Danske bank to close retail customer accounts

kennM

yop wrote: »

Anyone heard anything since. I have not heard a think from the FSO so not sure where we stand. Some seem to be ahead of others, but I would have thought that the FSO would have at least given us an update now after 8 weeks.

No update on my side... from reading FSO website individual complaints can take between 6 -> 12 weeks typically. Guideline times, not binding. I'd say it may be another little while. Given the trend so far (Danske rowing back and offering "limited" offset mortgage) Danske seem to be on the back foot.....

I fail to see how FSO can rule in favour of Danske... to justify their position they are quoting T&Cs that customers have not signed and they have confirmed that these T&Cs weren't even sent to customers. The original signed T&Cs don't allow for a change in T&Cs either.... as they asserting. Their argument has some serious holes in it.... scabs that the FSO has picked

robbe

yop wrote: »

Anyone heard anything since. I have not heard a think from the FSO so not sure where we stand. Some seem to be ahead of others, but I would have thought that the FSO would have at least given us an update now after 8 weeks.

Made contact with FSO the other day asking for an update as they had sent on my response to Danske more than a month ago. They reverted and said that Danske had not bothered to respond and that the issue was now in the queue for adjudication which would take a number of weeks - they didn't specify how many but I didn't get the impression it was going to take another 2 months. Unsurprised that Danske weren't arsed responding.....you'd hope their attitude is taken into account in the overall verdict but I doubt it!

Fred Swanson

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robbe

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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I assume this was the case when Danske failed to respond within the timeframe they were given by FSO - thus proceed to adjudication as 'ping-pong' has ended.

To that end Danske have failed to supply signed facility agreement for the loan, evidence that original terms and conditions governing the current/deposit account were agreed to - basically the central plank of their case was the latest T&Cs which give the right to close the account - these T&Cs being a variant of those which they said we signed up to originally but have failed to produce.....you'd think that this alone would weaken their case but I not holding my breath! They also referred to the notion that they would be required to maintain the ability to maintain an offset account on the offset mortgage product that they sold me as 'onerous'!

kennM

My gut feeling here is that Dankse, like any insurance company in a claim, have resigned themselves to suffering losses of X (and have likely accounted for and will write it off) and they're letting the Ombudsman decide.

They're doing what they can, which is limited, to put up a good side to their argument and will wait it out. There is no benefit in them trying to negotiate early as it weakens the case for the rest of the pending claims.

I just hope the Ombudsman is fair in their assessment based off all supporting evidence/material.

yop

Bunch of twats really. Hope they get well dealt with but I'd be more shocked if they were.

kennM

yop wrote: »

Bunch of twats really. Hope they get well dealt with but I'd be more shocked if they were.

Jesh Yop! get off the fence will ya? :P

yop

kennM wrote: »

Jesh Yop! get off the fence will ya? :P

They'll wear the fence if I get my chance

handlemaster

there out of the Banking market now so I don't think the regulator would be to concerned about repercussions / political intervension etc

yop

handlemaster wrote: »

there out of the Banking market now so I don't think the regulator would be to concerned about repercussions / political intervension etc

So do you think that might make them come down harder on them?

robbe

All gone quiet in here....I've heard nothing in past 2 weeks - anyone else asked when they might get a decision?

makeorbrake

so who do you'se have to contact to take up a grievance with the fso!?


The machinery of state is unacceptably (and in many instances, deliberately...) s-l-o-w....

robbe

There's a grievance form on the FSO website, you can either fill it in online or print off and post to them. I think I submitted mine in April so don't expect a speedy resolution....

Fred Swanson

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.BrianJM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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I would have thought that the people had all but finished their 'ping pong'.

As explained the FSO cannot do anything until the ping pong ceases.

The bank's legal/financial experts will be the ones who are prolonging things while we religiously check mail each day. :rolleyes:

kennM

Looks like I'm first over the line somehow, or others are keeping quite.

Had a letter from FSO this morning. Long story short....

Complaint upheld, Danske Offside... so what's the interesting bit?:

• Proposed offer of offset mortgage (the one tabled a couple of months back) back on the table
• Lost offset benefits (based off the average of the past 12 months savings) to be applied between date of termination (by Danske) and decision around offset mortgage back on table
• Compensation for all the hassle

Not quite sure what I'm thinking just yet..... I'm happy that complaint has been upheld though.

makeorbrake

kennM wrote: »

Looks like I'm first over the line somehow, or others are keeping quite.

Had a letter from FSO this morning. Long story short....

Complaint upheld, Danske Offside... so what's the interesting bit?:

• Proposed offer of offset mortgage (the one tabled a couple of months back) back on the table
• Lost offset benefits (based off the average of the past 12 months savings) to be applied between date of termination (by Danske) and decision around offset mortgage back on table
• Compensation for all the hassle

Not quite sure what I'm thinking just yet..... I'm happy that complaint has been upheld though.

result :-)

yop

It shall be interesting. The Offset tabled a number of months ago had T&C's which were fully slanted towards Danske, so they could if we signed up, have applied the same "out" when ever they wanted. Also we have to go through all the hassle of getting a brand new mortgage.
In my own case I am now self employed, which I wasn't when I got my mortgage back in 2006 and I highly suspect I wouldn't get a mortgage anywhere.
Also the compensation will be an interesting figure. I think they cost me over 10 working days of stress, loss of time, paper work, ink, paper, post, diesel and many nights of lack of sleep.
The loss of Offset they will take for 4 or 5 months, yet we are 7 months out of the offset.

I would play hard ball here lads, they are on the run, lets keep them that way.

The proposed new offset should be as we already have, rejected. Reinstate our old mortgage with the current accounts we had.

I wouldn't accept the first offer, if we had broken our mortgage contract Danske bank would try to take our house, in this case it will cost them maybe 2k per person....

kennM

yop wrote: »

It shall be interesting. The Offset tabled a number of months ago had T&C's which were fully slanted towards Danske, so they could if we signed up, have applied the same "out" when ever they wanted. Also we have to go through all the hassle of getting a brand new mortgage.
In my own case I am now self employed, which I wasn't when I got my mortgage back in 2006 and I highly suspect I wouldn't get a mortgage anywhere.
Also the compensation will be an interesting figure. I think they cost me over 10 working days of stress, loss of time, paper work, ink, paper, post, diesel and many nights of lack of sleep.
The loss of Offset they will take for 4 or 5 months, yet we are 7 months out of the offset.

I would play hard ball here lads, they are on the run, lets keep them that way.

The proposed new offset should be as we already have, rejected. Reinstate our old mortgage with the current accounts we had.

I wouldn't accept the first offer, if we had broken our mortgage contract Danske bank would try to take our house, in this case it will cost them maybe 2k per person....

FYI - Regarding hard ball..... the findings of the FSO is legally binding unless you appeal to the High Court within 21 days. Stakes & costs get a lot higher at that point. It's also not black and white with regards to breech of contract, the findings of the Ombudsman is their interpretation. If you're thinking of going beyond FSO findings I'd strongly recommend getting legal advice first.

yop

kennM wrote: »

FYI - Regarding hard ball..... the findings of the FSO is legally binding unless you appeal to the High Court within 21 days. Stakes & costs get a lot higher at that point. It's also not black and white with regards to breech of contract, the findings of the Ombudsman is their interpretation. If you're thinking of going beyond FSO findings I'd strongly recommend getting legal advice first.

Ok interesting that. Ya a high court case would be expensive indeed.

nicky5mx

very interesting...............but it appears that based on the above FSO ruling we have to accept the very restricted offset proposal as offered by DB a few months ago and they are going to throw us a few small quid for our troubles.

Unless I am missing something here DB have come out better than us. We may as well have agreed to the DB solution a few months ago.

I hope I am proved wrong when I get my letter from the FSO but not the decision I had hoped for.

to boot

kennM wrote: »

Looks like I'm first over the line somehow, or others are keeping quite.

Had a letter from FSO this morning. Long story short....

Complaint upheld, Danske Offside... so what's the interesting bit?:

• Proposed offer of offset mortgage (the one tabled a couple of months back) back on the table
• Lost offset benefits (based off the average of the past 12 months savings) to be applied between date of termination (by Danske) and decision around offset mortgage back on table
• Compensation for all the hassle

Not quite sure what I'm thinking just yet..... I'm happy that complaint has been upheld though.

Did they state the basis upon which th complaint was upheld?

robbe

Hi,

Received letter yesterday but wasn't in a position to post until today. Complaint was upheld and to me, though I expect everyone's circumstances are slightly different, it seems that the thrust of the letter will form the basis for most peoples response (it read quite generic when getting to the part where the complaint was upheld). The complaint was upheld on the basis of a unjustly strict interpretation of the terms and conditions surrounding the offset current and/or savings accounts. My argument that no T&Cs were provided was rejected (seems to be as if Danske provided some info to FSO that I didn't receive). The remedy, as I have since closed my mortgage account with them, was for compensation but this was not a large sum by any means. The decision is binding and either party have 21 days to appeal to the high court. Not sure if anyone who gets a favourable decision would take the costly step to proceed to high court and the sums involved are quite small so I expect Danske would suck it up and think that it was worth their while as the offset benefits accruing over the remaining term of the mortgage dwarfed any nominal compensation.

Initially I was happy that a favourable decision was reached. I think that my (and quite probably others) letters will be similar so best of luck to everyone else - post on here if you get something - I'd imagine they will start to drop in letterboxes over the coming days.

Cheers

makeorbrake

robbe wrote:

My argument that no T&Cs were provided was rejected (seems to be as if Danske provided some info to FSO that I didn't recieve

Can you query this?

I thought initially you'se had gotten a result. On reflection its still not an equitable decision. Theyve got together with the fso and came up with this solution. Which of you are going to dare to risk $ in the roulette table that is our legal system.
Theres no reason in these times that a legal action should cost anything close to what it does right now. However, that's a much bigger rotten, corrupt-riddled apple that is not being dealt with...

dolallyoh

kennM wrote: »

Looks like I'm first over the line somehow, or others are keeping quite.

Had a letter from FSO this morning. Long story short....

Complaint upheld, Danske Offside... so what's the interesting bit?:

• Proposed offer of offset mortgage (the one tabled a couple of months back) back on the table
• Lost offset benefits (based off the average of the past 12 months savings) to be applied between date of termination (by Danske) and decision around offset mortgage back on table
• Compensation for all the hassle

Not quite sure what I'm thinking just yet..... I'm happy that complaint has been upheld though.

Sounds like the compensation is fairly small ? In fact depending on that sum it appears Danske have completely won this hands down. If I had a 200k offset with 200k savings then I'd be going to the high court.

kennM

dolallyoh wrote: »

Sounds like the compensation is fairly small ? In fact depending on that sum it appears Danske have completely won this hands down. If I had a 200k offset with 200k savings then I'd be going to the high court.

Not going to disagree with you. The main issue I have now are with the proposed new t&cs.... they very much stack the deck in Danskes favour. I don't think they can supercede the original t&cs associated to mortgage, which were the basis for the complaint being upheld.

So if anything there could be conflicts between new and original t&cs.

I'll likely get legal advice

jwrbs

Not sure I would say Danske have won hands down - they are having to retain these new offset accounts for the life of relevant mortgages and offer offset benefits - surely they were trying to get out of the cost of that. I agree that the fact that we can no longer offset current accounts etc is a deterioration of conditions etc. I had suspected that was where it was heading anyway and opened one of the new offset accounts earlier in the year.

This week I made my first withdrawal from it - sent the form in, and then got a call from Pepper asking to verify I had sent the form in. I am planning to withdraw on a monthly basis (have full offset in place, and no point in leaving excess funds in there if no interest is being earned) and i was told that they are going to call me each month for this verification, and there is no facility to put a standing order or equivalent in place. Hard not to conclude they are trying to make it as difficult as possible.

ABC101

Well done to you all for holding out / standing firm.

Given Ireland has a growing population, currently undergoing good growth, unemployment falling (thank God) and property coming back in value....then do the really smart management in Danske think they are still smart....coz in my opinion they are looking very stupid liquidating at the bottom of the cycle.

I just hope at the next shareholder meeting in Copenhagen that the shareholders remind management of this!

Fred Swanson

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kennM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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With the costs involved in appealing to the high court I'd be very surprised, metaphorically speaking you'd be spending €20 to save €5. If they do then bring it on.