Advice on paying rent needed

MarthaMyDear

Hi

Myself and two others moved into a three bedroom house in Dublin at the end of August. We pay fairly substantial rent and there have been no issues, no rent paid late, house is still in great condition etc.

When we moved in the showers were not great, very little pressure and we needed to turn on both the heat and the immersion to get hot water. Over the first month of living there the showers got worse and the washing machine also stopped working. To my knowledge nobody lived there for several months before us. I rang the landlord in September and got no answer. I tried again towards the end of September and explained the situation- that there was now literally no pressure in the showers and we were having to keep the heat on for hours for hot water. The immersion doesn't heat up at all however the showers won't work without it switched on. I also told her about the washing machine. She text me several times throughout October telling me she was "trying" to get a plumber. I finally sent her an annoyed text message last week saying we are really struggling without hot water (we can only get luke warm now) and a washing machine. She replied saying she was sorry and there would be a plumber this week. So it's the end of the week, our rent is due today and still no plumber. I asked her again yesterday and she said "the plumber has still not confirmed".

Anyway sorry for the long post, just trying to include all the details. Are we within our rights to withhold rent until she gets this sorted? And our heating bill is through the roof because of the shower situation, I've explained this to her several times. Are we entitled to any sort of discount on the rent?

And for those of you wondering I have been going to work early to shower and going back to my parents at the weekend to wash my clothes! Nightmare!

Cuddlesworth

Registered letter to her on next day delivery. Keep the receipt and a copy of the letter. Outline the timeframes given above and the issues encountered. Say in the letter that in five business days you will procure a plumber to sort the heating and washing machine and all charges including time taken out of the working day will be removed from the following months rent if she does not action the issues within 5 working days.

Then do it.

Since this is the treatment you get, I would pretty much do this for every issue you have from now on.

Edit: Don't withhold rent without first giving a reason and timeframe to stop it happening. It doesn't look good in a PRTB hearing.

odds_on

Not a good idea to withhold rent - if you do need to make a claim with the PRTB it will be held against you.

When you have issues in a property, for which the landlord is liable, put the problems in writing (keep a dated property) with a request that they are remedied within 14 days. You could add that if the issues are not remedied by said date, then you will organise their repair/replacement and deduct the costs from the next rent period (or until the costs are repaid).

Again, if you wish to vacate the property, if the problems are not remedied within the 14 days, you may be able to serve the landlord with a 28 day notice of termination as the landlord has failed to honour his obligations.

MarthaMyDear

Thanks for that. I actually offered last week to sort both myself and take it from the rent but she just ignored that. I'm scared to tell her that we are withholding rent until it's sorted!

D3PO

no your not within your rights to withhold rent until its resolved. Its an unfortunate situation. Reading your opening post it seems to me the LL has been proactive in notifying you the situation through the last few weeks ?

If so theres every chance they are being genuine trying to sort this. Tradesmen can be a pain in the ass to get in to do what they deem small jobs. Its enough to drive you demented.

I would be firm with the LL though tell them you want a date by the time it will be resolved and advise them if not resolved by that date you will get your own plumber and deduct the bill from the rent. This you would be entitled to do. If the LL is messing about that will get it sorted quick smart.

odds_on

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Registered letter to her on next day delivery. Keep the receipt and a copy of the letter. Outline the timeframes given above and the issues encountered. Say in the letter that in five business days you will procure a plumber to sort the heating and washing machine and all charges including time taken out of the working day will be removed from the following months rent if she does not action the issues within 5 working days.

Then do it.

Since this is the treatment you get, I would pretty much do this for every issue you have from now on.

Edit: Don't withhold rent without first giving a reason and timeframe to stop it happening. It doesn't look good in a PRTB hearing.

A registered letter may be refused by the recipient. An Post do a service called "Swift" which guarantees delivery without a signature. It is next day as well, and cheaper - if you wish, a signature may also be obtained.

biko

Keep ringing her. Maybe she'll give you the name of the plumber and you can start ringing them yourself.
Don't reduce rent without having talked to PRTB about it first.

MarthaMyDear

D3PO wrote: »

no your not within your rights to withhold rent until its resolved. Its an unfortunate situation. Reading your opening post it seems to me the LL has been proactive in notifying you the situation through the last few weeks ?

If so theres every chance they are being genuine trying to sort this. Tradesmen can be a pain in the ass to get in to do what they deem small jobs. Its enough to drive you demented.

I would be firm with the LL though tell them you want a date by the time it will be resolved and advise them if not resolved by that date you will get your own plumber and deduct the bill from the rent. This you would be entitled to do. If the LL is messing about that will get it sorted quick smart.

She hasn't actually been proactive, I have had to contact her each time to chase up the situation. I just don't think it would take a month to source a plumber and a washing machine! If we pay our rent I feel this will drag on for another month so I'm not sure what to do.

Valentine1

Don't withold the rent, you aren't entitled to do that.

Have a read of the lease and see what it says about repairs, it should make reference to what steps you can take if the LL fails to carry out repairs. No hot water or washing machine for a month is pretty serious, i would expect that you would be within your rights to organise a plumber, tell her about it including the cost before he comes and if she doesn't object to get the repair done and deduct the cost from the next rent payment.

Don't bother with registered post, email is perfectly fine for this sort of stuff.

_Kaiser_

This thread is yet another example (daily on this forum) of the nonsense carry-on in the private rental sector.
It's all very well to talk about PRTB and hearings and what not but in the interim the OP has no washing machine, no hot water and expensive gas/ESB bills because of this landlord's inaction in the last 2 months.

I'd be ringing her today and telling her I'm getting a washing machine and a plumber in myself on Monday to sort it out and that the cost of same will be deducted from this month's rent - the balance of which she'll be paid after it's sorted.
Why should the OP have to fork out for it AND still pay this idiot her rent when she's stalled him for basically 2 months. In my experience people like that won't be too concerned about "hearings" or what not anyway.

There's plenty of threads on here about "bad tenants" (accurate or not) and the landlords who deal with them, but there's far too many of these opportunist BTL/get-rich-quick type eejits renting property as well.
Renting is paying for a service, and this landlord isn't living up to her side of the deal despite ample time and reminders to get this sorted!

Personally there's not a chance I'd be giving her another cent until this was sorted. This isn't a minor inconvenience like a broken floor tile - it's a washing machine and hot water.

But that's me.. do whatever you feel best OP

Lemming

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

This thread is yet another example (daily on this forum) of the nonsense carry-on in the private rental sector.

What's the public rental sector like?

djimi

While Id usually be the first to suggest that withholding rent should not be considered, and Im not suggesting it now, I have to admit that in this case something a bit more drastic may have to be done. As Kaiser has said, this isnt a minor issue, and its costing the OP a lot of money in ESB bills that they will not be able to recoup. Id be piling on the pressure to get this issue sorted, and Id start making threats of termination pretty sharpish if I lived in a property that has no hot water or a means to wash your clothes (two of the most fundemental of requirements for a rental property). You have been more than patient enough as it is.

Valentine1

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

This thread is yet another example (daily on this forum) of the nonsense carry-on in the private rental sector.
It's all very well to talk about PRTB and hearings and what not but in the interim the OP has no washing machine, no hot water and expensive gas/ESB bills because of this landlord's inaction in the last 2 months.

I'd be ringing her today and telling her I'm getting a washing machine and a plumber in myself on Monday to sort it out and that the cost of same will be deducted from this month's rent - the balance of which she'll be paid after it's sorted.
Why should the OP have to fork out for it AND still pay this idiot her rent when she's stalled him for basically 2 months. In my experience people like that won't be too concerned about "hearings" or what not anyway.....

Clearly the OP has a fairly useless LL but if he acts rashly now it could cost him further down the line. If he is sensible and behaves reasonably towards the LL he can organise to have his hot water fixed and not have to worry about complications in the future.

_Kaiser_

Lemming wrote: »

What's the public rental sector like?

:rolleyes: Nice try! I'm sure you know exactly what I'm referring to.

I'm tired of reading about stories like this. Greedy/naive landlords who haven't a clue about their obligations to the tenant and who can't be bothered educating themselves.

Regardless of the fact that renting is seen as a "poor man's choice" the fact is that it's not cheap to do at all (especially in Dublin) and if I'm going to be handing over over a grand a month for the privilege you can be damn sure I'm not going to be putting up with some of the muppetry you see talked about in this forum.

The OP has been very patient here and given their landlord plenty of time to sort it out and 2 months later, it's still no further than square one. As I said, these are basic essentials for any residence and not a chance would I be continuing to pay for a service I'm not getting.

For what it's worth I've been renting for years and have never had any of these problems and my landlords were both happy to have me and sorry to see me go as they were paid on time, never any hassle, no calls for unnecessary/trivial stuff, and the place was kept perfectly (or better than I found it) - but they also knew that I had certain expectations as well that I expected to be met!

People would quick enough to complain if they were being charged for TV channels they don't get (and rightly so). This is no different.

_Kaiser_

Valentine1 wrote: »

Clearly the OP has a fairly useless LL but if he acts rashly now it could cost him further down the line. If he is sensible and behaves reasonably towards the LL he can organise to have his hot water fixed and not have to worry about complications in the future.

But they've been trying that for 2 months and in the meantime the situation has gotten worse and they're still no closer to getting it sorted. Meanwhile the other bills are mounting up too as a result.

I do get your point and I'd agree about being reasonable insofar as time to fix etc but it'd been 2 months already.. How much longer should they wait?

Valentine1

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

But they've been trying that for 2 months and in the meantime the situation has gotten worse and they're still no closer to getting it sorted. Meanwhile the other bills are mounting up too as a result.

I do get your point and I'd agree about being reasonable insofar as time to fix etc but it'd been 2 months already.. How much longer should they wait?

About a week I'd say. At the most.

The important thing for the OP to do is to give the LL the opportunity to agree to the repairs he has organised before they are carried out. If he doesn't do that he leaves it open for the LL to kick up a fuss about not being consulted.

If the LL does refuse to agree the repairs I would think the OP is in a good position to go ahead with them anyway and deduct them from the rent on the grounds that her refusal was unreasonable. The LL is likely to kick up a fuss about that but the OP is now in a strong position to defend his actions in withholding part of the rent.

Santa Cruz

Never mind all this rubbish about sending reg letters and waiting for days etc. Can't you see that the landlady is just fudging and dodging the expense. Just go and get a plumber, get the job done, get a receipt and deduct the money from the rent. Alternatively play along with her and continue to be exploited

Valentine1

Santa Cruz wrote: »

Never mind all this rubbish about sending reg letters and waiting for days etc. Can't you see that the landlady is just fudging and dodging the expense. Just go and get a plumber, get the job done, get a receipt and deduct the money from the rent. Alternatively play along with her and continue to be exploited

He'll then have plenty of time to read the registered letters she sends him about non payment of rent.

Act in haste repent at leisure.

_Kaiser_

Valentine1 wrote: »

He'll then have plenty of time to read the registered letters she sends him about non payment of rent.

To which the OP can respond about the landlord being in breach of their obligations to maintain the property and including copies of the dates that they were notified/reminded about same but failed to act.

See? Works both ways.. landlord's can't expect people to continue handing over money when they aren't living up to their end of the deal either.

And yes they can go to the PRTB but like most of these bodies/regulators in this country, it's a nice idea in theory but effectively useless as a result of the time and red tape involved. It could be months before the case is even heard. Is the OP just supposed to continue to do without till then?

Again, the OP has given the landlord 2 months to sort it out at this stage and is still being fobbed off. How much is enough?

odds_on

I repeat what I said in a previous post in this thread.


Although not required by law that the tenant notifies the landlord in writing of any issues in the property, it is advisable (and the tenant retains a dated copy) should the tenant wish at a later stage, to terminate the lease agreement, then the law requires that the landlord was notified in writing of the issues.
Where the issues have a significant reduction in the quality of the tenant’s or other such occupants’ living environment, and the landlord has failed to remedy the issues within a reasonable time, or if, after all reasonable attempts, the landlord or his authorised agent could not be contacted to make the request concerned then the tenant may have the issues remedied himself and be reimbursed for all vouched expenses (i.e. withhold rent to the value of those expenses).

If, on the other hand, provided the landlord has been notified in writing of the issues, the tenant may vacate because the issues have not been remedied, the tenant may serve a Notice of termination giving 28 days notice.

MarthaMyDear

Thanks for all the replies so far, I'm taking them all on board!

MarthaMyDear

Update on this-opinions would be greatly appreciated.

So we did pay our rent after learning on this thread that legally we couldn't with hold it. I contacted the landlady the day the rent was due saying that the issue of having no hot water for showers or washing machine had gone on too long and could we please have permission to sort it ourselves. She said someone would be there the following day-no show. She text me to say the plumber had been delayed and would be there Monday without a doubt. I waited in the house all day Monday, afraid to move in case I missed him but still no show. I text her at six pm saying there was still no sign of a plumber and could she please call down to the house to talk to us.

My phone rang then and I assume it was her husband. He basically ate the head off me on the phone. He said they had to deal with a particular agency as the house is under warrenty and it wasn't his fault that the plumber kept cancelling. He was shouting and cursing on the phone and wouldn't let me speak at all. He said that this issue was stressful for them and wasting a lot of their time. He also made out like I was harrassing them, when if anything I didn't chase them up enough. He also said the house was owned by a few people and that was why this was taking so long.

I tried to explain our side but he just kept cutting across me and saying if we weren't happy there he would give us 30 days notice and return our deposit. He said this about 5 times. I asked a few different questions like who exactly was our landlord and what agency are they dealing with for the plumber but he wouldn't answer he just said "that's neither here nor there".

I was totally shocked by the call and nearly in tears after the way he spoke to me. He said a "rep" of the landlords would be here tomorrow evening to speak to us-still no plumber.

Long story short he was basically saying on the phone that this was an inconvience for him trying to chase up a particular plumber and if we weren't happy about it we could leave. I tried to explain a few times that we had no idea that they had to deal with one plumber because of the warrenty but he wasn't too interested in what I had to say.

Also no mention of the washing machine during this call!

djimi

None of his nonsense is your problem. Write to them, informing them that you are fed up of their excuses, and that if the issue isn't resolved within the week you will be terminating the lease on the grounds that the house is currently not habitable without running hot water.

To be honest at the point you might be as well taking him up on his offer of a deposit return in 30 days. These people are clearly too disorganised to be running a tenancy and you are better off away from them.

_Kaiser_

Normally I'd be in favour of teaching these idiots a lesson by making their life as miserable as possible - complaints lodged, everything in writing from here on out, possibly threatening legal action and I'd certainly not be spoken to by someone like you were OP... for future reference, if that happens again I'd hang up and text that you refuse to be abused like that by ANYONE and until he can discuss it in a civilsed manner, you have nothing to discuss (or he can do so through your solicitor).

But because ultimately the possibility of getting anything sorted is slim without the time, patience and money required to do so (and meanwhile you still have no hot water or washing machine) I'd send them a registered letter in the morning stating that you will be vacating in 30 days on the grounds djimi suggests and that you expect your deposit returned in full on that date, no later.

Good luck OP

the_syco

MarthaMyDear wrote: »

My phone rang then and I assume it was her husband. He basically ate the head off me on the phone. He said they had to deal with a particular agency as the house is under warrenty and it wasn't his fault that the plumber kept cancelling.

House warranty? Bullsh|t. He's trying to fob you off.

MarthaMyDear wrote: »

but he just kept cutting across me and saying if we weren't happy there he would give us 30 days notice and return our deposit.

Take the money and run, tbh.

Also, as he sounds like a f**king jackass, make it clear you'll expect the deposit on the day that you hand over the keys, and not a moment afterwards. Otherwise, let him go through the process of evicting you. After tearing the ear off you, cause the little **** some trouble.

Wait a month after you leave, and send a letter to the address, addressed to the "new tenants", and give them a heads up.

D3PO

OP that waffle from the LL's husband is just that waffle.

Contact them again and be firm advise them that the issues they are encountering with getting a plumber are their issues and not yours, and that they have until the end of the week to resolve the problem.

Advise them you are raising a dispute with the PRTB regarding this and that if not resolved by Friday you will get your own plumber and you will be deducting the cost from next months rent. Tell them you are aware of the legal position in this regard and also make sure you put all this in writing to them.

Then go get a plumber and get it sorted. They are taking the piss, they clearly are amateur landlords havent a bulls notion what they are doing and what they must legally do for their tenants.

odds_on

Write to the landlord (Express post - does not require a signature and guaranteed delivery by An Post) and inform him/her that you are now lodging claim with the PRTB for damages - stress, inconvenience, breach of landlord's obligations as regards Housing standards, breach of landlord's obligations as to keeping in good repair, fridge, oven, no hot water and faulty washing machine (and any other issues you have had) and landlord's breach of obligations as regards the emergency contact number not being responded to as well as the inconvenience of not having the use of the above mentioned items for over 2 months. You can also claim for the PRTB claim fee of 25 euros.

If the tenancy is not registered, the the landlord will have more problems, but it does not affect the tenant.

Although the PRTB are slow, IMHO, it will be well worth your while to make this claim as the PRTB are very much against any landlord who does not follow the law. Damages for this could well go into 4 figures.

djimi

Out of interest, how does Express Post guarantee a delivery if it doesnt require a signature? As in, how does it differ from regular post?

Valentine1

If my Landlord spoke to me like that after failing to resolve hot water issues for so long I would have to reach the conclusion that they were rude, unprofessional, perhaps slightly deranged and clearly incapable of managing a rental property. Its not that hard to organise a plumber and its not that hard to be polite to Tenants.

Dealing with them is not going to get any easier from here, if the offer of 30 days notice and a returned deposit is goer at all I would seriously consider taking it.

MarthaMyDear

Thanks again for all your replies. I was close to hanging up the phone on him! Although what I want to do is give my notice we have been looking online and they're aren't any properties that are suitable and the same price in the area. For work and family reasons this house is the perfect location so I don't want the hassle of all of us packing up and leaving because of him.
He said on the phone "you have no right to get your own plumber". The rep is coming this evening so I want to know legally how much longer we can wait for a plumber before we organise one because I'll be telling him that. Also I think I will lodge a complaint with the PRTB as I want some consequences for his rudeness that don't involve us having to relocate! Should I tell this man tonight we are complaining? Anything else I should say to him? I want to be prepared. This guy isn't even our landlord though I don't know who he is!

djimi

You have every right to get your own plumber if the problem persists long enough, once you inform the landlord in writing.

If this guy isnt your landlord then you hang up the phone immediately the next time he calls, and if you get messages/calls like that again then pass them onto the Gardai and file a complaint for harrassment.