Danske bank to close retail customer accounts

cathk

Hi, I have a Dankse Bank offset, got legal advice 2 weeks ago, my solicitor said we have a good case will win in the High Court

cathk

yop wrote: »

Padraic
Thanks for the update, so the CB aren't interested then in this? What is it going to take to get them interested?

The ombudsman we each have to deal with individually is that correct?
Since Danske have responded with the standard "I'll be back" response, we have to wait though for them to come back before we can go to the ombudsman?


What do we do with our accounts though is a question I would ask

What would you advice people to do.

Thanks for all your work on this.

Hi, I also have a Danske Bank offset mortgage, have sought legal advice, solicitor said we have a case & will win in the High Court

handlemaster

cathk wrote: »

Hi, I also have a Danske Bank offset mortgage, have sought legal advice, solicitor said we have a case & will win in the High Court

And WILL WIN !! Solicitor will win either way !

josip

What would typical High Court Costs for this be, if the case isn't successful?
Can the case be taken collectively all will the first case taker bear all the risk?

chughes

I have a letter dated 21 February 2014 telling me that my credit card account is to be terminated on 25 April 2014.


Today I received in the post a new credit card to replace my old one which expires at the end of April 2014.


It's at times like this you think WTF??
Being given a replacement card while the current one is due to expire after the account termination date just doesn't make sense.


It's a bit being given the breakfast menu on the Titanic after the iceberg hit.

DiscoFever

chughes wrote: »

I have a letter dated 21 February 2014 telling me that my credit card account is to be terminated on 25 April 2014.


Today I received in the post a new credit card to replace my old one which expires at the end of April 2014.


It's at times like this you think WTF??
Being given a replacement card while the current one is due to expire after the account termination date just doesn't make sense.


It's a bit being given the breakfast menu on the Titanic after the iceberg hit.

Thats crazy, I suppose they will argue card issue is automatic or that another department sends them out - but its mad all the same!

dolallyoh

Just got my response to my official complaint. It says they can shut down the accounts as per T and C attached. the T and C are dated 15/11/2012 and 4/11/2013 Danske Bank branded.

"There is no contractual right for customers to receive the benefits of the offset arrangement after termination of related current / savings accounts"

I'd point out here that the related accounts were in fact clearly labelled "offset" accounts.

So I will fire off my ombudsman thing asap.

posiedon_regs

dolallyoh wrote: »

Just got my response to my official complaint. It says they can shut down the accounts as per T and C attached. the T and C are dated 15/11/2012 and 4/11/2013 Danske Bank branded.

"There is no contractual right for customers to receive the benefits of the offset arrangement after termination of related current / savings accounts"

I'd point out here that the related accounts were in fact clearly labelled "offset" accounts.

So I will fire off my ombudsman thing asap.

So the Offset Portfolio, which is defined to include at least both a mortgage account and one linked account, is being terminated in clear violation of the original mortgage agreement.

I checked my online records (everything downloaded) and it seems to me that we didn't receive any electronic or paper notification of new T&Cs in either 2012 or 2013. Best of luck with the FSO.

kennM

dolallyoh wrote: »

Just got my response to my official complaint. It says they can shut down the accounts as per T and C attached. the T and C are dated 15/11/2012 and 4/11/2013 Danske Bank branded.

"There is no contractual right for customers to receive the benefits of the offset arrangement after termination of related current / savings accounts"

I'd point out here that the related accounts were in fact clearly labelled "offset" accounts.

So I will fire off my ombudsman thing asap.

I suspect I won't be far behind you.... those 20 days are ticking by for me, expecting the response any day now. In parallel I'm going to ask Danske to produce proof that I accept their revised terms and conditions.

ABC101

Well my letter arrived a few days ago...I have until 3rd week of May.

I remember back in November 2012... or was it November 2011 when I switched to the Prestige package....

I had to sign paperwork then... and I also opened up a custody account at that time... so there was paperwork for that too.

Then some months later... as I previously wrote in an earlier post... there was changes to the T&C otherwise I could not log on at all.

Ironically.... the chap who I worked with in setting up the Prestige package and Custody account lost his job a few weeks later. That was back in 2012 I think.

It seems Danske had their withdrawal from Ireland planned YEARS AGO... and by getting people to change onto new products i.e. Prestige accounts they were able to renegotiate their commitments to their legacy products. Not sure how legal it is...

Anyway... at least some answers are arriving back, and thanks to all for their feedback.

I'm going to miss Danske online banking a huge amount. The alternative Irish Banks have NO COMPREHENSION as to what makes a good online banking facility, it is medieval in comparison. But then why should they care too much... the Irish will accept any old slop served up to them.

If Ireland does rebound economically... and Danske do make a reentry into Irish retail banking... I would go back to them.

RainyDay

cathk wrote: »

Hi, I also have a Danske Bank offset mortgage, have sought legal advice, solicitor said we have a case & will win in the High Court

Is the solicitor confident enough to guarantee that you won't have to pay his fees if you lose? Or worse still, that you won't have to pay the other side's fees?

josip

RainyDay wrote: »

Is the solicitor confident enough to guarantee that you won't have to pay his fees if you lose? Or worse still, that you won't have to pay the other side's fees?

semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit

dirtyblaster

got letter today, Danske not interesed. what if we all in the offset mortgage situation hired a solictor to act for us all? Do you think we could get a show of hands cause the ombudsman is without a shadow of a doubt on their side!, they are breaking the innital contract as our accounts are linked to the mortgage.

Anyone interested?

posiedon_regs

ABC101 wrote: »

Well my letter arrived a few days ago...I have until 3rd week of May.

I remember back in November 2012... or was it November 2011 when I switched to the Prestige package....

I had to sign paperwork then... and I also opened up a custody account at that time... so there was paperwork for that too.

Then some months later... as I previously wrote in an earlier post... there was changes to the T&C otherwise I could not log on at all.

Ironically.... the chap who I worked with in setting up the Prestige package and Custody account lost his job a few weeks later. That was back in 2012 I think.

It seems Danske had their withdrawal from Ireland planned YEARS AGO... and by getting people to change onto new products i.e. Prestige accounts they were able to renegotiate their commitments to their legacy products. Not sure how legal it is...

Anyway... at least some answers are arriving back, and thanks to all for their feedback.

I'm going to miss Danske online banking a huge amount. The alternative Irish Banks have NO COMPREHENSION as to what makes a good online banking facility, it is medieval in comparison. But then why should they care too much... the Irish will accept any old slop served up to them.

If Ireland does rebound economically... and Danske do make a reentry into Irish retail banking... I would go back to them.

An important point here is that our original mortgage documentation clearly states that the mortgage agreement with the bank consists of FOUR items:
- Mortgage Facility Letter
- Side Letter
- Mortgage Terms & Conditions
- How We Use Personal Information Form

Therefore, even if customers voluntarily gave up all of their account T&Cs during 2011/12 during the transition to the Prestige Account / online banking changes, the mortgage agreement would not seem to permit termination due to the existence of the Side Letter.

The original mortgage agreement does not preclude the bank from closing any offset account - however, no closure may result in the unwanted termination of the Offset Portfolio. In this sense, the T&Cs of the offset current/savings/Prestige accounts seem irrelevant.

dolallyoh

ABC101 wrote: »

Well my letter arrived a few days ago...I have until 3rd week of May.

I remember back in November 2012... or was it November 2011 when I switched to the Prestige package....

I had to sign paperwork then... and I also opened up a custody account at that time... so there was paperwork for that too.

Then some months later... as I previously wrote in an earlier post... there was changes to the T&C otherwise I could not log on at all.

Ironically.... the chap who I worked with in setting up the Prestige package and Custody account lost his job a few weeks later. That was back in 2012 I think.

It seems Danske had their withdrawal from Ireland planned YEARS AGO... and by getting people to change onto new products i.e. Prestige accounts they were able to renegotiate their commitments to their legacy products. Not sure how legal it is...

Anyway... at least some answers are arriving back, and thanks to all for their feedback.

I'm going to miss Danske online banking a huge amount. The alternative Irish Banks have NO COMPREHENSION as to what makes a good online banking facility, it is medieval in comparison. But then why should they care too much... the Irish will accept any old slop served up to them.

If Ireland does rebound economically... and Danske do make a reentry into Irish retail banking... I would go back to them.

Fair play. Can I interest you in some magic beans ?

dolallyoh

I just reread my docs before getting ready for the appeal.

My agreement =

1. side letter
2. offset mortgage facility letter
3. T and C
4. how we use info

Nothing in the T and C to indicate they can pull out of the agreement.

I have a pamphlet (no date on it, its just in my pile o paper) from the bank with NIB branding saying they can pull out of offset agreement with 30 days notice but this isn't in my mortgage T and C.

So - sending the appeal in today. I suspect they have screwed it up from a legal point of view, live by the sword and die by it.

kennM

dolallyoh wrote: »

I just reread my docs before getting ready for the appeal.

My agreement =

1. side letter
2. offset mortgage facility letter
3. T and C
4. how we use info

Nothing in the T and C to indicate they can pull out of the agreement.

I have a pamphlet (no date on it, its just in my pile o paper) from the bank with NIB branding saying they can pull out of offset agreement with 30 days notice but this isn't in my mortgage T and C.

So - sending the appeal in today. I suspect they have screwed it up from a legal point of view, live by the sword and die by it.

GREAT WORK!!! I'll largely use your research to review my documentation and structure my complaint with the Ombudsman when my PFO letter arrives.

kennM

kennM wrote: »

GREAT WORK!!! I'll largely use your research to review my documentation and structure my complaint with the Ombudsman when my PFO letter arrives.

BTW - I'd be pretty sure they'll be following this thread with interest too : )

josip

kennM wrote: »

BTW - I'd be pretty sure they'll be following this thread with interest too : )

Do you think so? I was considering that also but there's hardly anyone left working for them here now, and given that most of the staff will bemade redundant, what would be the incentive to get the upper hand for a bank that you wont work for very soon?

handlemaster

Who has asked if they are offering deals recently ??

Bumby

With regard to Offset-Mortgages the problem here is that as each individual's offset account becomes due for closure the bank will simply send you the funds in the account, then close it with the remaining mortgage reverting to a standard variable. Once that's done the individual has little chance of reversing the bank's action short of securing a court injunction beforehand or instigating expensive legal proceedings afterwards.

A group process is therefore required to obtain a general court injunction, probably using Mr. Kissane, but he has to be instructed and paid by a number of unorganised individuals rapidly running out of time so how realistic is that going to be?

Danske Bank are going to brazen this out, divide and conquer and shamefully exit stage left!

Sir Chops

Bumby wrote: »

With regard to Offset-Mortgages the problem here is that as each individual's offset account becomes due for closure the bank will simply send you the funds in the account, then close it with the remaining mortgage reverting to a standard variable. Once that's done the individual has little chance of reversing the bank's action short of securing a court injunction beforehand or instigating expensive legal proceedings afterwards.

A group process is therefore required to obtain a general court injunction, probably using Mr. Kissane, but he has to be instructed and paid by a number of unorganised individuals rapidly running out of time so how realistic is that going to be?

Danske Bank are going to brazen this out, divide and conquer and shamefully exit stage left!

That's what will happen.

pjproby

I do not have a mortgage with Danske but opened a new current account with KBC. The changeover date was 13/02/2013. It is a nightmare
to change banks. Danske notified that they transferred the direct debits to KBC and I am sure they did but that is no guarantee that the company issuing the DD will issue it to the correct bank. The prize bond company wrote to say I would need to sign new forms and provide ID again. i abandoned that. Three rang last week complaining of no payment and clearly they were on the verge of disconnecting me. UPC and Tesco credit card similiarly. Two other DDs have not appeared so waiting for the phone call from them.The idea that transferring banks is easy is nonsense. KBC online is harmless compared to Danske and their mobile app is merely a balance checker.

kennM

Bumby wrote: »

With regard to Offset-Mortgages the problem here is that as each individual's offset account becomes due for closure the bank will simply send you the funds in the account, then close it with the remaining mortgage reverting to a standard variable. Once that's done the individual has little chance of reversing the bank's action short of securing a court injunction beforehand or instigating expensive legal proceedings afterwards.

A group process is therefore required to obtain a general court injunction, probably using Mr. Kissane, but he has to be instructed and paid by a number of unorganised individuals rapidly running out of time so how realistic is that going to be?

Danske Bank are going to brazen this out, divide and conquer and shamefully exit stage left!

The majority of what you're saying is probably true... knowing banking systems etc. and they way they are typically built etc. there is likely other factors here. I would strongly suspect that your mortgage actually remains an offset type mortgage.... hence why they will NOT close the final account. I would suspect this triggers system issues with regards to connectivity to the offset mortgage. They are essentially removing the ability to bank with the accounts and leaving the balance at zero therefore removing the capability to benefit from using the account. Therefore they don't have to to provide cards, services, etc. that are typically associated to accounts.... essentially the main offset current account will remain dormant for the life of the mortgage (as Danske are proposing currently).

The reality is that the accounts will not be modified within the banking systems themselves. This presents too much risk which they probably don't have the resource/time/capacity (and possibly skills due to redundancies) to manage.

All we can do is go through the ombudsman for the moment. I'll be tabling a number of possible solutions to resolve issues but naturally it depends on how hard the ombudsman wants to pursue this issue.

Ryaned40

Hi all, I noticed that they have changed t&c on special t&c's for offset, 2.3 use to state that in the event of closure of current savings or any other acc linked to offset at least one acc will have to remain to offset the mortgage! Now they have changed it! Stating that you will be required to transfer your mortgage to another provider! That's bull****! They must have changed it recently, I stated clause 2.3 in an earlier post before it was changed page 32 I think

kennM

Ryaned40 wrote: »

Hi all, I noticed that they have changed t&c on special t&c's for offset, 2.3 use to state that in the event of closure of current savings or any other acc linked to offset at least one acc will have to remain to offset the mortgage! Now they have changed it! Stating that you will be required to transfer your mortgage to another provider! That's bull****! They must have changed it recently, I stated clause 2.3 in an earlier post before it was changed page 32 I think

They cannot change the T&Cs associated to a product without consent. The T&Cs associated to your mortgage are the ones you signed when you took out your mortgage. I'll be digging mine out and passing a copy of them along to the ombudsman with my complaint to highlight they behavior is not consistent with the T&Cs associated to our legally binding agreement. You can't simply change them on the basis that they no longer suit

Ryaned40

Hi kennM, I just notice it this evening, they sent me a copy in the post with t&c's printed out and the f***ers have changed 2.3 , it definitely stated that at least one acc has to remain open to offset the mortgage! Waiting for reply from fso now!

kennM

Ryaned40 wrote: »

Hi kennM, I just notice it this evening, they sent me a copy in the post with t&c's printed out and the f***ers have changed 2.3 , it definitely stated that at least one acc has to remain open to offset the mortgage! Waiting for reply from fso now!

Just be careful.... I'd say they are relying on a combination of (a) peoples ignorance/not being savy to cross reference supplied T&Cs (Which have been updated since original agreements were signed) (b) people not keeping original T&Cs supplied at time of mortgage signing (c) people not persevering to see it through to resolution.

Will it work for them???? Probably for the majority of cases.... personally I'm not satisfied with their proposal and they can't break T&Cs of contract because it no longer suits them.

Ryaned40

Just have to wait and see what ombudsman comes back with !

dolallyoh

Bumby wrote: »

With regard to Offset-Mortgages the problem here is that as each individual's offset account becomes due for closure the bank will simply send you the funds in the account, then close it with the remaining mortgage reverting to a standard variable. Once that's done the individual has little chance of reversing the bank's action short of securing a court injunction beforehand or instigating expensive legal proceedings afterwards.

A group process is therefore required to obtain a general court injunction, probably using Mr. Kissane, but he has to be instructed and paid by a number of unorganised individuals rapidly running out of time so how realistic is that going to be?

Danske Bank are going to brazen this out, divide and conquer and shamefully exit stage left!

Interesting first post. So you are saying the ombudsman has no power at all ?