Fifa Ballon d'Or 2013 - discussion thread.

sReq | uTeK

Andersonisgod wrote: »

There's no denying that Ronaldo is a brilliant player, to claim otherwise is ridiculous but, to me, this was a victory by default. Messi's injuries, coupled with FIFA's curious decision to push back the voting deadline to facilitate public opinion turning in favour of Ronaldo following his heroics in getting Portugal to the World Cup and finally the simple fact that I can't shake that belief that a player who cost 80 million pound main man playing in one of the most expensively assembled teams in the history of football, at a club with, arguably, the greatest resources of any in the world, should be declared the best player in the world in a season in which his team won nothing seems somewhat hollow.

There's no denying Ronaldo's talents but, for me, Messi remains in a league of his own.

Ah, another great post, should have given it to Valdez or Pique, NO?

What I don't understand nor can I fathom is how people don't yet understand this is an INDIVIDUAL AWARD, your TEAM has nothing to do with how you're judged.

Well deserved and easily the best player on the planet over the course of the last calendar year. Too say it's a victory by default is just arrogance beyond belief, you have NO idea what would have happened if Messi was fit. None. To say otherwise is just finger in the air nonsense.

maximoose

I can understand people arguing that Ronaldo doesn't deserve the award and Messi should have won (I don't agree)

But now we actually have someone arguing that he is not world class. Jesus H Christ.

sReq | uTeK

Andersonisgod wrote: »

As I said above, then give it to Ribery. Personally I found Messi and Ribery more deserving candidates of the award.

So as you put it in a previous post, that was a half fit messi who wasn't playing to his potential, but hey he still deserved it over the best player in the world.

God your posts are just painstakingly cringe worthy, haven't you gone across to support Bayern yet? I hear they have Pep and.....oh yea they beat a certain Barcelona 7-0 over two legs, or are you going back to Chelsea?

Courtesy Flush

I suppose Messi cant win every year. Hes still the best player though. Class is permanent

DeanAustin

I cannot believe there is someone claiming Ronaldo isn't world class. Sweet suffering Jesus. Okay, he has a face that you'd love to punch and if he doesn't play for your team you probably hate him. But claiming the fella, who has been absolutely magnificent over the last 7-10 years is not world class?

There is so much you could type to blow the argument out of the water but it just ain't worth the effort. If Ronaldo isn't world class in your view then it's because you aren't living in this world.

Skylinehead

I prefer watching Messi, and I do think he's the better player on ability and when both are fully fit, but Ronaldo clearly deserved it this year, and to claim he isn't world class is just :pac:

Giggsy11

Andersonisgod wrote: »

There's no denying that Ronaldo is a brilliant player, to claim otherwise is ridiculous but, to me, this was a victory by default. Messi's injuries, coupled with FIFA's curious decision to push back the voting deadline to facilitate public opinion turning in favour of Ronaldo following his heroics in getting Portugal to the World Cup and finally the simple fact that I can't shake that belief that a player who cost 80 million pound main man playing in one of the most expensively assembled teams in the history of football, at a club with, arguably, the greatest resources of any in the world, should be declared the best player in the world in a season in which his team won nothing seems somewhat hollow.

There's no denying Ronaldo's talents but, for me, Messi remains in a league of his own.

Didn't Messi win the award when Ronaldo's Madrid won La Liga and in the same season Chelsea winning CL? Did you say Messi, a player playing infront of one of the best ever midfield trio winning nothing shouldn't have won the award?

Dolph Starbeam

I still think, even though Ronaldo had a phenomenal year, it will probably be remembered as the year that Ronaldo won it because Messi was injured for a couple months.

Shanotheslayer

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Didn't Messi win the award when Ronaldo's Madrid won La Liga and in the same season Chelsea winning CL? Did you say Messi, a player playing infront of one of the best ever midfield trio winning nothing shouldn't have won the award?

Didn't Barca win Copa that year?

sReq | uTeK

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Didn't Messi win the award when Ronaldo's Madrid won La Liga and in the same season Chelsea winning CL? Did you say Messi, a player playing infront of one of the best ever midfield trio winning nothing shouldn't have won the award?

If I could thank this post a million times I would, can't wait to see the reply, or lack there of.

sReq | uTeK

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Didn't Barca win Copa that year?

Haha.

TimeToShine

This is a very strange thread.

If you miss 4+ months of a year injured you are never going to win player of the year. I would have preferred Ribery to win it but Ronaldo definitely deserved it.

How Schweinsteigger isn't in that team of the year I'll never know. I understand Vidal, although probably the best CM in the world right now, being left out but Schweinsteigger? And Xavi ahead of him? Ridiculous.

We'll see what Messi is made of now in the WC. I don't doubt he's the best player in the world and probably the best of all time but here's his chance, with no Xavi and Iniesta behind him, to prove it once and for all.

Alfred Borden

Thought Robben and Schwein should have been in instead of Xavi and Iniesta.
Shows how much of a joke the voting is when Iker was second choice GK, he only played three league games in 2013.c

astonaidan

Well today, I learned people know nothing about football post in the football forum, time for me to head to the Aviation area and hand out advice

Seriously though Ronaldo not world class, come on guys thats just silly

On a different note, they really need to change how its voted for, this is nothing against Ronaldo winning, I love him, its when you look a bit deeper and see some off the votes its crazy. Xavi has as much reason to be there as Tom Cleverly. Iker was on the goalie list aswell, thats just madness

Andersonisgod

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Haha.

Now I'm no mathematician, so forgive this sweet, humble country bumpkin if he is mistaken, but I had thought that 1 Copa Del Rey > 0 Copa Del Rey's

weldoninhio

Well done Ronaldo, only needed Messi to be injured, the voting to be changed and to canvass like a madman (Seriously all those Ronaldo faces in the Bernabau, pathetic)

Has anyone else ever canvassed for the Ballon D'or??

HazDanz

weldoninhio wrote: »

Well done Ronaldo, only needed Messi to be injured, the voting to be changed and to canvass like a madman (Seriously all those Ronaldo faces in the Bernabau, pathetic)

Has anyone else ever canvassed for the Ballon D'or??

He didn't need to canvass anything. He was the best footballer last year and his peers recognised that fact.

Don't undercut his achievement, because it's a remarkable one.

kryogen

weldoninhio wrote: »

Well done Ronaldo, only needed Messi to be injured, the voting to be changed and to canvass like a madman (Seriously all those Ronaldo faces in the Bernabau, pathetic)

Has anyone else ever canvassed for the Ballon D'or??

I think I know what you're looking for

Richard Hillman

weldoninhio wrote: »

Well done Ronaldo, only needed Messi to be injured, the voting to be changed and to canvass like a madman (Seriously all those Ronaldo faces in the Bernabau, pathetic)

Has anyone else ever canvassed for the Ballon D'or??

Are you like #TeamEdward or like #TeamJacob like?
Who is you fav 1D member like?

weldoninhio

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Are you like #TeamEdward or like #TeamJacob like?
Who is you fav 1D member like?

No clue as to who Edward or Jacob are, not into 1D.

Rayne Wooney

weldoninhio wrote: »

No clue as to who Edward or Jacob are, not into 1D.

You're a 2 D man then?

Andersonisgod

kryogen wrote: »

I think I know what you're looking for

Not that your posting pictures as a substitution for a reasoned argument isn't original (cos it is!) but I like that you are so secure in your own originality that you can post the same pic already used on this thread, already used in practically the same argument. Your sheer wit and the flawless argument which you have put forward make me rather bitter (hahaha!!!!!) towards you, you who are clearly a gladiator of debate and a seasoned veteran of point-making.

LiamoSail

Is the Ballon D'or not an award for what a player has done, as oppose to what he would have done had he not been injured/suspended etc

Ronaldo did more then anyone else last year to win the award. Yes he's extremely vein and yes it looks as if he canvassed more then anyone before him. But the fact is he did more on the pitch to win it then anyone else. Fair play to him. He was determined to win it and pushed himself on to levels most wouldn't have seen him reaching to do so.

Talib Fiasco

Well done Ronaldo, hard luck to Messi and Ribery. In other years they would have walked it...Ron was due another one to be fair, probably deserved it a few years back more than now but it all works out...it's still blindly obvious that Messi is the best player on the planet though. Let's hope for a good 2014 eh?

764dak

Messi is one overrated soccer player.

MD1990

off the top of my head
Messi against big teams in 2013

Real Madrid - 1 Goal in 4 games
AC Milan - 3 Goals in 3
PSG - 1 Goal in 2
Atletico Madrid- 0 Goals in 3
Bayern Munich - 0 Goals in 1

as u can see he didn't perform that well in the big games

MD1990

off the top of my head
Messi against big teams in 2013

Real Madrid - 1 Goal in 4 games
AC Milan - 3 Goals in 3
PSG - 1 Goal in 2
Atletico Madrid- 0 Goals in 3
Bayern Munich - 0 Goals in 1

as u can see he didn't perform that well in the big games

Rayne Wooney

Messi can win it back in 2014 if he's good enough , he lost fair and square to the best footballer in 2013

No need for the bitterness

Backstreet Moyes

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Now I'm no mathematician, so forgive this sweet, humble country bumpkin if he is mistaken, but I had thought that 1 Copa Del Rey > 0 Copa Del Rey's

Is their any reason you ignored Giggy11's post but responded to this post?

Talib Fiasco

Obviously the greatest players are going to be overrated, why would Messi, perhaps the greatest player of all time be any different? Eamonn Dunphy (I know) has said that Ronaldo is on Pele's level now...coming from a guy who has criticised Ronaldo openly and stated he was nowhere near Messi's level up until recently. So yeah both Ronaldo and Messi are overrated but chances are in ten fifteen years time we'll look back and wonder if we really appreciated these two enough.

764dak

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

Obviously the greatest players are going to be overrated, why would Messi, perhaps the greatest player of all time be any different? Eamonn Dunphy (I know) has said that Ronaldo is on Pele's level now...coming from a guy who has criticised Ronaldo openly and stated he was nowhere near Messi's level up until recently. So yeah both Ronaldo and Messi are overrated but chances are in ten fifteen years time we'll look back and wonder if we really appreciated these two enough.

Or look back and wonder if we underappreciated the other players...

Corholio

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Not that your posting pictures as a substitution for a reasoned argument isn't original (cos it is!) but I like that you are so secure in your own originality that you can post the same pic already used on this thread, already used in practically the same argument. Your sheer wit and the flawless argument which you have put forward make me rather bitter (hahaha!!!!!) towards you, you who are clearly a gladiator of debate and a seasoned veteran of point-making.

Even after Ronaldo picking up the award, I genuinely thought there'd be at least a bit of graciousness in him winning deservedly. But I have to say I was surprised, not even jokingly surprised, but genuinely surprised at the bitterness of your subsequent posts, about Messi being injured, Ribery being more deserving, Ronaldo playing in a star studded team despite not acknowledging the very same thing with Messi etc etc etc.

But anyway, well deserved by Ronaldo, he really was a phenomenon this year. Unlucky Ribery, but to be honest I didn't think he was even the best Bayern player last year.

Andersonisgod

Nuts102 wrote: »

Is their any reason you ignored Giggy11's post but responded to this post?

I pick and choose which comments I respond to based on which post restricts my ability to reply sarcastically the least. (this, of course, is sarcasm)

Andersonisgod

Corholio wrote: »

Even after Ronaldo picking up the award, I genuinely thought there'd be at least a bit of graciousness in him winning deservedly. But I have to say I was surprised, not even jokingly surprised, but genuinely surprised at the bitterness of your subsequent posts, about Messi being injured, Ribery being more deserving, Ronaldo playing in a star studded team despite not acknowledging the very same thing with Messi etc etc etc.

But anyway, well deserved by Ronaldo, he really was a phenomenon this year. Unlucky Ribery, but to be honest I didn't think he was even the best Bayern player last year.

I'm not denying that Ronaldo is a fantastic player, at no stage in this thread have I claimed otherwise. However I've simply raised questions about should a player who cost so much, playing at the biggest club in the world win the player of the year in a season in which he drove them on to win precisely 0 trophies, personally I think that's a valid question. I also think the question of the voting deadline being extended is another valid question. So these are things that, for me, would make me view the award somewhat skeptically. As another poster has said on this thread, either way I think this year's award will simply be remembered as the year that Messi was injured.

These aren't hypothetical scenarios, the 0 trophies, the voting extension, the Messi injury, these are facts, I am simply highlighting them.

kryogen

Sergio
Xavi
Iniesta

3 gems right there that have been crucial to Barcelonas success, driven them on to trophies.

Not knocking Messi at all, just highlighting some more fachts.


Edit:

On a separate issue, anybody who has a problem with the voting extension which, you know, made sure more of the year was counted in the votes, making it even fairer then usual, is just plain nuts. The voting should be done at the end of the year, every year. The most fair way to do it.

764dak

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I'm not denying that Ronaldo is a fantastic player, at no stage in this thread have I claimed otherwise. However I've simply raised questions about should a player who cost so much, playing at the biggest club in the world win the player of the year in a season in which he drove them on to win precisely 0 trophies, personally I think that's a valid question. I also think the question of the voting deadline being extended is another valid question. So these are things that, for me, would make me view the award somewhat skeptically. As another poster has said on this thread, either way I think this year's award will simply be remembered as the year that Messi was injured.

These aren't hypothetical scenarios, the 0 trophies, the voting extension, the Messi injury, these are facts, I am simply highlighting them.

In an ideal world the voting deadline should end December 31.

Andersonisgod

kryogen wrote: »

Sergio
Xavi
Iniesta

3 gems right there that have been crucial to Barcelonas success, driven them on to trophies.

Not knocking Messi at all, just highlighting some more fachts.

In the year 2013 Ronaldo has played with Ozil, Alonso, Modric, Benzema, Higuain, Di Maria, Bale and Isco. A side custom built for him. A custom built side which cost considerably more than the 3 players you listed above, infact I think the total cost of those players amounts to something rather close to 0.

Undoubtedly Messi is Barcelona's main man and he is ably assisted by a world class team, a team that costs quite a bit less than their Real Madrid counter parts and yet despite Ronaldo and Madrid's best efforts, Messi's Barcelona have dominated this era in Spain and have been far more successful in Europe.

Andersonisgod

kryogen wrote: »

Sergio
Xavi
Iniesta

3 gems right there that have been crucial to Barcelonas success, driven them on to trophies.

Not knocking Messi at all, just highlighting some more fachts.


Edit:

On a separate issue, anybody who has a problem with the voting extension which, you know, made sure more of the year was counted in the votes, making it even fairer then usual, is just plain nuts. The voting should be done at the end of the year, every year. The most fair way to do it.

Obviously that's not my problem with the voting deadline extension, however that's a nice example of mis-interpretation. My problem with it is that it seemed to occur simply to favour Ronaldo. Should the voting happen as late as possible in the year? Probably yes, should the rules be changed at the last moment to favour a candidate? Certainly not.

Backstreet Moyes

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I pick and choose which comments I respond to based on which post restricts my ability to reply sarcastically the least. (this, of course, is sarcasm)

No your dodging a post because it makes a mockery of one of your arguments about Ronaldo winning the award.

kryogen

Andersonisgod wrote: »

In the year 2013 Ronaldo has played with Ozil, Alonso, Modric, Benzema, Higuain, Di Maria, Bale and Isco. A side custom built for him. A custom built side which cost considerably more than the 3 players you listed above, infact I think the total cost of those players amounts to something rather close to 0.

Undoubtedly Messi is Barcelona's main man and he is ably assisted by a world class team, a team that costs quite a bit less than their Real Madrid counter parts and yet despite Ronaldo and Madrid's best efforts, Messi's Barcelona have dominated this era in Spain and have been far more successful in Europe.

Not sure I want to give you the time of day any more since you cherry pick which posts to reply to so carefully.

You think Barcelona have not spent much money in the last few years? Bit mad, you think the players set their own values and as such should play to them? Bit mad also.

Actually, its stupid in the extreme, Redknapp-esque in fact.

Also, a lack of basic understanding of how team sports work continues to rear its head here. No one player will win a team trophies, nobody .

I had more, lots more, but I deleted it as Ill be hitting the hay soon and as I said, its no fun debating with someone who picks his spots like a politician.

Andersonisgod

Nuts102 wrote: »

No your dodging a post because it makes a mockery of one of your arguments about Ronaldo winning the award.

I've actually just answered that argument above, perhaps don't be so hasty with your posts in future Nuts.

Andersonisgod

kryogen wrote: »

Not sure I want to give you the time of day any more since you cherry pick which posts to reply to so carefully.

You think Barcelona have not spent much money in the last few years? Bit mad, you think the players set their own values and as such should play to them? Bit mad also.

Actually, its stupid in the extreme, Redknapp-esque in fact.

Also, a lack of basic understanding of how team sports work continues to rear its head here. No one player will win a team trophies, nobody .

I had more, lots more, but I deleted it as Ill be hitting the hay soon and as I said, its no fun debating with someone who picks his spots like a politician.

Oh how I shall miss these incessant virtual jousts.

Have they spent as much as Real Madrid? No. How much did the 3 players (which YOU named) cost on comparison to the plethora of players which I named? They don't set their own values, however that is how much their selling club and Real Madrid valued them at so yes I would rather expect a player bought for 80 million pound to contribute more than a player bought for 2 million pound, though again, my expectations may be too high.

Zidane 1998 World Cup, Ronaldo 2002 World Cup, Gerrard 2005 Champions League, Messi 2011 Champions League, Drogba 2012 Champions League. All players who dragged their team over the line to glory, obviously they were all assisted by teammates, however they went above and beyond the norm to deliver glory to their team. Winning tournaments, afterall, is the on-field aim of a football club, so yes, I do believe that a teams success and a players contribution to that success should play a part in assessing a player. Has Ronaldo delivered for Madrid what those players did for their respective clubs?

Of course I pick my spots, if I responded to every little thing someone posts at me or if I were to expand further on my thoughts I might never sleep, and you wouldn't like me when I'm grumpy.

Too Tough To Die

Jesus, what's the argument here?

Is Messi better - Yes
Did Ronaldo do enough to shade it this year - Yes, although you could argue either way
Were the goalposts moved to accommodate Ronaldo - Yes
Would Ronaldo have won it had Messi been fully fit all year - Most likely not

Backstreet Moyes

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Zidane 1998 World Cup, Ronaldo 2002 World Cup, Gerrard 2005 Champions League, Messi 2011 Champions League, Drogba 2012 Champions League. All players who dragged their team over the line to glory, obviously they were all assisted by teammates, however they went above and beyond the norm to deliver glory to their team. Winning tournaments, afterall, is the on-field aim of a football club, so yes, I do believe that a teams success and a players contribution to that success should play a part in assessing a player. Has Ronaldo delivered for Madrid what those players did for their respective clubs?

What is your point are you saying all these players should have won the Ballon D'or?

Rayne Wooney

Ronaldo La Liga 11/12???

Backstreet Moyes

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Ronaldo La Liga 11/12???

But Messi dragged Barca to win the Copa Del Rey so he deserved it.

Corholio

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Oh how I shall miss these incessant virtual jousts.

Have they spent as much as Real Madrid? No. How much did the 3 players (which YOU named) cost on comparison to the plethora of players which I named? They don't set their own values, however that is how much their selling club and Real Madrid valued them at so yes I would rather expect a player bought for 80 million pound to contribute more than a player bought for 2 million pound, though again, my expectations may be too high.

Zidane 1998 World Cup, Ronaldo 2002 World Cup, Gerrard 2005 Champions League, Messi 2011 Champions League, Drogba 2012 Champions League. All players who dragged their team over the line to glory, obviously they were all assisted by teammates, however they went above and beyond the norm to deliver glory to their team. Winning tournaments, afterall, is the on-field aim of a football club, so yes, I do believe that a teams success and a players contribution to that success should play a part in assessing a player. Has Ronaldo delivered for Madrid what those players did for their respective clubs?

Of course I pick my spots, if I responded to every little thing someone posts at me or if I were to expand further on my thoughts I might never sleep, and you wouldn't like me when I'm grumpy.

Ronaldo hasn't gone above and beyond to try and deliver glory?

It's an ancient cliche to determine a player performance on the teams end result, half disregarding any phenomenal contribution. If Messi scored 80 goals next season, breaking more records and Barcelona won nothing, you certainly wouldn't be playing this tune, and you know it yourself you wouldn't.

Liam O

Did the CL in 2008 not happen in our man Anderson's mind? Or is it only his Madrid career that counts? Strange parameters. Remember him playing quite well in the Euros and multiple CLs too since then. But let's as usual be ignorant to things to prove an incredibly biased point.

Rayne Wooney

He scored 16 goals in 11 CL games in 2013 against teams like Dortmund, Juve, and United etc

But because he wasn't simultaneously goalkeeping, defending, midfielding and attacking at the same time while winning trophies, he doesn't deserve to win the Balon D'Or

Makes sense

The Golden Miller

I think andersonisgod is referring to the way the mentioned players grabbed the game by the scruff of the neck and bossed and dictated it to the opposition. Exerting their influence by pulling the strings through the center and near single handedly beating the opposition regardless of whether they personally scored or not. Predictably Ronaldo fans are about to fall back on the fact Ronaldo got a header in the 08 final, and equate this to the same as going above and beyond to dragging his team to glory