DCM 2013 Graduates - The Journey Continues!

career move

Well done dcorcaigh. A nice confidence booster as you say. What's the plan for DCM? Are you going with the 3:50 pacers?

dcorcaigh

career move wrote: »

Well done dcorcaigh. A nice confidence booster as you say. What's the plan for DCM? Are you going with the 3:50 pacers?

Thanks CM. I haven't made up my mind as of yet if I will go with the 3:50 pacers mainly because of what was mentioned on the main thread about the first half been tougher this year with the length of chesterfield avenue. might just position myself behind them and leave them off for chesterfield avenue and slowly rain them in then, I don't know, that's a dodgy enough approach!

xElDeeX

dcorcaigh wrote: »

Thanks CM. I haven't made up my mind as of yet if I will go with the 3:50 pacers mainly because of what was mentioned on the main thread about the first half been tougher this year with the length of chesterfield avenue. might just position myself behind them and leave them off for chesterfield avenue and slowly rain them in then, I don't know, that's a dodgy enough approach!

From the website it looks like the 3:50 pacers are starting with wave 2? I'm hoping for 3:45 and have trained with that in mind and so am in wave 1. Was hoping to put myself in between the 3:40 and 3:50 pacer and assumed they would both be in wave 1.

I'm a bit thrown by this as it's going to feel like no man's land right on the tail end of wave 1 and the next wave not starting for another 10 mins! Anyone any experience with being on the end of a group like that? Should I move down to wave 2?

career move

xElDeeX wrote: »

From the website it looks like the 3:50 pacers are starting with wave 2? I'm hoping for 3:45 and have trained with that in mind and so am in wave 1. Was hoping to put myself in between the 3:40 and 3:50 pacer and assumed they would both be in wave 1.

I'm a bit thrown by this as it's going to feel like no man's land right on the tail end of wave 1 and the next wave not starting for another 10 mins! Anyone any experience with being on the end of a group like that? Should I move down to wave 2?

I think DCM is your first marathon right. If I were you I'd drop back to wave 2 and start with the 3:50 pacers. It's very easy to start off too quickly in a marathon especially if it's your first. Your legs will feel great after the taper and after all your training you'll feel like marathon pace is really really slow and that you should run a bit faster and get a better time. The thing is though you need to conserve all that energy because 26.2 miles is a long way and when you get to 22 miles no matter how well you've trained, you'll need to draw on every little reserve that you have. So the best advice I can give is start off nice and steady. If it feels slow that's great. Think of all the energy you're saving up for later. You don't have to stay with the 3:50 pacers but at least if you start with them you'll be less likely to fall into the trap of starting out too fast. And if you decide to leave the happy pacer family remember to do so very gently because speeding up too much is going to use a lot more of that precious energy. Best of luck.

SamforMayo

career move wrote: »

I think DCM is your first marathon right. If I were you I'd drop back to wave 2 and start with the 3:50 pacers. It's very easy to start off too quickly in a marathon especially if it's your first. Your legs will feel great after the taper and after all your training you'll feel like marathon pace is really really slow and that you should run a bit faster and get a better time. The thing is though you need to conserve all that energy because 26.2 miles is a long way and when you get to 22 miles no matter how well you've trained, you'll need to draw on every little reserve that you have. So the best advice I can give is start off nice and steady. If it feels slow that's great. Think of all the energy you're saving up for later. You don't have to stay with the 3:50 pacers but at least if you start with them you'll be less likely to fall into the trap of starting out too fast. And if you decide to leave the happy pacer family remember to do so very gently because speeding up too much is going to use a lot more of that precious energy. Best of luck.

+ 1 to the above. I started last year with the 4.10 pacers, did nt see the 4 hr pacers until mile 15 and passed them at 18 miles. Ran 3.58. xx. I was taking a cautious approach and it worked well.

xElDeeX

SamforMayo wrote: »

+ 1 to the above. I started last year with the 4.10 pacers, did nt see the 4 hr pacers until mile 15 and passed them at 18 miles. Ran 3.58. xx. I was taking a cautious approach and it worked well.

Thanks guys. Thats what I'm probably going to end up doing. It's my second but my first training properly with 60+ mile weeks and a really good base built up even before I starting my plan. I've been hitting and exceeding all my targets and my legs haven't fallen off yet! (touch wood, decade of the rosary etc)

Did 1:44 in Athlone and felt like I had more in the tank if it hadn't been so warm! Going by that and my long runs going so well I'm feeling like sub 3:50 is realistic.
I'd be quite cautious in races and more inclined to start out slow anyway and build from there.

ThebitterLemon

martyboy48 wrote: »

Woo Woooo Wooooooooo.... Hold on a second...
What's all this AM/PM running, extra MP mile for the craic, and a 22.53 LSR...... And you throw a dodgy calf to try to throw me of the scent???

Listen here buddy, I'm onto you, and so is everybody else here Sandbagger extraordinaire

Savage running, great to see the demons banished
I reckon you have me well and truly bet in DCM so I'll concede defeat now so it wont get to messy Pass on my best regards to your coach TbL

Well Martyboy, the long grass sandbagger. It's easier to get info outta North Korea than on what's happening on your training sessions. While most were falling by the way side in Athlone you rock up with feck all done (yeah right ) and PB. Mmmmmmm! You're now trying to mess with poor Bulmers head! We ain't buying it, is the reason for your late night posting coz you're spending most of the evenings bashing out big miles around Galway. You'll need to lob a lot more of those sandbags away to get rid of that barrier you've built up

TbL

adrian522

I'm in the same position as you tbh. Been training towards 3:45 but I'm going to go out with the 3:50 pacers, see how things go, maybe push on a bit in the second half of the race, maybe not though, I'll see how it goes.

SeanPuddin

I think Martys log is password protected and I reckon he's forgotten it!

xElDeeX

adrian522 wrote: »

I'm in the same position as you tbh. Been training towards 3:45 but I'm going to go out with the 3:50 pacers, see how things go, maybe push on a bit in the second half of the race, maybe not though, I'll see how it goes.

So will you start with wave 2? I really want to feel comfortable for those early miles so I think I will. It takes me about 10 miles to warm up!

SamforMayo

SeanPuddin wrote: »

I think Martys log is password protected and I reckon he's forgotten it!

I reckon he is going to release a book after the marathon revealing all!!!!

SamforMayo

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Well Martyboy, the long grass sandbagger. It's easier to get info outta North Korea than on what's happening on your training sessions. While most were falling by the way side in Athlone you rock up with feck all done (yeah right ) and PB. Mmmmmmm! You're now trying to mess with poor Bulmers head! We ain't buying it, is the reason for your late night posting coz you're spending most of the evenings bashing out big miles around Galway. You'll need to lob a lot more of those sandbags away to get rid of that barrier you've built up

TbL

Can you not try and get a date with him? A running one I mean and put the squeeze on him ? ( metaphorically speaking of course)

career move

SeanPuddin wrote: »

I think Martys log is password protected and I reckon he's forgotten it!

SamforMayo wrote: »

I reckon he is going to release a book after the marathon revealing all!!!!

I reckon Marty's ears must be burning by now

ThebitterLemon

SamforMayo wrote: »

Can you not try and get a date with him? A running one I mean and put the squeeze on him ? ( metaphorically speaking of course)

Tried! Marty wasn't for datin or squeezing

TbL

SamforMayo

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Tried! Marty wasn't for datin or squeezing

TbL

Playing hard to get, you will have to get him in the long grass!

martyboy48

Here you go SfM....

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057299286

adrian522

xElDeeX wrote: »

So will you start with wave 2? I really want to feel comfortable for those early miles so I think I will. It takes me about 10 miles to warm up!

Yeah, I'll go out with wave 2. Hopefully closer to the front of wave 2.

xElDeeX

Sooo....last long run done and time to taper. I'm going to take the good advice given here and start with wave 2 (thanks!)
But I am still trying to nail down a goal pace.

I'll give a bit of background to help fill in the blanks and my splits from todays final long run/race rehearsal.

I've been running for about 3-4 years. Did the marathon last year following a novices plan and definitely hadn't enough base mileage in + stomach issues meant a bit of a nightmare for the last 6 miles. So far so familiar!
Finished in 4:09 swearing I would never do another.....but was already planning DCM 2014 by that night.

I joined an athletics club straight after and kept training right through the winter so my mileage has been 25-40 miles per week right up until I started marathon training so really there was no problem adding the extra miles especially on 6 days a week. Yes I felt the long runs after but not anywhere like last year and I'm not exhausted and run-down like I was pre-taper this time last year. Up until the last few weeks when I got a bit paranoid I've been hiking or cycling on my days off!

I've taken ten minutes off my half-marathon time (now 1:44) and still feel that's a bit soft as I did it in Athlone in the heat and felt grand straight after.....I always associate pb efforts with foaming-at-the-mouth and eyes rolling back in your head. It was hard but mostly just because of the heat not the pace.

I've done two 16's, an 18, two 20's and a 21 (today)
Each long run has been done on tired legs with a medium length (7-10miles) steady pace run the day before. Every second long run was done with a portion at or under PMP (I was doing my shorter 16 & 18 with 3:30 marathoners so they were done at about 8:30 average pace)

Today's 21 miler was fairly typical. I started off quite slowly and let the pace drift faster towards the middle of the run. I then maintained this pace until the end or tried to up it on the last couple of miles if possible.
My splits today were
9:49
9:46
9:46
9:03
9:12
9:20
9:00
9:23
9:13
8:47
8:30
8:38
8:32
8:26
8:39
8:19
8:25
8:21
8:24
8:22
8:16

I realise these are a bit inconsistent but it's a hilly route and I tried to keep the effort even rather than the pace so I lost time on the uphills a bit and then relaxed into the downhills and made the time back without extra energy going into it.

Felt great through all this. Fueling went fine and stomach was grand.
Based on this do you think going out at at 8:30 pace would be ok or is that just post run endorphins kicking in?

I realise I should probably just go the 8:47 I had started the plan at but it's going to be spring before I can do this again so don't want to be too conservative either.
Help!!

career move

Hi xElDeeX. Well done that was a good run this morning. Nice for the confidence before you start tapering. I would still be inclined to start with the 3:50 pacers. There's a massive difference between racing a marathon at 8:47 pace and racing a marathon at 8:30 pace. The nice thing about starting off at a more conservative pace is that if you go a small bit too fast for the first couple of miles, as can happen even if your very careful due to adrenaline and trying to find a bit of running room, it won't throw you. Also I just think you'll enjoy it far more if you start off a bit slower. You can pick it up steadily after halfway and again after 20 miles and you should be passing people all the way to the line which is far more encouraging than being under pressure from halfway and hanging till the end.

SamforMayo

God it's a tricky one, your training has been excellent and you are well prepared. If it was me I think I would still take the conservative approach, start with 3.50 pacers , right up beside them, you mentioned it takes you a while to hit the pace in races so give yourself that time. Pull away from them when you are ready and assess the situation from there. Get a pace band for 3.50 and 3.45 at expo. Maybe you should post this on main forum for more replies. Good luck, enjoy taper.

xElDeeX

Thanks Career Move and SfM. Ye seem to have the same psychology going as me. I would way prefer to be overtaking later in the race...I suppose the marathon is so much in the head anyway and I know my mind would defeat me if I felt like I was going backwards.

The 3:50 pacer is a given anyway......that's where I'll be starting. But I do want to nail down when I should start pushing on. I might post again in the main forum but I doubt I'm going to get much different advice.
I'm just a bit obsessed with it right now and am driving my one runner workmate daft! Need to find a good series to binge watch so I don't drive myself nuts in the next three weeks! Roll on the big day!

career move

xElDeeX wrote: »

The 3:50 pacer is a given anyway......that's where I'll be starting. But I do want to nail down when I should start pushing on.

It's hard to say exactly when you should push on because it's hard to know exactly what race conditions will be like and how you will feel on the day. Some people like to divide the race into the first ten miles that you run at easy pace, the second ten miles that you run at steady pace and the last 10k that you run flat out. It's a good strategy for experienced runners but I think if you haven't done many it's difficult to get the pacing right and the last 10k can turn into a bit of a slog. I know when I did Limerick in 2013 I ran with the 3:30 pacers to 20m and was feeling great. I pushed on then and thought it would be easy but after another couple of miles I was struggling. The pacers passed me out again and only for their encouragement there's no way I would have got going again and finished in 3:28. You know the saying 'the marathon only begins at 20 miles'. I would definitely be running easy till then anyway if I was you.

xElDeeX

career move wrote: »

It's hard to say exactly when you should push on because it's hard to know exactly what race conditions will be like and how you will feel on the day. Some people like to divide the race into the first ten miles that you run at easy pace, the second ten miles that you run at steady pace and the last 10k that you run flat out. It's a good strategy for experienced runners but I think if you haven't done many it's difficult to get the pacing right and the last 10k can turn into a bit of a slog. I know when I did Limerick in 2013 I ran with the 3:30 pacers to 20m and was feeling great. I pushed on then and thought it would be easy but after another couple of miles I was struggling. The pacers passed me out again and only for their encouragement there's no way I would have got going again and finished in 3:28. You know the saying 'the marathon only begins at 20 miles'. I would definitely be running easy till then anyway if I was you.

That's what I'm afraid of....the terrifying sound of a large pace group approaching from behind and feeling like you're standing still!
I did learn a lot from last year and that's why I'm asking for advice now which I will follow. I know I'm only a beginner at this and have to respect the distance.

SamforMayo

xElDeeX wrote: »

That's what I'm afraid of....the terrifying sound of a large pace group approaching from behind and feeling like you're standing still!
I did learn a lot from last year and that's why I'm asking for advice now which I will follow. I know I'm only a beginner at this and have to respect the distance.

I think RELAX , trust your training, listen to CM and you will know on the day when to push on. Is your running mate in work aiming for a similar time?

xElDeeX

SamforMayo wrote: »

I think RELAX , trust your training, listen to CM and you will know on the day when to push on. Is your running mate in work aiming for a similar time?

Unfortunately not. I'm trying to convince one of the girls from the club who I run with quite a bit to sign up next year. Doesn't help for this one though!

And will try to relax, thanks

SamforMayo

xElDeeX wrote: »

Unfortunately not. I'm trying to convince one of the girls from the club who I run with quite a bit to sign up next year. Doesn't help for this one though!

And will try to relax, thanks

You will be grand, looking forward to a great race from you and a detailed race report. Hope the 3 weeks pass quickly.

Bulmers74

@ xEIDeex

Would agree with CM & Sam on the 3.50 strategy. The first half of the race is a little different from last year & there is a longish drag from Heuston station up to Castleknock although it levels out a bit in the middle. The drag itself shouldnt be too bad on its own as it's relatively early in the race but it is exposed and would be a place where you could get a headwind and the shelter offered by a pace group could make things easier. The 3 miles after this drag are supposed to be very fast and I could see people getting carried away in this section and maintaining an unrealistic pace thereafter. I hope to stay with the pace group until the 20 mile mark & only reassess at this point.

menoscemo

xElDeeX wrote: »

The 3:50 pacer is a given anyway......that's where I'll be starting. But I do want to nail down when I should start pushing on. I might post again in the main forum but I doubt I'm going to get much different advice.

I read your post in the main thread and I was gonna suggest starting at 3:50 pace . Glad to see that great minds think alike!!
I think you could push on after half way, the second half in DCM is much faster than the 1st; particularly from about 15 miles on to 20. I reckon If you take the 1st half conservatively you could finish around 3:46-3:47. Good luck, sounds like you are well prepared; those fast finish long runs are super preparation for a marathon.

xElDeeX

menoscemo wrote: »

I read your post in the main thread and I was gonna suggest starting at 3:50 pace . Glad to see that great minds think alike!!
I think you could push on after half way, the second half in DCM is much faster than the 1st; particularly from about 15 miles on to 20. I reckon If you take the 1st half conservatively you could finish around 3:46-3:47. Good luck, sounds like you are well prepared; those fast finish long runs are super preparation for a marathon.

Thanks, I will do that. They had me convinced already

I ran the last 14 miles of the course a few weeks ago and got that impression too. I love the new fast finish instead of that never-ending loop of previous years. It sounds like I need to keep my legs intact so I can take full advantage of those last miles.

I really enjoyed the fast finish long runs and hopefully the 30+ mile weekends will give me the endurance I need for the race. May try to log next year as I've found so much valuable information just by lurking here!

xElDeeX

SamforMayo wrote: »

You will be grand, looking forward to a great race from you and a detailed race report. Hope the 3 weeks pass quickly.

Will do. Bad or good!