Danske bank to close retail customer accounts

nicky5mx

They have to acknowledge your complaint within 10 working days (2 weeks). They then have 20 working days (4 weeks) to send you the official reply following their internal "investigation". In my case I had the official reply that we have done nothing wrong in about 4 weeks from the time I sent the official complaint. I would definately get on the phone to them and find out what is happening.

Bumby

Thanks for that.

Dave o D

Has anyone got a template for the wording of a complaint to the fso so as to make sure I convey my complaint correctly

yop

Dave o D wrote: »

Has anyone got a template for the wording of a complaint to the fso so as to make sure I convey my complaint correctly

Dave
There is an official complaint form, you can email them and ask them for one.

Bumby

The complaint form is available on the FSO website - just found it.

robbe

Received some correspondence from FSO yesterday noting that their remit does not extend beyond 6 years - thus effectively limiting a substantial part of the problem - the initial sale of a financial product on the premise that it would remain as envisaged. They can investigate whether Danske had a right to terminate the offset account but not whether this was consistent with the original terms and conditions/spirit of the product when sold. This is as per their website and the original terms of reference when they were set up. It doesn't make it any less galling tbh.

I still intend to proceed with the complaint but given the Central Bank have already, based on some quotes in this thread, said that Danske bank were acting within the code/law when they terminated the offset arrangements it makes me wonder if this isn't a colossal waste of time. Not sure when everyone else took out their mortgage but this could be an issue others will face should they choose to make a formal complaint. I'll update as I go along.

Bumby

On that basis it's seems that the FSO is not fit for purpose - it was put in place to protect the interests of the ordinary person and now it appears that it is running for cover on this particular issue and hoping that the matter will just all go away rather than tackle Banske head on regarding its disgraceful handling of the Offset Mortgage issue.



As individuals submitting our complaints to the FSO I fear it's becoming a lost cause.:mad:

yop

Wow, incredible that is the case, so what ever happened 6 years ago + they can't look at.... so Danske never signed a contract with us for our Offset product is almost what they are saying..... FFS

robbe

I had read their website and noted the 6 year limitation but as the original sale of the mortgage product is, I am contending, inextricably linked to the current issue I ignored the fact that the mortgage was sold outside the 6 year time period. If their scope is limited to - did Danske comply with their obligations in relation to the closure of the account as advised in Feb 2014 then it should be a pretty quick affair.....I'll have to see how it all plays out but I'm less hopeful considering the central banks position on the validity of closing the accounts is known.

Pablo Sanchez

Just to say that if you are unsatisfied with a decision by the FSOB, you are free to appeal it to the High Court.

yop

Pablo Sanchez wrote: »

Just to say that if you are unsatisfied with a decision by the FSOB, you are free to appeal it to the High Court.

But the high court would be an expensive route that so many of us couldn't afford.

Sir Chops

Sir Chops wrote: »

That's what will happen.

It should be no surprise

yop

Sir Chops wrote: »

It should be no surprise

replying to yourself?

dolallyoh

cathk wrote: »

We have been to FSO & all they can recommend is mediation, will have to speak to someone in the know again, 3 weeks to respond

Did FSO give you the 6 year thing ? How long have you had your mortgage?

@ Robbe - were you offered mediation ?

ABC101

Dear oh dear.... That is not good news, looks like the FSO has joined the long list of useless institutions which suck up taxpayers money.

I think it is ironic that if the householder was to unilaterally change some of the terms and conditions of the mortgage the bank would come down on them like a ton of bricks. But when the opposite happens....

dolallyoh

I got my mediation offer today. No mention so far of a 6 year limit.

to boot

The CB has agreed to investigate allegations that Danske bank is unilaterally altering their customers’ terms and conditions. I am collating any incidences of same if anyone has any more specific examples

caleb21

The CB has agreed to investigate allegations that Danske bank is unilaterally altering their customers’ terms and conditions. I am collating any incidences of same if anyone has any more specific examples

Hi I rang the CB today and they said as far as they were concerned Danske were compliant
However I am not convinced I have a LTV mortgage and the conditions are

Special Conditions
(a) You must maintain, for the duration of your loan, one of our Easy, Easy Plus or Prestige packages, if such package is not maintained by you we reserve the right to convert your LTV rate to our then applicable home loan rate (fixed or variable as the case may be);

Clause 6 (6.1)
Current Account
You are not obliged to maintain your general current account with us but, if you do not, you must maintain a separate current account with us to service the loan on our usual terms or such other terms as may be agreed. This account must be opened before the loan is drawn and maintained throughout the Period of Agreement.
Where your general current account is operated through any other bank or building society you must, prior to the drawdown of the loan, provide a standing order or direct debiting authority to us in such form as we may require.


I received a reply to my letter of complaint today and Danske have said they are closing my account
we can confirm under 4.1 of the General terms and conditions for all products and services we may terminate the Agreement between us and you at any time by giving you at least 2 months written notice.

How do the general terms and conditions usurp the Legally binding conditional clauses of a Mortgage contract

gijoo

caleb21 wrote: »

The CB has agreed to investigate allegations that Danske bank is unilaterally altering their customers’ terms and conditions. I am collating any incidences of same if anyone has any more specific examples

Hi I rang the CB today and they said as far as they were concerned Danske were compliant
However I am not convinced I have a LTV mortgage and the conditions are

Special Conditions
(a) You must maintain, for the duration of your loan, one of our Easy, Easy Plus or Prestige packages, if such package is not maintained by you we reserve the right to convert your LTV rate to our then applicable home loan rate (fixed or variable as the case may be);

Clause 6 (6.1)
Current Account
You are not obliged to maintain your general current account with us but, if you do not, you must maintain a separate current account with us to service the loan on our usual terms or such other terms as may be agreed. This account must be opened before the loan is drawn and maintained throughout the Period of Agreement.
Where your general current account is operated through any other bank or building society you must, prior to the drawdown of the loan, provide a standing order or direct debiting authority to us in such form as we may require.


I received a reply to my letter of complaint today and Danske have said they are closing my account
we can confirm under 4.1 of the General terms and conditions for all products and services we may terminate the Agreement between us and you at any time by giving you at least 2 months written notice.

How do the general terms and conditions usurp the Legally binding conditional clauses of a Mortgage contract

Others with LTV mortgages have received confirmation that the clause relating to the need to maintain a current account has been waived by Danske. Surely there is precedent already set here ?

Also those terms and conditions were dated late 2013 relating to 4.1, years after the mortgage agreement was signed.

robbe

dolallyoh wrote: »

Did FSO give you the 6 year thing ? How long have you had your mortgage?

@ Robbe - were you offered mediation ?

Hi,

Not offered mediation yet but I expect this will be the next step. The letter I received made reference to an aspect of my complaint which related to moving from an LTV tracker to the offset product on the clear understanding that the offset arrangement could reasonably have been expected to continue for the life of the mortgage. The letter requires me to confirm an acceptance of the limitation of the jurisdiction relating to the original sale of the mortgage product which took place > 6 years ago. It does say that it can however investigate the most recent difficulties and whether Danske are entitled to terminate the product. Quite how they intend to do this and not refer back to the original mortgage agreement is beyond me but I expect they want to ring fence any allegation of mis-selling which took place beyond their time limit.

To my mind the reasonable expectation that an offset mortgage would consist of a mortgage an account(s) which can be offset is inextricably linked to the document I signed back when I took the mortgage out but they are limited in their scope. Once I have confirmed my acceptance (what else can I do) then I anticipate progressing to the mediation stage. I'm not particularly optimistic about that given the position that Danske have adopted and their reluctance to engage (I have called the person Danske bank have named in their correspondence to deal with the complaint over a week ago and have yet to receive a response. Would appreciate if everyone else could post here as to how they get on in mediation (might save me some time).

yop

robbe wrote: »

Hi,

Not offered mediation yet but I expect this will be the next step. The letter I received made reference to an aspect of my complaint which related to moving from an LTV tracker to the offset product on the clear understanding that the offset arrangement could reasonably have been expected to continue for the life of the mortgage. The letter requires me to confirm an acceptance of the limitation of the jurisdiction relating to the original sale of the mortgage product which took place > 6 years ago. It does say that it can however investigate the most recent difficulties and whether Danske are entitled to terminate the product. Quite how they intend to do this and not refer back to the original mortgage agreement is beyond me but I expect they want to ring fence any allegation of mis-selling which took place beyond their time limit.

To my mind the reasonable expectation that an offset mortgage would consist of a mortgage an account(s) which can be offset is inextricably linked to the document I signed back when I took the mortgage out but they are limited in their scope. Once I have confirmed my acceptance (what else can I do) then I anticipate progressing to the mediation stage. I'm not particularly optimistic about that given the position that Danske have adopted and their reluctance to engage (I have called the person Danske bank have named in their correspondence to deal with the complaint over a week ago and have yet to receive a response. Would appreciate if everyone else could post here as to how they get on in mediation (might save me some time).

Ok so they are using the "we can't review it as its over 6 years" line with us all then.
I fear where all this is going now, so if they can't look back to original contract then we can now claim we never signed a contract.... then we will see if they ignore that also.... of course they won't. Farcical stuff.

I spoke to someone else yesterday, I am not naming the person as they are known to the public, but their take on it was this:

on the face of it repudiating a long term contract depending on how its worded. The FSO is doing its usual hiding behind the Statute of Limitations, but its offer of mediation is interesting, however what your story lacks is independent legal advice which might provide grounds to lodge an injunction although I suspect that NIB / Danske will have heavily lawyered its position. If there is a group, and its committed then a fighting fund might be possible to go at NIB for compensation, some solicitor firms love this kind of action but it all comes down to a legal reading of the original contract – if it allowed the bank an out, you’re goosed.

robbe

I tend to agree - the FSO position, while required to act within the terms/limitations of their statutory powers seem hamstrung by not acknowledging the terms of the original agreement. If it is simply a case of whether Danske complied with their obligations by notifying us of the closure in good time and the terms provided for in a general set of T&Cs issued a few years ago then unless they have ballsed that up procedurally they should be successful in defending a complaint.

The advice you received is similar to a financial journalist I spoke to - I'm sure a decent solicitor wouldn't refuse a case of this nature but I'd also be surprised if Danske acted unilaterally and without being sure of their legal grounds to terminate. Anyway - I'll keep going and update here when further developments occur.

caleb21

gijoo wrote: »

Others with LTV mortgages have received confirmation that the clause relating to the need to maintain a current account has been waived by Danske. Surely there is precedent already set here ?

Also those terms and conditions were dated late 2013 relating to 4.1, years after the mortgage agreement was signed.

yes I saw the post by niceoneted
"the closure of the current account does not in any way affect the terms and conditions of the ECB home rate loan account with Danske Bank. This condition now has been waived as we do not require current account with us as a part of the home loan account."

but this does not mention how it affects your LTV discount does it still apply for the life of the mortgage and what happens if Danske sell their loan book?

I have asked Danske to honour the original loan agreement which I believe is superior to 2013 T&C's

For clarity just read the special terms and conditions for LTV mortgages which came with your contract
ECB home loan rate is what Danske threaten to put you on when you fail to keep a current account
LTV rate is what you want to stay on at least thats how I read it.

Special Conditions
(a) You must maintain, for the duration of your loan, one of our Easy, Easy Plus or Prestige packages, if such package is not maintained by you we reserve the right to convert your LTV rate to our then applicable home loan rate (fixed or variable as the case may be);

has anybody received confirmation this LTV rate will not be affected

dolallyoh

Well IMO - The FSO could score an easy win here for us.

Surely its their entire raison d'etre.

If they abide by the 6 year thing then they shouldn't even take the case.

Let's see how it goes. I shall remain blindly optimistic.

ABC101

Mortgages are long term products.... 20,25,30 even 35 years life. I believe in Japan they have generational mortgages, passing from father to son etc

But the FSO does not involve itself in products older than 6 years!!!!


What a farce!

Just why on Earth does the Irish taxpayer fund this lunacy?

ABC101

On a similar point..... If the FSO is not allowed to review financial contracts which are older than 6 years old..... Then why are 20 + year contracts (I.e. Mortgages) allowed to be sold in this country?

Just who is protecting the citizen here???..?

Hotblack Desiato

It does seem ludicrous. Surely statute of limitations applies from when the 'injury' took place, i.e. the alleged breach of the contract, not when the contract was signed. Not at all surprised the FSO is kicking for touch though, like the insurance ombudsman these bodies are set up by the industry for the industry, and only give the appearance of consumer protection.

robbe

ninja900 wrote: »

It does seem ludicrous. Surely statute of limitations applies from when the 'injury' took place, i.e. the alleged breach of the contract, not when the contract was signed. Not at all surprised the FSO is kicking for touch though, like the insurance ombudsman these bodies are set up by the industry for the industry, and only give the appearance of consumer protection.

Danske called me back after 2 attempts to contact them - missed their call but a charmless chap left a message saying they were happy to discuss the offset issue but their position as set out in the letter is their definitive stance - I see no sense in calling back.........

yop

robbe wrote: »

Danske called me back after 2 attempts to contact them - missed their call but a charmless chap left a message saying they were happy to discuss the offset issue but their position as set out in the letter is their definitive stance - I see no sense in calling back.........

I would call back, give them zero sense of a win.
Tell them you have not signed a new T&C's. That you have the original contract.
That you won't be closing your accounts until this is fully investigated.

Keep the pressure on

Ryaned40

Hi, my solicitor today told me that his final thought on this situation is that he has rang around a few associates of his and that they all seem to think that danske bank closing our offset current accounts without our permission is breach of contract of offset mortgage, the one thing they were definite about is that I was under no circumstances was I to close any accounts myself as this would void this argument! That was his final thought but he did say that it could go either way and that if we were to lose the complaint not to take it any further as the cost and power of the banks would eat me up of money in the courts!
So in short don't close any accounts , let them do it and if it comes out that they were in the wrong it won't come back to haunt you that you signed off on closure! This is just advice that I personally got and I am not telling anyone to do what I have stated ! I just wanted to share what I am going to do with you guys! Still waiting for danske to get back to fso about mediation !