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A Slow Journey to Faster Times
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I'm not going to lie, I'm no expert on it.
You'd probably be better off consulting a coach who could give you a proper schedule for stuff like that (e.g. a driving instructor). I'm probably doing everything wrong or in the incorrect order, hence the poor race performances. Wouldn't want to similarly misguide anybody else.
Thanks - was so bad on Sunday I thought I might need a rehabilitation programme but now I'm not so sure
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Sorry, still getting used to the nuances of this forum, initially it came across as making fun of someone or general banter.
As you said though some likes will be alike, there only so many different ways to train and things haven't changed all that much over the years.
Too used to reading between the lines
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A couple of years ago I had sciatica-type pain down the back of one leg (the left). On long car journeys it would get genuinely excruciating. I would be pushing myself up off the seat with the right leg so that my head was touching the roof, trying to stretch the left leg or find a comfortable position.
Sounds similar - have also had a niggle in my glute on & off and an issue with my right arm for about 6 weeks - all the same side & possibly connected I'd say
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Myles Splitz wrote: »Sorry, still getting used to the nuances of this forum, initially it came across as making fun of someone or general banter.
As you said though some likes will be alike, there only so many different ways to train and things haven't changed all that much over the years.
Too used to reading between the lines
You're not alone in your thinking on this one, when I first read yaboya's latest log update I thought he was having a pop at a couple of logs.
But if Yaboya says he didn't then I guess I have to believe that as I always thought of him as a stand up kind of guy.0 -
You're not alone in your thinking on this one, when I first read yaboya's latest log update I thought he was having a pop at a couple of logs.
But if Yaboya says he didn't then I guess I have to believe that as I always thought of him as a stand up kind of guy.
Thanks for that
I thought taking the mick out of myself was ok, but it seems I may have been wrong. In future I'll bring my Garmin everywhere and post the link to avoid such confusion.0 -
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Serious question
How do you think your running sabbatical impacts on your results? Do you see it as a need mental and physical break that helps you in the long run (restores motivation etc.)?
We are quite different when it comes to training. I am on on/on runner (to my detriment a lot of the time) and you are an on/off runner. When you are 'on' there is no doubt you train hard and smart. Without really knowing, I wonder is there a possible ideal compromise between these two contrasting approaches. It crossed my mind during a run that you possibly could benefit from just simply ticking over for a number of weeks after a marathon. Then again, I am not convinced!
Hope that makes sense.0 -
dublin runner wrote: »Serious question
How do you think your running sabbatical impacts on your results? Do you see it as a need mental and physical break that helps you in the long run (restores motivation etc.)?
Honestly? Probably not positively. I definitely don't think it 'helps' me. I'm just prone to going from flat out to zero after a marathon, because that's usually the ultimate goal and I'm a little bit aimless afterwards. Even in the case where I'm already signed up for something else (NYC) because it's so far away.dublin runner wrote: »We are quite different when it comes to training. I am on on/on runner (to my detriment a lot of the time) and you are an on/off runner. When you are 'on' there is no doubt you train hard and smart. Without really knowing, I wonder is there a possible ideal compromise between these two contrasting approaches. It crossed my mind during a run that you possibly could benefit from just simply ticking over for a number of weeks after a marathon. Then again, I am not convinced!
Hope that makes sense.
I would like to think there is a compromise and hope to see the results to match when I eventually cop on to doing things the right way. I definitely agree with the ticking over part. After I ran Seville last year, I was back running after 3/4 days and within 2 weeks was running pbs, continuing to do so all the way up to Berlin. In fact, the Dublin Marathon was the first time I failed to pb in a race......ever!
If you want the honest truth I don't think I've been anywhere near the shape I was in last summer since Berlin. I've slacked off in one department or the other, but feel like I'm getting away with it by running similar times or narrow pbs. My lifestyle is not an ideal one for a runner, but I've always been averse to making big sacrifices as it may then become a chore which I don't want. In saying that, I don't feel like I make any at the moment. Bar putting the miles in, I didn't forego anything in the run up to Hamburg, whereas even back as far as Dublin 2010 my diet was better and I gave up alcohol for the guts of two months. Whether that has made a big difference, I really don't know. I suppose I might have to try out a more professional approach to find out. We'll see. The 'beer' mile being my next race (with pints afterwards) probably doesn't help there
Regarding the total exodus from running recently, a lot of that has been down to a change in working hours and problems with transport etc.
It has just been really difficult to organise getting myself out the door for a few miles (believe it or not). However, everyone has issues like this in their day to day lives so it's not really a valid excuse. I had put today in the calendar as the one where I stopped messing around and got back out there. I'll be hitting the road sometime this evening. Haven't decided how far yet.0 -
Honestly? Probably not positively. I definitely don't think it 'helps' me. I'm just prone to going from flat out to zero after a marathon, because that's usually the ultimate goal and I'm a little bit aimless afterwards. Even in the case where I'm already signed up for something else (NYC) because it's so far away.
I would like to think there is a compromise and hope to see the results to match when I eventually cop on to doing things the right way. I definitely agree with the ticking over part. After I ran Seville last year, I was back running after 3/4 days and within 2 weeks was running pbs, continuing to do so all the way up to Berlin. In fact, the Dublin Marathon was the first time I failed to pb in a race......ever!
If you want the honest truth I don't think I've been anywhere near the shape I was in last summer since Berlin. I've slacked off in one department or the other, but feel like I'm getting away with it by running similar times or narrow pbs. My lifestyle is not an ideal one for a runner, but I've always been averse to making big sacrifices as it may then become a chore which I don't want. In saying that, I don't feel like I make any at the moment. Bar putting the miles in, I didn't forego anything in the run up to Hamburg, whereas even back as far as Dublin 2010 my diet was better and I gave up alcohol for the guts of two months. Whether that has made a big difference, I really don't know. I suppose I might have to try out a more professional approach to find out. We'll see. The 'beer' mile being my next race (with pints afterwards) probably doesn't help there
Regarding the total exodus from running recently, a lot of that has been down to a change in working hours and problems with transport etc.
It has just been really difficult to organise getting myself out the door for a few miles (believe it or not). However, everyone has issues like this in their day to day lives so it's not really a valid excuse. I had put today in the calendar as the one where I stopped messing around and got back out there. I'll be hitting the road sometime this evening. Haven't decided how far yet.
I suppose it's all about balance. Very few of us achieve this as it's a very hard act to master. I guess experience helps us.
The thing is (which I am learning) is that running is a discipline of diminishing returns. I think after NYC you need to go back to basics in ways. I don't mean that in a bad way, it's what I am sort of doing now. If you want to improve at a certain distance training for that distance isn't always the optimal approach. Sometimes you a have tackle the distance from a new fresh angle. Like me, speed/leg turnover is your achilles heel. If the marathon is what you want to be 'best' at your have to seriously attack your shorter distances. If you look at most of the top runner there times line up, from 5k to marathon.
The great thing is that the glass is half full! Having never gone through a 5/10k training programme you will see massive gains. For you I would say huge even.
It's hard (and very very easy) to fall into marathon training after marathon training. I think having more shape to your season will also keep the mind fresh and motivation even higher.
Something to think about.
P.S Don't even think about beating me next week.....hahaha!:pac:0 -
Update: 59.38 miles in the last 10 days
Less than I would like, but have been forced to take some rest/recovery days through no fault of my own. Anyway good to be back on the horse. Most of these were 'easy' effort, but felt like far more of a struggle than they should have. Probably all psychological though, as the few miles I ran with FBOT01 felt much less difficult than the rest.
Tuesday 2nd June: 60 minutes Easy
Wednesday 3rd June A.M.: 40 minutes Easy
Wednesday 3rd June P.M.: 80 minutes Easy
Thursday 4th June A.M.: 50 minutes Easy
Thursday 4th June P.M.: 40 minutes Easy
Friday 5th June: 90 minutes Easy
Saturday 6th June: 45 minutes Easy
Wednesday 10th June: 80 minutes Easy
I'm hoping to get a few miles in after work tomorrow, before a warm-up on Saturday morning pacing at the St Anne's parkrun. After that it's the main event 0 -
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Saturday 13th June - 5k parkrun pacing
4.94k @ 4:35min/km average
I was given the 23 minute pacing job in St Annes this morning. Changed the watch to kms but forgot to change the auto-lap, so the splits themselves are in miles. Think I helped a couple of Raheny girls hit their target as they passed me in the last 100m. Came in around 22:45 (would have been closer to 23:00 only watch measured slightly short). I was also a bit paranoid about missing the starting gun by a few seconds.That's the warm up done and I got the beer mile equivalent of strides in last night (pints). Roll on 7:30
Splits:
Mile 1 - 7:23
Mile 2 - 7:23
Mile 3 - 7:23
0.11 - 0:300 -
Saturday 13th June (P.M.) - Boards Beer Mile (8:27 unofficial)
I'll post a full report tomorrow when I get a chance, but for the moment here's my Garmin link: https://connect.garmin.com/activity/804237854
Very happy with a 3+ minute pb 0 -
Saturday 13th June (P.M.) - Boards Beer Mile (8:27 unofficial)
I'll post a full report tomorrow when I get a chance, but for the moment here's my Garmin link: https://connect.garmin.com/activity/804237854
Very happy with a 3+ minute pb
The timing/pace chart for this on Garmin is a thing of beauty. Those stops were sudden!0 -
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Saturday 13th June (P.M.) - Boards Beer Mile (8:27 unofficial)
I'll post a full report tomorrow when I get a chance, but for the moment here's my Garmin link: https://connect.garmin.com/activity/804237854
Very happy with a 3+ minute pb
That looks very like a 70 second last lap, you were moving at 4;30/mile pace for the most of it.
No wonder I had to turn on the after burners to stay ahead :eek:0 -
Boards Beer Mile 2015 (8:27)
This would be my second Beer Mile. Last year was a bit of a shock to the system, having never experienced anything remotely similar and running on tired legs from a 19 mile LSR that morning. I knew I was way better prepared this year.
Pre-Race
My goal since crossing the finish line in 11:30 last year was to improve to at least a sub 10 this year (Why is this not on the round numbers thread btw?)
I put in two really solid training sessions though, so that by the time the race rolled around I was very confident of a sub 9 and hopeful of even better. I warmed up for the event with a few beers on Friday night, followed by a pacing gig at the St Anne's parkrun on Saturday morning. The preparation was almost parallel to an elite Olympian. I'd have no excuses.
The Race
I lined up at the start waiting for annapr and the timing crew to give us the go ahead. Having spent the previous twenty minutes laughing, joking and participating in general banter on the infield, the start line was eerily quiet. The pre-race nerves were kicking in. Novices & veterans alike frozen solid from fear of failure. Chivito even dropped his bottle on the ground, his hand muscles paralysed from the pressure of his own expectation after two afternoon pbs and a solid block of training. Then we got a '3-2-1-Go!' and the silence was broken with the sound of 25 beers being cracked open simultaneously. The 2015 National Championship was under way.
Beer 1: 0:25 I've just knocked back a beer in 25 seconds and I'm not even in the top 20. Wtf? However I didn't panic. This is a mile, not a 400m or even a 200m as recent early leaders have discovered to their demise. I knew I'd be overtaking many by the end and stuck to my original strategy.
Run 1: 1:29 I remember passing meno (as he has mentioned), but not a lot else. I was totally focused on burping and expelling as much gas as possible before the lap was over. I was probably a bit too conservative and possibly could have gone a little faster, but was always reminding myself of how fine the line is between too slow and a pukefest.
Beer 2: 0:38 Slower than the first, but that was to be expected. I made a lot of places in this transition as the beer 200m/400m specialists started to struggle. This is where the marathon training and specific beer mile sessions start to kick in. I was happy to see it had been all worthwhile. Meno still got away ahead of me though.
Run 2: 1:24 A little quicker than the first lap and passed meno once again. The field was starting to sort itself out now and positions wouldn't change an awful lot around me from here on in. I knew I'd be battling meno all the way to the line just like last year.
Beer 3: 0:46 Slightly slower again, but far better than last year where I was taking double the time at this stage. Meno away in front of me again. Myself and KU were having a similar battle, with me getting away in front and him overtaking me on the lap.
Run 3: 1:33 Disappointed with this lap. I lost focus halfway down the back straight and got engaged in a full blown conversation with meno as we watched the epic finish on the other side. Maybe if I'd kicked on here instead I'd have beat him.
Beer 4: 0:51 Inevitably this was the slowest transition of the night. Anyone who has done a beer mile will understand that's going to be the case. Happy enough with it. I remember it well and couldn't have got it down any quicker. Meno on the other hand took an insurmountable fifteen second lead on me here. I was sure I saw beer/froth spewing out of the bottle as he tossed it aside and raised a Hawkeye style challenge as a result. The umpire (Dubgal72) waved my objections away. As I moved away in vain pursuit, I noticed KU was still drinking his last beer. I couldn't believe it. This time last year himself & Dogslysmile were about to lap me!
Run 4: 1:14 I had almost managed to expel any gas and bloatedness by the time I hit the first bend, so knew I could put the hammer down as a result. Meno was a long way ahead at this stage though and I knew it was very unlikely I would catch him. I could feel myself gaining all the time, but in the straight I just ran out of ground. He took a sneaky look over his shoulder before he celebrated just to make sure
I ran all the way through the finish and was given 8th position with a time of 8:27. I've lost seven seconds in there somewhere, but I don't know where as I've watched the video a few times now and that's the best I can come up with :P
Verdict
Very happy with the result, as sub 9 was the goal going in and I was considerably better than that. Disgusted Little bit disappointed I didn't beat meno though. Delighted to finish ahead of some top athletes, especially KU who lapped me last year. I think we have to recognise that anyone (KU, Chivito, Timaay) who ran a race in lecheile earlier that afternoon seriously underperformed though, so it's a bit of a hollow victory. Those races obviously took a lot out of the lads. Some top performances by a fair few debutants with plenty of sub 10's which is really impressive. Finally a big thanks to TRR for organising such a wonderful event and an even bigger shout out to the volunteers and spectators who attended on the night (pity you had to put up with meno's moaning!
). It was hugely appreciated by all taking part. I know a few names, but not all and I don't want to leave anyone out.
Until next year.......0 -
That looks very like a 70 second last lap, you were moving at 4;30/mile pace for the most of it.
No wonder I had to turn on the after burners to stay ahead :eek:
Good strategy, Meno, slowing him down by engaging him in conversation... cunning! A beer mile version of good ol' Tyrone trash talk 0 -
Good strategy, Meno, slowing him down by engaging him in conversation... cunning! A beer mile version of good ol' Tyrone trash talk
Thanks yeah, I tried it on lap 1 too but he wasn't chatting, I managed to take those 3 crucial seconds off him on lap 3 though by commenting on the national record up front. He slowed right down for that chat. 0 -
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Good strategy, Meno, slowing him down by engaging him in conversation... cunning! A beer mile version of good ol' Tyrone trash talkThanks yeah, I tried it on lap 1 too but he wasn't chatting, I managed to take those 3 crucial seconds off him on lap 3 though by commenting on the national record up front. He slowed right down for that chat.
Is that something they teach ye in school up there ??0 -
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Update:
Rest day from running on Sunday. Was supposed to play golf at 1pm, but was actually 30 minutes late arriving at the course due to Saturday evening's exertions. Beer mile pbs/celebrations are hard!
Monday 15th June: 45 minutes Easy - Very easy run in the evening sunshine.
Tuesday 16th June: 100 minutes Easy - Met up with FBOT01 for most of these miles. Time ticked by pretty quickly with company.
Wednesday 17th June: 60 minutes Easy - Breezy out there this morning and very, very warm despite the lack of sun. Really enjoyed it though. The most pleasant run I've had on my own since Hamburg. Although all my recent runs have been at easy effort, my legs have felt wooden at times but this morning all was good
Thought of the day
Isn't it funny how attitudes differ between runners and non-runners?
This morning I told my room mate I was headed out for a run just before I left the apartment. He asked how far was I going. I said "Probably just an hour or so" with the emphasis very much on the word 'just'. "A long one so" he replied, completely serious. I chuckled and said "Yeah, I suppose so", even though 'long' is not a word I ever would have used to describe what I was about to do. Just thought it was an interesting observation. Maybe not :P0 -
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Monday 22nd June (P.M.): 5 miles Recovery - Slowest I've run in a long time, but it was a thoroughly enjoyable jaunt around the PP that left me feeling refreshed as was the intention. Job done! Average HR - 115bpm
Tuesday 23rd June: 105 minutes Easy - A dry run ahead of my pacing gig in Clontarf on Saturday week. Even took in the beach for good measure. I better go a bit faster on the day, otherwise there'll be plenty of unsatisfied runners to answer to afterwards! HR was steady around 132bpm the whole way, but rose closer to 140 towards the end. Totally down to the heat I think. The only respite from the heat came from the breeze caused by a flying MrsMc whizzing by in the other direction. It reminded me of the road runner, but instead of saying 'Beep beep', she said 'Hiya P' :pac:. I think she was already gone 100m past me before I got the chance to respond. She looks like she's just returned from a Kenyan training camp, rather than a sun holiday. I think some targets may be revised come October. Average HR - 134bpm
Wednesday 24th June (A.M.): 35 minutes Easy - Another easy run before breakfast just to keep the legs ticking over. Average HR - 133bpm
I'm toying with the idea of completing the 2400m test later this evening. It should give me a fair idea of whereabouts I'm at before I get stuck into more marathon training. Hopefully (but not likely) it will compare favourably with my results from mid-December. Once I hit 5.7m or more in total tonight, I'll pass 1000 for the year, almost 2 weeks later than last year and more than 6 weeks later than the excel spreadsheet was predicting in April. Shows how much I slacked off in May :cool:0 -
Monday 22nd June (P.M.): 5 miles Recovery - Slowest I've run in a long time, but it was a thoroughly enjoyable jaunt around the PP that left me feeling refreshed as was the intention. Job done! Average HR - 115bpm
Tuesday 23rd June: 105 minutes Easy - A dry run ahead of my pacing gig in Clontarf on Saturday week. Even took in the beach for good measure. I better go a bit faster on the day, otherwise there'll be plenty of unsatisfied runners to answer to afterwards! HR was steady around 132bpm the whole way, but rose closer to 140 towards the end. Totally down to the heat I think. The only respite from the heat came from the breeze caused by a flying MrsMc whizzing by in the other direction. It reminded me of the road runner, but instead of saying 'Beep beep', she said 'Hiya P' :pac:. I think she was already gone 100m past me before I got the chance to respond. She looks like she's just returned from a Kenyan training camp, rather than a sun holiday. I think some targets may be revised come October. Average HR - 134bpm
Wednesday 24th June (A.M.): 35 minutes Easy - Another easy run before breakfast just to keep the legs ticking over. Average HR - 133bpm
I'm toying with the idea of completing the 2400m test later this evening. It should give me a fair idea of whereabouts I'm at before I get stuck into more marathon training. Hopefully (but not likely) it will compare favourably with my results from mid-December. Once I hit 5.7m or more in total tonight, I'll pass 1000 for the year, almost 2 weeks later than last year and more than 6 weeks later than the excel spreadsheet was predicting in April. Shows how much I slacked off in May :cool:
Wasn't going fast at all and easy 4 miler was on the cards yest so was struggling trying to get the pace right as I've crossed over to miles from km ! Don't be saying I was going fast Dubgal will be giving out to me !!!!0 -
Wednesday 24th June (P.M.) - HADD 2400m Test
I left this until after 10pm, but it was still extremely humid outside when I eventually hit the road. Doesn't compare very favourably with the last one of these I did, but conditions were the complete opposite that day as I mentioned at the time. The only reason the lower HR's were faster tonight was because I did some strides before any of the intervals last time, which had the heart going quicker than it should have been early on. All in all though, I'm pretty happy with the results considering the night that's in it and the fact that I'm nowhere near full fitness. Also found the session as a whole way less difficult than I expected to. The last section (170bpm) was the only one where I was really hurting. Passed the 1000 mile mark for the year somewhere in the middle (finally!)
Results are below (I'll post the Garmin link when I upload it tomorrow):
1k warm up (8:31min/mile @ 127bpm avg)
2400m @ 130 bpm (Actual 131 bpm) - 8:45 min/mile average
2400m @ 140 bpm (Actual 141 bpm) - 7:54 min/mile average
2400m @ 150 bpm (Actual 151 bpm) - 7:09 min/mile average
2400m @ 160 bpm (Actual 160 bpm) - 6:31 min/mile average
2400m @ 170 bpm (Actual 169 bpm) - 5:58 min/mile average
1k cool down (8:15 min/mile @ 150bpm avg)0 -
Wednesday 24th June (P.M.) - HADD 2400m Test
I left this until after 10pm, but it was still extremely humid outside when I eventually hit the road. Doesn't compare very favourably with the last one of these I did, but conditions were the complete opposite that day as I mentioned at the time. The only reason the lower HR's were faster tonight was because I did some strides before any of the intervals last time, which had the heart going quicker than it should have been early on. All in all though, I'm pretty happy with the results considering the night that's in it and the fact that I'm nowhere near full fitness. Also found the session as a whole way less difficult than I expected to. The last section (170bpm) was the only one where I was really hurting. Passed the 1000 mile mark for the year somewhere in the middle (finally!)
Results are below (I'll post the Garmin link when I upload it tomorrow):
1k warm up (8:31min/mile @ 127bpm avg)
2400m @ 130 bpm (Actual 131 bpm) - 8:45 min/mile average
2400m @ 140 bpm (Actual 141 bpm) - 7:54 min/mile average
2400m @ 150 bpm (Actual 151 bpm) - 7:09 min/mile average
2400m @ 160 bpm (Actual 160 bpm) - 6:31 min/mile average
2400m @ 170 bpm (Actual 169 bpm) - 5:58 min/mile average
1k cool down (8:15 min/mile @ 150bpm avg)
Interesting. I'm kinda thinking of going down this road next year. Just to see. I'll be picking your brains like mad if I do go with it. I've even got a name for the log.
I've been HADD0 -
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Ok so I need to ask the stooopid question... What was the HADD test and what did it tell you? And yes I looked at the Garmin data, but still have no idea...
Anna, I will give you my take on it which may be wrong so P can correct me if it is. The 2400m test provides a reference point for HADD training (which is HR based stuff. Google it if you have a spare week anytime to get your head around it).
After doing the test he will now go into a structure training phase with his weekly programme being dictated by time based runs done at certain heart rates.
If training is working and he does the test again in 6 weeks or more he should see an improvement in pace at the given heart rates.
You need to be patient and disciplined for this type of training but it is supposed to be very good for improving your long term aerobic and endurance capacity. Not something you do for a quick fix or if you are looking for very short-term improvement..........one step back two step forward type thing.0 -
Anna, I will give you my take on it which may be wrong so P can correct me if it is. The 2400m test provides a reference point for HADD training (which is HR based stuff. Google it if you have a spare week anytime to get your head around it).
After doing the test he will now go into a structure training phase with his weekly programme being dictated by time based runs done at certain heart rates.
If training is working and he does the test again in 6 weeks or more he should see an improvement in pace at the given heart rates.
You need to be patient and disciplined for this type of training but it is supposed to be very good for improving your long term aerobic and endurance capacity. Not something you do for a quick fix or if you are looking for very short-term improvement..........one step back two step forward type thing.
Thanks M, I'm vaguely familiar with HADD from this log and others... I just wasn't sure what the test was testing or telling P... so does the test dictate the heart rates for the next phase of training or is it more of a benchmark?0 -
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