Cannabis bill

Zambia

zenno wrote: »

Look, I have made a valid point above, and if you cannot understand it then that's your problem, but things need to be done instead of just spouting the law regarding this herb.

What do you have in mind?

zenno

@ Zambia

Medical under prescription is not an issue for me anyway.

Well I'm glad to hear that, as cannabis is very beneficial to the health and well-being of folk of which have certain illnesses. It's a start.

Once the cannabinoids and THC are not exiled and a new pharma chemical substance is used, then that's good. There is no point in changing the natural structure of the herb to suit pharma drug companies.

zenno

Zambia wrote: »

What do you have in mind?

I have just explained it in my earlier Edit above #47 on this page.

Zambia

No you have not the question I asked was if you dont want democracy, what form of government would you prefer?

zenno

Zambia wrote: »

No you have not the question I asked was if you dont want democracy, what form of government would you prefer?

Ah, you didn't explain your question like this in the earlier post, you should have made your point clearer.

I do want democracy, but am I going to get true democracy ?

A government that upholds true democracy, but we in Ireland are not living in a real democracy now are we. A democracy of equal intelligent understandings on both sides of the debate of which does not happen here in Ireland as has been shown in our previous dail debate regarding cannabis legislation, what a poor old fart political excuse of a debate and democracy. It's turning into a dictatorship slowly but surely.

You have to understand that you are not living in a true democracy here in Ireland.

Zambia

zenno wrote: »

Ah, you didn't explain your question like this in the earlier post, you should have made your point clearer.

I do want democracy, but am I going to get true democracy ?

A government that upholds true democracy, but we in Ireland are not living in a real democracy now are we. A democracy of equal intelligent understandings on both sides of the debate of which does not happen here in Ireland as has been showed in our previous dail debate regarding cannabis legislation, what a poor old fart political excuse of a debate and democracy. It's turning into a dictatorship slowly but surely.

You have to understand that you are not living in a true democracy here in Ireland.

Where is your version of "True democracy" in place?

Barrel

Zambia wrote: »

The comparison is simple Theft of Motor Vehicle is illegal because the will of the majority want this to be the case.

The sale of Cannabis is illegal because the will of the majority want it to be the case.


Every person over 18 could become a dealer. The fact you think getting someone over the age of 18 to purchase a legal product is harder than purchasing an illegal product is absurd.

1. I honestly cant belive that you think both are illegal so there the same

2. There is no evidence that the majority wants this to remain illegal in fact from Polls in THE JOURNAL.IE and Facebook (oct 30th 267 comments 100/% in favour) I think its the oppisite,

3. Every person over 18 could become a dealer right now? absolutely nothing stopping them and they would have a huge market.

If cannabis was legal would teenagers buy weed off new 18/21 drug dealer's who would have no market btw and also buy it at a higher price than its available for*** - No, They would hang around for hours asking people to buy it for them like thay do at the off licence now

***(if it was not at a higher price than the purchase price how would these new wave of ordinary 18/21 year old's that suddenly would turn into drug dealers selling cannabis on the black market make a profit?)

Zambia

Barrel wrote: »

1. I honestly cant belive that you think both are illegal so there the same

I never said they are the same one is a much more serious offence, I said they are both illegal as there is legislation dealing with both.

Barrel wrote: »

2. There is no evidence that the majority wants this to remain illegal in fact from Polls in THE JOURNAL.IE and Facebook (oct 30th 267 comments 100/% in favour) I think its the oppisite,

Well as soon as facebook polls make legislation your sorted. If you are ever charged with possession you should use that as a defence.

Barrel wrote: »

3. Every person over 18 could become a dealer right now? absolutely nothing stopping them and they would have a huge market.

The fact its illegal , the Gardai, the courts, prison etc ?

Barrel wrote: »

If cannabis was legal would teenagers buy weed off new 18/21 drug dealer's who would have no market btw and also buy it at a higher price than its available for*** - No, They would hang around for hours asking people to buy it for them like thay do at the off licence now

So you admit they would get it much easier?

Good man thanks for your input. Your points are ridiculous. If you want to make a case for Cannabis legalisation read Potential Monke post at the beginning of the thread.

Barrel

2

Zambia wrote: »

I never said they are the same one is a much more serious offence, I said they are both illegal as there is legislation dealing with both.

You said in post #10 By that logic we may as well make Joyriding legal and a host of other crimes. implying that if we allow one thing thats currently illegal to become legal why not allow everything, warped reasoning


Well as soon as facebook polls make legislation your sorted. If you are ever charged with possession you should use that as a defence.

Twisting words, I was refering to your post #17 "The sale of Cannabis is illegal because the will of the majority want it to be the case." and i showd you two polls on the contrary



The fact its illegal , the Gardai, the courts, prison etc ?

Again twisting words you said in post #17 "Esel hit the nail on the head, every person over 18 could become a dealer." The "illegal , the Gardai, the courts, prison etc." factors would remain the same if it was legalised and you were caught selling it on the black market


So you admit they would get it much easier?

So kids/teens buying now as it stands in an instant from a drug dealer or waiting for hours to buy it if it was legalized, you think the latter is easier?

Good man thanks for your input. Your points are ridiculous. If you want to make a case for Cannabis legalisation read Potential Monke post at the beginning of the thread.

In fact its the reverse ... your points for it to remain illegal are ridiculas ill-informed and outdated

.

Zambia

You said in post #10 By that logic we may as well make Joyriding legal and a host of other crimes. implying that if we allow one thing thats currently illegal to become legal why not allow everything, warped reasoning

In response to the suggestion that making something illegal makes it more appealing.

Twisting words, I was refering to your post #17 "The sale of Cannabis is illegal because the will of the majority want it to be the case." and i showd you two polls on the contrary


The elected Dail has not carried a motion to legalise cannabis, that is a lot more powerful than any online poll. How is the Dail elected?

So kids/teens buying now as it stands in an instant from a drug dealer or waiting for hours to buy it if it was legalized, you think the latter is easier?
So you believe making Cannabis legal would make it harder for kids to get.

You dont have to keep coming at me on this. I am happy to leave you to these ideas I feel no need to change your mind.

Barrel

Zambia wrote: »

You dont have to keep coming at me on this. I am happy to leave you to these ideas I feel no need to change your mind.

I am not coming at you in fact i dont even care about your outdated ill-informed opinion on this anymore, however i do care that your trying to twist everything to suit your warped argument, I was correcting your twisting of my words as i wont allow that to happen to what i said.

Good day to you sir

mathepac

AngryHippie wrote: »

On the Male - Female argument, The Male plants provide little to no psychoactive ingredients. Anyone who has grown a plant can tell you that. Hence Sensimilla being prefered. (prevents pollenation, leading to healthy heady buds). ... (

I'm not arguing about male-female plants but I'm concerned that once again your focus has moved to the stoner potential rather than the medicinal or green potential.

As Bertie says it's all just "smoke and daggers" apart from the stoner potential.

AngryHippie wrote: »

... In the absence of evidence to prove something doesn't exist, how about something other than bleating to prove that it is a gateway drug ? ...

I see, being on my side of the debate and requesting evidence for sweeping unsupported generalisation is "bleating". How would you describe the original sweeping unsupported generalisation, with supporting evidence of course?

AngryHippie wrote: »

... You just destroyed the only thing that made me take you seriously for a bit.:(

Aw gee, don't be so disappointed Diddums, Mommy will be along soon to restore your faith.

Potential-Monke

mathepac wrote: »

Different strokes for different folks. Not all caffeine drinkers become addicted, not all alcohol drinkers become alcoholics, most heroin users in the US forces in Vietnam stopped using heroin after going home, etc

Likewise, not all those who use cannabis become addicted. It has been proven to be less addictive than tobacco or alcohol.

A report issued by a British research foundation concludes that alcohol and tobacco use present much greater risks than the use of marijuana, AFP reported Oct. 3.

The report from the Beckley Foundation said that although marijuana use can have negative effects on physical and mental health, “in terms of relative harms it is considerably less harmful than alcohol or tobacco.”

mathepac wrote: »

- Tax income would be massive

Argument made time and time again in relation to alcohol and tobacco products and it doesn't hold water. The consequential costs of using those two legal drugs exceed the tax take, partly because there is no tax taken from the smuggled versions (see below)

What consequential costs? If cannabis was legalised the illegal dealers, while they wouldn't be completely gone, would lose massive business. As stated above, why would someone looking for cannabis buy it illegally and not know what's in it, against buying it legally and knowing exactly what's in it? A reult of this would be much more people buying it legally, and the tax on it would yeild huge results. Colorado are putting a 25% tax on it, which means it will sell for $250 an ounce, or €190. Break that down, that's about €7 a gram, and the average price in Ireland is about €15 a gram. So even with a 25% tax, it's still half the price of the illegal stuff.

mathepac wrote: »

- Reduced state medical bills

How does that follow? Based on what?

I know plenty of people who drink, but don't smoke because it's illegal, myself included. I also know plenty of those people would swap alcohol for cannabis in the morning if it was legalised, myself included. Cheaper, less harmful (if you vape, etc), and with little to no side-effects for the majority of people. In 2007 Ireland spent €3.7 billion on alcohol related diseases. This would significantly reduce as people change from alcohol to cannabis. I can't give exact figures, as it hasn't happened, but it would make a huge difference. Yes, cannabis will lead to some people needing the state to pay for their abuse, but it would be significantly lower than alcohol related abuse.

mathepac wrote: »

- Would put a lot of criminals out of business

Criminals in this country and the UK (for example) make as much if not more money from smuggling illegal tobacco and alcohol and knock-off designer products as they do from illegal drugs.

True, they do make money elsewhere, but what's the harm in taking any bit of business off them. €160 million worth of cannabis seized in the last 4 years in Ireland, which is still only a fraction of what is out there. Now if cannabis was legalised all this, plus God knows how much more, would be spent legally. Any money out of criminals hands is good for the country.

mathepac wrote: »

- Free up Garda time

How? What percentage of Garda time is currently used pursuing and prosecuting stoners?

It's not just stoners, here's Operation Nitrogen, one of many operations which directly targeted cannabis growing. Here's an article from 2008 (could probably find a newer one, but this will do the job) which states that Total drug offences rose from 5,324 to 8,924 (a rise of 41%). And going by the link i provided for the criminals point above, €70 million seized last year alone, so those figures have surely risen with demand for the product. So i would more or less guarantee that significant time for Gardaí would be spared.

mathepac wrote: »

- Creation of lots and lots of jobs

How? What sort of jobs? Where?

If/When it becomes legal, grow farms would be needed, transport would be needed, security would be needed, dispensaries would be needed. All of these would create hundreds of jobs across the country.

mathepac wrote: »

- The product would be pure and unadulterated, thus safer

Nonsense, total rubbish. What is the product? The main "active ingredient" is delta9- tetrahydrocannabinol but this is ingested along with multiple other compounds (close to 500) contained in the plant material, oil or resin. Ingesting "pure and unadulterated" delta9- tetrahydrocannabinol is likely to lead to extreme reactions, perhaps even death. Unfortunately your views / opinions are ill-informed and potentially dangerous.

It would be pure and unadulterated in relation to the illegal stuff which can be got right now. No sand blasting, no glass spraying, no god knows what else. It would be the plant, grown in a controlled environment and treated properly. Yes, it has it's own chemicals in it which are harmful, but it would be as it was meant to be, and not polluted with anything else to make it heavier. Also, it's still safer than alcohol or tobacco. You mention that it could even lead to death. If so, why isn't there 1 single piece of evidence which links cannabis directly to someones death?

mathepac wrote: »

- Tourism

Just what we need, more stoners wandering the streets aimlessly

And how many do you see wandering the streets aimlessly right now? Ones that have taken just cannabis?

mathepac wrote: »

If you had done any research you would know that there are primarily two types of cannabis plants; one type produces lots of fibrous material and very little active ingredient; the other produces higher concentrations of active ingredient and relatively little useful fibrous material to use in manufacturing processes.

So you're either in the drug-growing business or growing manufacturing raw materials; you'll never be doing both successfully with the same variety of plant.

All this green, environmentally friendly stuff associated with the drug bearing plant is just hog-wash, stoner propaganda for the ill-informed.
and the evidence in support of this sweeping generalisation is ... more than likely more stoner propaganda.

I know extremely well the difference. You can't be in my job and not have done your research. But both plants are thrown into the same category, they're both illegal. You can get a permit to grow hemp, but i've not yet heard of anyone who has successfully done so.

As for the stoner-propaganda, i can't find any direct scientific facts or research which can counter-argue the facts and scientific truths put forward by the "stoner-propaganda".

Craiggers

Amazing isn't it if cannabis is so bad how the country who spent the most money on the war on drugs (yes the size of the country before someone goes there) has now started to legalise it and voting it in at rates of 2 votes to 1 like the last state voted it in.......

But then again we are the country that condoms were frowned upon and the work of the devil.... We held the Catholic Church in such high regard they were always right.... Pity about all the cases coming out now involving them now....If only our country wasn't so narrow minded and backward imagine what we could achieve......

I don't use my right to vote nor would I when all the main parties are all the same when someone is not so narrow minded in my constituency runs and shows forward thinking I will exercise my right to vote.....

I encourage people to watch the live courage of the Dail and see how wrecklessy ill informed the main parties in the government are the only ones who actually speaks sense are few and far between and mainly made up of independent TDs...... They speak about their own personal opinion rather then the opinion of the people who voted them into power shame on them...... If they set up forums like this opened debates to their constituency they could really see what people think not just guess and for the most part not always wrong......

Ireland will always lag behind as long as FF FG and the labour parties are anyway near government..... Thank you guys for the billions of debt and not one man or woman in prison for causing it all fair play but I guess ye know best

Did you know Obama smoked weed, Bill Clinton and Richard Branson endorse weed..... All powerful intelligent men go figure ehh?

AngryHippie

Zambia wrote: »

The elected Dail has not carried a motion to legalise cannabis, that is a lot more powerful than any online poll. How is the Dail elected?

elected in by 36.1% of 70% of the eligible voters in the country,

so about 25.2% of the overall eligible voters. For Shame to call that a victory, or a majority.

And that's why we end up with the same sort of monkey's in there all the time.
They campaign to appeal to groups of steady voters (Biddies, same party, same policy, vote every time).

Despite the fact that 30% of people didn't vote (overseas, not arsed whatever the reason)

One of the things I love about Oz, is if you don't vote you get a fine.
Great idea.

Craiggers

AngryHippie wrote: »

And that's why we end up with the same sort of monkey's in there all the time.
They campaign to appeal to groups of steady voters (Biddies, same party, same policy, vote every time).

Despite the fact that 30% of people didn't vote (overseas, not arsed whatever the reason)

One of the things I love about Oz, is if you don't vote you get a fine.
Great idea.

Surely against some law fining for not exercising your right to vote..... I would happily end up in court not paying fines then vote for the likes of Phil Hogan, Enda Kenny, Pat Rabbite, Michael Martin

I used to think that Luke Flanagan was a complete and utter numpty listening to him speak because I was always taught that cannabis was the devils flower that it drove people skitzo...... Reading articles and journals written by top scientists, physicians and psychologists around the world that have shown there are bad affects to cannabis but they are far outweighed by the benefits...... I have educated myself, actually tried the stuff and hey I'm not addicted, I'm not skitzo, I'm not a couch potato and hey another couple a months and il be fully qualified with an honours degree........

Luke lives in the real world bringing up real world issues I think he went a little bit over board and pushed it in the wrong way but applaud his innovation and courage to bring this bill to the table...... Decriminalise yes, legalise yes but 28grams at a time is far too much 4/5 is more than adequate at a time..... Licence to grow for social clubs and six plants for personal use is wrong.... The government should have total control and monopolise the market ( I have doubts that they could organise a piss up in a brewery let alone this but hey ho)

The majority of cannabis users in Ireland are not actually kids and scum bags but educated full time employed middle class Ireland interesting fact

As was brought up in the debates in the Dail skitzophrenia has stayed the same if not decreased as the use has grown the information is there for us to educate ourselves and make the right decisions.......

They gave us a referendum on abolishing the Seanad which is a complete farce in my view..... Give us a referendum we actually care about......

AngryHippie

Craiggers wrote: »

Surely against some law fining for not exercising your right to vote..... I would happily end up in court not paying fines then vote for the likes of Phil Hogan, Enda Kenny, Pat Rabbite, Michael Martin

No, not against the law at all. You can show up and spoil your vote, but you have to show up.

Interesting read on your personal experience with the old doobie,
Mine was pretty similar. completely anti when I was at school etc. I even got myself into some hot water for trying to push it out of school, but thats another story.
Then shortly after leaving school, watching the Australian GP at a friends house, someone rolled one, and lobbed it left, I had a toke, didn't go schizo, didn't get stuck to the couch, went on and studied an honors degree (with mixed succes, due to the excesses of booze, and student life, with a little bit of doobie mixed in) still don't regret a bit of it, and am a firm believer that decriminalizing it would be of benefit to society and the exchequer.

@Mathepac, I don't appreciate the Mummy comments, I don't think they are appropriate, and take it a little bit personally. You don't know the lady, nor should you be commenting on her from your high horse.
Your so far distanced from the real world, you don't even know how your horse got high.

Craiggers

I'm not the only either in college that has had this experience either I bet

You think about it in the college of about 14000+
There is close to if not more than 1kg sold and smoked every 2 weeks we'll say for arguments sake that is 7500 euro straight to the higher dealer this is then sold as 4 bars (9oz in each) at 2200 a bar this is then sold in ounces ranging from 300 to 350 which is then sold in 9 bags making 450 on each ounce

So in turn 9x9x4x50 is 16200 by the time it reaches the actual consumer now multiply that by 13 weeks (13 weeks in a semester 2 semesters as I said 1kg every 2 weeks) is equal to 210,600 euros in someone's pocket illegally each college year not taking into account exam weeks and holidays now add in all the rest of the colleges in Ireland ya see my point....... And that is colleges alone

1kg per 2 weeks is modest and may not seem a lot but when you start doing the maths on it..... It all really adds up

Now that is on average for a college that not all people smoke so if you were bored and wanted to start working out 250,000 regular users at we say a 50 bag a week 52 weeks in a year the number gets bigger and bigger money that could be in the governments pocket not this nidge guy who thinks he is all that and a bag a chips you know hope it paints a clearer picture on the revenue side

hatrickpatrick

Zambia wrote: »

By that logic we may as well make Joyriding legal and a host of other crimes

Joyriding involves harming non-consenting third parties through (a) the theft of vehicles, and (b) breaking numerous safety laws such as speed limits, putting others at risk.

No drug directly does this. There's second hand smoking, but that is dependent on where the smoking occurs, not simply on the act of smoking itself.

No act which has no direct effect on non-consenting third parties should be the business of the state. As far as underage people go, there's no reason they can't e legally barred from possessing it while legalising it for adults - the rest comes down to good or bad parenting.

Craiggers

Berlin agree to open it's first cannabis cafe good news for the Irish they'll get it in here too since they run our country..... Wish full thinking.......

shampon

I love reading the statements of the "legalize it" crowd. The vast majority of my day is spent dealing with the results of drug abuse and poor social care systems. I would love Luke Flanagan or any of the "legalize it" crowd to accompany any member of the Emergency Services to a suicide, a murder or fatal road collision that are or have their origins in drug abuse. Come down to the level that we as Emergency Services operate on for one day and you'll soon change your opinion.

mikom

shampon wrote: »

I love reading the statements of the "legalize it" crowd. The vast majority of my day is spent dealing with the results of drug abuse and poor social care systems. I would love Luke Flanagan or any of the "legalize it" crowd to accompany any member of the Emergency Services to a suicide, a murder or fatal road collision that are or have their origins in drug abuse. Come down to the level that we as Emergency Services operate on for one day and you'll soon change your opinion.

Highlighted for clarity.

I presume you campaign daily for the prohibition of alcohol as the abuse of it is found to be a factor in much more suicides, murders, and fatal road collisions.

Oh, hold on..........

shampon wrote: »

Never to far from a pub for a quiet pint.

I guess not.

shampon wrote: »

I love reading the statements of the "legalize it" crowd.

Can't say the same for the thoughts of hypocrites myself.
.
.
.

Holsten

shampon wrote: »

I love reading the statements of the "legalize it" crowd. The vast majority of my day is spent dealing with the results of drug abuse and poor social care systems. I would love Luke Flanagan or any of the "legalize it" crowd to accompany any member of the Emergency Services to a suicide, a murder or fatal road collision that are or have their origins in drug abuse. Come down to the level that we as Emergency Services operate on for one day and you'll soon change your opinion.

I highly doubt the drug involved in these would be cannabis.

More than likely the number one would be alcohol.

shampon

Holsten wrote: »

I highly doubt the drug involved in these would be cannabis.

More than likely the number one would be alcohol.

Says you with the experience..?

shampon

mikom wrote: »

Highlighted for clarity.

I presume you campaign daily for the prohibition of alcohol as the abuse of it is found to be a factor in much more suicides, murders, and fatal road collisions.

Oh, hold on..........



I guess not.




Can't say the same for the thoughts of hypocrites myself.
.
.
.

I spend my days in work, working then I spend what little time I have left with my woman / friends / family and training hard so I can protect and serve the public. I do not have the time as much as I would like to fight for tighter alcohol control or sensible drugs legislation, I simply can't.

mikom

shampon wrote: »

I spend my days in work, working then I spend what little time I have left with my woman / friends / family and training hard so I can protect and serve the public. I do not have the time as much as I would like to fight for tighter alcohol control or sensible drugs legislation, I simply can't.

Have you time to see your hypocrisy though?

AngryHippie

shampon wrote: »

I spend my days in work, working then I spend what little time I have left with my woman / friends / family and training hard so I can protect and serve the public. I do not have the time as much as I would like to fight for tighter alcohol control or sensible drugs legislation, I simply can't.

That you Bruce Wayne ?

tighter alcohol control : Proven not to work. Would be a waste of your valuable time anyway

sensible drugs legislation: What would you deem sensible ? Prohibition? (See my point above)

bravestar

AngryHippie wrote: »

That you Bruce Wayne ?

tighter alcohol control : Proven not to work. Would be a waste of your valuable time anyway

sensible drugs legislation: What would you deem sensible ? Prohibition? (See my point above)

Ah yea sure what's the point in prohibiting anything or trying to control it. Let's just let everyone do what they want. Now where's me crack pipe... Need a hit before I drive to tesco

AngryHippie

bravestar wrote: »

Ah yea sure what's the point in prohibiting anything or trying to control it. Let's just let everyone do what they want. Now where's me crack pipe... Need a hit before I drive to tesco

You miss the point by quite a bit here.

I'm saying there is no point trying to legislate against human nature. It will fail, or be completely impractical.
Legislation must be enforceable, and clearly from the evidence in the "war on drugs" the current model does not work.
Escalating the "war" will require more resources,(not currently available) and has no guarantee of improving efficiency at combating the problem.
Changing the approach, has been proven to work in many countries and states around the World, be it decriminalization of minor amounts or full on legalization and regulation of the market.
Either way, turning it into a discussion about driving to Tesco on crack is an instant way to expose gaping holes in both knowledge and understanding of the discussion.
Congratulations, I guess.:)

mikom

bravestar wrote: »

Ah yea sure what's the point in prohibiting anything or trying to control it. Let's just let everyone do what they want. Now where's me crack pipe... Need a hit before I drive to tesco

I heard Tesco are doing a special on strawmen.

goldie fish

shampon wrote: »

Says you with the experience..?

I have to agree. In 1995 during Feile, Gardaí made over three days 200 seizures of hash, all for personal use. There was zero public order offences, and no trouble from those who were searched and seizures made. One unfortunate individual drowned, while trying to swim across the river, under the influence of alcohol.

The one arrest was of a youth trying to deal ecstasy, while under the influence of alcohol. It took 4 gardai to subdue him.

Holsten

Exactly.

It's easy to tell the drugs that will/do cause problems and the ones that won't/don't.

Cannabis/MDMA = Happy, loving, sleepy.
Alcohol/Cocaine = Violent, aggressive, angry.

This bill is about a drug that makes people sleepy, dopey, hungry and surgically attached to their couch, that's it.

Zambia

We have never really stamped out any crime?

How is the war on burglary going?

mikom

Zambia wrote: »

How is the war on burglary going?

Hopefully it's going well, as it at least is a worthy pursuit.

shampon

mikom wrote: »

Have you time to see your hypocrisy though?

Sure I'm a walking contradiction.

shampon

AngryHippie wrote: »

You miss the point by quite a bit here.

I'm saying there is no point trying to legislate against human nature. It will fail, or be completely impractical.
Legislation must be enforceable, and clearly from the evidence in the "war on drugs" the current model does not work.
Escalating the "war" will require more resources,(not currently available) and has no guarantee of improving efficiency at combating the problem.
Changing the approach, has been proven to work in many countries and states around the World, be it decriminalization of minor amounts or full on legalization and regulation of the market.
Either way, turning it into a discussion about driving to Tesco on crack is an instant way to expose gaping holes in both knowledge and understanding of the discussion.
Congratulations, I guess.:)

So you trust the state to be able to regulate the use of drugs efficiently and fairly? The same state that is getting it wrong with the prohibition of such drugs...

I agree that the War is flawed. I favor increased treatment and impartial information and advice for all drug addiction.

Does the bill make reference to increased funding for mental health within local communities?

mikom

shampon wrote: »

Does the bill make reference to increased funding for mental health within local communities?

Part 15, Section 60

All tax revenue from cannabis to fund drug addiction services, medical research and juvenile education courses on drugs.

Zambia

mikom wrote: »

Hopefully it's going well, as it at least is a worthy pursuit.

What makes it a worthy pursuit?

Potential-Monke

shampon wrote: »

I love reading the statements of the "legalize it" crowd. The vast majority of my day is spent dealing with the results of drug abuse and poor social care systems. I would love Luke Flanagan or any of the "legalize it" crowd to accompany any member of the Emergency Services to a suicide, a murder or fatal road collision that are or have their origins in drug abuse. Come down to the level that we as Emergency Services operate on for one day and you'll soon change your opinion.

It's been touched on by others, but i'll throw my shoe in anyway.

I am a member of the ES, a frontline member. I am part of the legalise it crowd, just not in public as i can't be seen to support something that is against the law. I also see what effect drug abuse has, daily, numerous times a day. Not once have i accredited cannabis with anything i have encountered. Alcohol, cocaine and heroin are the bad apples. I've never once been to a domestic, assault or public order incident where cannabis (or MDMA for that matter) has been the direct cause of said incident.

People need to seriously step back and look at the facts. Look at the benefit cannabis (or, specifically CBD) has for hundreds of thousands of people. Look at Charlottes Web, a stain of cannabis made for children! Extremely low THC (the "high" part) and very high CBD (the medicinal part). Give to a 5 year old who was immediately "cured" of her condition (with the strain subsequently named after her). It doesn't get her high, but it stops her having 700 fits a week (down to 2 a month at most). You don't have to get high to reap the benefits. Getting high is a choice should it be legalised.