Fifa Ballon d'Or 2013 - discussion thread.

Paul Tergat

Over 2013 Ronaldo was the best player in the world. I can't believe people are even trying to debate it. Fully deserved.

Paul Tergat

Liam O wrote: »

Ha! The 'doesn't do it in the big games' attack rears it's ugly head again. Hilariously bad reporting.

Then there's the big games where he himself got Portugal to the World Cup. Not many bigger games than that? Nope, apparently not, the writer dismisses that. Load of ****e article

edit: That guy says he thought Lahm was the rightful winner. Professional writer????

The_Kew_Tour

Paul Tergat wrote: »

Over 2013 Ronaldo was the best player in the world. I can't believe people are even trying to debate it. Fully deserved.

They're just little bitter I say;)

Paul Tergat

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

They're just little bitter I say;)

It's really sad

Backstreet Moyes

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1875328-why-cristiano-ronaldos-ballon-dor-sends-the-wrong-message Great read on why Ronaldo should not have won.

That's one of worst articles i have ever seen i loved the part below. Loved the part about if Ronaldo got a reality check like Robben he could fire Real to a treble. If he stopped opening museums he might increase that average 67 goals last season up to 97 and lead Real to a glorious treble.

The_Kew_Tour

Nuts102 wrote: »

That's one of worst articles i have ever seen i loved the part below. Loved the part about if Ronaldo got a reality check like Robben he could fire Real to a treble. If he stopped opening museums he might increase that average 67 goals last season up to 97 and lead Real to a glorious treble.

In fairness thats why its such a great article:pac:

Backstreet Moyes

Liam O wrote: »

Ha! The 'doesn't do it in the big games' attack rears it's ugly head again. Hilariously bad reporting.

Ye it's fairly handy alright that he cherry picked 5 games Ronaldo didn't perform in and ignored the rest of his big performances in big games.

I am not going to check it out but i hardly believe his stat that only 8 of his goals were Real's first goal of a game. 8 out of 67 seems way to low if it's true people backing him for first goal must be in the poorhouse. I can't believe that it's true, most games i look at he opened the scoring.

bucketybuck

Liam O wrote: »

Ha! The 'doesn't do it in the big games' attack rears it's ugly head again. Hilariously bad reporting.

I'm not even clicking that link. You can't honestly say some idiot is using the "doesn't do it in big games" claim again? Because if so...:rolleyes:

Paul Tergat

Nuts102 wrote: »

Ye it's fairly handy alright that he cherry picked 5 games Ronaldo didn't perform in and ignored the rest of his big performances in big games.

I am not going to check it out but i hardly believe his stat that only 8 of his goals were Real's first goal of a game. 8 out of 67 seems way to low if it's true people backing him for first goal must be in the poorhouse. I can't believe that it's true, most games i look at he opened the scoring.

I've no doubt there was some careful selection involved. It ignores instances say where he doesnt get first goal and having been 1 up they go 2-1 down but he might get the next 3 to get his team out of a hole. Sad, biased Bundesliga 'writer' with a pretty clear agenda. Ronaldo hate is still strong.

The Golden Miller

Nuts102 wrote: »

Barca 35 shots on goal 11 on target.
United 13 shots on goal 3 on target.

You can try talk about possession football all you want but stats are very relevant to this point. Possession can be misleading but i don't see how you can deny Barca were the more attacking and dominant team. The fact is Messi got much better service but couldn't score over both legs.

It always comes back to scoring with Ronaldo fans. Point is neither scored, yet Messi (just back from injury) was brilliant, showing other brilliant creative dimensions of his game. He wasn't getting service because he was providing it and was roaming into the deep midfield areas to pick the ball up to try and make something happen. United choose to let Barca have the ball in that game as they knew they were useless by end of Rijkaards reign. But trust Ronaldo fans to go back to the stats and twist it into something it's not. Rijkaard had lost the Barca dressing room by that stage and most of the big egos left at the end of that season, and to claim that Barca team were anything but average shows how little you know. Even a Ronaldo fan has agreed with me on that point about Barca. So even the year United won the Champions League, there was never a point Ronaldo took control of a game, dictated it and won it for them

Corholio

The Golden Miller wrote: »

It always comes back to scoring with Ronaldo fans. Point is neither scored, yet Messi (just back from injury) was brilliant, showing other brilliant creative dimensions of his game. He wasn't getting service because he was providing it and was roaming into the deep midfield areas to pick the ball up to try and make something happen. United choose to let Barca have the ball in that game as they knew they were useless by end of Rijkaards reign. But trust Ronaldo fans to go back to the stats and twist it into something it's not. Rijkaard had lost the Barca dressing room by that stage and most of the big egos left at the end of that season, and to claim that Barca team were anything but average shows how little you know. Even a Ronaldo fan has agreed with me on that point about Barca. So even the year United won the Champions League, there was never a point Ronaldo took control of a game, dictated it and won it for them

For the whole of 2012, Messi fans were frothing at the mouth about Messi's goals tally (rightly so), there was plenty about scoring then. The way you talk about Ronaldo as if he does very little else except score tap ins that other people did all the work for. The fact about a lot of Ronaldo's goals is that he chooses to, and has to make goals out of nothing himself. It's a lovely situation to have Xavi and Iniesta playing behind you, while Ronaldo by no means has bad players behind him, he's had noone of that calibre, so he ends up doing it a lot himself.

It's actually sad that the thread has turned into Ronaldo hating and excuses. It should be about celebrating 3 great players who were nominated and 1 deserving winner.

Andersonisgod

The Golden Miller wrote: »

It always comes back to scoring with Ronaldo fans. Point is neither scored, yet Messi (just back from injury) was brilliant, showing other brilliant creative dimensions of his game. He wasn't getting service because he was providing it and was roaming into the deep midfield areas to pick the ball up to try and make something happen. United choose to let Barca have the ball in that game as they knew they were useless by end of Rijkaards reign. But trust Ronaldo fans to go back to the stats and twist it into something it's not. Rijkaard had lost the Barca dressing room by that stage and most of the big egos left at the end of that season, and to claim that Barca team were anything but average shows how little you know. Even a Ronaldo fan has agreed with me on that point about Barca. So even the year United won the Champions League, there was never a point Ronaldo took control of a game, dictated it and won it for them

What you say is entirely true, but I think you are expecting a bit much in assuming that some posters will know the ins and outs of the Barcelona dressing room at the time (no matter how often it's been brought to the public domain). It's abundantly clear that ignorance appears to be par for the course with some.

You are spot on about Messi though, far more than just goals and even in Rijkaard's chaotic final season, he was the shining light badly needed as Ronaldinho was fading.

The Golden Miller

Corholio wrote: »

For the whole of 2012, Messi fans were frothing at the mouth about Messi's goals tally (rightly so), there was plenty about scoring then. The way you talk about Ronaldo as if he does very little else except score tap ins that other people did all the work for. The fact about a lot of Ronaldo's goals is that he chooses to, and has to make goals out of nothing himself. It's a lovely situation to have Xavi and Iniesta playing behind you, while Ronaldo by no means has bad players behind him, he's had noone of that calibre, so he ends up doing it a lot himself.

It's actually sad that the thread has turned into Ronaldo hating and excuses. It should be about celebrating 3 great players who were nominated and 1 deserving winner.

Opinion is always going to be divided on Ronaldo. His attitude for one, which doesn't really bother me, envy by fans of other teams over the amount of goals he gets which in fairness is unprecedented. But also for his lack of playmaking abilities. He'll never drag a team to glory in the way someone like Kaka did in 07 with Milan

darced

This post has been deleted.

Corholio

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Opinion is always going to be divided on Ronaldo. His attitude for one, which doesn't really bother me, envy by fans of other teams over the amount of goals he gets which in fairness is unprecedented. But also for his lack of playmaking abilities. He'll never drag a team to glory in the way someone like Kaka did in 07 with Milan

Never drag a team to glory? You've a long time to wait before that's proved. All your doing is comparing him as a clone to Messi, they are different players. His assists and chances created stats still stand up highly to anyone else in world football. He isn't the type of player to go deep and pick up the ball and ping balls back and forth, Xavi and Messi like, but a lot of great players aren't like that. Maradona wasn't even like that, it's just different styles. Not just the one born, or at least implented at Barca.

kryogen

Dragged United to a CL win and 3 titles in a row
Dragged Real Madrid to a title
Dragged Portugal to the WC despite the best efforts of the rest of the team

Yep, never drags teams to glory

Edit: As another observation

In this fantasy world some live in, the Brazilian Ronaldo would not be considered World Class

How funny is that?!

TimeToShine

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Opinion is always going to be divided on Ronaldo. His attitude for one, which doesn't really bother me, envy by fans of other teams over the amount of goals he gets which in fairness is unprecedented. But also for his lack of playmaking abilities. He'll never drag a team to glory in the way someone like Kaka did in 07 with Milan

This is ridiculous. So Cannavaro winning the Ballon D'or in 2006 was a joke because he didn't "drag the team to glory" by using his great play-making abilities? Ronaldo's job is to score goals. How is someone in his position supposed to be a play-maker? You'd almost think Messi didn't have Xavi and Iniesta behind him the way some of you are talking. Yes, Messi is an amazing goal-scorer and can create chances too, but in the year 2013 with everything taken into account Ronaldo had the most impressive run of form and rightly deserves his reward.

The_Kew_Tour

The Golden Miller wrote: »

It always comes back to scoring with Ronaldo fans.

This was the funny bit.

Yet its all what non Ronaldo fans ever talk about

The Golden Miller

Corholio wrote: »

Never drag a team to glory? You've a long time to wait before that's proved. All your doing is comparing him as a clone to Messi, they are different players. His assists and chances created stats still stand up highly to anyone else in world football. He isn't the type of player to go deep and pick up the ball and ping balls back and forth, Xavi and Messi like, but a lot of great players aren't like that. Maradona wasn't even like that, it's just different styles. Not just the one born, or at least implented at Barca.

Maradona was like that. Infact he was the greatest orchestrator of all time, which is why he's rated so highly.

Ronaldos assists are born out of the fact he lingers around the goal so much, as opposed to actually being creative with vision or passing

The Golden Miller

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

This was the funny bit.

Yet its all what non Ronaldo fans ever talk about

Because Ronaldo fans never fail to mention it

The Golden Miller

kryogen wrote: »

Dragged United to a CL win and 3 titles in a row
Dragged Real Madrid to a title

Your a funny guy.

In fairness, he done his best work with Portugal this year

The Golden Miller

TimeToShine wrote: »

This is ridiculous. So Cannavaro winning the Ballon D'or in 2006 was a joke because he didn't "drag the team to glory" by using his great play-making abilities? Ronaldo's job is to score goals. How is someone in his position supposed to be a play-maker? You'd almost think Messi didn't have Xavi and Iniesta behind him the way some of you are talking. Yes, Messi is an amazing goal-scorer and can create chances too, but in the year 2013 with everything taken into account Ronaldo had the most impressive run of form and rightly deserves his reward.

Well I would have said Ribery, and still had Messi as number 2

darced

This post has been deleted.

The_Kew_Tour

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Because Ronaldo fans never fail to mention it

Really? You being bit childish now.

How many times have ye brought up the dont score in big games argument?

Far too many. I guess desperate times call for desperate measures, but even in this case you still lose.

kryogen

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Maradona was like that. Infact he was the greatest orchestrator of all time, which is why he's rated so highly.

Ronaldos assists are born out of the fact he lingers around the goal so much, as opposed to actually being creative with vision or passing

you claim he is an out and out striker yet you want him in the middle of the field creating for......himself? also?

Ronaldo has 3 assists less then Ribery who's job it is to actually provide for others.

Its ludicrous, complete, bitter, lunacy.

The Golden Miller

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Really? You being bit childish now.

How many times have ye brought up the dont score in big games argument?

Far too many. I guess desperate times call for desperate measures, but even in this case you still lose.

Because anytime I make a point, someone Ronaldo fan comes onto the scene to use some obscure "stat" to disprove the arguement. Always a stat or mention of goals when Ronaldo greatness is the topic of debate. Thats why I rate him as a world class striker. Gerd Muller level. But no matter what he does, if he doesn't improve the rest of his game in general play, he'll never become an all time great, the way in which Messi will

The Golden Miller

kryogen wrote: »

you claim he is an out and out striker yet you want him in the middle of the field creating for......himself? also?

Ronaldo has 3 assists less then Ribery who's job it is to actually provide for others.

Its ludicrous, complete, bitter, lunacy.

The reason he was moved from the wing to being an out and out striker is because he was so useless at playmaking

kryogen

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Because anytime I make a point, someone Ronaldo fan comes onto the scene to use some obscure "stat" to disprove the arguement. Always a stat or mention of goals when Ronaldo greatness is the topic of debate. Thats why I rate him as a world class striker. Gerd Muller level. But no matter what he does, if he doesn't improve the rest of his game in general play, he'll never become an all time great, the way in which Messi will

This post is full of delusion.

Hilarious delusion.

kryogen

The Golden Miller wrote: »

The reason he was moved from the wing to being an out and out striker is because he was so useless at playmaking

As I said, ludicrous, bitter, lunacy.

Rayne Wooney

Jesus he must be hitting China by now

The Golden Miller

kryogen wrote: »

This post is full of delusion.

Hilarious delusion.

Great point. I take it your a politician ye?

Turtwig

I'm sorry Ronaldo has the record for scoring in successive clasicos but he's not a big game player. Big game players don't set records like that! Bloody individualistic player!

The_Kew_Tour

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Because anytime I make a point, someone Ronaldo fan comes onto the scene to use some obscure "stat" to disprove the arguement. Always a stat or mention of goals when Ronaldo greatness is the topic of debate. Thats why I rate him as a world class striker. Gerd Muller level. But no matter what he does, if he doesn't improve the rest of his game in general play, he'll never become an all time great, the way in which Messi will

Not a bad point. I will say you maybe have something there tbf, about stats

However, one thing is flawed. Going by your post players like Ronaldo(brazilian), Maradona and Pele in past are not all time greats.

Which imo is crazy.

The Golden Miller

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Not a bad point. I will say you maybe have something there tbf, about stats

However, one thing is flawed. Going by your post players like Ronaldo(brazilian), Maradona and Pele in past are not all time greats.

Which imo is crazy.

I'm not sure with Pele as I've ever only seen very little from him in clips. I think there's an air of mystery around him as I'm not sure anybody claiming he is the best knows all that much about him, considering he never came to Europe and the lack of footage. He could be the best ever but personally I havn't seen enough of him to give an opinion one way or the other. I'd have Cruyff and Maradona at a level on their own. Two visionary's of the game. They had everything.

I'd have the two Ronaldos on a similar lever to each other. Amazing strikers, two of the best ever, but i think Brazilian Ronaldo had more to his game overall. He was better on a technical level I feel. Portuguese Ronaldo needs to add this to his game. Until then, opinion will stay so divided on him

Corholio

The Golden Miller wrote: »

I'm not sure with Pele as I've ever only seen very little from him in clips. I think there's an air of mystery around him as I'm not sure anybody claiming he is the best knows all that much about him, considering he never came to Europe and the lack of footage. He could be the best ever but personally I havn't seen enough of him to give an opinion one way or the other. I'd have Cruyff and Maradona at a level on their own. Two visionary's of the game. They had everything.

I'd have the two Ronaldos on a similar lever to each other. Amazing strikers, two of the best ever, but i think Brazilian Ronaldo had more to his game overall. He was better on a technical level I feel. Portuguese Ronaldo needs to add this to his game. Until then, opinion will stay so divided on him

I don't think opinion is divided to be honest. I think most people agree Ronaldo is a true world class player and will eventually go down as one of the greatest ever.

PerrinV2

First Ronaldo,now Pele,who's next?!! lol

Anyway this thread reminds me of this now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg_8knBHEyw

The Golden Miller

Corholio wrote: »

I don't think opinion is divided to be honest. I think most people agree Ronaldo is a true world class player and will eventually go down as one of the greatest ever.

Yes we all know Pele's stats. But what footage have you actually seen of Pele? Considering he never even played in Europe.

Opinion is very much divided on Ronaldo. This thread alone is a shining example

Corholio

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Maradona was like that. Infact he was the greatest orchestrator of all time, which is why he's rated so highly.

Ronaldos assists are born out of the fact he lingers around the goal so much, as opposed to actually being creative with vision or passing

What I was saying is that he didnt drop back and receive the ball, he just received it anyway. Of course he was creative.

You usually have to be around the goal to have an assist. Unless Messi has a ton load of 40 yard assists everyone's forgotten about. Even at that, Ronaldo doesn't even linger around the goal, he plays more wide and not up front as you said earlier. Benzema plays much more the central role for Real.

Corholio

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Yes we all know Pele's stats. But what footage have you actually seen of Pele? Considering he never even played in Europe.

Opinion is very much divided on Ronaldo. This thread alone is a shining example

I've seen lots of footage of Pele, as have many others. There is football outside of Europe, Barcelona would not be half the team they are today were it not for that.

A few peoples opinions does not mean 'divided'.

Messi is quite a poor player actually. Guess the opinion on him is divided now.

The Golden Miller

Corholio wrote: »

A few peoples opinions does not mean 'divided'.

Messi is quite a poor player actually. Guess the opinion on him is divided now.

Your one person, not really a general consensus.

Maradona drifted deep, wide and roamed everywhere on the field.

ahnowbrowncow

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Yes we all know Pele's stats. But what footage have you actually seen of Pele? Considering he never even played in Europe.

Opinion is very much divided on Ronaldo. This thread alone is a shining example

Opinion isn't divided. There are a few blind and stubborn Messi fans who refuse to accept that the twice world player of the year is world class.

You're even questioning the Brazilian Ronaldo? What is wrong with you?

Plus it's clear that you don't watch La Liga seeing as the only games you've referenced are his champions league ones so your opinion is baseless whereas must people who agree that Ronaldo is world class actually see him play week in week out.

The Golden Miller

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

Opinion isn't divided. There are a few blind and stubborn Messi fans who refuse to accept that the twice world player of the year is world class.

You're even questioning the Brazilian Ronaldo? What is wrong with you?

Plus it's clear that you don't watch La Liga seeing as the only games you've referenced are his champions league ones so your opinion is baseless whereas must people who agree that Ronaldo is world class actually see him play week in week out.

I regularly watch La Liga.

I never questioned the Brazilian Ronaldo at all.

The_Kew_Tour

The Golden Miller wrote: »

I'd have the two Ronaldos on a similar lever to each other.

The Golden Miller wrote: »

I regularly watch La Liga.

I never questioned the Brazilian Ronaldo at all.

Even though you gave Brazilian Ronaldo slight more praise you still have them short of all time greats.

Corholio

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Your one person, not really a general consensus.

Maradona drifted deep, wide and roamed everywhere on the field.

Seriously?? That was my point.

I don't actually think Messi is quite a poor player.

LuckyLloyd

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1875328-why-cristiano-ronaldos-ballon-dor-sends-the-wrong-message Great read on why Ronaldo should not have won.

lol bleacherreport always and forever

Giggsy11

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1875328-why-cristiano-ronaldos-ballon-dor-sends-the-wrong-message Great read on why Ronaldo should not have won.

What a load of nonsense, not surprising though as it is bleacherreport..

SlickRic

if you think Ronaldo is not world class, you need to stop watching football tbh.

there's other ways of playing football than the Barca way.

Ronaldo is big, strong, fast, skilful, can shoot with both feet, can head the ball, influences most big games and scores bucketloads of goals.

did anyone mention Messi doing fúck all v Bayern last year and say he doesn't influence big games?

fúck off they didn't.

Ronaldo has dragged teams to numerous trophies.

Ronaldo is top tier, end of.

Turtwig

Messi only ran 6km in that Bayern game. That's the very definition of not showing up. He played the full game too.

Vinz Mesrine

Lads it's over, he won. What is with all the arguing? Ronaldo is a ****ing phenom, we will most likely never see 2 players at this kind of level ever again so who really cares who wins this award between him and Messi? They are both so far ahead of the rest it's just silly. Let's just enjoy both of them instead of willy waving over which one is better.

kryogen

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Yes we all know Pele's stats. But what footage have you actually seen of Pele? Considering he never even played in Europe.

Opinion is very much divided on Ronaldo. This thread alone is a shining example

No

There is only one chap here who has said Ronaldo isnt world class.

That is not a divide, that is a lone nut