Letting your Child(U18) Store/Have a Gun in their Room

thelurcher

Yes but rules to be set(keys of safe given to parent at night)

Sparks wrote: »

In general it sounds like a really really bad idea. I can think of exceptions (like keeping an air rifle without ammo in their room when dry firing if they're actually training heavily) so it's not an absolute rule, but those exceptions would be fairly esoteric and a case-by-case kind of thing. But I guess that's the way with these things...

My parents weren't into shooting but I got my first rifle at 14. Used to keep it in my room. They asked for the magazine so that I wouldn't be able to use it without them being around. In fairness I never messed with it back then but I did go out on my own - single shot was grand.
Just saying for the benifit of any non shooting person reading this - children can be devious. Leave them an intact gun for dry firing and it's so easy for them to keep a few rounds back the next time they go out.

My biggest worry would be parents away and friends over - that's a disaster waiting to happen.

thelurcher

Yes but rules to be set(keys of safe given to parent at night)

Cass wrote: »

Just to sure i'm on the same page. If a child (under 18) owns a gun but their parents don't and they store the firearms in their room, you are asking if anyone would have a problem with this?

Or is it that the firearm is just in the room, not stored in a safe?


I didn't answer the poll as the third option is a non runner. No one, bar the licensee, should have access to the firearms. Ever. Parents or not.

While the above is legally correct parents should think carefully about it before getting into that situation. To put yourself in a position where your child is the only one in your home allowed access to the firearm makes no sense.

I suppose everyone thinks their own little angels will do no wrong but remember what we used to get up to at that age! Way worse **** out there now even in the most rural backwater. You don't want them experimenting with some crap a night your away - and 'playing' with the gun. Just not worth the risk at all IMHO.

GarIT

Yes but rules to be set(keys of safe given to parent at night)

I would question the sanity of any parent that didn't keep the gun in their possession while it was not in use. Does the news not teach us enough about what happens when kids have guns.

Witcher

bravestar wrote: »

That's just being lazy. I have gone to considerable lengths for mine to be concealed completely, at little cost but with a lot of elbow grease and thought.

Each to their own. You're not aware of the layout of my living space so please reserve judgement.

1shot16

yellowlabrador wrote: »

teenagers are too impulsive. the child in question might be really mature and responsible but they might have friends round. Accidents can be avoided. Even as an adult, guns should be kept secure and separate from ammunition.

True dat but i lock the safe and give in the keys when my friends are around. Perfectly legally as one of my parents is licensed on the gun.

PickledLime wrote: »

Why would you keep a firearm full stop? Especially at age 16

I dont even know what to respond to this one lads...

thelurcher wrote: »

My parents weren't into shooting but I got my first rifle at 14. Used to keep it in my room. They asked for the magazine so that I wouldn't be able to use it without them being around. In fairness I never messed with it back then but I did go out on my own - single shot was grand.
Just saying for the benifit of any non shooting person reading this - children can be devious. Leave them an intact gun for dry firing and it's so easy for them to keep a few rounds back the next time they go out.

My biggest worry would be parents away and friends over - that's a disaster waiting to happen.

Yeah but as i said above safe locked keys given in.

GarIT wrote: »

I would question the sanity of any parent that didn't keep the gun in their possession while it was not in use. Does the news not teach us enough about what happens when kids have guns.

You dont heard about 16-18 year olds going on shooting sprees here do ya.

Blay wrote: »

Each to their own. You're not aware of the layout of my living space so please reserve judgement.

Yeah same in my household its the bedroom or the upstairs bathroom not where to put it really.

1shot16

After much though i decided i should move the safe and gun out of my room,I just need to find a place to put it which will prove to be hard.I guess i didnt look at it through others perspectives such as parents and friends,If i was to go over to someones you would feel not right with a gun in their room especially at 16.I dont have a problem but others do.

I dont like the idea of it downstairs and theres no where upstairs other than my room.

A lot of No ways.

aaakev

No way

GarIT wrote: »

I would question the sanity of any parent that didn't keep the gun in their possession while it was not in use. Does the news not teach us enough about what happens when kids have guns.

If one of the parents is not licenced on the gun in question then they would be breaking the law in having posession of the gun while its not in use. You can legally own a gun here at 16.

I suppose the ideal situation would be a parent also gets licenced on the gun and takes responsability for its storage then

1shot16

aaakev wrote: »

If one of the parents is not licenced on the gun in question then they would be breaking the law in having posession of the gun while its not in use. You can legally own a gun here at 16.

I suppose the ideal situation would be a parent also gets licenced on the gun and takes responsability for its storage then

Maybe thats why the super wanted a parent to hold a licensce ... thats my mam btw :pac:

skinnylizzy

Yes but rules to be set(keys of safe given to parent at night)

@ 1shot16: Do you mind if I ask, are we talking about you here? What is your current situation? As in, is the safe currently in a spare room and you want to move it to your room? Is the safe already in your room and your parents want you to move it? Are you just asking out of interest?

You have bare in mind that if the CPO came out and inspected the safe and where it's bolted to the wall, you might be in some kind of violation of the conditions of your license if you move the safe. The CPO might not have approved the safe if it were in the new location in the house from the start.

Sorry for all the questions, I just wanna get where you're coming from.

I plan to get my kids shooting as soon as they turn 14 and get them their own firearms at 16 but they will be stored where I can control the safe keys at all times e.i. they wont have their own safes in their rooms. As I'm already a firearms owner, I couldn't speak from a parent that has never owned a firearms point of view.

One shot on kill

I'm thinking about this.

But the ans don't really suit my way of thinking.

So I haven't voted yet and if I were to vote with the options it would be no way.

Yes but with conditions. Because every situation is different and every u18 had different maturity levels.

No way is very blunt or at least reads that way to me. If no way was the case then it wouldn't be in the house at all because permission wouldn't be given.

And your third option just doesn't cover it for me. It's fairly vague and to much room for argument.

My post prob doesn't really matter but I just can't vote.

1shot16

skinnylizzy wrote: »

@ 1shot16: Do you mind if I ask, are we talking about you here? What is your current situation? As in, is the safe currently in a spare room and you want to move it to your room? Is the safe already in your room and your parents want you to move it? Are you just asking out of interest?

You have bare in mind that if the CPO came out and inspected the safe and where it's bolted to the wall, you might be in some kind of violation of the conditions of your license if you move the safe. The CPO might not have approved the safe if it were in the new location in the house from the start.

Sorry for all the questions, I just wanna get where you're coming from.

I plan to get my kids shooting as soon as they turn 14 and get them their own firearms at 16 but they will be stored where I can control the safe keys at all times e.i. they wont have their own safes in their rooms. As I'm already a firearms owner, I couldn't speak from a parent that has never owned a firearms point of view.

Its in my room and i want to move it out.I might have to move it they dont hate it but would prefer if it was somewhere else!

One shot on kill wrote: »

I'm thinking about this.

But the ans don't really suit my way of thinking.

So I haven't voted yet and if I were to vote with the options it would be no way.

Yes but with conditions. Because every situation is different and every u18 had different maturity levels.

No way is very blunt or at least reads that way to me. If no way was the case then it wouldn't be in the house at all because permission wouldn't be given.

And your third option just doesn't cover it for me. It's fairly vague and to much room for argument.

My post prob doesn't really matter but I just can't vote.

Ill agree with every child having different maturity levels!

Then it would be in the garage?No way just mean kinda very bad idea.The last thing youd want is ur child to have a gun in their room really.

tac foley

I have to admit that I'm totally amazed that anybody should consider making their firearm available for non-licensed people - relatives or not - to fondle/play with/mess about with. Obviously, in Ireland you do things differently, as I'm often reminded, but surely the terms and conditions of firearms ownership state that only the registered licensee should have access to the firearm?

My gun safe keys are kept in a combination key box that is, itself, hidden where it is unlikely to be found without a very thorough search. The spare keys are lodged in a bank safe deposit box, in case they are needed if I'm not around, but nobody, not even my wife, will have access to them unless I'm dead, nor does she know the key-box number.

tac

J.R.

Interesting to find out how many of the majority....NO WAY.....had a gun licenced in their own name at 16.

Where did they keep it?......I know I had one at 16 and there was no requirement for safes at that time.....it had a trigger lock, as I had two younger brothers, and stored on the top shelf of the wardrobe in my bedroom.

I know times have changed but people and teenagers were also under pressure in the 70's, 80's & early 90's.

If the teenager has it licenced in their own name then they can have the gun in the field on their own. The Gardaí & parents who gave permission felt the person was mature enough to own one and go out on their own.

Only the parents will know best but sometimes we have to give teenagers and young adults more credit than they often get. The majority are very level-headed, bright individuals with plenty of cop-on.

Cass

PickledLime wrote: »

Why would you keep a firearm full stop? Especially at age 16

Skatedude wrote: »

Er? not to many people have been killed by a football

People, read the forum charter. This is the shooting forum and as firearm ownership is 100% legal questioning the morality of owning firearms is not allowed.

On a personal note they are sporting firearm and not that sh*te you see on Love/Hate so take everything you've seen over the years on TV and forget it. None of it happens.

bravestar wrote: »

Why would anyone want to store a firearm in their bedroom? ............................. So back to my original question, WHY would you keep a firearm in your bedroom?

As was touched on the OP is licensed and possibly the main owner/licensee on the firearm. Also as was touched on if the CPO signed off then there is no issue.

thelurcher wrote: »

While the above is legally correct parents should think carefully about it before getting into that situation. To put yourself in a position where your child is the only one in your home allowed access to the firearm makes no sense..

If he has been deemed of sufficiently competent mind and body to be licensed on the gun then why is there questioning about the location of the safe.

People have questioned the OP having access to the firearm in his room. What about when he is out and about with it? In the public domain? A little common sense here lads. He is legal, licensed, and competent so questioning the safety of him having access is moot, and from my point of view a little insulting. The implication that he should not have access to it while on his own in his room when he is licensed to own and carry it in public is laughable.

GarIT wrote: »

I would question the sanity of any parent that didn't keep the gun in their possession while it was not in use. Does the news not teach us enough about what happens when kids have guns.

The OP is licensed. Meaning he has passed a Garda background check, passed a competency course, and as such deemed safe to be in possession of a firearm.

Lastly to have a firearm in the house and not locked away when not in use is an offence. So for a parent to have the gun in their possession all the time would actually be an offence and in my eyes more dangerous than if it were locked away securely.

tac foley wrote:

Obviously, in Ireland you do things differently, as I'm often reminded,

You might be reminded when there is a difference but in this case the law is the same as England. No one bar a licensed person can have access to or possess/use the firearm(s)

J.R. wrote:

Interesting to find out how many of the majority....NO WAY.....had a gun licenced in their own name at 16

As is evident from the posts from non regulars, and based on their attitude about firearms in general that poll may not be representative of shooting regulars, but may be representative of the majority of the public with no firearm knowledge or experience. IOW the Father Ted appraoch (Down with this sort of thing). Based on what they have seen on TV they are simply anti gun.

This thread has turned very quickly into a questioning of the appropriateness of the OP to have in his possession HIS OWN FIREARM. Seriously. We have argued for years for children younger than 16 to be able to enter the world of sports shooting, and here everyone is arguing about the OP's (licensed) competency to have his own firearm in his possession/room.

It's a non argument as far as i'm concerned and as for the scaremongering about him being able to get to it. He can do that anytime he wants. Forget for the moment that his Father is also licensed, it's his gun and his responsibility to make sure it's secure. If that means the safe is in his room, and the keys kept away from parents, friends, etc then so be it. If the CPO has signed off then he is more than covered. Has anyone thought about the fact that perhaps the parents insisted on it. A friend of mine, younger than me, has a few firearms. Granted he is not a teen, but non of his family shoot or are interested in firearms. So they cannot have access to the safe, guns, etc. To imply that he should give them access due to his age is wrong, and illegal.


Anyway, partial rant over.

Sparks

PickledLime wrote: »

Why would you keep a firearm full stop? Especially at age 16

Gosh, I can't think of a single reason.









I mean, lots of different reasons, yeah, sure, but just one? No, too difficult.

Sparks

Skatedude wrote: »

Er? not to many people have been killed by a football

More people have died playing GAA football on the pitch over the last three years than have died in formal target shooting in Ireland since the earliest record we have of it (in 1840). And honestly, even if you avoid those cases, the injury rates from both GAA and soccer - be it inter-county level or kickabout 5-a-side level - look insanely high in comparison to target shooting.

And can the new posters joining us -- especially the ones who've never seen a gun outside of television or movies and who don't know what the firearms laws in Ireland are or what target shooting sports look like -- please reread the forum charter? This is the shooting forum; if you have a hankering to talk about how you think firearms are the root of all evil, please go somewhere else.

1shot16

Sparks wrote: »

Gosh, I can't think of a single reason.









I mean, lots of different reasons, yeah, sure, but just one? No, too difficult.

Apply cold water to burned area....

tac foley

Great set of pix, Sparks, and very appropriate. Meanwhile, not in Ireland, but....http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/shooting/24102032

and she's a world champion, too.

tac

Witcher

Having a proper use for them doesn't satisfy everyone unfortunately, someone suggested on After Hours that clay pigeons with some sort of laser receiver could be designed and you shoot at them with a laser shotgun and the system tells you if you hit it or not.

I know you can do simulated clays by firing at a screen but this person meant actual clay pigeons with a built in receiver, thrown from a trap and you fire a laser at them:pac:

1shot16

Blay wrote: »

Having a proper use for them doesn't satisfy everyone unfortunately, someone suggested on After Hours that clay pigeons with some sort of laser receiver could be designed and you shoot at them with a laser shotgun and the system tells you if you hit it or not.

I know you can do simulated clays by firing at a screen but this person meant actual clay pigeons, thrown from a trap and you fire a laser at them:pac:

Here is another example of i dont even know.

Can everyone that dosent have some sort of knowledge about firearms or does not own one get off this thread your just embarrassing yourself please.

Sparks

aaakev wrote: »

Is the teenager licenced to have the gun? If so i dont see the problem

Just on that point, the reason I'm not saying "yes, of course, the gardai have cleared them so the parent's role is over now" -- apart from the obvious point every parent reading that is now thinking if not saying out loud -- is that nobody's yet mentioned the category of the u-16s with training licences where the whole premise behind the licence is that the u-16 doesn't yet know firearms safety or technique well enough and that there's someone (usually a parent) who's on a full licence on that firearm and who's accepted responsibility for the u-16's training and for their safety during that training - and a big part of that is the secure storage of the firearm.

When the OP said u-18 shooters, that was the first category that jumped to my mind (obviously the other category of the under-18, over-16 on a full licence jumped to everyone elses), and that's a whole other situation than the one the OP is in.

thelurcher

Yes but rules to be set(keys of safe given to parent at night)

Cass wrote: »

Also as was touched on if the CPO signed off then there is no issue.

If he has been deemed of sufficiently competent mind and body to be licensed on the gun then why is there questioning about the location of the safe.

People have questioned the OP having access to the firearm in his room. What about when he is out and about with it? In the public domain? A little common sense here lads. He is legal, licensed, and competent so questioning the safety of him having access is moot, and from my point of view a little insulting. The implication that he should not have access to it while on his own in his room when he is licensed to own and carry it in public is laughable.

The OP is licensed. Meaning he has passed a Garda background check, passed a competency course, and as such deemed safe to be in possession of a firearm.

You'd swear the Gardai get a thorough psych evaluation done on every firearm applicant. FFS they don't even ring the referees or contact GP's etc. for the majority of applicants.
My local station has two Gardai and covers a huge area with thousands of people. They're not in a great position to make judgements on the state of mind of every teenager around.

All I'm hoping is that any responsible parent reading this thread would think carefully before allowing their child to get a license. Not saying that they shouldn't get it but just make sure they realise that their 'little darling' may from time to time have lapses in judgement - so put conditions in place before hand.
We don't allow them vote, drink or drive a car at some of the ages you can legally use a gun so use a bit of cop on.

bravestar

Blay wrote: »

Each to their own. You're not aware of the layout of my living space so please reserve judgement.

Ya know what man, your dead right. I apologise if the tone of my reply came across a bit scorpy. It wasn't intended that way. Hug?

skinnylizzy

Yes but rules to be set(keys of safe given to parent at night)

Hmmmm..... I voted No because it was the option that was closest to the answer I would give. I'd say if the options were a bit different, the pie chart would look a bit different too.

All the above posts about a 16 year old fully licensed firearm owner are very valid but we all know that pier pressure has a very big influence in your teenage years. A very responsible, honest and nice young lad that has passed all the Gradaí criteria can be made do something very stupid and out of character with enough pier pressure from let's say and ill intentioned close friend. "Go on, get it!!!! Giz a look!!! I won't do anything, I just wanna look!!!! What do the bullets look like?????? Can I look through the scope?????" All o a sudden your so called best mate is looking out your bedroom window with a rifle.........

There are 2 different types of firearm holder in question too. For the people that have a bit of land or plenty of permissions, yeah the 16 year old is within his/her rights to take his firearm and go and shoot on that land, therefore he/she should have the right to hold his own sage keys and have that safe in his/her room, fair enough.

What if, like me, you live in one of our country's cities, you are a member of a club, you have no permissions and you only shoot Clay and Target. Now my club is a 30 min drive away and I know not one soul with a bit of land. So why would my hypothetical 16 year old require a safe in his/her room? I would be bringing him/her out shooting so he/she can take the gun out of the safe when I am taking mine, he/she could clean it when I am cleaning mine. I wouldn't allow a 16 year old fully licensed firearm holder to go on a bus on his/her own alone with a shotgun or rifle to go shooting in the club. If the Gardaí are ok with the 16 year olds firearm being kept in the safe that is currently in the household, whether I would need to upgrade my security or not, I don't see the need for him/her to have their own safe in there room.

Cass

thelurcher wrote: »

You'd swear the Gardai get a thorough psych evaluation done on every firearm applicant. FFS they don't even ring the referees or contact GP's etc. for the majority of applicants.

They check for criminal background, and if no other doctor details than a GP are given it's a safe bet that no mental health issues are there. Also to imply that a thorough mental health check be done for a perspective young firearm owner only leads back into the play of politicians, and others that not so long ago argued the same for all firearm owners.

You cannot legislate for the unpredictable. Take precautions, but not to the extent it strangles the sport.

All I'm hoping is that any responsible parent reading this thread would think carefully before allowing their child to get a license. Not saying that they shouldn't get it but just make sure they realise that their 'little darling' may from time to time have lapses in judgement - so put conditions in place before hand.
We don't allow them vote, drink or drive a car at some of the ages you can legally use a gun so use a bit of cop on.

This annoys me. Not you personally just the attitude.

We have more training, advise, information, and stronger background checks than most of us done when we were in our teens. We have argued for years among ourselves how limited we are in young sections of shooting disciplines, and have called for situations like the UK where youths as young as 10 or 12 can use a firearm (under supervision).

Then the OP goes through the same procedure that we all did, was deemed safe, and competent, granted a license, and now it/he is criticised based on his age. I know grown men that shouldn't have guns, have lapses in good judgement, break the law yet based on their age they are called fools, and not a danger.

When you think of how hard it is to get a license which is compounded when you are young, and then have the fact that the parents may not like guns or not interested it's a tough uphill climb to get youngsters involved without our own turning on them (to a degree)

I absolutely agree that the parents need to be involved and from a legal stand point they are. They can stop a youngster getting a gun by denying permission to have it stored in their house. So if the parents were in any way concerned about the ability of "little Johnny" to act safely they could stop it dead. I know some parents view their child with rose tinted glasses, but not to the level they would allow an unstable child to have a gun.

skinnylizzy

Yes but rules to be set(keys of safe given to parent at night)

I also have to say Fair Play to the OP. you've opened up a really interesting debate here. It looked a very ordinary question at the start but I'm really enjoying watching the thread unfold. So Qudos to you 1shot16.

Cass

Absolutely, and it's good to see level heads and reasoned debate prevailing and not name calling, etc.

One shot on kill

Cass wrote: »

Absolutely, and it's good to see level heads and reasoned debate prevailing and not name calling, etc.

Don't jinks it now.

tac foley

Cass wrote: »

...the UK where youths as young as 10 or 12 can use a firearm (under supervision).

Here in UK we have gun club family membership where youngsters, as young as eight or nine, are allowed to shoot firearms of a size that they can safely manage - closely monitored by mom or dad, of course, who are themsleves full and competent club members. I always take along a very small BSA bolt-action rifle that was bought in 1910 for a youngster, who eventually went off to war and neer came home again. Add to that that only in the island of Ireland - north and South - do you have to be licensed to own and shoot a target air rifle or pistol that we see in Spark's pics above.

Believe me, it helps a lot, not having the PITA necessity to license any air rifle of 12 ft lbs or under, for literally thousands of shooters of all ages.

thelurcher

Yes but rules to be set(keys of safe given to parent at night)

Cass wrote: »

They check for criminal background, and if no other doctor details than a GP are given it's a safe bet that no mental health issues are there. Also to imply that a thorough mental health check be done for a perspective young firearm owner only leads back into the play of politicians, and others that not so long ago argued the same for all firearm owners.

I'm not saying or even implying that they should introduce mental health checks at all. I'm saying that the current process doesn't go very far at all towards proving a child is responsible enough to own a firearm so parents should act responsibly themselves in making the right preparations - is that unreasonable?

The rest of your post above is pretty much pointless because I was clear that I'm talking about what the parents should do - not asking for politicians to introduce more legislation.