Eurovision Song Contest 2014

gavmcg92

So the mentor system is scrapped and we're definitely in the competition for 2015. Going to be interesting to see how things play out for us next year.

http://eurovoix.com/2014/05/10/ireland-2015-participation-confirmed-as-mentors-scrapped/

ShaneMc2012

gavmcg92 wrote: »

Anyone have any news on the Georgian vote? According to a few tweets, the jury votes were disregarded by the EBU as they all were the same. I've no proof of that though.

http://www.eurovision.tv/page/results?event=1893&voter=GE

EDIT: Found something

I knew it was odd Georgia giving Austria 10 points! Of all the countries taking part in this competition, all of the trouble is coming from the same group of countries year after year, if they cant be trusted they should be ousted end of!

Irish Aris

paulheu wrote: »

Females usually do not wear beards. He is part of a gimmick act designed to win the contest based on the given that the gay community is carrying this competition across Europe and have for a long time now.

If he would be in drag without the beard I'd buy his intentions but right now it's all drama and an act for me.That's still fine really and I have nothing against that but don't go all 'equal rights' on us and just do your thing.

IMO the real winner as far as SONG goes was The Netherlands by a mile and seeing how they scooped both the composer and performance awards by their peers I think I am not alone in that.

fair enough. Three things though:
1.The act wasn't designed to win the contest. He is performing as Conchita Wurst since 2011
2.I didn't go equal rights on everybody. This is a thread for the Eurovision song contest.
3.Irish people need to realize that country and western music is not as popular elsewhere as it is in Ireland. The Netherlands' song also served as a novelty (one of a kind) in addition to being a good song.

Ol' Donie

Wait, wait, wait...

The Man With The Golden Gúna!

That's it.

CountyHurler

gavmcg92 wrote: »

So the mentor system is scrapped and we're definitely in the competition for 2015. Going to be interesting to see how things play out for us next year.]

I'm not sure that there was a huge problem with the mentor system... The problems only occurred when the mentors shamelessly used the opportunity to promote themselves or their friends... Cormac Battle picking his own song?? The Roe woman picking her own sister? These people really should be ashamed of themselves

riffmongous

gavmcg92 wrote: »

http://defactofinding.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/austria3.png

Very interesting chart that shows the differences between some of the juries and public vote for Austria. Massive difference in opinion between the Armenian and Belarusian juries and their public results.

Very nice find, thanks gav

Its interesting how well the song did in every single televote.

gavmcg92

riffmongous wrote: »

Very nice find, thanks gav

Its interesting how well the song did in every single televote.

It's interesting. To me this graph points to some of the failures of the jury system. It seems that across the board, regardless of the country voting, Austria was loved by the general public. However, you then have the failure of the 100% public vote system when you have acts like Poland coming first in the likes of the UK and Ireland. I suppose for now the 50/50 system works to cancel the problems out from both sides leaving the best act taking the crown.

CountyHurler

Originally Posted by gavmcg92 View Post
http://defactofinding.files.wordpres...5/austria3.png

Very interesting chart that shows the differences between some of the juries and public vote for Austria. Massive difference in opinion between the Armenian and Belarusian juries and their public results.

To save you all the hassle, I turned my computer on it's side and took a picture of it..

Woodville56

paulheu wrote: »

If he would be in drag without the beard I'd buy his intentions but right now it's all drama and an act for me.That's still fine really and I have nothing against that but don't go all 'equal rights' on us and just do your thing.

But he didn't grow the beard for Eurovision - it's been part of the Conchita stage image for years it seems !

Woodville56

Vis a vis the "popular" Irish vote for Poland and some of the negative comment regarding the Austrian winner , I reckon (a) most of the voting was by Polish people living here and (b) the rest was by those who enjoyed the "spectacle" that was the Polish girls ! In a similar way , many voted for Conchita because she was different.......takes all sorts thankfully ! What was the Polish song about anyway ??? It definitely won the "booby" prize on the night for sure !!

riffmongous

gavmcg92 wrote: »

It's interesting. To me this graph points to some of the failures of the jury system. It seems that across the board, regardless of the country voting, Austria was loved by the general public. However, you then have the failure of the 100% public vote system when you have acts like Poland coming first in the likes of the UK and Ireland. I suppose for now the 50/50 system works to cancel the problems out from both sides leaving the best act taking the crown.

Yeah, it does seem to even out, I wonder if 50/50 is perhaps the right proportion though or should it be weighted a little more towards the televote.

DubVelo

Woodville56 wrote: »

Vis a vis the "popular" Irish vote for Poland and some of the negative comment regarding the Austrian winner , I reckon (b) most of the voting was by Polish people living here and (b) the rest was by those who enjoyed the "spectacle" that was the Polish girls ! In a similar way , many voted for Conchita because she was different.......takes all sorts thankfully ! What was the Polish song about anyway ??? It definitely won the "booby" prize on the night for sure !!

I'd guess there's a fair bit of a neighbourly vote for Poland as well considering the cultural ties. It certainly didn't deserve to be voted the worst song by our jury.

AK333

QUOTE [the staging of their 2014 entry that cost them qualification for the final. It has been suggested that Ireland should opt for an internal selection like that of the UK] QUOTE

Well that worked well for them didn't it :rolleyes:

Lets look at successful countries like Sweden, and see how they choose their entry - why do we always have to look at the UK for everything

efb

So both the UK and Irish public voted Poland first, but their juries but them last, that was harsh from the juries! Me smells a rat!

hotmail.com

The best song won. Some people just don't like seeing men wearing dresses. It bothers them for some reason (although non of the posters will admit that on here).

I got Austria at 25/1, so I'm delighted.

hotmail.com

Lapin wrote: »

Not trolling.

Are you seriously seriously trying to tell me that Austria's entry tonight deserved to win?

Are you seriously suggesting Ireland was better than Austria?

The public had their say and they disagreed.

strandroad

efb wrote: »

So both the UK and Irish public voted Poland first, but their juries but them last, that was harsh from the juries! Me smells a rat!

I don't think the juries know the vote coming in (which in this case was largely driven by the Polish community I suppose).

emanresu esrever

efb wrote: »

So both the UK and Irish public voted Poland first, but their juries but them last, that was harsh from the juries! Me smells a rat!

But who are the juries? They are hardly governmental, anti immigration officials. I'd be more interested in seeing how many people actually vote for the eurovision.
Logically, you cannot vote for your own country so your motivation to vote for another would be greatly depreciated.
HOWEVER, if you are living in another country, of course you can vote for YOUR OWN country, so your tendency to vote will increase, so thats why neighbouring countries get voting for eachother.

Also, while I alluded to the fact that the jury wouldnt be anti-Polish, er se, they would understand that a large Polish phone vote will amount, I think perhaps they would try to balance this out somewhat, however unfairly by giving a lower vote.

While it seems like I am contradicting my earlier statement, my overall point is that it isnt out of a dislike of Polish people that the jurors may vote like that, but moreso out of a dislike of block voting.

I think that having a combined voting system is the only way to deal with block voting which would be an awful lot worse otherwise.

Hope you follow what I am saying



Ps I have yet to meet anyone who has actually voted for the Eurovision (or disclosed that they have). I imagine its hardly hundreds of thousands of votes

emanresu esrever

mhge wrote: »

I don't think the juries know the vote coming in (which in this case was largely driven by the Polish community I suppose).

I would imagine they would be very aware of the amount of Polish living here and hence the likelihood that the Polish vote from public would be substantial.

See my point above.

gavmcg92

mhge wrote: »

I don't think the juries know the vote coming in (which in this case was largely driven by the Polish community I suppose).

They vote the night before so they have no idea whatsoever how the public are going to vote. Putting them in last place was a bit over the top but they were one of the worst acts of the night musically. Definitely didn't deserve to get any points from us.

emanresu esrever wrote: »

But who are the juries? They are hardly governmental, anti immigration officials. I'd be more interested in seeing how many people actually vote for the eurovision.
Logically, you cannot vote for your own country so your motivation to vote for another would be greatly depreciated.
HOWEVER, if you are living in another country, of course you can vote for YOUR OWN country, so your tendency to vote will increase, so thats why neighbouring countries get voting for eachother.

Also, while I alluded to the fact that the jury wouldnt be anti-Polish, er se, they would understand that a large Polish phone vote will amount, I think perhaps they would try to balance this out somewhat, however unfairly by giving a lower vote.

While it seems like I am contradicting my earlier statement, my overall point is that it isnt out of a dislike of Polish people that the jurors may vote like that, but moreso out of a dislike of block voting.

I think that having a combined voting system is the only way to deal with block voting which would be an awful lot worse otherwise.

Hope you follow what I am saying



Ps I have yet to meet anyone who has actually voted for the Eurovision (or disclosed that they have). I imagine its hardly hundreds of thousands of votes

You can see who the jury members are by looking at the voting page on the eurovision website. To be honest I think it's a ridiculous accusation to make that the Irish jury voted to knock off the public vote. The song was dreadful and warranted a low score. As for who votes in the eurovision? Many people here, me included, voted a couple of times for our favourite acts. Looking back at my text messages I gave a vote to Austria, Malta and the UK. I think you would be surprised at how many votes RTE takes in for the competition. The official figures are not given as it opens the possibility of voting manipulation in smaller countries where less people are voting. If the figures for televotes are too low, in the case of San Marino, then the results for that country are made up entirely of jury's results.

realweirdo

Ok my take on it...the song wasn't outstanding and certainly no better than 4 or 5 top contenders.
However a good song plus unique selling point in this case drag act equals victory. The contest depends on visual as well as audio these days particularly with the public having a say many of whom don't have a musical note in their head and who treat the contest as a bit of a joke.

So Ireland's entry next year needs to be a good song sung by someone with a unique selling point who the audience can almost feel sorry for. Basically we need to find a freak who can sing!

realweirdo

gavmcg92 wrote: »

They vote the night before so they have no idea whatsoever how the public are going to vote. Putting them in last place was a bit over the top but they were one of the worst acts of the night musically. Definitely didn't deserve to get any points from us.

I thought the french song was decent and didnt deserve to come last. It treated the contest with the llight heartedness it deserves.

gavmcg92

realweirdo wrote: »

I thought the french song was decent and didnt deserve to come last. It treated the contest with the llight heartedness it deserves.

This is a minor problem with the cultural aspect of the voting. It dictates how the bottom half of the score board looks. The French song wasn't the worst but it wasn't great either. Didn't deserve to be on the left hand side of the board. You need to forget about how acts position after 15/20. After that the position is neither relevant or indicative of how Europe as a whole enjoyed the performances.

Lord TSC

realweirdo wrote: »

However a good song plus unique selling point in this case drag act equals victory.

This is a key point. To me, there's three factors in play during an act.

1. Is the song great and memorable (are you able to sing in the next day)?
2. Is the performer recognizable/memorable (be they a gimmick or a renowned act)?
3. Block voting (Can you guarantee some votes regardless of 1 and 2)?

To win, you need two of those three factors to be very strong, and can take a hit in the third. Last night, Austria hit 1 and 2, and had enough of 3 to win it (though not as overwhelmingly as other winners have in recent times).

Coincidentally, we failed (imo) to hit any of the three this year or last; I think Jedward hit Number 2 well and hit 1 decently as well in their first try, hence why they did so well. England last night hit 1 but not 2 or 3. The reality is we will never get a high rank in the third factor so need to nail both 1 and 2 perfectly.

Arthur Beesley

Apologies if this has been asked and answered, but why is the media (or some media coverage) referring to the winner as 'she' rather than 'he'?

DubVelo

realweirdo wrote: »

I thought the french song was decent and didnt deserve to come last. It treated the contest with the llight heartedness it deserves.

No, it was terrible. Truly the worst of the night and deserved to be last.

Irish Aris

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

Apologies if this has been asked and answered, but why is the media (or some media coverage) referring to the winner as 'she' rather than 'he'?

because he took part as Conchita Wurst, the female character he has created back in 2011.

DubVelo

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

Apologies if this has been asked and answered, but why is the media (or some media coverage) referring to the winner as 'she' rather than 'he'?

Oh god, please don't start that again!

Arthur Beesley

Irish Aris wrote: »

because he took part as Conchita Wurst, the female character he has created back in 2011.

Okay, but he is a he. He is a transvestite, not a transsexual.

strandroad

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

Okay, but he is a he. He is a transvestite, not a transsexual.

He's not a transvestite, he's a drag act. If he's not on stage as "her", Conchita, he's a gay guy.

Irish Aris

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

Okay, but he is a he. He is a transvestite, not a transsexual.

correct.
When he is speaking as Tom Neuwurth, he refers to himself as a he.
When she is speaking as Conchita Wurst, she is referring to herself as a she.

This approach is quite common (or at least can easily be found) in drag show/characters.

Arthur Beesley

Irish Aris wrote: »

correct.
When he is speaking as Tom Neuwurth, he refers to himself as a he.
When she is spekaing as Conchita Wurst, she is referring to herself as a she.

This approach is quite common (or at least can easily be found) in drag show/characters.

Thanks.

realweirdo

I'm going to be controversial here and say we need to send johnny logan next year or someone with european wide recognition. I think the acts that generally do well are those that are recognised across europe either for the usp element or for being an outstanding song. As has been stated we will never gain from bloc voting and the chances of us producing an outstanding song are slim. Those acts which generate hype in the week beforehand have a big advantage. Lets be honest most of the public are impressionable, follow the crowd and couldn't tell a good song from a bad one.

Grandeeod

realweirdo wrote: »

I'm going to be controversial here and say we need to send johnny logan next year or someone with european wide recognition. I think the acts that generally do well are those that are recognised across europe either for the usp element or for being an outstanding song. As has been stated we will never gain from bloc voting and the chances of us producing an outstanding song are slim. Those acts which generate hype in the week beforehand have a big advantage. Lets be honest most of the public are impressionable, follow the crowd and couldn't tell a good song from a bad one.

Johnny Logan won't work. He's too old and I'd predict a backlash against him based on him winning previously.

thelad95

Is there anything to be said for sending an already well-recognised international act instead of a (with all due respect to Kasey) relative no-body. I'm not sure how up for it they would be but why not send the Script or Kodaline or even Imelda May? The UK sent Blue over a couple of years ago and they got a respectable result.

realweirdo

Grandeeod wrote: »

Johnny Logan won't work. He's too old and I'd predict a backlash against him based on him winning previously.

Not at all...we've tried young singers every year for the last 10 years. Their average age was about 23. Apart from jedward the rest were annonymous outside of ireland. A lot of it is to do with recognisibility. Theres also the nostalic element.

There's actually a lot of ingredients that go into producing a eurovision winning entry and a good song is a minor element these days. Presentation, hype, usp and so on also count. Sending another unknown next year equals failure. Stand out acts win.

realweirdo

thelad95 wrote: »

Is there anything to be said for sending an already well-recognised international act instead of a (with all due respect to Kasey) relative no-body. I'm not sure how up for it they would be but why not send the Script or Kodaline or even Imelda May? The UK sent Blue over a couple of years ago and they got a respectable result.

I do't think they would have the nessecary kitsch credentials. A drag act would have a better chance to be honest. Its all about kitsch these days and the lgbt constituency is reasonably big. A gay icon might also help.

Lord TSC

realweirdo wrote: »

Apart from jedward the rest were annonymous outside of ireland.

Many were anonymous within Ireland as well :P

Lightbulb Sun

efb wrote: »

So both the UK and Irish public voted Poland first, but their juries but them last, that was harsh from the juries! Me smells a rat!

Might have fared better with the juries if the song was any good, one of the weakest songs last night.

gavmcg92

realweirdo wrote: »

Not at all...we've tried young singers every year for the last 10 years. Their average age was about 23. Apart from jedward the rest were annonymous outside of ireland. A lot of it is to do with recognisibility. Theres also the nostalic element.

There's actually a lot of ingredients that go into producing a eurovision winning entry and a good song is a minor element these days. Presentation, hype, usp and so on also count. Sending another unknown next year equals failure. Stand out acts win.

We sent Niamh Kavanagh a couple of years ago. Acts like that are never going to win. Europe and eurovision watchers want fresh faces with a great song.

Also, block voting doesn't dictate the winner.

thelad95

realweirdo wrote: »

I do't think they would have the nessecary kitsch credentials. A drag act would have a better chance to be honest. Its all about kitsch these days and the lgbt constituency is reasonably big. A gay icon might also help.

Panti? :rolleyes:

Toto Wolfcastle

I don't think Johnny Logan would do it. He would want to protect his good reputation in Eurovision. In any case, he wouldn't win. He's just not modern enough.

Talk of sending The Script or Kodaline or Imelda May is ridiculous too. The Script are doing incredibly well for themselves. Kodaline are beginning to do well in America. Imelda May is number 1 in Ireland and number 3 in the UK. None of them need Eurovision in the way that Blue needed it.

No doubt RTE will try to find a Mumford and Sons tribute act to send, because that type of thing did well this year and RTE always copies what has done well in the past.

realweirdo

gavmcg92 wrote: »

We sent Niamh Kavanagh a couple of years ago. Acts like that are never going to win. Europe and eurovision watchers want fresh faces with a great song.

Also, block voting doesn't dictate the winner.

Its all about ticking the boxes. There are so many constituencies you have to appeal to and most of all you need to know your audience. Like I said before if the winner sang as an ordinary man or woman, no drag act nothing, they would have been in with a good shout but probably lost out to another act which had something extra.

Music is subjective. I had nothing against the winner, good luck to him/her. Unfortunately I just didn't think the song was that special or any better than a number of others. Others however have a different opinion and assure us that it was the best and of course their opinion counts more than others!

PeteK*

mhge wrote: »

He's not a transvestite, he's a drag act. If he's not on stage as "her", Conchita, he's a gay guy.

Or even just a.. guy.

realweirdo

thelad95 wrote: »

Panti? :rolleyes:

Still not unique enough. If he grew a beard maybe.

realweirdo

Whoever is sending next years act to austria from ireland, first they need to find the act and then find the song. We were punching above our weight for years so maybe we should just accept our lot. As for rte organising anything don't make me laugh.

ShaneMc2012

gavmcg92 wrote: »

To be honest I think it's a ridiculous accusation to make that the Irish jury voted to knock off the public vote.

I thought that aswell but looking at the results from around Europe that's exactly what Belgium did. There is a massive Armenian diaspora in Belgium and in order to get rid of the diaspora vote the jury placed Armenia 2nd last.. As bad as Poland were I dont think Armenia was the 2nd worst song in the Final. If Belgium did it whats to stop Ireland?

http://www.eurovision.tv/page/results?event=1893&voter=BE

realweirdo

ShaneMc2012 wrote: »

I thought that aswell but looking at the results from around Europe that's exactly what Belgium did. There is a massive Armenian diaspora in Belgium and in order to get rid of the diaspora vote the jury placed Armenia 2nd last.. As bad as Poland were I dont think Armenia was the 2nd worst song in the Final. If Belgium did it whats to stop Ireland?

http://www.eurovision.tv/page/results?event=1893&voter=BE

The bloc voting wasn't as noticeable this year so maybe the juries did make an effort to cancel it out.
Not as many as the 12 points for next door neighbour or from large ex pat communities as in years past. The voting has always had a dodgy element to it and while it mightnt always dictate the winner for other placings it does.

Lord TSC

Its weird though; we see it as a competition big acts should want to avoid cause it could damage their reputation.

Other countries send their biggest acts because they don't see it that way. It's that attitude I think we'll need to change before we actually do well again.

Welsh Megaman

Really enjoyed the show last night, one of the best in recent memory

Tips for Ireland next year...

1. No mentors
2. No cultural stereotypes
3. Select a young act and let them write their own song without any outside interference, or influence from Lulu Walsh

Job done