Do women get more lenient sentences?

Azwaldo55

iptba wrote: »

An issue would be whether such a person had a good chance to become similarly insane in future and be a risk to others.

If someone was insane when they committed a crime and now is sane they should be free to go.

ahnowbrowncow

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

If someone was insane when they committed a crime and now is sane they should be free to go.

No they shouldn't. They should still serve a sentence for manslaughter, they still killed two people.

Azwaldo55

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

No they shouldn't. They should still serve a sentence for manslaughter, they still killed two people.

If someone is insane they are not responsible for their actions. Only a sane person can commit murder or manslaughter. The only thing to be considered when someone is not in their right mind is treating them and when they are in their right mind again releasing them.

ahnowbrowncow

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

If someone is insane they are not responsible for their actions. Only a sane person can commit murder or manslaughter. The only thing to be considered when someone is not in their right mind is treating them and when they are in their right mind again releasing them.

And what about the victim's family? What justice do they get? They should get a reduced sentence but a sentence nontheless.

Pawwed Rig

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

And what about the victim's family? What justice do they get? They should get a reduced sentence but a sentence nontheless.

That depends on how you see the role of sentencing. Is it for rehabilitation or punishment or both.
Interesting data on 2 more cases
http://abigailrieley.com/wordpress/index.php/2009/02/04/case-mind-boggling-sadness/

Tom and Jerry

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

If someone is insane they are not responsible for their actions. Only a sane person can commit murder or manslaughter. The only thing to be considered when someone is not in their right mind is treating them and when they are in their right mind again releasing them.

You see when people aren't held accountable they will be less careful to prevent such incidents occurring. If you know there that if you become insane and kill someone you will go to prison you will be more vigilant or early signs of insanity and seek help thus preventing the loss of lives.

Tom and Jerry

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

That depends on how you see the role of sentencing. Is it for rehabilitation or punishment or both.
Interesting data on 2 more cases
ailrieley.com/wordpress/index.php/2009/02/04/case-mind-boggling-sadness/[/url]

Sentencing should be about protecting society. If you want to rehabilitate someone you don't lock them up in a prison.

Azwaldo55

Tom and Jerry wrote: »

You see when people aren't held accountable they will be less careful to prevent such incidents occurring. If you know there that if you become insane and kill someone you will go to prison you will be more vigilant or early signs of insanity and seek help thus preventing the loss of lives.

Just about the stupidest comment I have ever read.

How does a person who is going insane know they are in the process of sliding into insanity?

People who are mentally ill do not know they are mentally ill and they have no control over mental illness.

Mental illness can be caused by various things such as tumors, infections, injuries, the effects of severe stress and emotional disturbance.

Someone who commits illegal acts when they are insane are not responsible for their actions.

Azwaldo55

Tom and Jerry wrote: »

Sentencing should be about protecting society. If you want to rehabilitate someone you don't lock them up in a prison.

If someone is judged to no longer be a danger to society they can be released.
Society does not need to be protected from a person who is no longer violent and insane or someone who has been judged to have learned the error of their ways if they were rational when they committed their crimes.
If someone remains insane for the rest of their life after committing violent acts they should remain under lock and key to protect society.
If a rational person has committed heinous crimes and shows no sign of rehabilitation I think they should never be let out.
Each individual case should be judged separately.

Pawwed Rig

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

People who are mentally ill do not know they are mentally ill and they have no control over mental illness.

Bit of a generalisation there. Many/Most would be fully aware they are mentally ill.

Azwaldo55

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Bit of a generalisation there. Many/Most would be fully aware they are mentally ill.

Ok ok. But if a person is declared insane after they have committed a killing they cannot be morally responsible for what they have done.

DamoKen

I shouldn't be surprised but c'mon, how do you defend that? "It was an accident y'honour, I was trying to stab her Mum?"

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/walking-free-woman-who-stabbed-toddler-in-attack-on-mum-30423407.html

iptba

DamoKen wrote: »

I shouldn't be surprised but c'mon, how do you defend that? "It was an accident y'honour, I was trying to stab her Mum?"

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/walking-free-woman-who-stabbed-toddler-in-attack-on-mum-30423407.html

And note that that wasn't the only stabbing she did:

The toddler, who was in her mother's arms during the attack, was later treated for a 2cm cut to her cheek and an injury to her forehead. The child's then 27-year-old mother sustained stab wounds to the abdomen, left chest, left arm and scalp.

And the woman's 39-year-old partner suffered a stab injury to his lower chest wall.

DamoKen

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/teen-to-be-sentenced-for-accidentally-stabbing-toddler-while-attacking-childs-mother-29833426.html

Bit more info from last year.

She was very remorseful for hurting the baby in particular and said it had been accident.

And yet

She admitted that she knew the woman was holding the child when she stabbed her.

And from this somehow

Gda Clarke agreed with Elva Duffy BL, defending, that the State accepted she had been reckless rather than intentional in her assault on the toddler.

Not sure how if someone admits they knew a toddler was in the way when they attacked someone with a knife they're just reckless?

And last but not least the defence that is depressingly successful when it comes to very different outcomes for similar crimes depending on one key factor, your gender.

He accepted that she has been in care since she was nine years old, has spent time homeless, has mental health and self harm issues and significant substance and alcohol abuse problems.

Ms Duffy said her client’s mother died when she was nine years old and her father was an addict with several criminal convictions.

Fran Devlin, manager of a care taker hostel that has been assisting Kinsella, told Ms Duffy that she has a significant addiction to prescribed drugs.

She said that she believes Kinsella needs to undergo detoxification in a medical environment and recommended such a programme in St Michael’s Ward of Beaumont Hospital.

Ms Duffy said her client doesn’t underestimate the seriousness of the offence but asked the court to accept that Kinsella is vulnerable and has struggled to try and deal with her many issues.

Pawwed Rig

That is actually staggering. She attacked 3 people with a knife and walks away from court free? The streets are less safe with people like this roaming about.

Maguined

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/dublin-mother-27-avoids-jail-after-breaking-another-womans-jaw-at-house-party-30442275.html

Anne Marie Lawlor BL, defending, said her client never intended to inflict the injuries that were suffered and was “utterly taken aback” when she learned of them.

She said McGlynn was very remorseful and that the incident was very much out of character as she was “not a violent person”.

Never intended to cause injuries and not a violent person defence when we are talking about a broken jaw and biting that has resulted facial scarring and a plate in her haw is just a ludicrous excuse and yet she still walked with a suspended sentence.

iptba

Ohio Launches Drug Court For Women

http://www.thefix.com/content/ohio-launches-drug-court-women

"The concept of the women-only drug court is to move away from treating all offenders in the same manner, while still providing resources to defendants with shared circumstances."

Sounds like it is veering away from treating people equally before the law.

iptba

August 15 article from the UK:

Estate agent who glassed me was only spared jail because she is a woman: Victim says he is disgusted attacker walked free despite 17 previous convictions for assault

•Ronnie Lee, 24, attacked with glass while on night out in Bournemouth
•Yasmin Thomas, 21, given suspended sentence after admitting attack
•Walked free from court despite having 17 previous convictions for assault
•Mr Lee says Thomas was given a lenient sentence because she is female

Judge John Harrow described her criminal history as ‘breathtaking’

Sentencing her, Judge Harrow said: ‘You have a breathtaking record of violence, one of the worst I have ever seen from anyone your age.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2726219/Yasmin-Thomas-victim-disgusted-walked-free.html#ixzz3AtBxsxQA

MikeMRA

I know in the US men get 60% longer sentences and are 165% more likely to be convicted of the same crime.
The gender imbalance is about 6 times larger than the racial prejudice. Your more likely to be arrested as a white man over there than a black woman.

Henry9

Ms Duffy said her client doesn’t underestimate the seriousness of the offence but asked the court to accept that Kinsella is vulnerable and has struggled to try and deal with her many issues.

Feminist excuse for everything that.

iptba

(Sept 4 article)

Parents Convicted Of The Same Crime – Male Gets Jail, Female Gets Off

http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/parents-convicted-crime-male-gets-jail-female-gets/

(to be exact, he got a four-year jail sentence, she got a seven-year suspended sentence)

Pawwed Rig

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2752231/Boyfriend-locked-Belmarsh-Prison-woman-lied-raped-SHE-walks-free.html

py2006

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2752231/Boyfriend-locked-Belmarsh-Prison-woman-lied-raped-SHE-walks-free.html

Imagine serving time in prison based on a quick lie from a woman? Knowing she is free to walk around with not a care in the world. His life is destroyed. I've no doubt that there are men in jail today (and most certainly in the past) who have been falsely accused of rape.

Even if the woman admits lying prior to prosecution or indeed he is found innocent his life is absolutely destroyed. He will always be 'your man who was accused of rape'.

What is grossly unfair is that in a lot of these cases the woman has the right to anonymity and is rarely punished. Yet his face is plastered all over the place. At least the Daily Mail posted a picture of her.

iptba

I don't know all the facts in this case and how different the involvement was for the woman rather than the man. But it's another example of a suspended sentence for a woman in a case that was considered serious enough for one person to get a custodial sentence:

Pensioner jailed for fake detectors 'to find missing Maddie'

A man has been jailed for making bogus bomb detectors in his garden shed which he claimed could find missing Madeleine McCann.

Sam Tree (68), of Dunstable, Bedfordshire, claimed the dud devices could track down explosives, drugs and people.

Detectives heralded the sentencing as the "concluding act in a highly complex, extensive and significant investigation" which has seen three other British con artists convicted of making fake detectors.

It is believed the criminals made around £80 million from the scam. Tree was jailed for three and a half years at London's Kingston Crown Court today after being found guilty at the Old Bailey in August of making an article for use in a fraud between January 2007 and July 2012.

His wife, Joan Tree (62), was handed a two-year prison sentence suspended for two years and ordered to carry out 300 hours of unpaid work in the community after being convicted over the same offence.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/pensioner-jailed-for-fake-detectors-to-find-missing-maddie-30637508.html

iptba

Reverse the genders in this case and I think we would have seen a custodial sentence:

Female teacher who had 2-year affair with 14-year-old student is spared jail

Tuesday, Oct 14 2014 WRITTEN BY Olivia-Anne Cleary

32-year-old received a suspended sentence

http://www.bestdaily.co.uk/your-life/news/a603479/female-teacher-who-had-2-year-affair-with-14-year-old-student-is-spared-jail.html

tritium

iptba wrote: »

Reverse the genders in this case and I think we would have seen a custodial sentence:

From the judge in this case:Judge Austin Stotan stated that although the boy was underage, he was a 'willing' participant in the affair:

Oh well that's OK then! Because a 14 year old can give informed consent right. I think there are a few male ex-teachers in prison who should be calling up their lawyer and citing precedent. I note depression and mental illness was also offered as the (standard) mitigating factor

py2006

iptba wrote: »

Reverse the genders in this case and I think we would have seen a custodial sentence:

Its never called an 'affair' too when the genders are reversed.

iptba

(Not a recommendation)

From the Washington Post website:

We should stop putting women in jail. For anything

By Patricia O'Brien November 6
Patricia O'Brien is an associate professor at the Jane Addams College of Social Work at University of Illinois at Chicago.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/11/06/we-should-stop-putting-women-in-jail-for-anything/

The argument is actually quite straightforward: There are far fewer women in prison than men to start with — women make up just 7 percent of the prison population. This means that these women are disproportionately affected by a system designed for men.

We don't tend to hear this in other situations if the genders are reversed e.g. domestic violence.

JRant

iptba wrote: »

(Not a recommendation)

From the Washington Post website:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/11/06/we-should-stop-putting-women-in-jail-for-anything/


We don't tend to hear this in other situations if the genders are reversed e.g. domestic violence.

I would agree wholeheartedly with her if she replaced 'women' with 'people' in her thinking.

Unfortunately she can't seem to see past her own guff, like this;
"The case for closing women’s prisons is built on the experiences of formerly incarcerated women and activists who recognize that women who are mothers and community builders can find their way forward when they respected and supported. "
Ex-cons disagreeing with incarceration shocker!!

I do wonder what sort of reaction a piece like this would receive if 'woman' was replaced with 'white male'. After all they are a minority in American prisons and that seems to be the main reason put forth for not incarcerating someone.

laoch na mona

we could go full anarchist and close all prisons :P

that article is good if you read women as people, it points out a lot of the flaws in the prison system.

I could talk about the failings of the criminal justice system for hours, but in an effort to stay on topic I'll just say this, women do seem to get shorter sentences, I would be inclined to believe a structural argument as to why this is the case ( the same way structural causes explain the higher rate of black inmate in America, or inmates from lower socio economic backgrounds throughout the world). That is to say the different between gender roles in society are probably the cause.

abit of info from the UK (we can assume it's much the same here) "Fewer than 1% of all children in England are in care, but looked after children make up 30% of boys and 44% of girls in custody" from this link http://www.prisonreformtrust.org.uk/Portals/0/Documents/Prisonthefacts.pdf

so regardless of gender poor/vulnerable people are much more likely to go to jail

on page four of that document they break down the statistics for women, if your interested

iptba

JRant wrote: »

I do wonder what sort of reaction a piece like this would receive if 'woman' was replaced with 'white male'. After all they are a minority in American prisons and that seems to be the main reason put forth for not incarcerating someone.

Also, women are in segregated (women-only) jails. That's very different (much more preferable) from white men who are in unsegregated jails.

laoch na mona

iptba wrote: »

Also, women are in segregated (women-only) jails. That's very different (much more preferable) from white men who are in unsegregated jails.

the straight white man, the truly oppressed in society :P

iptba

laoch na mona wrote: »

the straight white man, the truly oppressed in society :P

Sociology which tries to appear like a science but where some answers (and thoughts) are right, or wrong, a priori.

iptba

UK Prisoners – The Genders Compared
http://mra-uk.co.uk/?p=215

Blogger has dug in to the statistics to see why 20 times as many women as men are in jail.

Cookie_Monster

iptba wrote: »

Blogger has dug in to the statistics to see why 20 times as many women as men are in jail.

er, 20 times as many men than women!

interesting reading all the same

feargale

I offer you part of a post from a thread opened today called " Now you're talking - to a Prison Officer." Omackeral is a prison officer:

Reply to thread

Omackeral wrote: »

The Dochas Center ie Mountjoy Females could be compared to a Travelodge in all honesty. For some perspective, it referred to not as a prison but a 'center'. The inmates are called 'women' rather than prisoners and they reside in a 'room' of a 'house' rather than a cell on a landing. All rooms have their own showers and TV's and here's the most surprising fact, the women have their own keys during the day.

iptba

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

er, 20 times as many men than women!

interesting reading all the same

Oops. And I seem to have passed the deadline to change it (unless a nice mod will do it for me)

Liam McPoyle

Female teacher spared jail time for a 2 year affair that started when the male was 14.

Her defence lawyer asked for a lenient sentence on account of his client's "struggle with mental illness and depression."

Well thats alright then, isnt it.:rolleyes:

py2006

Business Cat wrote: »

Female teacher spared jail time for a 2 year affair that started when the male was 14.



Well thats alright then, isnt it.:rolleyes:

They always use the term, 'affair', when referring to a women who sexually abuses a minor.

iptba

Back in 2008, a women-only meeting was arranged for Oireachtas members to discuss with Baroness Corston the sentencing of female prisoners:

This week, we are fortunate to receive a visit from Baroness Jean Corston from the British House of L[817]ords who produced a very radical report last year on women in prison and who recommended, after a very thorough review, that prison places for women should essentially be abolished and that there should just be a small number of small detention units for women. Otherwise, alternative sanctions should be used. We could very much learn from the lessons of that report.

I am happy to say that Baroness Corston will be visiting Leinster House on Thursday. Deputy Mary O’Rourke and I are hosting a meeting with her for all women Members of the Oireachtas. I am sorry that we cannot invite any male colleagues interested in this issue to the briefing with Baroness Corston.

Senator David Norris: Why not?

Senator Ivana Bacik: I would be happy to meet them to discuss the issues at another time.

The Jesuit Centre for Faith and Justice will also host a seminar on Thursday evening on the future of women’s imprisonment. This is an issue which we could very usefully debate in this House and could lead the way in calling for a critical review of women’s imprisonment, as Baroness Corston has done in Great Britain.

http://mra-uk.co.uk/?p=226

A men's human rights activist has done a critique of the report here: http://mra-uk.co.uk/?p=226

Absoluvely

Case here where a false accuser was sentenced to 6 years in prison for accusing 4 men of rape after hooking up with each of them in different parts of the UK.

Worcester News reported that as a result of the false allegations, one of the accused men contemplated suicide and another took an overdose, of which he survived.

Initially denying the allegations, Wixey eventually pleaded guilty to all charges on November 18.

Wixey was sentenced to six years, a reduced sentence from eight years due to his decision to plead guilty.

Going by the information in the article, it looks like a long (by today's standards) yet proportionate sentence, so well done to the judge.

But I can't help but feel that that wouldn't've been the case had Wixey been a vulnerable woman, rather than a “troubled man”, as the judge described him. Also, I wonder if anyone argued that a prison sentence would be unsuitable for Mark Wixey because it would deter genuine rape victims from reporting - out of fear that they could be imprisoned if the accusations were not proven.

Link

pockets3d

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/nurse-faked-having-baby-by-borrowing-friends-child-30790190.html

Female nurse walks free after faking birth certs and "borrowing" babies in order to scam a man into buying her a car and building her a house!
Surely she should be fired and sectioned at least ?

iptba

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2803590/Totally-perverted-couple-got-15-year-old-babysitter-high-meow-meow-forced-having-sex-jailed.html

'Totally perverted' couple who got 15-year-old babysitter high on meow-meow and forced him into having sex are jailed
•Nicola Mason had sex with boy while partner John Ford watched, court told
•Court told the 15-year-old was offered drugs by the 'totally perverted' couple
•Mason, 25, jailed for three years and John Ford, 47, for four-and-a-half years
•Ford had pleaded not guilty to inciting sexual activity and she had denied sexual activity with a child
•But Judge Rhys Rowlands told the couple 'a jury saw through your lies'

By Julian Robinson for MailOnline

October 22, 2014

Seems odd to me that she would get a lighter sentence given she was the one that actually had sex with the underage person. Put another way, I would be surprised if a man had sex with an underage girl while his partner watched, that she would get the longer sentence.

goose2005

laoch na mona wrote: »

the straight white man, the truly oppressed in society :P

In some prisons they are. After all, the main reason for segregating women prisoners from men is to protect the women from rape. Black-on-white rape is extremely prevalent in US prisons and one could argue for segregation on the same principle. http://www.justdetention.org/pdf/knowles2.pdf

Mike747

goose2005 wrote: »

In some prisons they are. After all, the main reason for segregating women prisoners from men is to protect the women from rape. Black-on-white rape is extremely prevalent in US prisons and one could argue for segregation on the same principle. http://www.justdetention.org/pdf/knowles2.pdf

Absolutely American prisons should be segregated. If you're white you'll probably be raped. There's a reasons white gangs like the Aryan Brotherhood exist.

Pawwed Rig

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2997548/Women-tortured-man-burning-hair-tongs-cigarette-lighter-genitals-like-scene-Reservoir-Dogs-dated-three-people-once.html

Abduction, imprisonment, torture? No problem Off you go now.

iptba

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2997548/Women-tortured-man-burning-hair-tongs-cigarette-lighter-genitals-like-scene-Reservoir-Dogs-dated-three-people-once.html

Abduction, imprisonment, torture? No problem Off you go now.

One of the four was sent to jail ... the man* (not the male victim).

*he did commit other offences too

---

Laura Addy, for Earles, said her client had severe mental health issues and was under Teale's spell.

She was 47, he was 27.

ThunbergsAreGo

That is terrifying

Pawwed Rig

There is a thread in AH about it http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057398349

Heisman

Poor women eh? "We need more equality!!"

I don't hear any feminists campaigning for equality here.