A Slow Journey to Faster Times

FBOT01

annapr wrote: »

Thanks M, I'm vaguely familiar with HADD from this log and others... I just wasn't sure what the test was testing or telling P... so does the test dictate the heart rates for the next phase of training or is it more of a benchmark?

It is a benchmark.

yaboya1

Thursday 25th June (P.M.): 75 minutes Easy - Amazing what a little splash of rain can do. Seems to have taken all the humidity out of the air. Last night I could only hit 8:45min/mile pace for less than a mile and a half at 131bpm, yet tonight I held 8:22min/mile pace for 9 miles at 1bpm lower. Just shows how much external conditions have to be taken into account. Average HR - 130bpm.

yaboya1

FBOT01 wrote: »

Anna, I will give you my take on it which may be wrong so P can correct me if it is. The 2400m test provides a reference point for HADD training (which is HR based stuff. Google it if you have a spare week anytime to get your head around it ).

After doing the test he will now go into a structure training phase with his weekly programme being dictated by time based runs done at certain heart rates.

If training is working and he does the test again in 6 weeks or more he should see an improvement in pace at the given heart rates.

You need to be patient and disciplined for this type of training but it is supposed to be very good for improving your long term aerobic and endurance capacity. Not something you do for a quick fix or if you are looking for very short-term improvement..........one step back two step forward type thing.

Excellently put

I don't think I can do any better than that.

laura_ac3

I think I was out before that splash of rain so, I found it such tough going this evening. So heavy in the air, kept my HR well consistent in easy range throughout but my last mile was the slowest it's been for ages (10:40ish). That was into a deceptive stiff breeze on the coast too, but as you say, external conditions can have such an impact.

yaboya1

laura_ac3 wrote: »

I think I was out before that splash of rain so, I found it such tough going this evening. So heavy in the air, kept my HR well consistent in easy range throughout but my last mile was the slowest it's been for ages (10:40ish). That was into a deceptive stiff breeze on the coast too, but as you say, external conditions can have such an impact.

Yes. I ran for half an hour less this morning at the exact same HR as tonight, but was 21 seconds per mile slower. Good news for anyone whose marathon pb was set in Dublin last October. We can't get those conditions again, can we?

Notwork Error

This log has swung into action over the last few days. Good to see you getting back into man!

annapr

yaboya1 wrote: »

Yes. I ran for half an hour less this morning at the exact same HR as tonight, but was 21 seconds per mile slower. Good news for anyone whose marathon pb was set in Dublin last October. We can't get those conditions again, can we?

jayzis i really hope not... I'll take gale force winds and rain over it anyday :eek:

yaboya1

Friday 26th June: 60 minutes Easy - Delighted to get this in before work this morning. I'm going to give myself the day off tomorrow now, before getting some sort of double figure run in on Sunday evening. That will give me between 70-80m for the week. A solid start to my marathon training. Average HR - 131bpm.

*I think today's workout proves that Garmins are only a training aid and we cannot ever place implicit trust in them. My average HR for the hour this morning was 131bpm. It never wavered far above that, yet my Garmin gave me some ridiculous splits and moving paces. At one stage it told me I was moving at 2:12min/mile pace. The world record is 3:43:13 ffs! In the end it said I had run 9.5m @ 6:19min/mile average pace. I can assure you this was not the case and I didn't get near the 4:51 & 4:13 miles that it claims I did. I measured the route on Google maps when I got to work and that gave me 12.1km, which is about 7.5m. Some simple maths gives me 7.5m @ 8:00min/mile pace. That sounds about right.

Dubgal72

Garmins... :rolleyes:

Murph_D

Wait for a signal next time.

Not hard to see what went wrong looking at that trace!

yaboya1

Murph_D wrote: »

Wait for a signal next time.

Not hard to see what went wrong looking at that trace!

I did wait for the signal. Must have lost it again though

yaboya1

Sunday 28th June - 75 minutes Steady
10.5m @ 7:08p/m average (156bpm)

I'll post the Garmin stats when I upload them tomorrow. I haven't got exact splits now as my battery is gone dead. I do know I was slowing as the run went on. Cardiac drift. A big change to the last time I completed this session a fortnight before Hamburg:

yaboya1 wrote: »

Monday 13th April (P.M) - 75 minutes Steady
11.5m @ 6:31p/m average (155bpm avg)

I remember how easy that felt at the time. Even then I couldn't hold the same pace in the marathon. Tonight was manageable, but not comfortable. I'm a fair bit off where I was, but I'll get back there soon. It is worrying that I'm 20 seconds a mile off the pace I held for a whole marathon though. Shows how much damage I've done by doing nothing. When I get back to that level at 155bpm and it feels comfortable, I can move up to 160bpm and then finally 165. If I manage to do that, I fancy a huge pb in New York (despite the tough course). It won't be easy, but it will be so worth it if I do. I might even run a negative split and hit my race day target for the first time ever (fantasising now :P)

Murph_D

Weather might have something to do with it too?

yaboya1

Last night's session (including 1 w/u mile & 2 c/d miles):

https://connect.garmin.com/activity/818622616


Since I'm off work today, I had originally planned doing a recovery double. But I felt a bit lethargic and stiff this morning, so went for a swim and a 30k cycle instead. I'm going to head out for my run in the next hour or so. Plan for the rest of the week is mostly easy miles with another Steady session on Wednesday, before pacing 1:45 in Clontarf on Saturday. Will post details of all runs when I get a chance. Quite busy this week so it might be the weekend before my next update.

Itziger

yaboya1 wrote: »

Sunday 28th June - 75 minutes Steady
10.5m @ 7:08p/m average (156bpm)

I'll post the Garmin stats when I upload them tomorrow. I haven't got exact splits now as my battery is gone dead. I do know I was slowing as the run went on. Cardiac drift. A big change to the last time I completed this session a fortnight before Hamburg:



I remember how easy that felt at the time. Even then I couldn't hold the same pace in the marathon. Tonight was manageable, but not comfortable. I'm a fair bit off where I was, but I'll get back there soon. It is worrying that I'm 20 seconds a mile off the pace I held for a whole marathon though. Shows how much damage I've done by doing nothing. When I get back to that level at 155bpm and it feels comfortable, I can move up to 160bpm and then finally 165. If I manage to do that, I fancy a huge pb in New York (despite the tough course). It won't be easy, but it will be so worth it if I do. I might even run a negative split and hit my race day target for the first time ever (fantasising now :P)

Stunningly similar to my dreams. (You forgot the bit about meeting a stunning Cubanita and running the last few miles with her )

FBOT01

Murph_D wrote: »

Weather might have something to do with it too?

The running/cardiac drift or the fantasising, Murph?

Itziger wrote: »

Stunningly similar to my dreams. (You forgot the bit about meeting a stunning Cubanita and running the last few miles with her )

Itziger, are these dreams about Yaboya a new thing?

Itziger

FBOT01 wrote: »

The running/cardiac drift or the fantasising, Murph?



Itziger, are these dreams about Yaboya a new thing?

It's all good now. #RainbowRunners

yaboya1

Monday 29th June - 50 minutes Recovery

Second successive Monday I've run a really slow five miles. Really seems to freshen me up though. Might continue the trend.


Tuesday 30th June - Rest

Not completely intentional, but on days when I work a 12 hour shift it can be hard to fit a run in. Today I didn't manage it.


Wednesday 1st July - 75 minutes Steady

I guessed the results of this would be fairly meaningless considering the sweltering heat at the moment, but I thought it would be a good workout nonetheless. I held a consistent effort all the way through and averaged 155bpm on the button this time. Splits and pace decrease towards the end almost identical to last Sunday. It's tough out there at the moment, no matter what pace/HR you run at. The longer you're out there, the more you suffer. I feel sorry for anyone racing the Clontarf HM this Saturday. Certainly not ideal conditions for a long distance event. Speaking of which (I hope I'm wrong), I think there may be some issues on Saturday. The already narrow shared section after you come off the Causeway has a lot of growth on the cycle path. So much that I can't see it being possible to run on. Unless it's removed by the council in the next two days (which I doubt), I can see it causing serious problems.

menoscemo

yaboya1 wrote: »

It's tough out there at the moment, no matter what pace/HR you run at. The longer you're out there, the more you suffer. I feel sorry for anyone racing the Clontarf HM this Saturday. Certainly not ideal conditions for a long distance event.

+1
You wanna swap?

annapr

There's a lot of construction going on at the beginning of the Clontarf HM course too, around Alfie Byrne road... I love that route for training but always think it's very exposed for a race -- sun, wind... and the bit on the causeway where runners mix with cars and pedestrians looked dodgy to me last year. But at least it's very flat

Killerz

See you on Saturday PD - not looking forward to negotiating that jungle of ragworth or whatever the hell it is on the bike track... I wouldnt bet on it being removed by then, but who knows!? Hopefully conditions will be okay for those aiming for a time.

Murph_D

Sounds like the Dollymount triffids.

Be careful out there.

belcarra

So, should we wear Berlin or Chicago uniforms tomorrow P?

tang1

belcarra wrote: »

So, should we wear Berlin or Chicago uniforms tomorrow P?

Mayo jersey? Oh wait, you'd only get slaughtered by the Dubs if you wore one of them!! Best of luck tomorrow J & P.

belcarra

tang1 wrote: »

Mayo jersey? Oh wait, you'd only get slaughtered by the Dubs if you wore one of them!! Best of luck tomorrow J & P.

Look who's the big man now after a lucky day out in Croker against the Meath minnows!!
I'd have no problem reminding any Dub of that Ciaran McDonald point back in '06 and what it meant!

PS, thanks!

tang1

belcarra wrote: »

Look who's the big man now after a lucky day out in Croker against the Meath minnows!!
I'd have no problem reminding any Dub of that Ciaran McDonald point back in '06 and what it meant!

PS, thanks!

Dont be worrying, i wont be getting any ideas after last week. The Leinster final will be embarrassing i'd say.

yaboya1

My wardrobe prep for this hasn't been planned very well. I'll wear whatever is clean in the morning

annapr

belcarra wrote: »

Look who's the big man now after a lucky day out in Croker against the Meath minnows!!
I'd have no problem reminding any Dub of that Ciaran McDonald point back in '06 and what it meant!

PS, thanks!

No self-respecting Dub needs to be reminded of that point... ouch! I know one or two that still haven't recovered from it

P.S enjoy the run tomorrow!

yaboya1

Just to wrap up the rest of last week:

Thursday 2nd July - 75 minutes Easy
9m @ 8:22p/m average (126bpm)

A bonus run after a 12 hour shift in work at 10:30pm. Perfect conditions.


Friday 3rd July - Rest

Had fully intended on getting out for a few miles with some strides thrown in ahead of pacing Saturday's race. Just like Tuesday it just didn't happen, making me even happier that I got the run in the night before.


Saturday 4th July - Clontarf HM 1:45 pacing (1:44:30)

2k w/u (5:36, 5:07)
2k w/d (5:38, 5:42)

This went pretty much according to plan with just a few slight hitches :eek:. I ate my breakfast far closer to the race than I ever would if I was racing myself, which left me needing to use the portaloo moments before the race. I was actually still in there when the race started, but didn't panic as I knew I was in wave 2. I didn't realise there was only about 30 seconds between waves. I ran from the loo, grabbed my balloon (which fellow pacer belcarra had kindly held for me) and continued on the move over the start line. I spent the first 200 metres trying to tie the string of the balloon to my wrist, before it got tangled up with belcarra's and we were literally joined at the wrist from then until late in the race. Anyway onto the pacing strategy.......

We chatted in the first half mile about how we'd go about this job. The course was marked in kilometres, so both of us had adjusted our Garmins to suit that. 4:58min/km would be the perfect steady pace from start to finish, but to allow for the Garmin measuring long and hoping to bank a few seconds on the way out we decided to try and hold 4:55min/km. We held pretty steady until we came off the causeway first time. We then decided to speed up slightly so we'd have some time to give back against the wind after the turnaround. This worked well and we were able to drop to 5:00min/km before hitting the causeway in reverse back towards the beach. Back on pace then, we explained to any followers we had left that we'd be slowing slightly along the beach (we had about 40 seconds in hand), before picking back up to target pace for the remaining 3.5km when we left the sand for the final time. We took on extra water and distributed amongst the group where possible and all in all stuck rigidly to our strategy the whole way. belcarra gave me full control of both balloons before hitting the beach again as they were becoming a real nuisance at this stage. I found it tough to hold 5:07min/km pace along the beach, so can only imagine that it was unsustainable for somebody who normally holds that pace at HM race effort. I could sense the group getting smaller & smaller the further we moved up the sand. When we eventually made our way back towards the wooden bridge, we encouraged anyone still with us that the hard work was now done. belcarra dropped back a bit to try and round up a few stragglers. From here on in most people around me either stuck with me or put a little spurt on to get in ahead. Saw Murph_D out supporting as I approached the finish and got over the line in 1:44:30. I re-iterate what I said in other threads about the race conditions on Saturday - HORRIBLE! I seriously doubt anybody who raced in Clontarf on Saturday (good or bad result) cannot do better on a more favourable day for running. I was baked in sweat on the way out and found holding 5+min/km pace tough on the way back. I had brought my HRM to wear during the race, but with all the confusion I actually forgot to turn it on which is a shame as the results would have been interesting. Normally I'd expect my HR to be hovering around 130bpm for this sort of pace, but I'd bet money it was closer to 150 today going by how I felt.


Splits:

Km 1 - 4:56
Km 2 - 4:56
Km 3 - 4:56
Km 4 - 4:57
Km 5 - 4:53
Km 6 - 4:51
Km 7 - 4:57
Km 8 - 4:47
Km 9 - 4:49
Km 10 - 4:46
Km 11 - 4:54
Km 12 - 5:02
Km 13 - 5:00
Km 14 - 4:48
Km 15 - 4:54
Km 16 - 5:08
Km 17 - 5:04
Km 18 - 5:01
Km 19 - 4:52
Km 20 - 4:53
Km 21 - 4:58
0.24 - 1:09


Caught up with Killerz, meno & overpronator after the race and enjoyed some water, a banana and some alcohol free Erdinger. dublin runner had already disappeared, although I had met him before the start. Headed home soon after and picked up the pace for a 2k cool down jog to get the daily total to about 15.5 miles.


Sunday 5th July - 65 minutes Easy
8.14m @ 8:02p/m average (130bpm)

Another bonus run I was delighted to get in. A long day meant I wasn't home until almost 11pm, so I hit the road immediately before I could change my mind. I felt extremely fresh despite the hectic couple of days beforehand and the HR was back where it should be at this sort of pace. I may deliberately put a Steady session off until this late in the night next week to see what sort of results I get when the sun's not affecting the HR.

More than 50 miles in total for the week, which I'm happy with considering the two unscheduled rest days.

yaboya1

New week, fresh start

I'm going back to logging the way I was before I went to Hamburg. I'll post any training asap after it's completed and put the splits in the post. I find the log more beneficial to me that way if I want to look back on anything rather than searching through Garmin profiles. It's also clearer for anyone else reading who couldn't be a*sed searching through links too. I also find I forget things about the run the way I'm doing it atm which I wouldn't do if I logged when fresh in my mind.

I can post Garmin profiles of any training if anyone wants to see them (just ask), but I won't be doing it otherwise. It's just too time consuming.

So, on that note:

Monday 6th July - 40 minutes Easy
5m @ 8:12 p/m average (128bpm)

Just an easy shake out for the legs this morning. Hoping to get out later too once nothing gets in the way


Splits:

Mile 1 - 8:15
Mile 2 - 8:14
Mile 3 - 8:12
Mile 4 - 8:11
Mile 5 - 8:05

menoscemo

That's happened me a few times pacing too!!
Did you actually run 17km tied together? :eek:

annapr

menoscemo wrote: »

That's happened me a few times pacing too!!
Did you actually run 17km tied together? :eek:

How sweet

yaboya1

menoscemo wrote: »

That's happened me a few times pacing too!!
Did you actually run 17km tied together? :eek:

Yep. Right until we came onto the beach second time. Along with worrying about the pace, we had to let each other know what side of lampposts etc. we were going well in advance. We also had to arch our hands over slower runners heads every time we overtook them.

annapr

yaboya1 wrote: »

Yep. Right until we came onto the beach second time. Along with worrying about the pace, we had to let each other know what side of lampposts etc. we were going. We also had to arch our hands over slower runners heads every time we overtook them.

This is getting better... :pac:

belcarra

Don't forget to tell 'em about that toilet break Peter....

Killerz

They were holding hands too... belcarra didn't think it was strictly necessary, but yaboya insisted

belcarra

Killerz wrote: »

They were holding hands too... belcarra didn't think it was strictly necessary, but yaboya insisted

That was more to prevent his hands straying elsewhere J!;)

menoscemo

yaboya1 wrote: »

Yep. Right until we came onto the beach second time. Along with worrying about the pace, we had to let each other know what side of lampposts etc. we were going well in advance. We also had to arch our hands over slower runners heads every time we overtook them.

Ah jesus!! When I said it has happened to me too It normally involves cutting one of the offending pieces of string immediately!!

I'm off to racepix to get some photographic evidence :pac:

Killerz

belcarra wrote: »

That was more to prevent his hands straying elsewhere J!;)

Desperate times, desperate measures. There was really no need to keep holding hands at the erdinger tent though....

Dubgal72

So now we know what really got you hot and bothered

menoscemo

Dubgal72 wrote: »

So now we know what really got you hot and bothered

Maybe that's why his heart rate was so high for the pace?

yaboya1

Monday 6th July (P.M.) - 60 minutes Recovery
6m @ 10:01 p/m average (116bpm)

What has now become a regular occurrence on a Monday evening for me. Six very slow miles around the PP to aid the legs recovery. They felt like two planks of wood after two consecutive half marathons (kilo on Sunday :P) at the weekend.


Splits:

Mile 1 - 8:53
Mile 2 - 10:29
Mile 3 - 10:14
Mile 4 - 10:29
Mile 5 - 10:25
Mile 6 - 9:39

yaboya1

Tuesday 7th July - Rest

Nothing like what I had originally planned. Since I was off work today, I was hoping to get a double day in. Some nice easy miles in the morning and a Steady session this evening. However having not felt fantastic last night, I woke up this morning feeling absolutely awful. High temperature, aches & pains all over, a persistent headache and feeling weak as a kitten made my mind up to knock any thoughts of a run on the head. Went back to bed after breakfast and generally put the feet up for the day. Feeling slightly better now and hopeful of completing my Steady session after work tomorrow. Here's hoping for a good night's sleep........

yaboya1

Wednesday 8th July - 60 minutes Steady
8.08m @ 7:25 p/m average (155bpm)

If it's not roasting hot, it's warm & humid and if it's not warm & humid its blowing a gale. All this is a bit of a nightmare when trying to run by HR. I felt the strong breeze out on my way home from work and knew the results of this would be all over the place. Behind me, across me, against me. I was tight for time, so only did 60 minutes and no cool down. Not sure there was any point in doing anything.


Splits:

W/u mile: 8:39 (126bpm)

Mile 1 - 7:05
Mile 2 - 7:07
Mile 3 - 7:13
Mile 4 - 7:28
Mile 5 - 7:52
Mile 6 - 7:43
Mile 7 - 7:39
Mile 8 - 7:15
0.08 - 0:40

yaboya1

Saturday 11th July - Marathon Des Escargots HM 1:50 pacing (1:49:16)
13.11m @ 8:20 p/m average (143bpm)

An opportunity to pace this event came up during the week, so I decided to take it and use as my long run. Very happy with the consistent splits (which I'll post when my Garmin comes back to life) and managed to get a few in below their target time. Nice event with a great atmosphere. Well done to all involved.

jake1970

Well done on the pacing Yaboya.

yaboya1

jake1970 wrote: »

Well done on the pacing Yaboya.

Cheers Jake. Nice to meet you and well done on the 10k time. Good luck with the DCM training. I'd volunteer to pace you in that if it wasn't so close to New York.

belcarra

Were there any balloon issues this week??

yaboya1

belcarra wrote: »

Were there any balloon issues this week??

Yes actually

I'll tell you about it when I post my report.

belcarra

yaboya1 wrote: »

Yes actually

I'll tell you about it when I post my report.

Aaah, so it's officially not my fault!!