DCM 2013 Graduates - The Journey Continues!

cnlbel

Hi there-just come across this thread-hope im not intruding!! did the DCM there and loved it. took me a VERY long time and am excited about knocking some minutes off. my speed is snails pace!! glad to see and read about others in the same position. toying with a 3 miles gentle run this weekend just to the the legs moving!

2chances

cnlbel wrote: »

Hi there-just come across this thread-hope im not intruding!! did the DCM there and loved it. took me a VERY long time and am excited about knocking some minutes off. my speed is snails pace!! glad to see and read about others in the same position. toying with a 3 miles gentle run this weekend just to the the legs moving!

Go for it but be gentle. Did a very slow 6k on Saturday morning and felt pretty good afterwards. My Plan is to follow the Hal Higdon 4 week post marathon schedule for novices and plot a route to some 5k and 10k races in the first few months of the new year. I feel a need for speed ..........

AlsoRan

I was bold at the weekend and ran a park run at my normal speed! Couldn't resist it, as I bombed at the DCM and wasn't as wrecked as I should have been (having to walk/run for sections of the race) the legs felt okay. It actually did me the power of good as it's showing me I can bounce back.

Re goals, I really want to keep pulling my 5k time down, but even more importantly my 10K as it is way out in comparison to my 5k. If I can pull those times down, it may give me more confidence stepping up to the longer distances. I'm going to work on my core over the coming months, lots of yoga, pilates, zumba etc. so that hopefully I'll have a bit more stamina in the new year.

Running wise, I'm just going to focus on shorter distances, 5-10K a few times a week and then early next year when I have a better idea of target races I'll start stepping it up. I'll definitely do the race series again and DCM 2014. I think I may have done too many halfs this year, four from March on, so I'm going to take my time picking races as I definitely felt those halfs seemed a bit too early training wise for me.

Rainrunner

Thanks Blockic for helping us guys and girls out.

I'll jump straight in here. I've been trying to figure out what I did wrong. I had a 4:10 target for DCM but secretly thought I could achieve closer to 4:00. In the end I finished with a time of 4:25..

I know I probably went out to fast but I also need to know was it endurance issues, training pace etc.! Having said that, I still had a great day and can't wait for next year. I am just too inexperienced to figure it out, so any advice folks will really be appreciated

Here's some details of my training up to DCM- My long runs from taper where 18, 20, 20, 14, 15.5 16, 13, 12, I've run these at a 10.30 mile pace.

My half marathon time was 1:49:44 and 10k time was 00:47:52 .... 5k time was 00:23.

blockic

Degsy123 wrote: »

Following the marathon and over the next few months my plan is as follows;

Tue 5 miles
Wed 7 miles
Thurs 5 miles
Sat LSR (ideally around 10-15 miles)

I hope to try to fit in a race every 4-6 weeks - maybe starting with the clontarf half in 3 weeks. I had planned on keeping this through until Jan/Feb. Should I be increasing more ?

The basic structure is there alright but maybe over the next 8-12 weeks try to slowly build up to say 40 miles a week by adding to the midweek runs, take a step back week every 3 weeks.

To help with this you could maybe also over time add in a 3 miler on the Sunday as a recovery as the extra day of running would benefit you also....but take it slowly, no big jumps.

You could also start to introduce some tempo running on the Wednesday as part of that 7 miler.

HelenAnne wrote: »

Eoin is in the same toenail boat - I've seen his feet once since the marathon and don't want to see them again until they're back to normal!

They will never be back to normal!

Bulmers74 wrote: »

Distance. Current pb. Goal pb
5k. 19:59
10k. 43:21. 40:59
10 mile. 71:03. 67:59
Half 1:36:57. 1:29:59
Full. 3:28:57. 3:14:59

You plan for 14 looks solid Bulmers and the above goals are definitely achievable for you if you keep the consistancy.

dcorcaigh wrote: »

first things first. i need to get my ITB looked at before i go too head first into a training plan.

I assume you have a foam roller? The trigger point one would be excellent to keep the ITB at bay once you get it sorted. Foam rolling a number of times a week really helps keep on top of niggles and preventative for injurues.

AlsoRan wrote: »

I'm going to take my time picking races as I definitely felt those halfs seemed a bit too early training wise for me.

Great point here, when you are doing out a plan for your next big goal race it's important to lay out the interim checkpoint races that are on the way to your main goal from the very start. It helps to have them organised so you build up the training accordingly and they fit well into your overall plan.

I see most of you are looking at targeting shorter distances for a while rather than dipping straight back into another marathon in spring, this is a positive approach, building a good base over 6 months or so before starting back into the next marathon cycle and would probably what I would recommend.

Some of you may not even want to do another marathon if you find the shorter stuff more enjoyable and that it is a great avenue to take too. Check out davemcmahon's log if you have some time and see how he has come on greatly using this approach.

I know many of us novices last year delved straight back in for a spring marathon again which in hindsight may not have been the best idea. We were even partly warned! :rolleyes:

Anyway something to think about out on those recovery runs over the next couple of weeks.

blockic

Rainrunner wrote: »

Thanks Blockic for helping us guys and girls out.

I'll jump straight in here. I've been trying to figure out what I did wrong. I had a 4:10 target for DCM but secretly thought I could achieve closer to 4:00. In the end I finished with a time of 4:25..

I know I probably went out to fast but I also need to know was it endurance issues, training pace etc.! Having said that, I still had a great day and can't wait for next year. I am just too inexperienced to figure it out, so any advice folks will really be appreciated

Here's some details of my training up to DCM- My long runs from taper where 18, 20, 20, 14, 15.5 16, 13, 12, I've run these at a 10.30 mile pace.

My half marathon time was 1:49:44 and 10k time was 00:47:52 .... 5k time was 00:23.

Hi Rain Runner,

Your LSR pace looked fine, but you were definitely short on some long runs, another 17,18 and 20 ideally could have been added to that.

While your LSRs are very important, the midweek runs also play an important part of any plan to keep stressing the muscles regularly. Did you get out 3 times midweek?

What pace did you start off at on the day as you say you went out fast?

Most first timers will have endurance issues as it takes at least a couple of years of running solid and consistant mileage to build up a strong base and over time one should see a better correlation between a half and full times.

I know that my full time is still nowhere near reflecting my half. These things take time and patience is key.

PauloMN

Ok so the dust has settled, allowing me to mull over my time last Monday, and try to devise a master plan for 2014!

First a few questions which I'd appreciate feedback on:

- Why is the recommended pace for long runs 30 - 60 seconds slower than marathon pace? Also is this the same for half-marathon training i.e. do you run slower per mile than the pace for your target time?
- Assuming I'm doing DCM 14, at what point of the year should I decide my target time, and what should this be based on? Obviously it has to be done before starting the HH 18 week plan I want to follow, as that target time determines the pace for long runs.
- My midweek training (2 runs per week) had no real structure to it, I'd just "go for a run" - usually an 8k and a 10k. I suspect that my mileage was not enough, and also that I should have had a shorter faster run in there - would that have helped with my endurance (which seems to be my main issue)?
- What training plan should I follow between the Bohermeen HM up until I'd start an 18 week plan for DCM 2014? (Something like the HH Novice 2 Marathon programme I reckon is probably suitable).

So next up is the Aware 10k in December. Not sure what to aim for here, I feel that the marathon training has had me running slow for so long that a PB is out of the question. My 10k PB is 47 mins. Any recommendations about what sort of training I should do between now and then (Dec 14th)?

The next HM I'm planning is Bohermeen in early March, and I intend following the HH Novice 2 Half Marathon programme. Current HM PB is 1:57 from Dublin this year, I did 1:58 last year in Bohermeen. Looking at 1:55 or lower hopefully. Would that plan be a good one to follow?

Thanks for any help!

Rainrunner

blockic wrote: »

Hi Rain Runner,

Your LSR pace looked fine, but you were definitely short on some long runs, another 17,18 and 20 ideally could have been added to that.

While your LSRs are very important, the midweek runs also play an important part of any plan to keep stressing the muscles regularly. Did you get out 3 times midweek?

What pace did you start off at on the day as you say you went out fast?

Most first timers will have endurance issues as it takes at least a couple of years of running solid and consistant mileage to build up a strong base and over time one should see a better correlation between a half and full times.

I know that my full time is still nowhere near reflecting my half. These things take time and patience is key.

Thanks Blockic,

I got out an average of 3/4 times mid week up till the end of August when I got a knee injury, at this stage I stopped midweek sessions/speed work and just made sure I got the LSR completed.

My pace till mile 16 was approx 9:09 I could see the 4 hour pacers.. I got passed by the 4:10 pacers at the lucazade wall. Suffered there on in.!!

I've got similar goals as the other 2013 graduates. Maybe a 10k pre Xmas and a half in spring.

Thanks again Blockic

dazza21ie

blockic wrote: »

.....I know many of us novices last year delved straight back in for a spring marathon again which in hindsight may not have been the best idea. We were even partly warned! :rolleyes:.....

Last November

menoscemo wrote: »

........I see a few of you have indicated that you would like to do another Marathon in march. I wouldn't be over keen on that idea. I think it is a little too soon to benefit fully from the training we will do over the winter. The plan of this training program will be to get everyone out running regularly and gradually increase the miles covered per week while also introducing some speed work. We should be in a position at the end of January to start concentrating on working towards a goal race, It gives us 6 weeks specific training. But for a Marathon we would ideally need at least 12 weeks buildup (bear in mind we also need a 2-3 week taper) so we would be cutting it too fine. If doing a March marathon you would already have to be ramping up the LSR's from the start of January which I think is too soon. Would you all not consider leaving the marathon off until May/June instead? there are plenty of options around that time (Limerick, Kildare, Cork, Portumna).....

And then in March

blockic wrote: »

Bad news folks. No finishers medal, no PB, no sub 3. Collapsed at the last corner ........

From memory I think there was only one from last year's novices thread who had a really good spring/summer marathon.

+1 on Blockic's recommendation to have a look at Dave's log. It's a good example of what can be achieved with consistency and variety in training paces.

menoscemo

PauloMN wrote: »

Ok so the dust has settled, allowing me to mull over my time last Monday, and try to devise a master plan for 2014!

First a few questions which I'd appreciate feedback on:

- Why is the recommended pace for long runs 30 - 60 seconds slower than marathon pace? Also is this the same for half-marathon training i.e. do you run slower per mile than the pace for your target time?
- Assuming I'm doing DCM 14, at what point of the year should I decide my target time, and what should this be based on? Obviously it has to be done before starting the HH 18 week plan I want to follow, as that target time determines the pace for long runs.
- My midweek training (2 runs per week) had no real structure to it, I'd just "go for a run" - usually an 8k and a 10k. I suspect that my mileage was not enough, and also that I should have had a shorter faster run in there - would that have helped with my endurance (which seems to be my main issue)?
- What training plan should I follow between the Bohermeen HM up until I'd start an 18 week plan for DCM 2014? (Something like the HH Novice 2 Marathon programme I reckon is probably suitable).

So next up is the Aware 10k in December. Not sure what to aim for here, I feel that the marathon training has had me running slow for so long that a PB is out of the question. My 10k PB is 47 mins. Any recommendations about what sort of training I should do between now and then (Dec 14th)?

The next HM I'm planning is Bohermeen in early March, and I intend following the HH Novice 2 Half Marathon programme. Current HM PB is 1:57 from Dublin this year, I did 1:58 last year in Bohermeen. Looking at 1:55 or lower hopefully. Would that plan be a good one to follow?

Thanks for any help!

Firstly, you will set a 10k PB simply because you have been running a lot more recently. That counts for more than running less but doing some speedwork.

For the HM, I would certainly not follow a HH novice plan. After following a HH novice Marathon plan, this would be a large step backwards. You have already run 26.2 miles; why step back to a lower mileage plan with a longest run of 12 miles? If endurance is already an issue you will only go backwards with this approach.

I am sure Blockic will come up with a winter plan that will be a step up in training (in terms of miles, intensity and structure) I recommend you follow that plan when it comes; for now concentrate on recovery.

blockic

dazza21ie wrote: »

Last November

And then in March

Oi! No fair! Special circumstances!

blockic

menoscemo wrote: »

Firstly, you will set a 10k PB simply because you have been running a lot more recently. That counts for more than running less but doing some speedwork.

For the HM, I would certainly not follow a HH novice plan. After following a HH novice Marathon plan, this would be a large step backwards. You have already run 26.2 miles; why step back to a lower mileage plan with a longest run of 12 miles? If endurance is already an issue you will only go backwards with this approach.

I am sure Blockic will come up with a winter plan that will be a step up in training (in terms of miles, intensity and structure) I recommend you follow that plan when it comes; for now concentrate on recovery.

Agree with meno on this.

I'll look to do up a plan in the next couple of weeks while ye are all still recovering. On my to-do list somewhere!

This will likely be an 8-10 week plan over the winter to bring us up possibly to end january where people could target the Raheny 5 or Dungarvan 10 or another race around then perhaps? Would be interested in people's thoughts on this.

It will focus on building up the miles slowly and introducing some tempo/speed work midweek also. If people are interested let me know here and if there is demand I'll go with it.

KillianByrne

I'd just like to make the point that I didn't fail in a spring marathon. I finished an early summer one in Limerick.

I just haven't run since...

PauloMN

Thanks blockic and menoscemo. The reason I was thinking of the HH novice 2 plan for the HM was twofold. One, I didn't really follow a plan as such for the marathon (it was a weekend long run with two midweek runs, but not structured enough imo), and two, the next HH plan up from novice 2 involves five runs per week (which realistically I can't manage). I'm planning on going from 3 to 4 runs per week, so was looking for a plan that fits in with that setup.

martyboy48

I take a week off and there's sooo much reading to do
Well, kinda going against best advice, I'm planning for Connemara marathon on 6th April.
Will do a few 5-10km races in between and maybe a half in lead up.

Will continue with my 5 days running per week, but maybe a slight increase in mileage, nothing drastic. Would like to start incorporating some tempo/fartlek/LT sessions too for some variety(haven't done these before, not 100% on what they are exactly but have the jist of it ).
Need to address my eating habits. I can be quiet good choosing good meals but undo it all with biccies and chocolate, usually in evenings

Oh and I'm even tempted to head up for beers with y'all that Meno is organising

Thanks Blockic for taking this forward, we're in good hands...

dcorcaigh

blockic wrote: »

Agree with meno on this.

I'll look to do up a plan in the next couple of weeks while ye are all still recovering. On my to-do list somewhere!

This will likely be an 8-10 week plan over the winter to bring us up possibly to end january where people could target the Raheny 5 or Dungarvan 10 or another race around then perhaps? Would be interested in people's thoughts on this.

It will focus on building up the miles slowly and introducing some tempo/speed work midweek also. If people are interested let me know here and if there is demand I'll go with it.

i have signed up for Dungarvan so that sounds great, thanks Blockic

rob w

What are your next goals? (another marathon, concentrate on shorter distances etc.)

Wont be doing a spring marathon. Will almost certainly be doing DCM again next year. Going to target a more aggressive time though, without overdoing it, as this year was very conservative just to make it around first time out! I want that buzz of running in DCM again as I've never enjoyed a race as much as that before!

What type of training to you entend to do over the winter? (strenthening, endurance, just keep ticking over)


Going to start the post marathon recovery plan this week and wrap that up with a 10k/HM. Might carry on after that with blockic's plan for the winter, will wait and see. Going to incorporate some more core work and strengthening exercises....but not sure where to begin, Im all ears for any advice on this.


Where do you hope to see yourself to be in 12 months with your running? (PBs, races run etc.)

I would like to be in a position to target a 3:20 marathon next October. I think I should be able for it. So I am aiming to run a 90/95min HM and a 40/42min 10k between now and the end of summer 2014. Lot of hard work and consistency over the next 12 months and I think ill be in good shape. Love the HM distance so will be aiming to incorporate a couple of them in the next 12months.

Planned races: (Very provisional at the moment)

• Dec - Waterford HM (depends on how the next couple of weeks go)
• Jan - Raheny 5m
• Feb -
• March - Dunkirk HM (will be working in Lille for March/April/May so on the lookout for some races while there)
• April -
• May -
• Jun - Phoenix Park Duathlon (unsure whether to do these or focus on running, but enjoyed them last year) - Irish Runner 5m
• Jul - Phoenix Park Duathlon - Fingal 10k/Achill HM
• Aug - Phoenix Park Duathlon - Frank Duffy 10m
• Sep - Athlone HM
• Oct - Dublin Marathon

[/B][/B]

Duanington

rob w wrote: »

Going to incorporate some more core work and strengthening exercises....but not sure where to begin, Im all ears for any advice on this.

[/B][/B]

I find YouTube great for this type of thing Rob - lots of tutorials on core excercises, make sure to do this on alternate days though to give your muscles a day's recovery ( i.e. if you do a shed load of planks one day...leave your core\abs alone the next day)

Personally I find planks, side planks, superman thingies ( lying on your stomach and "flying" like the great man himself) leg raises and various types of crunches ( the kind that don't work your back at all) work for me.

Also, chin ups and pressups work well from personal experience - lidl get chin up bars in every few months

career_move

dazza21ie wrote: »

From memory I think there was only one from last year's novices thread who had a really good spring/summer marathon.

I was the only one who got Meno to do a plan for me though

Meno likes me to remind people of this to boost his ego :D:D

menoscemo

PauloMN wrote: »

Thanks blockic and menoscemo. The reason I was thinking of the HH novice 2 plan for the HM was twofold. One, I didn't really follow a plan as such for the marathon (it was a weekend long run with two midweek runs, but not structured enough imo), and two, the next HH plan up from novice 2 involves five runs per week (which realistically I can't manage). I'm planning on going from 3 to 4 runs per week, so was looking for a plan that fits in with that setup.

To be straight to the point; that is not ideal and is going to hold your progress back. Is there no way you could find another 2 running days? You could for example run to from work....I can't see any way you would reach your potential running so little especially over the longer distances...

PauloMN

menoscemo wrote: »

To be straight to the point; that is not ideal and is going to hold your progress back. Is there no way you could find another 2 running days? You could for example run to from work....I can't see any way you would reach your potential running so little especially over the longer distances...

Honestly, no. Even 4 per week will be a struggle some weeks. My wife also runs and we've two young kids, plus weekends are usually quite busy also - so there's a huge amount of juggling goes on in our house. No way could I commit to 5 runs per week, so whatever plan I follow will need to be based around 4 runs - 3 x midweek runs and a long weekend run.

Bear in mind I'm not looking to reach the times that others on here are looking to achieve. In fact, had I achieved my sub 4:30 in the marathon this year, I'd probably be not that interested in doing DCM '14. I reckon with more structured training I could have achieved that this year, so I'm hoping an extra day running per week and more structure to my training will see me get my target time.

That's why I was looking at the plans I was looking at, namely the novice 2 HH plans.

Sparkles2012

For my marathon training I have only ever ran 3 days midweek and a long run at the weekend and followed HH Novice 2 to get a sub 4 marathon. I personally found it gave me more time to recover as I have suffered with knee problems in the past so it suited me for those reasons.

SamforMayo

blockic wrote: »

Agree with meno on this.

I'll look to do up a plan in the next couple of weeks while ye are all still recovering. On my to-do list somewhere!

This will likely be an 8-10 week plan over the winter to bring us up possibly to end january where people could target the Raheny 5 or Dungarvan 10 or another race around then perhaps? Would be interested in people's thoughts on this.

It will focus on building up the miles slowly and introducing some tempo/speed work midweek also. If people are interested let me know here and if there is demand I'll go with it.

Yes please, don't make it too scary though!

Zaram

SamforMayo wrote: »

Yes please, don't make it too scary though!

+1 , would love this Blockic!!

ooter

First run since the marathon this evening,only 2 miles but jaysus it was great to get back out again.
I missed the oul endorphins.

SamforMayo

I don't have a garmin or any fancy running watch, I would like one but I hate reading instructions! Basically I want a simple device, can anyone advise me ?

BarneyJ

What are your next goals? (another marathon, concentrate on shorter distances etc.)

My goals for the next while will be to focus on shorter distances of 5K - 10K. I think I'll do as many of the BHAA winter cross country races as possible. There is one on this weekend but maybe this is a bit soon after the marathon to be racing? Also do I need spikes for this cross-country stuff? Any recommendations for these would be welcomed.
Also I think I will sign up for the Clontarf HM in a few weeks time to attempt to achieve a HM PB.

What type of training to you intend to do over the winter? (strengthening, endurance, just keep ticking over)


I think I'll probably be just trying to maintain my current level of fitness and work on my speed if I can.

Where do you hope to see yourself to be in 12 months with your running? (PBs, races run etc.)

I would like to bring my 5K PB down from 22:20 to sub 20. That may be a tall order! Would also like to get my 10K PB down by a minute or two from 44:49 if possible and my HM PB down from 01:41:40 to sub 1h 40 (I will attempt this in Clontarf). I had planned to get under 1h 40 during the Dublin Race Series HM in the Park this year but had one of my worst days running ever that day and was lucky to finish it at all.

Finally, as for a marathon in 2014, I had such a great experience during this years Dublin Marathon and felt so good throughout that I think I might go again next year (if I can get the all clear at home!). My time was 03:41:11 this year so if I run it next year I would target sub 03:30.

ooter

SamforMayo wrote: »

I don't have a garmin or any fancy running watch, I would like one but I hate reading instructions! Basically I want a simple device, can anyone advise me ?

Have you got a smartphone?
I use mapmyrun on my phone and find it very good.
I also have a Timex ironman watch that I find very good.

Laois_Man

SamforMayo wrote: »

I don't have a garmin or any fancy running watch, I would like one but I hate reading instructions! Basically I want a simple device, can anyone advise me ?

If you have a smartphone, download MapMyRun or RunTracker or a similar GPS tracking/timing app.

It's not bang on accurate but it'll probably give you what you want.

SamforMayo

ooter wrote: »

Have you got a smartphone?
I use mapmyrun on my phone and find it very good.
I also have a Timex ironman watch that I find very good.

Thanks Ooter, I don't have a smart phone but I think I will get 1 at Christmas. I will have to bribe someone to read the instructions for that too!