoleL88 wrote: »

What reason would I have not to ask this as a prospective tenant?

In my experience of being a landlord, I've never been asked this question. If I was asked, I would be wary of why it has been asked as it may indicate a future issue with damp/mould. As you said, you asked because you have had previous problems with mould.

So, why would I be wary?
I survey buildings for a living concentrating on building physics, i.e. how buildings work (or don't). A growing group of my clients are landlords who contact me with damp/mould issues. A typical case would be where they have let the same apartment/house for, say, 10 years with no issues and suddenly they have a damp/mould/mildew issue. In 95% of cases the sudden arrival of mould is coincident with the change of a tenancy.
In my experience, while building inadequacies do account for some of the problem, occupant behaviour is most important in determining whether the property will suffer from damp or not.

I do not know what may be at issue in the apartment but just want to point out that it may not be all the landlords fault.:)

NicoleL88

MicktheMan wrote: »

If I was asked, I would be wary of why it has been asked as it may indicate a future issue with damp/mould.

That's like saying if you or any other landlord were asked about draughts/noisy neighbours etc that the asking in itself would indicate future draughts/neighbours becoming noisy! It's a perfectly reasonable question to ask.

MicktheMan wrote: »

IAs you said, you asked because you have had previous problems with mould.

Yes, but only in two apartments out of the eight apartments I've lived in.

MicktheMan wrote: »

In my experience, while building inadequacies do account for some of the problem, occupant behaviour is most important in determining whether the property will suffer from damp or not.

I agree to a point, but we've taken every action possible to ensure that we aren't the cause. We ventilate the apartment thoroughly every day, keep bathroom window open and door closed when showering or when we have the tumble dryer running. We also hang our clothes to dry in the bathroom and keep the window open and door closed. Funnily enough the bathroom is the only room that doesn't have mould or condensation!

My dad popped around the other day (he's a painter/decorator), took one look at the exterior walls of the building and said they were in a terrible state and that was likely the problem. He took a look over the work we had carried out also and said we had done a good job on the repairs and painting.

Edit: Just to bring it back on topic, I'm looking for some opinions on the letting agency lying/breaking the tenancy agreement, not on the mould/mildew situation, thanks!

MouseTail

But you don't know the letting agent is lying, someone could have called on the day in question, and if that were the case, they acted in a timely fashion, as you delayed in notifying them of the problem.

Just because there was no mould present does not mean this person could not assess the interior and exterior for issues. You need to find out what they said before proceeding further.

NicoleL88

MouseTail wrote: »

But you don't know the letting agent is lying, someone could have called on the day in question, and if that were the case, they acted in a timely fashion, as you delayed in notifying them of the problem.

Just because there was no mould present does not mean this person could not assess the interior and exterior for issues. You need to find out what they said before proceeding further.

Thanks for your reply Mousetail but I don't think you're understanding what I have said.

If someone did in fact enter our apartment between 4pm and 6pm they did so without any permission from us, nor were we notified about anyone calling up.

Also, if this visit did happen, we were not notified until I pressed the agency for a response again 10 days later.

This is a direct breach of our tenancy agreement as we are required to be notified in advance of anyone entering our premises.

In addition to that, in the email she said the person treated the mould. No one treated any mould because there was none to treat! She also said they assessed on how to best proceed with the repairs, which had also already been carried out by the time this supposed inspection occurred.

MouseTail

I do understand what you are saying. If the Agent acted in breach of the lease, so did you by not notifying him of issues in a timely manner.
The only way to resolve this is to find out what the Service person found is the cause of the mould. is there a problem with the exterior wall, ventilation or is it lifestyle issues? You cannot proceed until you find out.

What do you hope to gain by fighting the battle that you were not notified of the visit of the Service person? Do you want a reason to leave, or do you want the mould issue resolved?

You can't fight all battles on all fronts.

NicoleL88

Thanks for clarifying, but I'm not trying to fight any battle. Myself and my partner pay good money to live here.

However, I don't feel that our rights as tenants are being met. Our property is being destroyed, our health is at risk and as I already mentioned our problems have gone ignored for months with this letting agency. That is why this one time I did not immediately tell them about this issue. We have been having problems with them for almost 7 months.

We want to make the agency aware that if they are telling the truth about the visit that they have violated the terms of our tenancy agreement, that their lies are completely unacceptable and unprofessional, that we need to be reimbursed, not only for the repairs we have carried out but also for the damage done to our belongings. Also, they need to (for a change) carry out urgent repairs: the windows are not properly fitted, there is not proper ventilation and there are a host of other issues which I won't go into. We want the appropriate renovations and repairs to be carried out in a timely fashion i.e. we don't want to freeze to death in the winter, nor do we want to live in a forest of mould.

D3PO

OP there are a few different things to address here.

Im going to start with your request for compensation. You have no valid cause to expect a reimbursement for the money you spent on "repairs" Unless you are qualified to recitify mould issues you should not have been completing any "repairs" yourself.

Pollyfilla in cracks and a repaint are not repairs, they have no valid purpose in terms of resolving a mould issue and I see absolutely no reason you should expect a reimbursement for these things.

Regarding the issue with the EA. Yes given what you have said they are probably lying about attending the property on the day in question but you cannot be 100% sure. If they are telling the truth you are correct they should not have entered the property without your permission but its essentially stops right there.

You can inform them that this breaches your tenancy rights and that you are going to make a complaint to the IAVAI (or other professional body they are associated with) and also to the PRTB regarding this action and make it clear that nobody is to enter the property without your express permission.

That is essentially the end of it however, they wont be reprimanded in any way for a one off excursion being honest and their behavior doesn't change your obligations as a tenant in relation to your lease, you still have to pay the rent you agreed to and you still have to remain in the property for the length you have signed up for.

djimi

MouseTail wrote: »

What do you hope to gain by fighting the battle that you were not notified of the visit of the Service person? Do you want a reason to leave, or do you want the mould issue resolved?

You can't fight all battles on all fronts.

If this person did indeed let themselves into the property without prior consent of the tenant then there is a bigger issue here than mould tbh. If I was told that someone would be here by 4, and I found out that they arrived afterwards and let themselves in without my permission I would be absolutely furious.

pwurple

I assume this is a letting agency beginning with C? Their lack of communication is a massive flaw alright.

However, you cannot just do work and then charge them for it without that agreement being in place first.

djimi

OP have you got the contact details for your landlord? If so, it might not be a bad idea to contact them directly and let them know about this saga. The letting agent are paid quite a lot of money each year to manage the property, and Im sure the landlord would be very interested to hear what they are getting in return for what they spend.

2rkehij30qtza5

A few things strike me here. I have been in your position before.

1. If there is mould/mildew..then this is a health hazard...WHY do you want to stay living there?...you say you want a rent reduction on the basis of the mould...is it not just better to get out?

2. Yes, you can break your lease as you are not renting a house that is 'fit for purpose'.

3. Condensation can cause mould-are you opening windows and ventilating properly? Bad construction can also cause mould...lack of a dpc, lack of vents etc. Timber framed buildings are more susceptible than concrete builds.

If your house has mould then GET OUT now. I almost died from the issue in my previous house. It can cause serious illness and for the sake of a few hundred euro it's just not worth it.

Faith

pwurple wrote: »

I assume this is a letting agency beginning with C?

I was going to ask the exact same thing. Based in Cork, OP? If it is, you will never get any satisfaction from them. Tales of their rubbishness has become the stuff of legend. I'd take the opportunity to leave the apartment if it's not at all possible, and never rent a property managed by them again.

Unfortunately, they do dominate the market a bit so you need a bit of patience to find places not managed by them.

NicoleL88

D3PO wrote: »

OP there are a few different things to address here.

You have no valid cause to expect a reimbursement for the money you spent on "repairs"

Thanks for your reply D3PO but I have to disagree with you here. I contacted Threshold and they said I am well within my rights to request reimbursement for the repairs, temporary as they may be. Our property was being destroyed due to the inaction of the Letting Agency. Said agency said they would inquire with the landlord about reimbursement provided that we have pictures and receipts.

pwurple wrote: »

I assume this is a letting agency beginning with C? Their lack of communication is a massive flaw alright.

I know who you mean but no, it's beginning with T!

djimi wrote: »

OP have you got the contact details for your landlord?

No, but my boyfriend will be requesting them today.

Ariah Obedient Matt wrote: »

1. If there is mould/mildew..then this is a health hazard...WHY do you want to stay living there?...you say you want a rent reduction on the basis of the mould...is it not just better to get out?

Because we love our apartment - just not the mould and the manner in which the agency has been handling our complaints and requests. The location is perfect for us in regards to work and there's not much else out there at the moment within our budget that would suit us.

Ariah Obedient Matt wrote: »

3. Condensation can cause mould-are you opening windows and ventilating properly? Bad construction can also cause mould...lack of a dpc, lack of vents etc. Timber framed buildings are more susceptible than concrete builds.

We are literally freezing our bums off every day and night trying to ventilate the place properly. Plus as I mentioned previously, the windows aren't properly fitted, the draught that comes in even when they're closed is ridiculous.

Thank you all for your replies so far. My boyfriend is heading over to the agency soon so I'll report back with what they say.

foggy_lad

MouseTail wrote: »

But you don't know the letting agent is lying, someone could have called on the day in question, and if that were the case, they acted in a timely fashion, as you delayed in notifying them of the problem.

Just because there was no mould present does not mean this person could not assess the interior and exterior for issues. You need to find out what they said before proceeding further.

Nobody is allowed enter your home without your agreement and without prior arrangement and notice and most important without you being there!

D3PO wrote: »

Regarding the issue with the EA. Yes given what you have said they are probably lying about attending the property on the day in question but you cannot be 100% sure. If they are telling the truth you are correct they should not have entered the property without your permission but its essentially stops right there.

You can inform them that this breaches your tenancy rights and that you are going to make a complaint to the IAVAI (or other professional body they are associated with) and also to the PRTB regarding this action and make it clear that nobody is to enter the property without your express permission.

That is essentially the end of it however, they wont be reprimanded in any way for a one off excursion being honest and their behavior doesn't change your obligations as a tenant in relation to your lease, you still have to pay the rent you agreed to and you still have to remain in the property for the length you have signed up for.

If I found out my LL or their agent had ever been in my home without my permission or knowledge I would firstly change the locks and then give notice as it would be impossible to feel safe there knowing that the cretin could walk in at any time! I would also make a complaint to the PRTB.

Remember that the estate agent is the landlords agent and the landlord is responsible for the agents actions!

NicoleL88

Thanks foggylad! That's my stance on the situation anyway. On another note, my boyfriend just opened up his wardrobe and shirts and pants had a coating of mould on them. Also a bag on top of the wardrobe which was fine yesterday (as were the wardrobe clothes) is also destroyed.

I feel sick! Gonna have to disinfect and paint the two wardrobes today on my last bloody day off!

D3PO

NicoleL88 wrote: »

Thanks for your reply D3PO but I have to disagree with you here. I contacted Threshold and they said I am well within my rights to request reimbursement for the repairs, temporary as they may be. Our property was being destroyed due to the inaction of the Letting Agency. Said agency said they would inquire with the landlord about reimbursement provided that we have pictures and receipts.

Firstly its not your property as you have said numerous times. It may be your home but its not your property.

Secondly painting and pollyfillaing is not a repair. Temporary or otherwise. Threshold can tell you whatever they like but I can assure you you will not win a PRTB case for reimbursement for "repairs" because you haven't made repairs.

I'm not unsympathetic to your situation but taking the wrong approach has to be called out. Two wrongs don't make a right.

You didn't make repairs and its on that basis I say you are not entitled to reimbursement.

NicoleL88

D3PO, while I appreciate your opinion and thank you for it and your advice, Threshold aren't there to throw out advice willy-nilly. They are knowledgeable about such matters and I fully explained the situation to them.

We don't have to win any case with the PRTB. The letting agency also advised us today that yes we are entitled to reimbursement for the damage done to OUR property (clothing, shoes, furniture etc), and for the cost of repairs that we carried out - whether you think they're adequate or not.

The agent was trying to dodge us all day, conveniently stepping out everytime my boyfriend called to the office. He managed to catch her at 5pm just when she was heading out of work early. She tried to rush past him, telling him she didn't have time to talk but he's a manager of two bars so doesn't take any guff from anyone and made her go back inside for a chat.

The agent tried to argue that the reason someone was sent up and we weren't informed is that it was "an emergency". However, we were not informed that even anyone was going to enter our apartment. The agent also added "the woman that went up was grand and trustworthy", to which my boyfriend replied "If I had a friend, gave them the keys to your place and told you they were "grand" after the fact, would you be ok with them entering your home without your knowledge or consent?" to which she had no argument to retort with.

A lot of information was exchanged which I won't go into here, but my boyfriend made it clear that if we were not contacted within 48 hours regarding reimbursement/new items to be added to the apartment/repairs etc (which she promised him she would) that he would not hesitate in hiring a solicitor and making the situation known to the PRTB which she took very seriously.

All in all, we have to wait again, hopefully not too long, for some kind of resolution. In the meantime, I have to take most of our clothing to a laundrette to have them washed and dried because of the mould on them. Not pleasant.

D3PO

NicoleL88 wrote: »

D3PO, while I appreciate your opinion and thank you for it and your advice, Threshold aren't there to throw out advice willy-nilly. They are knowledgeable about such matters and I fully explained the situation to them.

actually there have been many occasions that Threshold have given out wrong advise in the past. They can be knowledgeable on things but are not always.

We don't have to win any case with the PRTB. The letting agency also advised us today that yes we are entitled to reimbursement for the damage done to OUR property (clothing, shoes, furniture etc), and for the cost of repairs that we carried out - whether you think they're adequate or not.

You don't have to win a case because the agent / LL are being reasonable, you have to remember not all LL's and agents will be so reasonable in which case you would be forced to take a PRTB case and would lose unfortunately weather you or I think that is the right or wrong outcome.

The agent was trying to dodge us all day, conveniently stepping out everytime my boyfriend called to the office. He managed to catch her at 5pm just when she was heading out of work early. She tried to rush past him, telling him she didn't have time to talk but he's a manager of two bars so doesn't take any guff from anyone and made her go back inside for a chat.

The agent tried to argue that the reason someone was sent up and we weren't informed is that it was "an emergency". However, we were not informed that even anyone was going to enter our apartment. The agent also added "the woman that went up was grand and trustworthy", to which my boyfriend replied "If I had a friend, gave them the keys to your place and told you they were "grand" after the fact, would you be ok with them entering your home without your knowledge or consent?" to which she had no argument to retort with.

A lot of information was exchanged which I won't go into here, but my boyfriend made it clear that if we were not contacted within 48 hours regarding reimbursement/new items to be added to the apartment/repairs etc (which she promised him she would) that he would not hesitate in hiring a solicitor and making the situation known to the PRTB which she took very seriously.

All in all, we have to wait again, hopefully not too long, for some kind of resolution. In the meantime, I have to take most of our clothing to a laundrette to have them washed and dried because of the mould on them. Not pleasant.

I'm glad your boyfriend took no crap and got this sorted (although I wouldn't be surprised if the issue lingers on and on. EA's are happy to fob you off by saying what you want to hear and then going to ground) Experience says you will be waiting and waiting for this reimbursement. An EA that trys to avoid your boyfriend when cornered will say anything to get rid of him.

Will be interested to hear an update from you in a weeks time to see what the status is. My gut feeling is you will be in the same position still.

Im not being combative in response to you Im trying to ensure you realize the reality of the situation.

I hope Im wrong for your case but I fear I am not.

foggy_lad

NicoleL88 wrote: »

The agent tried to argue that the reason someone was sent up and we weren't informed is that it was "an emergency". However, we were not informed that even anyone was going to enter our apartment. The agent also added "the woman that went up was grand and trustworthy", to which my boyfriend replied "If I had a friend, gave them the keys to your place and told you they were "grand" after the fact, would you be ok with them entering your home without your knowledge or consent?" to which she had no argument to retort with.

That excuse for their laziness is just buIIshlt! An emergency is where there may be immediate danger to the property or to those inside, it is not to be used by cowboy estate agent clowns when they can't be bothered to ring the tenant and make proper arrangements. this woman who broke in at the request of the agent was probably not even a handyman or qualified to do any work or diagnose any of the issues. she was probably sent by the agent to see if there was loads of mould as described by yourself.

Ye should make a complaint immediately to the PRTB and also make a complaint about the agent to their regulatory body.

D3PO

foggy_lad wrote: »

That excuse for their laziness is just buIIshlt! An emergency is where there may be immediate danger to the property or to those inside, it is not to be used by cowboy estate agent clowns when they can't be bothered to ring the tenant and make proper arrangements. .

The problem is that an emergency isn't clearly defined. As mould can be a serious health issue there is an argument that it could be considered an emergency.

Its a BS excuse from the EA yes but as their are no defining guidelines on what exactly constitutes an emergency a flimsy response like this will probably be accepted as reasonable.

djimi

D3PO wrote: »

The problem is that an emergency isn't clearly defined. As mould can be a serious health issue there is an argument that it could be considered an emergency.

Its a BS excuse from the EA yes but as their are no defining guidelines on what exactly constitutes an emergency a flimsy response like this will probably be accepted as reasonable.

An emergency in this instance would be something that would constitute an immediate threat, ie a gas leak, water leak, serious medical emergency etc. The agency letting themselves into the property to take a look at some mould would never fall under this, no matter how serious the problem might be (no one is going to die today if the problem isnt looked at until tomorrow).

foggy_lad

D3PO wrote: »

The problem is that an emergency isn't clearly defined. As mould can be a serious health issue there is an argument that it could be considered an emergency.

Its a BS excuse from the EA yes but as their are no defining guidelines on what exactly constitutes an emergency a flimsy response like this will probably be accepted as reasonable.

http://landlords.about.com/od/LegalIssues/a/When-Does-A-Landlord-Have-The-Right-To-Enter-A-Rental-Unit.htm

When Can the Landlord Enter

A landlord is required to enter a tenant’s unit only during “reasonable hours.” These hours may vary slightly by state, but, generally normal business hours of 9 A.M to 6 P.M. would be acceptable times for a landlord to enter.

These hours may vary in certain situations:

Emergency Situations- If there is an emergency, a landlord can enter the tenant’s unit at any time. Examples of emergencies would include:
A gas leak at the property
A fire
Flooding at the property
A natural disaster which could pose immediate danger to the tenant
Repairs Requested by the Tenant- If a tenant has specifically asked the landlord to repair or service something in his or her unit, the landlords may enter the unit during additional hours. 8 A.M. to 8 P.M. would be acceptable times to enter the unit as long as both the landlord and the tenant agree on the time. Other times, such as 7 A.M. or 9 P.M., would also be allowed as long as both parties agreed to the unusual hour.

Performing Normal Services- When a landlord must perform scheduled services that have been spelled out in the lease agreement, they can usually enter the tenant’s unit during normal business hours, between 9 A.M. and 6 P.M. These services could include pest control or changing air-conditioning or furnace filters.

At all other times the landlord must give adequate notice and agree a date and time with the tenant.

D3PO

foggy_lad wrote: »

http://landlords.about.com/od/LegalIssues/a/When-Does-A-Landlord-Have-The-Right-To-Enter-A-Rental-Unit.htm
At all other times the landlord must give adequate notice and agree a date and time with the tenant.

With all due respect a link to an about.com page relating to most likely the situation in America is irrelevant.

The RTA says nothing of the sort so this is not relevant at all.

D3PO

djimi wrote: »

An emergency in this instance would be something that would constitute an immediate threat, ie a gas leak, water leak, serious medical emergency etc. The agency letting themselves into the property to take a look at some mould would never fall under this, no matter how serious the problem might be (no one is going to die today if the problem isnt looked at until tomorrow).

I don't disagree with your assertion of what is and what isn't an emergency however my point remains. The RTA does not define an emergency like you have described above so that is noting more than your opinion on what is one.

With that in mind entering to combat something that could serious health issues could constitute an emergency. I don't agree with it by my point is that it could be successfully argued.