Danske bank to close retail customer accounts

yop

Bobblehead Panda wrote: »

Whose error is it if I copied and pasted from the page and it didn't work.

User error,

in ability to copy and paste

ABC101

yop wrote: »

Ok, got this from the ombudsman

Much appreciated.. good on ya man!!

clint_silver

hold on,
danske say
"we danske, are doing something to customers accounts"
ombudsman says
"dankse said theyre doing something to customers accounts"

the ombudsman hasnt commented that what that thing is is actually doable. theyve just repeated what danske said in the first place.

clint_silver

Bobblehead Panda wrote: »

Nope, tried that too. Didn't work.

Edit: Weird, just tried it again and it worked.

same here, searched multiple ways, retried again and now and it comes up.

methinks someone added a few words to the search tag!!!!:p:p:p:p:p

kennM

yop wrote: »

In my game, its called "User error"

Such a harsh way of putting it... I've always preferred the old saying "Problem exists between chair and keyboard"

jmcc99_98

Ok, for those of you who are interested....

I have a credit card with Danske with a hefty 4k balance on it. I spoke with Danske today and they confirmed that if you do not pay off the complete balance on the 25th April the balance will automatically transfer to the 2 year repayment option. You will be sent a schedule of payments and you pay it off each month. The rate will be 11.5%

Entering into this arrangement will in no way affect your credit rating. It will be the same as any other debt you have owing, once it is being serviced as per the schedule then it will not have any adverse affect on your credit rating. You can of course pay it off early without penalty.

sandycove123

yop wrote: »

Ok, got this from the ombudsman

Yop,

I got the same reply from the Central Bank.

It suggests going to the ombudsman

"If you are not happy with the response you receive you are entitled to escalate your complaint to the Financial Services Ombudsman (FSO), who has the statutory powers to investigate complaints against financial services providers. Please be aware that the FSO will only consider a case once the internal complaints procedure within the firm concerned has been followed. You can find further information about the FSO at www.financialombudsman.ie"

Danske are claiming that they are in line with the general terms and conditions of the offset mortgage.

"The letters issued provide customers with two months’ notice of the closure of their current or savings account(s) which may form part of an Offset Portfolio, in line with the general terms and conditions. The general terms and conditions provide for termination in the manner which the Bank is notifying and implementing"

Danske are offering the 1% reduction across the Board for the offset which seems an unfair way to approach it as the people with the higher offsets get hit the most.


"The usage of the offset option varies between customers. The mailing confirms that the Bank will reduce the rate by 1% on all offset mortgages regardless of the extent to which the offset option was utilised by the customer. This reduction in rate will be applicable to fixed or variable offset mortgages. The vast majority of customers have variable rate offset products with no customers on a tracker rate for this product."

sandycove123

Hi Ryaned,

Can your solicitor point out exactly how Danske are in "breach of contract" as according to the official statement from Danske, they comply with the general terms and conditions. Like you I stand to lose a lot from this as we have currently 95% offset.

"The letters issued provide customers with two months’ notice of the closure of their current or savings account(s) which may form part of an Offset Portfolio, in line with the general terms and conditions. The general terms and conditions provide for termination in the manner which the Bank is notifying and implementing"

Ryaned40 wrote: »

Hi guys, I have made official complaint to danske bank about closing savings account and current account which is offset against my mortgage! Also sent letter to financial regulator explaining the situation and that there is little time waiting around for reply from bank as we only have 2 to 3 months to sort it out. No matter who holds offset mortgage with danske bank and no matter if you have 50% or 10% offset against mortgage the bank is breaking the contract with you and they are in breach of not adhering to it.
If we all hang in there and group together it will be better for all of us! In my case I have 65% offset and the 1% drop in rate is useless and of course once you agree to it they will simply raise it to what ever they want to! you can be sure of that!!! They are chancing their arm and they know well that they are in breach of contract if they force it on us. I am waiting for their reply to see what they are going to offer me ( if anything at all )! I also joined Facebook page that was set up and placed a few comments there, 13 joined so far but we need more!!!
If we don't fight this they will walk all over us one by one, if we all hang in and complain we might get a good outcome, I got advice from a solicitor and he says that the bank are in breach of contract and that they have no right to close these accounts! They can't change terms of contract to suit themselves ! He thinks that the 1% is just a feeler to see if people accept it and that other offers will probably come down the line depending on your position within the offset . ie(% that is offset) best of luck everyone and please sign up, it's in all our benefits to do so!
Will post reply from bank when or if I receive one!!

sandycove123

Ryaned40 wrote: »

Terms and conditions of offset mortgage
Termination
Subject to section 4 of general terms and conditions which you can find on danske bank website!
It states that you have to give them 1 months notice to close and they have to give you 2 months notice!! They are talking about the whole mortgage,savings and current account closure not just current and savings accounts! They don't state individual accounts because offset is all one account!

This does not differentiate between general accounts and accounts within an offset portfolio, so is it a breach of contract?

Section 2.3 of the Special Terms and Conditions for Offset mortgages states

"A minimum of one Offset Account is required in addition to the Offset Mortgage Account(s) in order to continue Offsetting Arrangements. In the event of closure of any Offset Accounts where the only remaining Offset Account is the Offset Mortgage Account, you will be required to transfer your mortgage to an alternative Mortgage offering"

Does this mean that they can also terminate the mortgage account in line with their terms and conditions?

yop

Its from my own point of view lads a shocking reply from the 2 authorities within Ireland who are there to protect us, but I am not overly surprised.

Without their support are we only a little can for them to kick

Ryaned40

Hi sandycove123, what my solicitor is stating is that the terms and conditions provide for closure of two months notice from bank but it does not state part closure ie (they are not closing the mortgage but just the accounts linked to it)
He thinks that the t&c's state CLOSURE that's it, no mention of part closure !!
When we took offset mortgage out the current and savings accounts came with it, we did not have to open these accounts separately! Main reason being is that it's all part of the offset !!! Also the bank is changing our mortgage from offset to standard variable rate, they can't do that,I only took out offset and I am not changing to anything else! Offset means offset !!!!!

yop

Ryaned40 wrote: »

Hi sandycove123, what my solicitor is stating is that the terms and conditions provide for closure of two months notice from bank but it does not state part closure ie (they are not closing the mortgage but just the accounts linked to it)
He thinks that the t&c's state CLOSURE that's it, no mention of part closure !!
When we took offset mortgage out the current and savings accounts came with it, we did not have to open these accounts separately! Main reason being is that it's all part of the offset !!! Also the bank is changing our mortgage from offset to standard variable rate, they can't do that,I only took out offset and I am not changing to anything else! Offset means offset !!!!!

Im still waiting back from my own solicitor on this, but does your definitely think we have a case?

Ryaned40

yop wrote: »

Im still waiting back from my own solicitor on this, but does your definitely think we have a case?

To be honest he looked over the contract and advised me in general terms but if the reply from danske is not good I will go to him and look into it deeper! In my own opinion look at the tracker mortgages , the banks can't take them away even though they are loosing money because it's a contract so how on earth can danske change ours without consent !

Ryaned40

sandycove123 wrote: »

This does not differentiate between general accounts and accounts within an offset portfolio, so is it a breach of contract?

Section 2.3 of the Special Terms and Conditions for Offset mortgages states

"A minimum of one Offset Account is required in addition to the Offset Mortgage Account(s) in order to continue Offsetting Arrangements. In the event of closure of any Offset Accounts where the only remaining Offset Account is the Offset Mortgage Account, you will be required to transfer your mortgage to an alternative Mortgage offering"

Does this mean that they can also terminate the mortgage account in line with their terms and conditions?

Ya they can terminate the mortgage account with 2 months notice but not part closures

Ryaned40

Have you noticed that in the letters for offset that everything is closing in April but that the current account is not closed till May ! Wonder why ?

earlyapex

yop wrote: »

Its from my own point of view lads a shocking reply from the 2 authorities within Ireland who are there to protect us, but I am not overly surprised.

Without their support are we only a little can for them to kick

I got the very same reply word for word from the central bank today.
It is like they didn't bother reading what I had to say, just copy&paste from a Dankse script.
Are they sponsored by Danske now?

They didn't answer my question regarding the legality of what they intend to do, separating the mortgage product from feeder account.

dolallyoh

Its clearly not their function to do anything in our interest. They just ask for a statement and say here is the statement.

So next steps - ignore the glib response and see what the bank do to the complaints.

Then when you have the official bank reply proceed with ombudsman complaint.

As already pointed out, there is no difference between our situation and those with tracker mortgages except maybe politics. They are all mortgage agreements with NIB written on the letterheads.

Voodoo_rasher

Nowhere in Danske bank literature does it say that they are closing the

on-line accounts. Well I received the closure forms a good while back; did

not complet, send them in , did not close it down on the wbsite as they' d like me to.

Has anyone ignored their instructions post-ultimatum day and find that their online a/cs are still operable, thanks.

ABC101

Given the fact that there are very few Offset mortgage account holders.... it is possible that Danske are attempting to "chance their arm" on this one.

From reading the posts... I am coming to the conclusion... that they are changing the Offset to a standard variable rate mortgage.

It's not as if they are closing the current accounts and keeping the Offset at 3.x%...

It would appear that they are closing the current accounts and all other accounts..... and changing the Offset to a SVR mortgage which is at 3.x%

Even if the 1% reduction is a good deal for some or most (apart from those who are offsetting large amounts i.e. 50% +)... for how long will the 3.x% rate remain at 3.x%?

I mean Europe is sort of muddling through its crisis... the ECB is not going to lower rates... rates are only going to go one way within the next few months or year.... and that's up.

AlexisM

Voodoo_rasher wrote: »

Nowhere in Danske bank literature does it say that they are closing the on-line accounts.

They don't have online accounts (except maybe the esaver one). They have accounts with eBanking facilities. The mortgage page and the savings a/c page both say that eBanking services will terminate 1 December 2014 and statements thereafter will be paper ones in the post. So you may still be able to access your eBanking to view your zeroed accounts.

dirtyblaster

Brilliant stuff Rayned40, I to have sent in my letter to the ombudsman's financial services and to Danske. Not letting it go, they cannot just ditch us and the 1% is a real joke. will look for the facebook page and sign up there as well. Again well done and will keep in touch.

Pablo Sanchez

From the T+C's posted above, i would think it clearly states that they are within their rights to change people away from the offset product if the current account is closing, subject to providing two months notice.

And you need to fully exhaust the complaints process with Danske before the ombudsman will take complaints.

dolallyoh

Charlie Weston in today's Independent.

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/charlie-weston-tracker-swap-plan-will-free-up-family-houses-30046117.html

CONTRACTS

Some banks are known to have engaged lawyers to look at wriggling out of tracker contracts. The lawyers said this could not be done.

And separately, Ulster Bank lobbied the Central Bank to be allowed to take trackers off those in arrears. The Central Bank said no dice.

cdev

Feeder wrote: »

...

Looks to me as if the current a/c will be closing, I was wondering why I hadn't got any TRS yet this year, has anyone else for that matter?

...

I've also noticed that there's been no TRS credited yet this year.

I've just finished writing my complaint letter to Danske about the attempt to close these accounts.

I've also queried why they appear to be in breach of section 10.4 of my Loan Agreement:

“...a tax relief at source ('TRS') refund will be given to a borrower on each occasion that a repayment of interest is made on a qualifying mortgage or loan account....”

Thoie

My TRS has been showing up.

.BrianJM

Pablo Sanchez wrote: »

And you need to fully exhaust the complaints process with Danske before the ombudsman will take complaints.

During the process of complaining in the correct manner Danskë can take the maximum time permitted to respond.
Your account(s) is likely to be closed before a mutually acceptable solution can be reached.
Any ideas?
-
Is it possible that once you register a complaint, they will have to keep the account open until the complaint is resolved?

Pablo Sanchez

Auld-Yin wrote: »

Is it possible that once you register a complaint, they will have to keep the account open until the complaint is resolved?

Unfortunately i dont think so, but that said, this is a pretty unique situation (ie the company is basically withdrawing personal customer product altogether), so worth asking the ombudsman's office if there is any precedent.

Ultimately should a complaint be upheld i would imagine it would apply to all affected customers and the ombudsman can rule that restitution take place, it might be after the account has closed but that would be reflected in any payment that Danske would need to provide the customer.

posiedon_regs

I've just unearthed my original mortgage agreement with NIB from early 2006. It consists of both a signed "side letter" and a T&Cs document. The letter is particularly interesting:

"Termination:
We will ensure when removing an Account from an Offset Portfolio that Validation will take place to ensure that the account is not the last Mortgage Account or linked Account causing an unwanted termination of the Offset Portfolio. In the event that an Offset Portfolio is closed, then the remaining Offset Account(s) must be converted to an appropriate Current/Savings Account."

The first line of the above, signed by the bank (now Danske), would seem to me to be in direct contradiction to the letter received this week which is a statement that all of my offset accounts are being closed in April/May. The latter is not BTW an "offer" but simply a statement of intent. If Danske breach their previous legal undertakings they may by in breach of Irish Contract Law.

Unfortunately, the problems of offset mortgage holders are unlikely to make headlines on the independent.ie or Newstalk because they are too complex for readers/listeners to comprehend quickly and the numbers affected are relatively small. Also the Ombudsman is a toothless tiger due to the probable delays which Danske may choose to introduce. My intention is to seek legal advice, however, I believe Danske expect only a minority of customers to do so, thus saving them a considerable sum on compensation. Very clever indeed!

robbe

I'll be looking for mine (approx 2005) at the weekend and will post when I find it. The above does read contradictory to the statement regurgitated by the Central Bank - I agree with the above poster in that I didn't sign for a variable mortgage, I signed for an offset.....made a complaint to Danske but have only received notification that it has been passed to the complaints team.

dolallyoh

posiedon_regs wrote: »

I've just unearthed my original mortgage agreement with NIB from early 2006. It consists of both a signed "side letter" and a T&Cs document. The letter is particularly interesting:

"Termination:
We will ensure when removing an Account from an Offset Portfolio that Validation will take place to ensure that the account is not the last Mortgage Account or linked Account causing an unwanted termination of the Offset Portfolio. In the event that an Offset Portfolio is closed, then the remaining Offset Account(s) must be converted to an appropriate Current/Savings Account."

The first line of the above, signed by the bank (now Danske), would seem to me to be in direct contradiction to the letter received this week which is a statement that all of my offset accounts are being closed in April/May. The latter is not BTW an "offer" but simply a statement of intent. If Danske breach their previous legal undertakings they may by in breach of Irish Contract Law.

Unfortunately, the problems of offset mortgage holders are unlikely to make headlines on the independent.ie or Newstalk because they are too complex for readers/listeners to comprehend quickly and the numbers affected are relatively small. Also the Ombudsman is a toothless tiger due to the probable delays which Danske may choose to introduce. My intention is to seek legal advice, however, I believe Danske expect only a minority of customers to do so, thus saving them a considerable sum on compensation. Very clever indeed!

I, and others, have the exact same contract / side letter. (You could read back a few pages). Nothing clever about trying to renege a contract.