Where is everyone???

thermo

S.E.A.L.s wrote: »

My plan has been exposed, no time, pin out and leg it... :pac: ...

Remember its the pin you keep, the grenade you throw away!!

Southern Dandy

Any more ideas or suggestions lads? mods/posters that is.

We've come this far without any problems, it would be a shame to leave this go stale now.

S.E.A.L.s

Southern Dandy wrote: »

Any more ideas or suggestions lads? mods/posters that is.

We've come this far without any problems, it would be a shame to leave this go stale now.

Maybe this positive thread has ran it's course, as good ideas and team spirit has come to light, with steps taken and plans made to improve our forum

Well done everyone and if there is anything more to add, please post lads

andy_g

Hmmm Group meditation session on all sites? Ommmmmmmmm Ommmmmmmmm

sharpy2010

Ive been around this forum for over 3 years and wouldnt be the biggest poster but in that time i have seen 2 other "generations" of posters here. Its a lull before xmas when people get new toys it gets busy, but after the summer its usually quiet as some posters are starting college/full-time jobs and cant commit to airsoft like they used to.

Just wondering if you do decide to Join a few of the sub forums would it be a bad idea to have a thread tag like we do on adverts to clarify what the thread is be it event, technical or question?

I Armour I

sharpy2010 wrote: »

Ive been around this forum for over 3 years and wouldnt be the biggest poster but in that time i have seen 2 other "generations" of posters here. Its a lull before xmas when people get new toys it gets busy, but after the summer its usually quiet as some posters are starting college/full-time jobs and cant commit to airsoft like they used to.

Just wondering if you do decide to Join a few of the sub forums would it be a bad idea to have a thread tag like we do on adverts to clarify what the thread is be it event, technical or question?

Great idea +1

S.E.A.L.s

sharpy2010 wrote: »

Ive been around this forum for over 3 years and wouldnt be the biggest poster but in that time i have seen 2 other "generations" of posters here. Its a lull before xmas when people get new toys it gets busy, but after the summer its usually quiet as some posters are starting college/full-time jobs and cant commit to airsoft like they used to.

Just wondering if you do decide to Join a few of the sub forums would it be a bad idea to have a thread tag like we do on adverts to clarify what the thread is be it event, technical or question?

Gold, +1 for this idea

Inari

I don't know about everyone else, but I personally just gravitated away from boards. It was not a conscious decision to leave, but there was literally nothing bringing me back. People ask 'why leave', when in reality the question is 'what reason is there to stay?'

This is a discussion forum, with not much in the way of discussion. Personally I find almost no stimulation from this forum anymore - no spirited debates where people aren't getting personal, no intellectual debates about the merits of one system over another...it all ends up as one side or another ceding to people with greater reputation points, and that is a shame.

The only reason why I'm even on boards.ie now is because I had to go on for work to check PM's, check the HobbyAirsoft.ie retailer thread, and this topic caught my eye. Boards.ie is fast becoming obsolete for Irish airsoft. Don't get me wrong, most closed-community forums I view in the same light - they're fine for what they are, but due to a small 'gene pool' (for lack of a better term) there's very little discussion, debate and information floating around. As a result I spend most of my airsoft forum browsing time over on Arnies...and even that has gone quiet too.

What you want out of a discussion forum is:
- Steady flow of new members

- Consistent 'regular' users where there is banter, debate and general to & fro

- Information i.e. topics created where people are not only looking for information, but providing it too. Diversity is key here...no point in a hundred different M4 threads. You're looking for stimulation from information that you can glean and/or contribute to.

- News. Considering airsoft is a multifaceted hobby where new stuff is released regularly, and there are many different types of product available, it's nice to have a section where you can talk about each product and debate its usefulness, or validity.

- Content - so many people lurk, and don't post. Posting is generally left to a couple of users, and as such debates never really occur. People either agree, or stay silent and disagree. Similarly many times where there is a disagreement, it is rarely argued out favouring a concession almost immediately...where's the fun in that?

- Camaraderie. Although the internet, and particularly forums, are blessed with anonymity, you get to know people by their tag, and thus you can have an unusual type of banter. You don't actually know these people, and yet you are familiar with a small aspect of them - this allows you to engage in a more astute way, and generally just have a bit of fun. It doesn't really happen here, mostly due to the drama and factions in our locality


I hope everything works out for the community here, but I honestly just don't see it being possible. It seems...toxic. Any attempts that have been made are marred by sour people like me, whom believe in their heart of hearts that Boards.ie airsoft has had its day. I would love to be wrong, but initiatives like this are a dime a dozen, and unfortunately it needs a whole pile of near-instant changes (combined with actual work) for meaningful changes to occur. You can merge the boards, get rid of the mods/admins/authority, allow copyright content to be posted (farce of the news thread), but what will that achieve? As Doc said, it's not the forum/software that's the problem...it's us. We are the community here, and well, that sort of says it all, doesn't it?

sharpy2010

Wow inari

That was some post, truth be told you covered everything there, i don't think there I a single poster who can't relate to that in some way at all.

So, is it a case it all dies, then where do people go?
Private groups on Facebook?
How do people get invited into these if their new to Airsoft?
All that does it create bigger cliques that already exist and an even bigger divide between people that could be the detriment of Airsoft in Ireland!

That may be a bit extreme but if we all just say quits to it then that would eventually happen.

Thats not aimed at you Inari but at all of us as a whole

Gatling

Damn you inari stop making almighty sense :-)

Steve

All I can say is that boards/airsoft will persist and will be around long after fad forums rise and fall.

DeV laid a good foundation for this board and it's standing the test. Airsofters, new and old, will always be welcome here and will always be treated with respect.

sharpy2010 wrote:

All that does it create bigger cliques that already exist and an even bigger divide between people that could be the detriment of Airsoft in Ireland!

Sadly, this is true. It is one of the core principles of what not to allow on boards.

sharpy2010

Steve wrote: »

All I can say is that boards/airsoft will persist and will be around long after fad forums rise and fall.

DeV laid a good foundation for this board and it's standing the test. Airsofters, new and old, will always be welcome here and will always be treated with respect.



Sadly, this is true. It is one of the core principles of what not to allow on boards.

Ya as I stated earlier I've seen 3 generations of airsofters through here and it won't be the last

Inari

Everywhere operates on cycles - old heads leave, new ones come in and take their place until they too leave. The issue here is boards.ie itself...the old heads haven't left. They fester, and linger...only coming in on controversial topics, or posting infrequently weighing in with their superior reputation points. Since boards.ie encompasses more than just airsoft, and many users are involved in different aspects, it's easier to just check-in without posting. Then suddenly an interesting topic that may have taken off gets infected with the toxicity of wounded-egos from days of yore.

All you need to do is look at the IAA threads and you'll see posts from people who 1) gave up airsoft long ago, yet return to discuss the NGB, 2) people who haven't been posting in months, or even years, suddenly return to stick an oar in.

How can somewhere flourish where people who are viewed as key members, or at least well-respected, think of the place (and the people) as a venerable cesspit? The answer is that it can't - people need to move on, and in effect there needs to be a purge. The actual active skirmish community has underwent many changes, and for whatever reasons they are not bothered with boards. People are spending more time on Facebook, discussing bits and pieces there...so that obviously contributes to the demise, but it is not entirely the case. The big elephant in the room is that there isn't much to save at the moment, because there is nothing wrong with the forum itself. There are no bugs preventing us from posting, and apart from one or two annoying rules, there are no reasons for people not to engage - all of the factors influencing the posting culture here are self-inflicted.

In other words we did this, with all of the in-fighting, cliques and ridicule that went on over the years, it finally caught up. People have an alternative - airsofter.ie, Facebook, ArniesAirsoft, AirsoftIreland, AirsoftMechanics etc. There are other better outlets for people to dip their toes into, without dealing with the legacy and baggage of this particular forum. People saw the forum as a joke because you were either with one side, or another. If you disagreed with one person on a technical point, you had 5 or 6 other people jumping down your throat getting personal, and over what? The perception of ulterior motives.

So although this forum has been here for a long time, and probably will remain, I ask...what's the point of mere survival? A light that burns twice as bright only burns half as long, but boy howdy what a light?! Similarly a dim-witted almost useless light will last half-way to forever, but what's the point if it's good-for-nothing? There should be a greater goal than survival - survival implies failure to flourish, and settles for being around the longest. Quality will always trump quantity (in this case duration).

What do you do? You can be Ghandian about it and become the change you wish to see - actively encourage people to use the forum, engage in debates, post up information, create a bit of banter, and attempt to have a more useful forum. Or you can be pragmatic and see it for what it is - a forum set in its ways, and realise you're a part of the problem, and if you see no reason to be there then leave...create a bit more elbow room for others to rise to the forefront, and purge the bad-eggs.

I've never been much like Ghandi, hence the more pragmatic approach.

YbFocus

I wish this area of boards had the banter of the motors forum I frequent, it's so full of life and I wish it could be the same for here but there's just not the numbers I guess

Inari they are some great posts. Very truthful and knowledgeable, I'm not around long enough to know what seems to have gone on in the past but it sounds like a few rifts have damaged here.

Inari

YbFocus wrote: »

I'm not around long enough to know what seems to have gone on in the past but it sounds like a few rifts have damaged here.

Just wait, they'll rear their ugly heads again, and again, and again

Realistically they're all meaningless trifles. Nobody actually cares anymore, but people just like having a moan. Unfortunately that causes bad feelings around these parts as opposed to friendly days that were once here.

The community has been damaged, and I think it's a case of nuking the hell out of the damaged parts from orbit...only way to be sure!

YbFocus

Inari wrote: »

Just wait, they'll rear their ugly heads again, and again, and again

Realistically they're all meaningless trifles. Nobody actually cares anymore, but people just like having a moan. Unfortunately that causes bad feelings around these parts as opposed to friendly days that were once here.

The community has been damaged, and I think it's a case of nuking the hell out of the damaged parts from orbit...only way to be sure!

I'm only here about a year now and never noticed any goings on at all. But it sure was far busier back then.
I can tell by some of the threads that this place really had its Hay day and was huge one time, sadly facebook seems to be the place to be now, somewhere that I hate.
I'd only love to see this place come back to its former self. Maybe it's not too be!

Southern Dandy

I knew this thread was missing something.......Inari's giant posts of wisdom .

You are defo right that this place works in cycles, here is to hoping it is due for a busy spell.

I still think a spring clean is overdue.......

Gatling

Basically all the crap on this forum was caused by a few individual's ,and most of it started off this forum too ,most of the issues just happened to spread to here,
This forum started going downhill when the sudden sack the mods threads started popping up in the feedback section of boards, 3 mods in quick succession were basically attacked for want of a better word ,
Then we have the other mod issue ,
Slowly but surely the forum was divided as inari touched on ,posters were been jumped for not agreeing with one or more poster's and so on, it spread off boards to sites ,retailers too and so the community fragmented, you were either pro one site ,one retailer or another ,
I used to love the Airsoft 24/7 off topic thread ( quite literally it was proper 24/7 airsoft and it was supposed to be off topic but yeah we talked and discussed airsoft all hours day and night ,
Again suddenly tags of tinfoil hat's and so on started creeping in eventually it was all sly digs and veiled attacks,
Personally I don't use other forums for airsoft and I never will leopards don't change there spots even if they do change forums ,
Call me a weirdo or what ever but this forum is my home I lived and breathed this little corner of boards.ie from the first 6 months of it's inception and chances are when my 2 kids start playing in 10/11 years time I'll hopefully get to post a thread about it ,

It seriously pisses me off when people put this forum down and blame one reason or another ,
But if your not willing to post for what ever reason ,if your told not to ,or told stay away chances are there's a reason your asked not too,
There not trying to protect you ,you'll eventually figure it out,
If you want to take out, please put in too

Steve

Inari wrote: »

Just wait, they'll rear their ugly heads again, and again, and again

In fairness, they won't. Most are gone of their own accord, others have been banned. Those that are left are here because they chose to be civil, that's all we (boards) ask.

I don't mean any disrespect to anyone there, people will always come and go on a forum like this. Last years experts will become next years hasbeens and this years newbies will become next years experts.

I really don't get the whole 'it was better when saint *username* was posing here and it's gone to pot since' thing.

Inari

Steve wrote: »

In fairness, they won't. Most are gone of their own accord, others have been banned. Those that are left are here because they chose to be civil, that's all we (boards) ask.

Sorry, but no. You can be civil whilst being passive aggressive, and simultaneously creating an intimidating atmosphere causing the forum to stagnate. People learned how to toe-the-line with regard to posting style; you can get away with saying a lot provided you don't get too personal, and disguise the post as informative. The message and net affect remain the same, though the post remains unedited, and the user remains unbanned.

As I mentioned before; every forum operates on cycles...cycles that you have cited, however it is important to remember that boards.ie is the forum, and airsoft is a sub-forum. Many members that migrate away from the airsoft section remain lurking, as they're active in other sections. So when a post comes up about something that interests them, they get involved...and that's fine...except for the fact that it's normally tactical-handbags at the ready. All you have to do is look at this thread (albeit sans-handbag) and you'll see:
MerryDespot, TheDoc, NakedDex, myself...

None of us have been terribly active as of late, and all of us have the same sort of opinion on Boards. That comes across in our posts, so if we remain here with our old attitudes, then the place is destined to remain toxic. I'm not saying that we have to leave, but rather that the dog has had its day...we need to let bygones be bygones, and shed our opinions for the place to flourish. Regrettably, shedding opinions is not exactly possible...and so, while we remain, you will see those opinions come through.

Steve wrote:

I really don't get the whole 'it was better when saint *username* was posing here and it's gone to pot since' thing.

Nostalgia. It's difficult not to understand it. People always think the grass is greener.

The fact of the matter is that the forum is not as active now as it was, for whatever reason. Many people have moved on, and others have joined (as you've pointed out) and yet activity has still dwindled. That is the point. Now as to the debate for why...that is down to us, the users. There is a lot of bad blood floating around, and people are all too eager to make others aware of these negative thoughts (again, just wait for people to discuss certain retailers, sites, or heaven forbid the IAA...). In small doses that doesn't matter, and in the short term it creates a boost - everyone needs a little controversy.

The negative effects are in the long term - people get fed up with rampant drama, and thus an atmosphere of intimidation sets in...people feel that they shouldn't post things unless they know what's going on. All you have to do is look at the amount of posts where people reply "Jesus, not this again" or "Use the bloody search bar" etc. These topics are normally relating to personal imports, power limits, basic legalities, and upgrades.

My posts in this thread are coming across as very negative, but believe me I'm not against this place as a whole. I would love to see it flourish (not survive...I couldn't care less if this place existed long after all the others unless it's content is decent), but that road is long and rocky - the dead weight needs to be cast aside, and a genuine positive atmosphere needs to be created i.e. none of the phony "Airsoft is the winner" and "we're all friends" BS...just a good atmosphere where proper discussion is rewarded by engaging replies. If people make the effort to reply to most threads (provided they have something to add), then it appears less of a clique/club, and more will get involved...particularly in subjects that interest them, instead of waiting for "more experienced members" etc.

Steve

Inari wrote: »

Sorry, but no. You can be civil whilst being passive aggressive, and simultaneously creating an intimidating atmosphere causing the forum to stagnate.

Isn't that the mods job to identify and control?
Its not easy to balance sanctioning knowledgeable contributors because they think they can poke fun at newer members. The net benefit to the forum is a grey area and those that have to make that call will never please everyone.

None of us have been terribly active as of late, and all of us have the same sort of opinion on Boards. That comes across in our posts, so if we remain here with our old attitudes, then the place is destined to remain toxic. I'm not saying that we have to leave, but rather that the dog has had its day...

Emphasis mine there.
I take issue with the fact that you are including yourself in an perceived 'elite' group of old hands who know everything and are better than everyone else here.
Newsflash, you're not.
You are what you contribute to this fourm and if your contributions are conditional that people pay homage to your 'greatness' then, with respect, fcuk off somewhere else and do it. I'm not directing that at you personally Inari, I'm directing it at anyone or any group who thinks they are somehow above the minions here and don't tolerate our 'ignorance'.

Nostalgia. It's difficult not to understand it. People always think the grass is greener.

The fact of the matter is that the forum is not as active now as it was, for whatever reason. Many people have moved on, and others have joined (as you've pointed out) and yet activity has still dwindled. That is the point. Now as to the debate for why...that is down to us, the users. There is a lot of bad blood floating around, and people are all too eager to make others aware of these negative thoughts (again, just wait for people to discuss certain retailers, sites, or heaven forbid the IAA...). In small doses that doesn't matter, and in the short term it creates a boost - everyone needs a little controversy.

The negative effects are in the long term - people get fed up with rampant drama, and thus an atmosphere of intimidation sets in...people feel that they shouldn't post things unless they know what's going on. All you have to do is look at the amount of posts where people reply "Jesus, not this again" or "Use the bloody search bar" etc. These topics are normally relating to personal imports, power limits, basic legalities, and upgrades.

OK, read back on the thread. Apart from one or two people, the 'bad blood' as you put it is mostly a thing of the past. It's history, forgotten, consigned to the archives. The forum has moved on, those that didn't get their way are still posting on their own little forums and still badmouthing us here because they didn't get their way. Nobody cares anymore.

My posts in this thread are coming across as very negative, but believe me I'm not against this place as a whole. I would love to see it flourish (not survive...I couldn't care less if this place existed long after all the others unless it's content is decent), but that road is long and rocky - the dead weight needs to be cast aside, and a genuine positive atmosphere needs to be created i.e. none of the phony "Airsoft is the winner" and "we're all friends" BS...just a good atmosphere where proper discussion is rewarded by engaging replies. If people make the effort to reply to most threads (provided they have something to add), then it appears less of a clique/club, and more will get involved...particularly in subjects that interest them, instead of waiting for "more experienced members" etc.

Some would say negative, I would say truthful and I respect that. As DeV once said, 'however much I disagree with your point of view, I will respect your right to have it'
Yes it's quieter here, yes there is less controversy, yes there is no more cliqueism... is that a bad thing overall? time will tell.

Sorry to have a go at you there, I don't mean any disrespect but be it yourself or any of the 'old school' heads posting what you posted then you'll get the same reply.

We've moved on, so can you.

Inari

Steve wrote: »

Emphasis mine there.
I take issue with the fact that you are including yourself in an perceived 'elite' group of old hands who know everything and are better than everyone else here.
Newsflash, you're not.
You are what you contribute to this fourm and if your contributions are conditional that people pay homage to your 'greatness' then, with respect, fcuk off somewhere else and do it. I'm not directing that at you personally Inari, I'm directing it at anyone or any group who thinks they are somehow above the minions here and don't tolerate our 'ignorance'.

Wow. First of all, where did the perception of elite come from? I certainly didn't include it. You have inferred something from a list of names, of older (now inactive) users, that I posted to prove a point that in general day to day, we (because I'm an inactive user) post very little, and yet we still get involved in random topics such as this...the prime example.

I appreciate that you aren't trying to have a go, but here's the thing - you jumped to a conclusion that I was discussing members based on merit, out of thin air. You perceived a clique to exist, and you responded thusly. This is exactly the type of behaviour I was talking about. Your response was motivated by something you inferred, and posted due to you 'taking exception'. Not going to lie, I was taken aback by it. The last thing I expected to read was

if your contributions are conditional that people pay homage to your 'greatness' then, with respect, fcuk off somewhere else

Although you specified it was not necessarily directed at me, they did derive from a post I made, and thus still feels like it's levelled squarely at myself.

With that in mind, some clarification:
I do not include myself in a group of elite old hand posters. I do include myself in a list of posters that are not active, which is exactly what I said. All I inferred in my previous post was that we, the people I specifically mentioned by name (so that there would no no confusion, even though I now have to clarify...), are not active on the main forum, and yet...here we are posting in a random thread because it 'caught our eye'. That's it, that's all I was saying. It follows on from previous points I've made about posters not moving on, and effectively passing it on to the newer folk. And now we are engaged in a little disagreement based on our opinions, even though I'm no longer an active member in this community - see what I mean? My opinions do not reflect others, and are simply my own feelings...yet for some austere reason when I saw this thread, I felt the need to get involved, just as people do on both sides of the IAA crap, or with other stuff between sites etc.

I include myself as part of the problem, as I've stated in pretty much every post I've made. I'm not hiding that, and do believe it to be true.

Steve wrote:

Isn't that the mods job to identify and control?
Its not easy to balance sanctioning knowledgeable contributors because they think they can poke fun at newer members. The net benefit to the forum is a grey area and those that have to make that call will never please everyone.

I thought the moderators job was simply to keep the rules, and propagate discussion by removing deterrents such as trolls. In the case of people cleverly hiding their jabs, it's not exactly something the mods can do anything about - if they ban, they're too harsh, if they warn it confirms peoples suspicions that there was something more to the post, further creating the vibe that there is bad blood. All that can be done is self policing, where everyone else universally comes together and says "stop being a derogatory term for male genitalia, if you please."

Steve wrote:

Sorry to have a go at you there, I don't mean any disrespect but be it yourself or any of the 'old school' heads posting what you posted then you'll get the same reply.

No apology necessary, and though I appreciate that the comments you made were not essentially aimed at myself, the perception is there and that speaks volumes. I will say that I am surprised...wasn't aware that people had that opinion

Steve

Inari wrote: »

I do include myself in a list of posters that are not active, which is exactly what I said.

You mean this bunch of inactive posters?

http://forum.airsofter.ie/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=701&sid=405200b788d859e958178adc02339cf8


(Apologies to airsofter.ie if I've just overloaded their servers with referral links)

Steve

Inari wrote: »

...wasn't aware that people had that opinion

They don't. As I said, you are what you contribute here, the forum has moved on from the legacy bull****.

Captain Chaos

Steve wrote: »

, the forum has moved on from the legacy bull****.

It's died a massive death in past 3 years in fairness and moved on into digital oblivion. It's like trying to live in North Korea tbh.

Steve

Captain Chaos wrote: »

It's died a massive death in past 3 years in fairness and moved on into digital oblivion. It's like trying to live in North Korea tbh.

It's quieter, less trolls, but it didn't die, it's still here. You just posted something QED.

Would you care to expand on the North Korea comparison?

Lemming

It's a pity that this thread (hey, see what I did there? ... I posted something) has taken a turn south into negative-land. It's easy to stand on the sidelines and tell the world what's wrong with it. It's a lot harder (and more rewarding) to come up with positive solutions. So on that note; can we say "onwards & upwards" instead of wallowing in myopic nostalgia?

Steve posted a very insightful comment earlier - and never a truer word was written about any forum on the internet ever, anywhere.

Steve wrote: »

You are what you contribute.

So, we can all either moan & mope. And contribute. Or, we can talk about airsoft. And contribute. I can't speak for anyone else, but fvck does the first option suck ass. Option two for me bob please.

TheDoc

Steve wrote: »

You mean this bunch of inactive posters?

Steve your actually correct in a lot of stuff your saying, but your getting WAY to defensive over it.

In the simplest of lines, "get over it" , your right. And I think we all have. Everyone is over it, nobody cares, people have moved on as you said. It's all fine.

But it is worth remembering why people have moved on. This forum was at one point the pinnacle for Irish airsoft. If you wanted to know anything, ask anything, find out everything, you came here. It was the heartbeat of the community, regardless of what people say, it was where everything stemmed from.

Naturally enough as it was the essential shopping window for irish airsoft, there was those that took more of a defensive posture over what went on etc. I was one of those for a large time.

I had a number of issues with moderation in the past, as Gatling eluded too. We won't dig it all up, but there was alot of rubbish and bull****. As someone who moderated a forum that in it's day got more daily hits in one subforum then boards combined in it's entirety, I'd some decent experience in moderation, and I just didn't like what was going on.

Moderation was a major factor in alot of people getting disgruntled and leave. And by the way, before people assume it was people like me and a merry band of rejects, it wasn't. I had people I'd never met in my life talk to me onsites, or maybe during a sale through adverts, agreeing with my viewpoints, or them debating against it, and there was always good discussions and everyone wanted to see boards flourish. Because we cared.

With all due respect Steve, it wasn't trolling, it wasn't us being around to cause a mess or be purposefully troublesome. We actually cared. And in fairness, alot of it happened before you came on the scene, as I don't expect you to fully to be aware of past dealings, but unfortunately it's not all stuff that can be put in the past.

Inari was relatively on the money when he described people like him and me, I stumble in here on a boring occasion during work or in the evening, to see what's going down, have a look on the adverts subforum. I've been around the web long enough, and been deep enough in communities that ferment from forums to know how it works. You just eventually outgrow the content of the place you were going all the time, you find a new platform, or you have a blowout that simply pushes you elsewhere.

I've personally never felt the need to leave or quiet down due to any backlashes or threats etc. I've always been passionate about airsoft, but I've been more passionate about being a beacon for the truth and calling a spade a spade. Unfortunately there are alot of snakes in airsoft, alot of troublemakers, and for easily six months I found the only reason I was posting was to counteract someone else posting rubbish. That's not what I wanted to be doing, so inevitably my interest just wained and I figured if people want to buy into the muck, then so be it.

Inari has hit the nail on the head with a post two or three back. He doesn't particularly hang around here, neither do I, but a post like this crops up and we just "have" to get involved.

And if we step back and look why, it's not because we have to be heard, it's not because we need to gain some form of gratification and glorification of our posting, it's really, a longing and wishful hope that this forum could return to it's hayday. Which unfortunately it won't. But that is fine in it's own right. It's not a bad thing. There is nothing wrong with it.

When you look at what came out of the older generation, it was a WORLD of knowledge and information that all pretty much came from discussion here. It was perceptions and opinions that all formed from talking about them here. Now while the population is segmented across various platforms and the likes, there is every chance and probability that here can flourish again.

I, like probably everyone else, get the little sly dig at airsofter.ie, which is fine. I'm sure it is being viewed as a partition or separatist movement from boards.ie Because people feel the need to put a label on something, to create some sort of sinister meaning or motive. **** I remember being provisional IAA When the simple fact of the matter was I just though the committee at the time was being trash. There was rumours I was part of a split away group liasing with the DOJ haha

The creation and use of airsofter.ie is no different from why people are on sub/private groups on Facebook, or using any other platform, although at it's creation there was just a push. Dave got permabanned, and that was it. He wanted a place to talk to the guys, and just said why don't I setup a forum, and away he went and did. At the time, and obviously festering before then was a deep feeling of annoyance at the way certain things worked here. A thread would be started about X and maybe at parts there would be some off-topic talk, and a thread would close, locked, deleted, infractions and bans. Instead of just monitoring, seeing what happens, gentle nudge back if it gets ridiculous. I remember being banned for slagging one of my mates. Obviously the moderator didn't know we were good friends, but that was sort of the problem and point. We were operating on a platform that was a community base, everyone knew everyone, but were receiving input and moderation disruptively and destructively.

Obviously alot of people had issues with moderators etc not actually playing airsoft, it wasn't a major thing for me, obviously it would have been a plus but it was the style that most annoyed me. Airsofter just provided the supply to what was a growing demand. An airsoft centric community. There was, and is, leeway and the fundamental principle is that the users direct the content and discussion, not the moderation staff. Sure it's not blitzing the world alight with numbers etc. but that doesn't matter. It's quality content, and it's user driven. Somewhere along the line this forum, and boards to a whole, lost sight of what made it popular. No one here can fix that, it's a direction the organisation has gone that just simply has put it down a path that won't come back again.

Yes it's quieter here, yes there is less controversy, yes there is no more cliqueism... is that a bad thing overall? time will tell.

A really potent sentence from one of your posts that is really interesting. I think for two of those factors, having them gone is a good thing.

The controversy was never something I genuinely enjoyed, although frequently took part in. The worry being that certain elements of the community, individuals, or organisations would simply spout rubbish, lies or tall tales and that needed to be challenged. When this was the first stop for new players, I felt it was important there was clear and detailed, honest information, not allowed of absolute rubbish. When you think through all the controvasies, the IAA, IASRA, Phone in shows, Newspaper articles, Hot guns, rampant cheating etc. everyone came out of them with labels, with tags. Allegiances formed not out of agreement, but matching principles. There are guys here who I have full on had arguements with, completely disagreed with in the past or still do, but I'd never actually have a problem with them in person, and that is where some people simply lost the line and forgot, that it was rowing with opinions, not personal people.

I used to go toe to toe with Firekitten, and by extension Lemming nearly every day. Absolute killings, I think there was even some mega feedback thread about the whole ordeal. First time we met in person there was a shake of the hands, chit chat and played alongside each other. I don't harbour grudges. I'd have fallings out with Puding and disagreements ( we had massive impasses on discussions between competitive airsoft etc) yet over the summer we were on opposing sides for the countries largest Milsim, worked together to ensure we could provide a good scenario for the players, created some scenarios together, had the chats and banter etc.

The clicks, meh, I guess people would say I'm part of one. It was really just one opinion against another. Obviously it would be the same people with the same opinions, hence why those people frequently played together. They were friends, stemming from similar outlooks and viewpoints on the game itself. I frequently disagreed with people like Gerrowadat, Masada, Shiva, Fayer etc on a number of things, a number of their thoughts. But the viewpoint was always it was a click trying to take over or some rubbish. Another rumour was targetted bullying etc., which was a crock of horse****.

Being quieter, well that's not really a problem persay. People might be more intune with using the search function, maybe its just a relatively quiet period, who knows. A quieter forum isn't a bad thing, it's just a slowdown in discussion and content. Least not forgetting there was busy periods here, but you wouldn't class it as a good thing. Every second thread was sniper threads, backups for sniper threads, and rate my sniper and backup threads

At the end of the day if your around enough forums you know they are their own beings and entities. Inari is right, people will come and go, unless the main arc for the forum ( i.e the purpose of the community) disappears, the likelihood is it will continue forward. It will have different forums and shapes, but will carry on. The old guys will say how it's **** and harp for the old days, but it will go on, the new guys will come along and do whatever, it will carry on.

CpcRc

Lemming wrote: »

Or, we can talk about airsoft.

Sooo, Tokyo marui have a gas shotgun that can fire 3 or 6 BBs at a time and the US got an export only one made of metal. Also a&k ptw seems to be getting pretty popular with their m4 selling out incredibly fast. One day a store sold out their stock in 4 hours. And a&k are releasing a new model in the future, hopefully in spring 2014. I am really excited about as it will be a market first. I can't tell ye because I really want one for myself so less competition at the till it's nothing personal, it's just airsoft . And there is a tan version of the kiss vector.

TheDoc

Lemming wrote: »

Steve posted a very insightful comment earlier - and never a truer word was written about any forum on the internet ever, anywhere.


So, we can all either moan & mope. And contribute. Or, we can talk about airsoft. And contribute. I can't speak for anyone else, but fvck does the first option suck ass. Option two for me bob please.

A short post after my novel. He is dead right, and everyone is well aware of how a forum operates, how user driven content works. But the point is it's under driven content.

What needs to be remembered is when your speaking to the likes of Inari, me, maybe some others, is that there was serious problems with generating any contribution because of interpretations of charter, and it eventually caused many to just give up.

There would be an excellent thread taking place, that drifts a bit of topic, and instead of it being directed back in, or just let go and monitored to see where it went, it would be locked or closed. And least to remember certain individuals got this harsher then others.

And added to the point certain topics or debates were considered to hot to discuss, and locked down or deleted before anything ever took place.

Just saying, it's great to take that view and it's the correct one, but it would have helped if it was allowed to flourish.

As said before, it's a legacy item. I can clearly see from reading around the pages in the last while, there isn't alot of moderation, things are running fairly smoother, and that is great. But when we are talking about "where is everyone" and "why did chunks of people leave" we need to be mature and intelligent enough to discuss some of the contributing factors, which were that people were being inhibited or disenfranchised from contributing anything with the thought process of "whats the point"

Lemming

TheDoc wrote: »

As said before, it's a legacy item. I can clearly see from reading around the pages in the last while, there isn't alot of moderation, things are running fairly smoother, and that is great. But when we are talking about "where is everyone" and "why did chunks of people leave" we need to be mature and intelligent enough to discuss some of the contributing factors, which were that people were being inhibited or disenfranchised from contributing anything with the thought process of "whats the point"

I don't particularly disagree with any point you're raised Doc, and I would agree that the manner in which a lot of threads got dealt with was far from perfect. Speaking as a former mod (albeit for adverts), threads should only be locked as either a last resort or in the thankfully uncommon likelihood a thread is about to jump from heated to Nuclear war because Trolly McTroll and Troll King have just met ...

And yes, again you're right; there does need to be a nod given to the reasons why when discussing a particular topic (in this case where is everyone). But at the end of the day - and this was my point in my earlier post - we either choose to wallow in those points and just go round in never-ending circles of negativity, or we try to move forward and upwards by remembering the "why" whilst avoiding the "how". It's the same mindset that keeps choosing to bring up the IAA and I meant what I wrote at the end of the "what's wrong with ..." thread in that the community really needs to let it go or there will never be reconcilliation never mind any notions of peace. All aggreived parties can be perfectly free to ignore each other, or try and extend the hand to one another again and generally just get on with things, but all the bad blood really needs to just be let go.

Lemming

On a less serious note following on from discussion with Doc

CpcRc wrote: »

And there is a tan version of the kiss vector.

I'm sorry, but just ... no. I feel the need to barf

CpcRc

Lemming wrote: »

I'm sorry, but just ... no. I feel the need to barf

Let me help you by showing you the real thing so you don't need to imagine :P

Around the 1 minute mark:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akVRrw9szTY

Steve

Lads, thanks for the honest replies, I'd just like to clarify some things here:

Inari wrote: »

...long post...

Although you specified it was not necessarily directed at me, they did derive from a post I made, and thus still feels like it's levelled squarely at myself.

....

No apology necessary, and though I appreciate that the comments you made were not essentially aimed at myself, the perception is there and that speaks volumes. I will say that I am surprised...wasn't aware that people had that opinion

I meant what I said, it was not directed at you personally, it was directed at a group of posters collectively. It's history now so hopefully we can move on.

Doc, I don't disagree with the majority of your post there, if fact it's a pretty accurate account of what went on.

Couple of things:

TheDoc wrote: »

Steve your actually correct in a lot of stuff your saying, but your getting WAY to defensive over it.

Yeah, I'll give you that, it's hard not to be though. I'm guess I was expecting this to break out into an IAA battering and a 'who stole my inflatable wheelbarrow' thread... old habits (mine) die hard

I, like probably everyone else, get the little sly dig at airsofter.ie

It wasn't a dig and I have absolutely no problem with airsofter.ie. If fact, as Dave said, stuff can be discussed there that falls outside the boards guidelines that we're tied to here. If it gets busier there then I wish him well with that but I fear it'll change when the solicitors letters and defamation actions start arriving.

I posted the link purely to highlight the opinions that the 'ex-posters' have of the users and mods, "the community", that still exists here.

That said, I'll reiterate that all are still welcome here as long as they can use the forum within the boards framework and posting guidelines.