Cycle lane potential death traps

dermabrasion

Maybe this has done before...but I'm pretty sure that cyclists know certain cycle lanes which are potential death-traps due to poor design.

The one that sparked this post is on the N11 at Fosters avenue: The bike lane separates-left from the N11 at The Rise and goes behind a sheltered bus stop for about 40 meters. It rejoins the road just at the traffic lights at Fosters where there is a filter light to make a left turn.
I saw a cyclist coming down the hill at a fair clip following the cycle lane. He disappears behind the bus stop and looks to continue thru the lights at Fosters. A HGV is waiting to make a left turn, gets a green light and starts to move off just as the cyclist reaches the lights.
The cyclist just missed death by millimetres. The HGV probably had no idea he was even there. I go cold just thinking about this. It was if it was in slow motion.

Zyzz

dermabrasion wrote: »

Maybe this has done before...but I'm pretty sure that cyclists know certain cycle lanes which are potential death-traps due to poor design.

The one that sparked this post is on the N11 at Fosters avenue: The bike lane separates-left from the N11 at The Rise and goes behind a sheltered bus stop for about 40 meters. It rejoins the road just at the traffic lights at Fosters where there is a filter light to make a left turn.
I saw a cyclist coming down the hill at a fair clip following the cycle lane. He disappears behind the bus stop and looks to continue thru the lights at Fosters. A HGV is waiting to make a left turn, gets a green light and starts to move off just as the cyclist reaches the lights.
The cyclist just missed death by millimetres. The HGV probably had no idea he was even there. I go cold just thinking about this. It was if it was in slow motion.

Maybe once or twice..

(Any time I cycle on that stretch its a near miss with cars turning left. Incredibly stupid design)

Plasid

Never use the N11 disaster zone, bad, dangerous design from day one. Use the nice and wide, very visible, shared bus/bike lane instead... I couldn't believe they put in even more stupid lanes when I first saw this new layout.

Skrynesaver

Bike lane heading North down the Tolka Valley on the North Road, The cycle path is on the footpath until you reach a left turn for the Cappagh/Ratoath road when you merge with traffic turning left, to be honest I've only used it once and while I wasn't hit I chalked it down as a pre-meditated assault and I've avoided it since.

It's been said before, but most cycle lanes seem to be either quota filling exercises where the road is already plenty wide enough to share or else attempts to get cyclists out of the way of "real traffic" without thought as to the utility of the resulting cycling infrastructure.

droidus

Skrynesaver wrote: »

Bike lane heading North down the Tolka Valley on the North Road, The cycle path is on the footpath until you reach a left turn for the Cappagh/Ratoath road when you merge with traffic turning left, to be honest I've only used it once and while I wasn't hit I chalked it down as a pre-meditated assault and I've avoided it since.

It's been said before, but most cycle lanes seem to be either quota filling exercises where the road is already plenty wide enough to share or else attempts to get cyclists out of the way of "real traffic" without thought as to the utility of the resulting cycling infrastructure.

Tell me about it. I've had a number of run ins with cars and buses there. The stretch just before has a couple of petrol stations and you need to be wary of left hooks as people pull in. If you stay on the road you get harassed by buses. Stay on the path and you're taking your life into your hands re entering traffic. Its just appallingly badly designed.

After a couple of years of braving the traffic there I now simply take a longer route down towards mobhi rd/botanic ave instead. Adds about a kilometre to the journey but it feels much safer.

AltAccount

dermabrasion wrote: »

I saw a cyclist coming down the hill at a fair clip following the cycle lane. He disappears behind the bus stop and looks to continue thru the lights at Fosters. A HGV is waiting to make a left turn, gets a green light and starts to move off just as the cyclist reaches the lights.
The cyclist just missed death by millimetres. The HGV probably had no idea he was even there. I go cold just thinking about this. It was if it was in slow motion.

I hate the lanes there and deliberately avoid that road where possible, but I'd think the cyclist shares a fair amount of blame here.

Going up the inside of a HGV should be done very gingerly, if at all. If he's timed it so that the HGV is actually moving and turning (it takes a while) before he's cleared the HGV, then he's gotten it wrong.

reallyunique

It's true, you can always blame the cyclist. Should have anticipated, should have waited etc but the real problem is the cycle path shouldn't be there.
I can't think of anywhere there is a car lane going straight to the left of a car lane going straight. That would be just daft.

Now I like the idea of cycle infrastructure. I cycled the N11 yesterday and thought the cycle lanes were very handy in the places where they worked, they just don't work at intersections which is a shame as they are the most dangerous bit of any road. Build more cycle infrastructure but do it properly.

AltAccount

reallyunique wrote: »

It's true, you can always blame the cyclist. Should have anticipated, should have waited etc but the real problem is the cycle path shouldn't be there.
I can't think of anywhere there is a car lane going straight to the left of a car lane going straight. That would be just daft.

Now I like the idea of cycle infrastructure. I cycled the N11 yesterday and thought the cycle lanes were very handy in the places where they worked, they just don't work at intersections which is a shame as they are the most dangerous bit of any road. Build more cycle infrastructure but do it properly.

Absolutely, the facilities should be better, but you can't absolve the cyclist of responsibility just because he has a lane.

I was on the M50 on Monday. I caught up with a high-sided B&Q articulated lorry that was weaving fairly badly in a strong cross wind.
I stayed in my overtaking lane, eased off and waited until I had a clear run past him while he was stable before putting the boot down.

Yes I had a lane, yes he shouldn't be crossing into it, yes I'd be in the right, but he'd have killed me if it went wrong...


Same in this example (as it's described). If the cyclist came within "millimeters" of dying just because there's a lane there, then he's got some questions to answer.

If this is the general standard of cycling (sweeping generalisation) then I'd rather see the money spent on cycle-educating a few classes of local schoolchildren rather than repainting the cycling lanes on that junction.



However, whoever designs these facilities needs a good slap in the chops IMHO, they're unprofessional and can't do their job properly. It's not acceptable.

Johnny Jukebox

Same guys who design the water facilities...

macadam

I nearly clipped a female turning onto fosters ave last Wednesday it's totally crazy the green filter light gives you the right to turn but there's no light to halt the cycle lane , I just seem her at the last second, I also had a trailer attached, could have being frightening
Be extra careful out there folks

Beasty

dermabrasion wrote: »

Maybe this has done before...but I'm pretty sure that cyclists know certain cycle lanes which are potential death-traps due to poor design.

This is probably the nearest we have to a definitive thread on the subject, but I'm guessing a lot of it will be out of date now (and that some "facilities" may well have deteriorated further in the meantime)

monument

macadam wrote: »

I nearly clipped a female turning onto fosters ave last Wednesday it's totally crazy the green filter light gives you the right to turn but there's no light to halt the cycle lane , I just seem her at the last second, I also had a trailer attached, could have being frightening
Be extra careful out there folks

A green light does not give anybody the right of way, but a flashing orange light might make it clearer that motorists are supposed to yield.

dermabrasion wrote: »

Maybe this has done before...but I'm pretty sure that cyclists know certain cycle lanes which are potential death-traps due to poor design.

The one that sparked this post is on the N11 at Fosters avenue: The bike lane separates-left from the N11 at The Rise and goes behind a sheltered bus stop for about 40 meters. It rejoins the road just at the traffic lights at Fosters where there is a filter light to make a left turn.
I saw a cyclist coming down the hill at a fair clip following the cycle lane. He disappears behind the bus stop and looks to continue thru the lights at Fosters. A HGV is waiting to make a left turn, gets a green light and starts to move off just as the cyclist reaches the lights.
The cyclist just missed death by millimetres. The HGV probably had no idea he was even there. I go cold just thinking about this. It was if it was in slow motion.

I'm not saying the design is perfection or anything but lines of sight are established 40-50 meters before the turn.

AltAccount

monument wrote: »

A green light does not give anybody the right of way, but a flashing orange light might make it clearer that motorists are supposed to yield.

But surely that's not the right way to do it either. The law now says it's illegal for a cyclist to undertake a vehicle that is indicating to turn left or can reasonably be expected to turn left (or whatever the wording is).

If a car's sitting in the left turning lane and there's a likelihood that the light might turn green, you can reasonably expect them to turn left, so in theory they have right of way by virtue of the fact that it's illegal for you to undertake.

Skrynesaver

AltAccount wrote: »

But surely that's not the right way to do it either. The law now says it's illegal for a cyclist to undertake a vehicle that is indicating to turn left or can reasonably be expected to turn left (or whatever the wording is).

If a car's sitting in the left turning lane and there's a likelihood that the light might turn green, you can reasonably expect them to turn left, so in theory they have right of way by virtue of the fact that it's illegal for you to undertake.

Which is why you should be in the left hand side of the straight ahead lane, but the layout of the cycle path is such that you need to cross a lane of traffic instantly, rather than change into the next lane over / hold your position on the approach to the junction

monument

AltAccount wrote: »

But surely that's not the right way to do it either. The law now says it's illegal for a cyclist to undertake a vehicle that is indicating to turn left or can reasonably be expected to turn left (or whatever the wording is).

If a car's sitting in the left turning lane and there's a likelihood that the light might turn green, you can reasonably expect them to turn left, so in theory they have right of way by virtue of the fact that it's illegal for you to undertake.

The law says what?

You may be confusing the SI covering where there is no cycle track

AltAccount

Maybe I am, I don't have the link just my recollection of reading it. Happy to be incorrect.

coolbeans

Ignore the cycle lane completely and use the bus lane. Problem solved. That's what I used to do at least. I was happy to use the cycle lane after Foster's avenue past UCD but after that it's bus lane and road all the way. They're simply not fit for purpose.

micar

dermabrasion wrote: »

Maybe this has done before...but I'm pretty sure that cyclists know certain cycle lanes which are potential death-traps due to poor design.

The one that sparked this post is on the N11 at Fosters avenue: The bike lane separates-left from the N11 at The Rise and goes behind a sheltered bus stop for about 40 meters. It rejoins the road just at the traffic lights at Fosters where there is a filter light to make a left turn.
I saw a cyclist coming down the hill at a fair clip following the cycle lane. He disappears behind the bus stop and looks to continue thru the lights at Fosters. A HGV is waiting to make a left turn, gets a green light and starts to move off just as the cyclist reaches the lights.
The cyclist just missed death by millimetres. The HGV probably had no idea he was even there. I go cold just thinking about this. It was if it was in slow motion.

I travel through this junction on the way home from work.

I;ve started to keep off the cycle lane here and cycle on the road and on the right hand side of the cars that are turning left.

I started to do this after some near misses with keeping on the cycling lane.

0ph0rce0

Does no one think of just stopping at the n11 road and having a quick look???

That's what i do.

Common sense really

Robertd_07

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

Does no one think of just stopping at the n11 road and having a quick look???

That's what i do.

Common sense really

Why? If you're in the bus lane, and have a green light, why should you have to stop. It's a silly, bordering on dangerous layout. Why should I cede right of way to left turning traffic, putting myself at risk and having to give way to left turning traffic, when I can simply remain on the road and continue in a straight line.

twinges in the hinges

There are lots of people in heaven who had the right of way but didn't look - that's why!

jive

coolbeans wrote: »

Ignore the cycle lane completely and use the bus lane. Problem solved. That's what I used to do at least. I was happy to use the cycle lane after Foster's avenue past UCD but after that it's bus lane and road all the way. They're simply not fit for purpose.

I do the same for 2 reasons, one being outlined in the OP and the other being people waiting for the bus often mosey around on their phone behind the bus stop pacing back and forward not paying attention to anything going on around them. There is a slight bit of elevation (maybe 1-2 inches) from the cycle lane to the actual footpath so if they enter the cycle lane when you are close to them you can't get enough of an angle to mount the path to avoid them so crashing is inevitable unless you can stop in time. Certainly one of the most ridiculous cycle lanes I've come across, definitely one to avoid. I just use the bus lane until the cycle lane re-appears 100 yards later...

eeeee

jive wrote: »

I do the same for 2 reasons, one being outlined in the OP and the other being people waiting for the bus often mosey around on their phone behind the bus stop pacing back and forward not paying attention to anything going on around them. There is a slight bit of elevation (maybe 1-2 inches) from the cycle lane to the actual footpath so if they enter the cycle lane when you are close to them you can't get enough of an angle to mount the path to avoid them so crashing is inevitable unless you can stop in time. Certainly one of the most ridiculous cycle lanes I've come across, definitely one to avoid. I just use the bus lane until the cycle lane re-appears 100 yards later...

Yup I do exactly the same. I'm on that road every day, and get beeped at least 4 times a week for not being in the cycle lane. Worst cycle lane design ever! Even when it goes behind bus stops, people still wander blindly into your path-argh! Then I feel like a dickhead asking them to get out of the way. I avoid the N11 cycle lane from Newtownpark Ave to after Donnybrook and just use bus lane.

noddy69

dermabrasion wrote: »

Maybe this has done before...but I'm pretty sure that cyclists know certain cycle lanes which are potential death-traps due to poor design.

The one that sparked this post is on the N11 at Fosters avenue: The bike lane separates-left from the N11 at The Rise and goes behind a sheltered bus stop for about 40 meters. It rejoins the road just at the traffic lights at Fosters where there is a filter light to make a left turn.
I saw a cyclist coming down the hill at a fair clip following the cycle lane. He disappears behind the bus stop and looks to continue thru the lights at Fosters. A HGV is waiting to make a left turn, gets a green light and starts to move off just as the cyclist reaches the lights.
The cyclist just missed death by millimetres. The HGV probably had no idea he was even there. I go cold just thinking about this. It was if it was in slow motion.

That cycle lane is badly thought out. When you get to Mount Merrion avenue going towards town the bike lane ends and there is a crowded bus stop. Cyclists here dont even slow down they just race through the front of the bus stop. Someone is going to get hurt here. I know that there should be a better lay out but cyclists need to slow down or go into the bus lane for that stretch as its an accident waiting to happen.