Confessions of a never has been.....

healy1835

After my first outing in a pair of spikes today, I just cannot comprehend how you ran your 10k PB in a XC race!

Duanington

healy1835 wrote: »

After my first outing in a pair of spikes today, I just cannot comprehend how you ran your 10k PB in a XC race!

ha ha ha - maybe it said more about how weak my road PB was ? It was a horrendous amount of hurt though, I'll never forget it

Swashbuckler

Performance of the year 2018 (19?).

Duanington

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Performance of the year 2018 (19?).

2018 - funnily enough, I felt I ran better at the nationals that year, I've never felt so out of my depth in my life, slower time but tougher course and I finished well ahead of a few lads that I would always try to get close to ..


Oh to be running like that right now!

Duanington

27.09.2020


Thursday

Easy hour or so around St Anne's, sloppy enough in places on the grass. Forgot that some of my easy trails can get a bit wrecked when the rain comes down heavy.
Left hamstring still a little tight.

Hammy and glute specific S+C afterwards.

8.2 miles today


Friday

Met up with AMK for a few easy miles around the PP, nice chatter all the way around, reckon we basically figured out the key to success by the end of this one :pac:

Always a more enjoyable experience in good company

7.5 miles all in

Had planned to head out again later in the day but looked at weekly mileage trajectory and it would have put me ahead of where I wanted to be, canned the idea.


Saturday

Session day; 30 minutes tempo - effort based, no higher than 167 BPM and a bumpy 50\50 grass\tarmac loop around St Anne's to keep this honest

Decent warmup done and I got started, staying on the grass for the first mile or so. Settled quickly into this and felt very comfortable over the first 2 miles or so.
The second half of this one was where the real work started, the wind had picked up and the second half of the route would take me up through St Anne's from coast, taking in some of the grass loop along the way so certainly a tougher experience.
I had to remind myself several times that the aim here was not to hold a pace or to beat a pace, it was to hold effort and not turn this into a race.

As such, I backed off the effort a couple of times, resisting that urge to "fight" against the discomfort (effort levels definitely climbed over the second half).

Very happy with this one at the end

4.75 miles at 6.20 pace - definitely tougher over the second half but lots of mental control, keeping things out of the red really.

The nature of these runs means that the pace slips for the same effort as the body tires which can take a little getting used to I guess, I'll run another one of these in a few weeks time.

Just over 10 miles all in


Sunday

Long run today
Met a pal in the PP for some of this which was great, killed an hour of the run, then I kicked on myself for the rest, progressing the pace down towards steady very gradually over the last 3\4 miles.

Bumped into Murph for a quick chat along the way before finishing up at the cross.

I probably need a little more higher end aerobic stuff over the next while but I can't get too much of that from the long run (body wouldn't hack it the day after a session), I think 30 minutes or so towards the end might do the trick

13.1 miles all in

65 miles for a very good week

Duanington

05.10.2020


A few months back, when I started moving well and feeling good again, my physio was very clear with me in that this was something I would have to manage and from time to time, the back issue will manifest itself in ways that may not seem obvious.

A good example was in late May\June, I was running some really good grass tempo runs each weekend and pushing some speedwork midweek too. Over the course of 2\3 weeks I noticed a tightening of the hamstring (just behind my right knee, it felt different to the problems I had had over the previous year though, tight but not sore.
Of course, it was a warning sign which I ignored really and by mid June, I had to take 10 days or so off to let a hamstring strain settle.


Fast forward a few months and the same symptoms presented mid last week, except in my "good" leg this time.
Rather than be an idiot again ( although it is tempting, always tempting). I've eased back totally, taken a few days off and tested the leg out on a couple of 20-30 min runs.


I know the recovery path and time (it needs rest and a week usually does it) so I'm following that.



Monday

AM - 6.66 (:eek:) miles around St Anne's, a little slip slidey...might have contributed to the general tightness around the back\hamstring area

PM - Just over 4 very easy miles on the coast. Really enjoyed this

S+C session


Tuesday


Planned a lunchtime steady hour, but 3 miles in or so, the left hammy started to tug a little harder than the previous day, wound the pace down again and left it at 4 miles


Wednesday




3 miles very easy

Tight but nor sore


Thursday, Friday - off

Saturday - 25 mins easy, tight but less so

Sunday - 25 mins easy, no real reaction


Lots of S+C and stretching to take advantage of the tine saved by not running


I'll skip today and probably tomorrow before ramping back up again.


Lydiard based stuff awaits for the next while

OOnegative

Mind the body till it’s right D, hopefully only a minor setback.

Duanington

OOnegative wrote: »

Mind the body till it’s right D, hopefully only a minor setback.

Thanks B - reasonably confident that its minor, I know the signs and am trying to get ahead of it slightly. It'll be something I'll be managing for a good while yet though

Back in Black

Good call on the sensible approach to keep on top of things D!

Duanington

18.10.2020


A return to running this week, a good physio session, some good pilates and S+C and a realisation that I've lost some of that much craved aerobic fitness over the course of the 2 weeks or so.

Monday

Straight line running - 30 minutes or so. Tightness in the hammy but no worse at the end than it was at the start, good sign.

Pilates\S+C

Tuesday

More straight line running, 40 mins this time. As above except less tight and probably feeling a good deal better by the end

Into the physio in the evening who assures me that there is no actual issue with either of my hamstrings, this is all tied to the back issue that I have and unfortunately will flair up now and then. essentially the body gets to a state of hypersensitivity and something triggers it going into the equivalent of limp mode in a car.
The solution? S+C and physio on the trigger points that lock up sooner than I did this time around and I'm good to run (while being sensible)

Sore enough session around the back of the knee and the usual trigger points along the hamstring but felt a million dollars afterwards

Wednesday

Pilates\S+C

Then out in the evening for just under 6 miles, feeling a little blowy but so much smoother in the back and hamstring area.

Thursday


S+C\Core

Resisted to urge to go too long today and stuck to 4.5 miles in St Anne's, chancing the twistier route that I would usually use. All felt good


Friday

Met my sister for a few miles in the PP - just over 4 miles with a few strides at the end


Saturday


40 minutes steady effort today, in and around St Anne's. No real focus on the watch here, more about tuning into a steady effort and seeing how it felt.

Legs were fine but the lungs weren't - huffing and puffing a little too much by the end of this one.

40 mins @ 7.30 min\miles



Sunday


Long run day, something that I need to extend out a little as the weeks roll on into the winter. No need to do anything stupid today but I did want to take in some hills on the route so went up to Howth, not quite all the way up to the summit (maybe a mile short), turned around and came back home.

Again, feeling a little lack of endurance by the end but that will come back quickly enough with some consistency .

13 miles @ 7.50 pace




All in a very good week and sets me up well to start a new plan from tomorrow.

There'll be no real speedwork for the next couple of months, lots of easy\steady miles and some MP stuff for sessions, while turnover will come from strides and short hills.

AuldManKing

Duanington wrote: »

There'll be no real speedwork for the next couple of months, lots of easy\steady miles and some MP stuff for sessions, while turnover will come from strides and short hills.

the way to go me thinks.

Duanington

26.10.2020


Monday AM

Out lunch for just over 5 miles all easy.
Usual tipping around the trails in St Anne's

Core\S+C then later in the day then met Murph for a couple of easy miles along the coast


Tuesday

Steady effort lunchtime run today at lunch.

Started off easy and just worked down the effort a little, nothing major really, just enough to bring it out of the recovery\easy and into stead, I'll build on this run over the next few months

7.5 all in


Wednesday

Lunch run - mostly on grass, nice and easy. About 5.5 miles

S+C\Pilates later


Then 3.2 miles in the evening time

A few very short hill sprints (10 seconds), not quite flat out but I will build to this in time


Thursday


5.7 miles very easy

More S+C


Friday - off

Legs felt fine but told myself to take the day off given that I'd done 9 days or so on the bounce.

Pilates in the evening


Saturday

Met a couple of the DNS lads for a few miles in St Anne's in advance of the virtual marathon the next day. I was on pacer duty for a few miles for C's sub 3 with an early start so today was as much about getting out of the nest early enough as anything else !

6.2 miles all easy


Sunday


Up bright and early to head down to my allocated starting point - which would be just over 17 miles into C's run, all going well this would be a good solid workout for me and hopefully a sub 3 run for C.

Wind was pretty strong and I was a little worried jogging down to The Baths on the coast. I shouldn't have worried though, C came down the road like a freight train and I struggled initially to get a hold on the pace.

But I did settle in well eventually and enjoyed most of this. The coast road was fine because we had the wind at our backs, turning up the Kilbarrack road was a different story though, uphill and wind coming at us, I tried to shield C as much as I could from the wind but sure I'm not exactly broad shouldered

By 40 minutes or so, I was aware that this was a good workout and while breathing well, my problem right side was starting to creak a little. I didn't want to let C down but didn't want to do anything stupid either. Down the Malahide road was fine though, really nice stretch and once we got back onto the coast road, I knew he was fine, he didn't need me there at all.

With 500m to go, PK drew along side us for a bit, C was moving well and I asked P if he was ok to finish off with him - I eased off the pace gradually and watched C head off to claim his Sub 3.

Just under an hour at 6.53 pace, not easy but still aerobic which is the main thing for me at the moment

Jogged back, spotted Murph coming to the closing stages of his run, with FBOT leading the way, barking out instructions. Joined in with a few more bodies for D's last stretch into the wind and really enjoyed seeing him realise how well he'd run afterwards.


Shared a quick beer with the two lads then jogged home for breakfast.

Hip flexor a little tight afterwards but nothing major, a great day for the lads.


Just under 13 for the day and a very good week

Duanington

28.10.2020


This week sees the first week in what will hopefully be 8+ weeks of basebuilding.

Easy miles, a midweek steady state run, a weekend session of nothing more than steady state running with a sprinkling of marathon effort stuff and an easy long run.

The astrix to all of this is that it's largely effort based, I'll wear the chest strap to keep the HR from creeping beyond marathon effort at all on most of the steady runs\sessions. The theory is of course, that I should get more return for my effort in 8 weeks or so.

Strides, short hill reps will provide turnover work...while some unstructured fartlek after the first few weeks should keep it interesting (it still won't be very fast though)

I've been obsessing over some books either by or about Lydiard recently and having dug in a little deeper (chatting to Ecoli and to a couple of our current club coaches), I'm curious to see where I can go with it.

With no races on the horizon, its a good chance to bite the bullet and build the aerobic engine anyway. I've always always kicked on from marathon training blocks very well, I feel good with a strong aerobic base so essentially thats the plan now....except there won't be a marathon.



Monday

Woke up a little creaky after yesterday's pacing gig with C, or maybe it was the few glasses of wine later than night.
Headed into St Anne's in the afternoon for 5 easy miles. All systems felt better as the run went on.

S+C afterwards

Tuesday


Same as yesterday really, 5 easy miles, the grass is really starting to cut up so more paths than grass this time around

Pilates afterwards


PM

Out before dinner for 3 easy miles with some controlled 100m strides in there. 6 x100 actually, all very controlled and full recovery between


8.1 for the day


Wednesday


I've dabbled in some steady running of late but its really been 30\35 minutes max. Today was the first of what will hopefully be a weekly 70\80 min steady state run. I put the chest strap on to keep an eye on the effort, the key to these runs is staying aerobic and not turning it into something that it shouldn't be, the wind was strong today and I've a habit of forcing things too much.

Into St Anne's to start with but left the park after a mile or so, looping around the outside of the park, back in and down to the coast. Awful conditions for a couple of miles here, running into a strong breeze and downpour, had to focus here to keep the effort from creeping up too high.

U turn after a couple of miles and back to the park to finish off, wind at my back along the coast, this was a pleasure. Into the park for another small loop and finished up on the coast.


This felt like the perfect steady state run, pleasantly tired after 70 minutes, jogging home for the .5 of a mile or whatever.


70 mins @7.20 min\mile (9.52 miles)

Core work after

Duanington

01.11.2020



Thursday

AM - Ditched the watch and took it easy around St Anne's for 50 minutes or so, guessing the pace but it was most likely around 8.20 or so

PM - Out later again for just over 3 miles, all easy but some strides over the last mile, 80m strides, very much focused on form\turnover.

6 strides in total, ensuring I was fully recovered between each

Pilates in between

Friday

AM - met FBOT and Ferris for a few miles around St Anne's, good chatter had the hour flying by. Enjoyed this, left the watch at home again but mapped this out to be around 7.5 miles, very easy (somewhere just south of 9 min miles)

PM - 3 miles with 8 x 10 sec hills sprints

Again, focused on form and turnover and full recovery between

S+C in between

Saturday



Continuing on with the Lydiard base building theme, today's session was all aerobic and floating between MP and Steady efforts.

Wind was blowing hard outside so I ditched the idea of heading out onto the coast, opting for a more sheltered but busier St Anne's. I also decided to use the chest strap to use as a guide to stop myself pushing too hard into the wind.

Session was 5 mins@MP\10 mins@steady x 3

I basically lapped the park 2\3 times for this session, trying to keep the HR around the 157\58 mark for the MP efforts and in the lower end of 150s for the steady efforts. I have the data from a lactate test I did late last year so I've a good idea of what HR constitutes marathon\steady etc...

Wind was awful at times, really bad and it just made the session messy in terms of pacing it. The HR keeps things honest though, I'd to ease off the gas to let the HR settle a few times, always into the wind - otherwise it's just not keeping the session honest

Good session though, felt strong throughout, despite a crap night's sleep the night before.


6.2 miles for the sesh, just over 10 for the day


Core work later on



Sunday


Awful wind, 2 hours easy, stayed in the park for most of this, mixing the route up between paths, trails and grass.

Little bit of tightness around the right glute towards the end.


Just shy of 15 miles for this which brings the week to around 67 miles

Good week down

Swashbuckler

Out of interest D, what's your threshold HR?

Murph_D

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Out of interest D, what's your threshold HR?

I’m guessing about 164. Depends on which threshold of course!

Duanington

LT is around the 163 mark alright. I won't be obsessing over HR though to be honest, wearing the HR strap during the 2 sessions at the moment is really to;

- keep me honest and keep things genuinely aerobic (Saturday was a good example, I would usually push the effort up running into a strong wind but this session was about holding an effort, not a pace)
- allow me to compare HR v pace over time
- Helping me tune back into the steady\mp efforts

Swashbuckler

Cheers D. Was borne out of curiosity in relation to my own possible HR/pace relationship (selfish reasons as always for asking. Lol).
I've had some threshold runs lately where my HR was in or around 160-162.. Trying to relate that back to where my current MP would be (in theory).

Duanington

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Cheers D. Was borne out of curiosity in relation to my own possible HR/pace relationship (selfish reasons as always for asking. Lol).
I've had some threshold runs lately where my HR was in or around 160-162.. Trying to relate that back to where my current MP would be (in theory).

No worries P.

HR is such an individual thing really, it varies so much from person to person.

Good to see your curiosity for the marathon hasn't waned ;-)

Swashbuckler

Curiosity is where it begins and ends. Haha. In fairness the progress has been fairly significant this year so very happy with that. Lots of aerobic (high and low end) stuff and some chunkier sessions than I was able to handle previously tells me I'm moving in the right direction. Always a fine line on the edge though and knowing when to pull back slightly is always tricky. The runner mentality always takes over.

So you'd be estimating your MP to be roughly 6 or 7 BPM further back from LT? I know that's very basic and it is individualistic.

Duanington

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Curiosity is where it begins and ends. Haha. In fairness the progress has been fairly significant this year so very happy with that. Lots of aerobic (high and low end) stuff and some chunkier sessions than I was able to handle previously tells me I'm moving in the right direction. Always a fine line on the edge though and knowing when to pull back slightly is always tricky. The runner mentality always takes over.

So you'd be estimating your MP to be roughly 6 or 7 BPM further back from LT? I know that's very basic and it is individualistic.

You seem to motoring along nicely alright, fair play.



Well, purely effort-wise, my MP SHOULD be around 157\58 and my LT is around the 163 mark so 5\6 beats back....

Conditions, fatigue, stress etc will all play a part of course but that's the ballpark yep

Wottle

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Curiosity is where it begins and ends. Haha. In fairness the progress has been fairly significant this year so very happy with that. Lots of aerobic (high and low end) stuff and some chunkier sessions than I was able to handle previously tells me I'm moving in the right direction. Always a fine line on the edge though and knowing when to pull back slightly is always tricky. The runner mentality always takes over.

So you'd be estimating your MP to be roughly 6 or 7 BPM further back from LT? I know that's very basic and it is individualistic.

Almost sure Hadd reckoned a very well trained athlete could average 90% of max HR for a marathon.
I've looked at loads of figures from club mates and folks I've coached and settled on 88% of max HR. Few beats under the average early doors doors and a few beats over towards the real business end. You really need to know your specific max number though.

Duanington

09.11.2020

Monday

AM - Bit of a shuffle around St Anne's with some "flying strides" on the top field, 80m or so with full recovery.

PM - 4 miles along the coast, all easy. Met FBOT for some of this one

Pilates in between


Tuesday


AM - 5 miles around St Anne's, don't remember this one at all really

S+C

Then 4 miles along the coast


Wednesday

70 minutes steady, perfect night for running really and I took the usual bumpy route. HR hardly budged on this run, not entirely sure it was accurate to be honest, it seemed a couple of beats too low for most of the run

Hovered around 150 for the lot, with the pace averaging out at 7.17 min\mile


10.5 miles for the lot (inc a short warmdown)


Thursday



Morning shuffle around St Anne's, just over 4 miles

S+C

PM - Just over 3 miles with some strides in the last mile



Friday

Had to work in Clondalkin today so headed over to Corcaigh Park to do a loop or two at lunch. Enjoyed this one, just under 7 miles for the lot


- S+C


PM - 3.3 miles with some very short hill sprints, didn't feel great on this. It was late in the day and the end of a very busy week


Saturday

50 mins alternating between MP effort and Steady - 158ish and 152ish BPM


Headed out along the coast for most of this, started off in St Anne's but it was way too busy.

Enjoyed the session but I didn't have the same free running feeling that I had on the midweek steady session, had to watch the effort a bit closer.

Interesting to note that I got slightly less return for the same effort as the run wore on, probably an indicator that I have work to do in terms of aerobic endurance.

7 miles @ 7.07 min\miles for the lot

Just over 11 for the day

Pilates later



Sunday


Had to push the long run until later in the day today, busy morning in the house.
Got out just before the sun went down and took in the coast road, looped around Fairview, took in a couple of drags just off the coast road and then the long drag up the Malahide road before finishing off back along the coast

15 miles in just over 2 hours which gave me 73 miles for the week.

Duanington

12.11.2020


Week 3 of at least 8 weeks of aerobic base building and I'm starting to find a good routine now, the Wednesday steady run provides the focal point midweek while the strides and short hill strides break up the easier stuff ( of which there is lots).
last week was just under 10 hours of running, if I can stay around the 9.5-10.5 hour mark for the next few weeks I'll be pretty happy
All the while, S+C\Pilates has to stay on the menu, chatting to a coach in Raheny recently who has a similar issue as me, he views his S+C routine as his passport to allow him to run


Monday

Lunchtime run around St Anne's - mostly on the grass as always

6.35 miles

S+C after

PM - 4.6 miles with some strides over the last mile or so, all along the coast, sneaking onto the cycle lane a fair bit.


Tuesday

5.75 miles easy, St Anne's, grass destroyed so I used more tarmac than usual

Pilates after

PM - Met Ferris for a few miles, probably ran a couple more miles than I had planned but the chatter was good.

Just over 6 miles easy


Wednesday


75 minutes steady

Usual route, starting along the coast and heading up into Raheny using the drags, back down to the coast then back up the Kilbarrack road. The weather was pretty awful heading out but I started to enjoy this from a mile or so in.

Once again, the aim was to keep the HR no higher than 152\153

While the conditions meant this was never going to be as enjoyable as the previous week, it was pretty comfortable most of the way. The last 3 miles or so was into a good wind so I backed off the pace to keep the HR from creeping over the limit.

Core work after (10 mins)


Just under 10.5 miles @ 7.10 min\mile

ThebitterLemon

Interested to see what your S&C routine looks like Double D, not all flipping chin ups these days I hope

TbL

Duanington

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Interested to see what your S&C routine looks like Double D, not all flipping chin ups these days I hope

TbL

A sprinkling of chin ups alright TbL.....but more along the lines of:
Pilates
Squats (weights)
Lunges (weights)
Single leg squats
Calf raises
Pressups with one raised leg
Hip raises
Side planks with leg raise ( awful, hate, hate, hate them)
Planks with leg raises

ThebitterLemon

Duanington wrote: »

A sprinkling of chin ups alright TbL.....but more along the lines of:
Pilates
Squats (weights)
Lunges (weights)
Single leg squats
Calf raises
Pressups with one raised leg
Hip raises
Side planks with leg raise ( awful, hate, hate, hate them)
Planks with leg raises

You don’t find any issue with your back from planks?

Even though I’ve pretty good form I’m getting paranoid that planks are pinching my back

TbL

Duanington

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

You don’t find any issue with your back from planks?

Even though I’ve pretty good form I’m getting paranoid that planks are pinching my back

TbL

Not if form is good, if form is bad then yeah there is deffo additional strain on the back.

I find with planks though, its not enough to just hold the position, I have to actively squeeze the core so its taking the load. The leg raise almost forces this ( and makes the plank that bit tougher too)

Swashbuckler

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

You don’t find any issue with your back from planks?

Even though I’ve pretty good form I’m getting paranoid that planks are pinching my back

TbL

My physio had recommended core work a good while back when I was having psoas, hip flexor issues. I tend to suffer a little from lower cross. Planks are risky for me for the same reasons you mentioned. She recommended leg raises in the place of planks. With your hands placed under your lower back with focus being on keeping the back flush/pressed against your hands.

shotgunmcos

Lads practice hollow rocks and basically use that upside-down position for your plank. You will engage your core and protect your back