legality of using deer calls

steyrprohunter

Can anyone clarify once and for all the legality of using artificial callers to entice deer to within shooting range. I just looked at a shooting programme filmed here recently where the guide has a sceery elk caller which is used to attract sika stags. Im not saying he used the call but Id like to be informed if calling deer is illegal.

Cass

It's illegal.

Section 35 of the 1976 Wildlife Act.

(d) a person shall not use an electrical or other instrument or appliance (including recording apparatus) emitting or imitating birdcalls or the calls of wild mammals for the purpose of hunting a protected wild bird or a protected wild animal which is a mammal.

The Aussie

I'm surprised how often blokes brag on here about illegal activity, then they call themselves Deer Stalkers :rolleyes:

Jerrystevens

does that go for all calls or just electronic ones is a mouth operated call legal or illegal i sea on uk hunting sites lots of men saying they have been shooting in ireland and are calling sika stags in

Cass

It means anything. Electric or otherwise. They choose the words carefully to cover all items:

an electrical or other instrument or appliance

I believe calling in the UK is legal so either lads come over here and use them not knowing or do know, but simply don't care.


This is one of the few instances where the law is very clear and straight forward. No calls of any sort.

Vegeta

Jerrystevens wrote: »

does that go for all calls or just electronic ones is a mouth operated call legal or illegal i sea on uk hunting sites lots of men saying they have been shooting in ireland and are calling sika stags in

Well, a mouth operated call certainly falls under the description of an "instrument" in that section of the Act, imho.

Hard to see it argued otherwise.

deeksofdoom

So that means banging a set of antlers together to immitate fighting noises (as seen on fieldsports channel with Roy Lupton calling in fallow deer) is illegal?

Whats the story with fox calls, never thought the handheld ones were illegal, but the electronic ones must be, whats the story there?

Cass

deeksofdoom wrote:

So that means banging a set of antlers together to immitate fighting noises (as seen on fieldsports channel with Roy Lupton calling in fallow deer) is illegal?

Yes.

Whats the story with fox calls, never thought the handheld ones were illegal, but the electronic ones must be, whats the story there?

The Wildlife Amendment Act 2000 removed the word "protected" from paragraph "d" of section 35.

So now it reads:

(d) use an electrical or other instrument or appliance (including recording apparatus) emitting sound, for the purpose of hunting any wild bird or any wild animal.

With the removal of the word protected it now applies to any wild bird and any wild animal.

wexfordman2

Cass wrote: »

Correction on my previous post. The Wildlife Amendment Act 2000 removed the word "protected" from paragraph "d" of section 35.

So now it reads:


With the removal of the word protected it now applies to any wild bird and any wild animal.

Good god! So squeking in a fox is out too!

Im assuming a call bird couldnt be construed as an "instrument" :eek:

Cass

wexfordman2 wrote:

Good god! So squeking in a fox is out too!

Pretty much.

I'm not sure where you'd stand on calling by hand/mouth. It's not an instrument, object, apparatus, recording, either manual or electronic. However on each person's head be it.

wexfordman2 wrote:

Im assuming a call bird couldnt be construed as an "instrument"

I'm playing devil's advocate here so bear with me.

An instrument does not necessarily mean a device/tool. It is defined as many things but also as:

The means by which something is done

Again it's each person's own call on whether to use one or not. The words used in the Act are both vague and specific. Vague in that only three word are used to describe a multitude of things, and specific in that they can be used to describe items, actions not necessarily associated with the word.

So once again it would be the decision of a Garda, if caught, as to whether to try and go forward with a prosecution. IOW discretionary powers.

garv123

The WDAI were selling deer calls at birr... :rolleyes:

Cass

Clever. :rolleyes:

While not illegal to sell or own (only to use) what message does it send out?

The Aussie

garv123 wrote: »

The WDAI were selling deer calls at birr... :rolleyes:

You can also legally possess Broardheads for ornamental purposes.

And you can also own a Metal Detector but it does not mean you can use it without Departmental consent, could go on really...

PL05

As far as im aware, its not illegal to possess a deer call but it is illegal to use one, so i suppose you would have to be caught in the act using one for any prosecution to happen. As for the WDAI selling them, its a bit like people in glass houses, as im sure i,ve read somewhere in a book that they had a hand in, stating that its illegal to use one, i could be wrong but im sure they know what the laws are Re: this.

Cass

Still.

If you are an organisation supposedly forwarding the conservation and management of deer why be seen to advocate such items. As selling them would imply.

PL05

Cass wrote: »

Still.

If you are an organisation supposedly forwarding the conservation and management of deer why be seen to advocate such items. As selling them would imply.

Exactly. People in glass houses.

garv123

The Aussie wrote: »

You can also legally possess Broardheads for ornamental purposes.

And you can also own a Metal Detector but it does not mean you can use it without Departmental consent, could go on really...

We know that but they also said its legal to use them because they are not electric.. they werent selling them as ornaments..

Cass

PL05 wrote: »

.............. its a bit like people in glass houses, ..........

PL05 wrote: »

Exactly. People in glass houses.

I'm not 100% with it tonight (young lad in hospital so not getting much sleep) but what is this "people in glass houses" you keep referring to?

PL05

garv123 wrote: »

We know that but they also said its legal to use them because they are not electric.. they werent selling them as ornaments..

They dont make the laws.

The Aussie

garv123 wrote: »

We know that but they also said its legal to use them because they are not electric.. they werent selling them as ornaments..

Did they give that in writing? It would not be them going through the Courts, being fined and being refused a Deer Licence for 3 years with the possibility of having their Rifles confiscated.

Might bang them off an email to the WDAI and the NPWS to see what mayhem can be started :pac:

garv123

PL05 wrote: »

They dont make the laws.

The Aussie wrote: »

Did they give that in writing? It would not be them going through the Courts, being fined and being refused a Deer Licence for 3 years with the possibility of having their Rifles confiscated.

Might bang them off an email to the WDAI and the NPWS to see what mayhem can be started :pac:

I'm not saying its legal, or that they make the laws.

Im just pointing out how idiotic it is that they sell them and claim they're legal hence the :rolleyes: in my first post.

PL05

Cass wrote: »

I'm not 100% with it tonight (young lad in hospital so not getting much sleep) but what is this "people in glass houses" you keep referring to?

Sorry about young lad. What i mean by that is the WDAI, irish deer society etc, stated in HCAP manual that its illegal to use calls and then thay sell them. i suppose the word i should be using is contradiction.

The Aussie

garv123 wrote: »

I'm not saying its legal, or that they make the laws.

Im just pointing out how idiotic it is that they sell them and claim they're legal hence the :rolleyes: in my first post.

garv123 wrote: »

We know that but they also said its legal to use them because they are not electric.. they werent selling them as ornaments..

But yet you keep on saying it Legal...



Using they does not count sorry.

rowa

Legal to possess, but illegal to use on game ?

garv123

The Aussie wrote: »

But yet you keep on saying it Legal...



Using they does not count sorry.

Nitpicking much?

The Aussie

garv123 wrote: »

Nitpicking much?

Not much on :pac: ....

PL05

Wonder how you,d stand with law if you used one to call in a stag for photography.

Cass

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Im assuming a call bird couldnt be construed as an "instrument" :eek:

Read the rest of it and call birds are specifically mentioned in part 5 of section 35. You can use one, but only to hunt the same species and only under license. They also set out the list of birds you can do this with here.

There is also a list of conditions that must be met (feeding, watering, etc the call bird).

PL05 wrote:

Wonder how you,d stand with law if you used one to call in a stag for photography.

Haven't bother reading it all, but i see no mention of photography which is odd as it's usually granted some sort of leeway in other parts of the Act (lamping, etc).

Birdnuts

Cass wrote: »

Read the rest of it and call birds are specifically mentioned in part 5 of section 35. You can use one, but only to hunt the same species and only under license. They also set out the list of birds you can do this with here.

).

Just to add that the current list of non-game birds that can be legally controlled and decoyed is listed under the derogations that came in after the EU birds directive was adopted by Ireland some years after the 1976 act mentioned above. The link below has a file at the end listing the crow and pigeon species concerned

http://www.npws.ie/legislationandconventions/irishlaw/eubirdsdirectivederogations/

Vegeta

PL05 wrote: »

Wonder how you,d stand with law if you used one to call in a stag for photography.

Completely legal.

Section 35 paragraph 1 d of the act is specific to hunting and the definition of hunting allows for unarmed people to take photos.

Vegeta

Just to bring a bit of balance. We would definitely look at the various deer interest groups from a stalking/hunting perspective, us being hunters n all.

Sure they have hunters as members but I'd guess their membership base includes people with no interest in hunting deer too. For most of those people, the callers would be legal.