A Slow Journey to Faster Times

yaboya1

Tuesday 4th March - Stretching/Foam Rolling/Core-Work

A similar routine to the workouts I was performing in the lead up to the marathon this morning. I've worked out a schedule for the rest of the week if everything goes to plan.

Wednesday - HADD 2400m test
Thursday - Rest
Friday - 5/6m Recovery
Saturday - 5k Marlay parkrun
Sunday - 5/6m Recovery

I'm heading out to a party on Friday night, but will do the Marlay parkrun once I'm not feeling too rough the next day. Hopefully I can hit my 2014 goal of sub 19 (and my current expectation of sub 18) there. It will give me a good target to beat for St Annes on the 5th April, or any other 5k race I contest in the near future. Then it's on to the Larne Half-Marathon in 2.5 weeks where I hope to get in around 1:25.

statss

be interested to see your HADD test results, you going to give it a proper lash for a few months yeah?

yaboya1

statss wrote: »

be interested to see your HADD test results, you going to give it a proper lash for a few months yeah?

Yeah, I was thinking I can give it until early June at the least. If I'm seeing improvement I can stick with it, but if not I still have plenty of time to start an alternative plan for Berlin.

yaboya1

Wednesday 5th March - HADD 2400m Test

This was as much a test of my patience as it was my aerobic fitness, as going slow enough to keep the heart rate down at the beginning is pretty difficult. However, after a warm up and two failed attempts I eventually got the hang of it. Results are below:

2400m @ 140 bpm (Actual 132 bpm) - 8:51 min/mile average
2400m @ 150 bpm (Actual 147 bpm) - 7:38 min/mile average
2400m @ 160 bpm (Actual 159 bpm) - 7:00 min/mile average
2400m @ 170 bpm (Actual 169 bpm) - 6:17 min/mile average
2400m @ 180 bpm (Actual 173 bpm) - 6:00 min/mile average

I'll try and review this as best I can.


140bpm

I went straight out for this as soon as I got out of bed so my heart rate was jumping ll over the place between 110bpm & 180bpm, despite the fact that I was barely above walking pace. After a mile warm up, I had got it down to a steady 120bpm and decided to crack on with the first section (140bpm). The text had recommended gradually building up to each heart rate in the first 500-600m, rather than going off faster and having to slow down to keep your heart at the required rate. I started off around 125bpm, but then I sneezed and it shot back up to 180bpm again even though I was still barely walking. I couldn't get it back to 140bpm in the next few hundred metres, so I aborted this attempt and tried again. At this stage my body was obviously warmed up a little bit, but I was trying so hard to keep the rate down that I was now averaging around 120bpm after the first 800m, so I aborted again and gave it a third go. This time I did a bit better but I was still below the recommended 140bpm at 132bpm. I decided to go with that and move onto the next section as it's probably better to be below than above doing this test.

150bpm

This was the easiest of the lot. I got the heart up to this rate pretty quickly and managed to maintain it for the whole 2400m.

160bpm

This was a little bit more difficult, but not by much. Again, I got to the right level in the first hundred metres or so and held it very close to that for the entire duration of the 2400m.

170bpm

The text does recommend doing this test at the track on a windless day. I did it on the flat coastline along the Clontarf Road, but trying to find a windless day when you live in Dublin can be difficult. The 160, 170 & 180 sections were all back into the wind. It was nothing major compared to what we get sometimes, but as the effort levels went up, it became more difficult. I managed to hold this effort again almost perfectly but was starting to get tired towards the end.

180bpm

I never managed to get up to 180bpm. I just couldn't do it. Felt like I was killing myself and I only hit a high of 177bpm. I averaged 173bpm for this section and had to sit down when I completed it. According to the text 174-177bpm will be my ideal Marathon pace. Judging by this effort, there's no chance I'll complete a race of any distance at that average heart rate, but maybe that's to do with the work I put in against the wind and at the previous heart rates. I don't know. I'll just have to trust the training and see have I improved by following it in 6 weeks time.

Link to the activity is here: http://connect.garmin.com/activity/455510191

FBOT01

yaboya1 wrote: »

Wednesday 5th March - HADD 2400m Test

This was as much a test of my patience as it was my aerobic fitness, as going slow enough to keep the heart rate down at the beginning is pretty difficult. However, after a warm up and two failed attempts I eventually got the hang of it. Results are below:

2400m @ 140 bpm (Actual 132 bpm) - 8:51 min/mile average
2400m @ 150 bpm (Actual 147 bpm) - 7:38 min/mile average
2400m @ 160 bpm (Actual 159 bpm) - 7:00 min/mile average
2400m @ 170 bpm (Actual 169 bpm) - 6:17 min/mile average
2400m @ 180 bpm (Actual 173 bpm) - 6:00 min/mile average

Will be following this trial and your progress with interest over the next few weeks as you should have given it a good go before I am looking at my next marathon cycle. Cheers;)

statss

might be worth it to spend some time going through this thread dedicated to HADD training over on runners world

http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/forum/training/hadd-training-method/260438.html

It's odd that you couldn't reach 180 - unless your max reading is wrong - but we don't think so, so I'm none the wiser unfortunately.

ger664

I have done this test as well several times. I have always found it very hard to maintain or get near the top HR for me its 178. Another point is the distance, from my understanding this was aimed originally at 2:30 marathon runner and thus making that pace for 2400M very difficult for a 3:30 runner (which I was at the time) . I think that the distance can be reduced so long as the each rep length is 8-10 minutes in duration, but have a read of statss link or if you can dig out the thead/pdf from lets run forum.

menoscemo

yaboya1 wrote: »

140bpm

I went straight out for this as soon as I got out of bed so my heart rate was jumping ll over the place between 110bpm & 180bpm, despite the fact that I was barely above walking pace. After a mile warm up, I had got it down to a steady 120bpm and decided to crack on with the first section (140bpm). The text had recommended gradually building up to each heart rate in the first 500-600m, rather than going off faster and having to slow down to keep your heart at the required rate. I started off around 125bpm, but then I sneezed and it shot back up to 180bpm again even though I was still barely walking. I couldn't get it back to 140bpm in the next few hundred metres, so I aborted this attempt and tried again. At this stage my body was obviously warmed up a little bit, but I was trying so hard to keep the rate down that I was now averaging around 120bpm after the first 800m, so I aborted again and gave it a third go.

This is what I mean by you getting dodgy readings from your HRM. I can tell you for a fact that your HR did not jump to 180 bpm while you were barely walking. It is a misreading in the HRM or 'spike'.
It can be caused by a few things:
Static: it seems that friction against your t-shirt can cause the readings to jump up and down.
Dryness: If the comtact points between the HRM and your chest are dry you will generally get poor readings. You will find most people disregard the first few miles as the readings are unreliable until you get a bit of a sweat going (sweat allows for conduction of electricity as opposed to the static of dry skin). You can counteract this by wetting the contact points in salty water before putting on your HRM. I think you can also by a gel to do the same job.

Ososlo

menoscemo wrote: »

You can counteract this by wetting the contact points in salty water before putting on your HRM. I think you can also by a gel to do the same job.

good old spit works even better and it's free;)

statss

I use to have terrible HR reading issues until I went and bought the old school garmin strap pictured here on top, it works flawlessly for me. found the new soft one useless.

menoscemo

statss wrote: »

I use to have terrible HR reading issues until I went and bought the old school garmin strap pictured here on top, it works flawlessly for me. found the new soft one useless.

That's mad I went through two of the old school straps and neither worked for me (they are available for free to anyone who wants them). I got the new premium strap with my new FR 220 and it seems to work fine!!

statss

menoscemo wrote: »

That's mad I went through two of the old school straps and neither worked for me (they are available for free to anyone who wants them). I got the new premium strap with my new FR 220 and it seems to work fine!!

you must have a hairy chest or something then :pac::pac:

yaboya1

I think I have the latest one too. Definitely not the top one anyway. Maybe it's the hairy chest??

Ososlo

I don't have a hairy chest:D and both types worked great for me. No issues with either. I think you all just need to spit on them well (like lots of it) before you go out. After a couple of mins the readings settle down fine for me.

statss

ah here ososlo your asking for trouble....

Ososlo

statss wrote: »

ah here ososlo your asking for trouble....

this is a nice clean log. No smut here.

yet

I think I'm safe:D

ger664

Garmin do GPS Polar do HR

yaboya1

Friday 7th March - 5m Recovery
5m @ 10:04p/m average

Lovely morning for it today. Set out really slowly as I was wearing the HRM and I'm trying my best to get the hang of it for the weeks ahead. It gave me some weird readings again in the first couple of miles, before settling down after that. I think I'll make sure to do two warm up miles before any HR session in the future to ensure the readings are accurate. Going to start this sort of training properly on Monday. In the meantime, I hope to run in the Marlay parkrun tomorrow where I'll be happy with a sub 19 (current PB: 19:22).


Splits:

Mile 1 - 10:43
Mile 2 - 10:19
Mile 3 - 9:48
Mile 4 - 9:34
Mile 5 - 9:57

yaboya1

Saturday 8th March - 5k Marlay parkrun
3.08m @ 5:58p/m average (18:19)

Felt ok this morning despite a late-ish night. Arrived at Marlay for around nine o'clock, where there was a pretty strong breeze blowing on an otherwise perfect morning for running. A massive crowd (652 finishers according to the results) gathered at the start as the clock ticked closer to race time. After a 'Happy First Birthday Marlay' message and the usual necessary announcements from the race director, we were under way around 9:32am. I had positioned myself close to the front of the pack, as I was worried that I'd struggle to overtake on the narrow paths we'd be running on if I was any further back. This worked out well and I was in the top 20-30 by the time we had completed the first lap of the concert field. I was happy at this stage as we headed down into the woods and I gradually started to make up a few places just by holding my pace which was just below 6:00min/mile. The second mile was by far the toughest, with the uphill section of the course coupled with a simultaneous strong headwind. I picked off a few more runners here to move into the top 20, despite my own pace dropping to around 6:20min/mile. When we got to the top of the hill and turned left, the wind seemed to disappear and I felt strong enough to push on for the final mile. Think I passed the leading woman here (ensuring that I didn't get 'chicked' ) and was starting to think I must now be close to a top ten spot. As we turned into the concert field for the final time, Mick McCartan (whom I recognised from the Race Series) was calling out the positions. I heard '8th, 9th, 10th' for myself and the two guys immediately ahead. Around 800m to hold on. Sub 19 and a top ten had been the plan/goal this morning, but I got a bit greedy and decided to have a go at the two lads in front. Managed to get by one of them and was using any energy I had left to catch the other one. Never managed to make any inroads on him though, and the gap remained the same all the way to the line. The final 400m was a bit boring as I was too far behind to get 8th and had taken enough distance out of the guy behind me that I couldn't be caught for 9th. Crossed the line in 18:19 which I'm delighted with. I got my top 10 finish and it's a PB of more than a minute on what wasn't the easiest of mornings. I'm confident I can go sub 18 by the end of 2014. But for now it's back to the endurance stuff with the Larne Half-Marathon next up in two weeks. Met up with statss & DukeOfDromada after the race and we had a good chat about training, heart rates and running in general. Always good to meet some fellow boardsies and I look forward to meeting some more at future races. Apparently there was free cake to celebrate Marlay's 'birthday' which I knew nothing about . An enjoyable morning nonetheless.


Splits (forgot to change Garmin to km):

Mile 1 - 5:57
Mile 2 - 6:19
Mile 3 - 5:40
0.08 - 0:23

AuldManKing

That is superb running! Well done and super PB.

ecoli

Tough conditions on a challenging enough course. Sub 18 on the cards before too long. Well done today man

FBOT01

Good running. Nice PB.

Beef

That's some running not long after a big PB marathon. You must be delighted with the way things are going...?

yaboya1

Beef wrote: »

That's some running not long after a big PB marathon. You must be delighted with the way things are going...?

Yes, I'm loving it at the moment. Got my two soft targets coming up next too. Half marathon & 10 miler. Might have to set some new targets for the second half of 2014 :-)

Tom Joad

Superb PB - well done.

Ferris B

Great run Yaboya considering you probably still have a bit of Seville in your legs.

Bit disappointed in the short race report though!:D

yaboya1

Ferris B wrote: »

Great run Yaboya considering you probably still have a bit of Seville in your legs.

Thanks. That's probably true but it doesn't feel like it. I seem to be relatively fresh for some reason?

Ferris B wrote: »

Bit disappointed in the short race report though!:D

Sorry about that

jake1970

Congratulations on your latest PB.

Duanington

Great running, well done

RedRunner

Well done today! Another great run.

yaboya1

Sunday 9th March - 5m Recovery
5.4m @ 9:29p/m average

I wish I had done this before work rather than afterwards, as this morning's beautiful weather had taken quite a turn for the worse by the time I got home. Really didn't fancy heading out in it, but convinced myself I wouldn't regret it and hit the road around 7:30pm. I spent almost an hour getting completely saturated by the constant hazy rain, but I thoroughly enjoyed it and feel much better now than I did earlier on with any stiffness/soreness from yesterday totally gone. Not sure how the next week will go as my training is sure to be affected by the Cheltenham Festival, so I'll fit runs in where I can before getting back to normal next Saturday.


Splits:

Mile 1 - 9:11
Mile 2 - 9:36
Mile 3 - 9:23
Mile 4 - 9:34
Mile 5 - 9:40
0.4 - 3:51

FBOT01

yaboya1 wrote: »

Not sure how the next week will go as my training is sure to be affected by the Cheltenham Festival, so I'll fit runs in where I can......

Feel free to share your investment advice for the week;)

yaboya1

FBOT01 wrote: »

Feel free to share your investment advice for the week;)

I've no problem doing that once I'm not liable for any losses incurred

Be warned though, my race previews are almost as long as my race reports!!

FBOT01

yaboya1 wrote: »

I've no problem doing that once I'm not liable for any losses incurred

Be warned though, my race previews are almost as long as my race reports!!

You have wet my appetite now. I will top up the betfair account and await your post.

Gavlor

yaboya1 wrote: »

I've no problem doing that once I'm not liable for any losses incurred

Be warned though, my race previews are almost as long as my race reports!!

A certain red and white branded booking office are offering money back special on champion hurdle if the fly finishes 1st or 2nd. The way betting is going it might be worth a free bet on jezki @ 10's....I see the new one has gone into fav?

yaboya1

Gavlor wrote: »

A certain red and white branded booking office are offering money back special on champion hurdle if the fly finishes 1st or 2nd. The way betting is going it might be worth a free bet on jezki @ 10's....I see the new one has gone into fav?

Yeah, it's definitely worth shopping around during the week. PP are giving you money back in the Supreme (opening race) if your horse finishes 2nd, 3rd or 4th. They'll be all trying to get our business, so keep an eye out for the special offers. As I've just mentioned to FBOT, my thoughts are on my Facebook page 'Enhanceyourchances - Betting advice for shrewd punters' for anyone who's interested in reading them?

yaboya1

Tuesday 11th March - 12m Easy
12.6m @ 10:07p/m average

I got up early to watch The Morning Line and decided to kill some time between that and the start of the racing by running for two hours. Tried my best to keep the heart rate at around 135bpm (almost succeeded at 136). It was difficult at times because I had to go so slowly, but it was enjoyable nonetheless on such a lovely morning. I'm hoping to run tomorrow and Thursday too as Friday will be a complete write off in the pub


Splits:

Mile 1 - 9:31
Mile 2 - 10:29
Mile 3 - 10:41
Mile 4 - 10:17
Mile 5 - 9:44
Mile 6 - 9:56
Mile 7 - 10:10
Mile 8 - 9:50
Mile 9 - 9:49
Mile 10 - 9:53
Mile 11 - 9:14
Mile 12 - 9:36
0.6 - 6:22

Gavlor

Gavlor wrote: »

A certain red and white branded booking office are offering money back special on champion hurdle if the fly finishes 1st or 2nd. The way betting is going it might be worth a free bet on jezki @ 10's....I see the new one has gone into fav?

BOOM!!

yaboya1

Wednesday 12th March - 75 minutes Steady
9.13m @ 8:13p/m average

I was expecting the pace to be around the 7:40min/mile mark, as that's about what it was at this heart rate in the HADD test last week. Surprisingly it was about 20 seconds slower than that. Maybe that was to do with the sun, as there's definitely some heat in it today. I won't complain though, as it was a beautiful morning to be out there. I ignored the first two miles as the HR was jumping all over the place as usual, but I kept it very close to the intended target of 150bpm (avg 152bpm) after that. I could get used to training in weather like that.


Splits:

Mile 1 - 8:55
Mile 2 - 8:29
Mile 3 - 7:51
Mile 4 - 8:01
Mile 5 - 7:55
Mile 6 - 8:07
Mile 7 - 8:06
Mile 8 - 8:10
Mile 9 - 8:19
0.13 - 1:08

outforarun

Just speed read your log. There are so many good logs out there at moment it's hard to keep up with most, let alone discover new ones. Congratulations on the spectacular progress you're experiencing. Those original 10M and HM targets are so super soft now. Absolutely loved your Seville report, especially the deliberate decision to soak up all the atmosphere and snapshot the moment at the finishing line. Great stuff.

yaboya1

outforarun wrote: »

Just speed read your log. There are so many good logs out there at moment it's hard to keep up with most, let alone discover new ones. Congratulations on the spectacular progress you're experiencing. Those original 10M and HM targets are so super soft now. Absolutely loved your Seville report, especially the deliberate decision to soak up all the atmosphere and snapshot the moment at the finishing line. Great stuff.

Thanks. Just had a skim through your log there too.
Are you still targeting 3:19 in Cork?
Everything looks to be going to plan.

outforarun

yaboya1 wrote: »

Thanks. Just had a skim through your log there too.
Are you still targeting 3:19 in Cork?
Everything looks to be going to plan.

Yeah still targeting 3:19. And yeah so far I'm hitting all the right notes at least in terms of the training plan. I need to work on confidence though and try put previous marathons out of my head, and try remove the expectation that I'll blow-up (5 marathons, 5 blow-ups of varying severity). I'm trusting that this year's revised paces together with a 1700+ mile base from 2013 will make the difference.

yaboya1

Thursday 13th March - 60 minutes Easy
6.22m @ 9:39p/m average (135bpm avg)

Managed to get another hour of running in this morning. The pace was noticeably quicker than Tuesday, despite a relatively similar heart rate. I assume this is down to the colder temperature today.


Splits:

Mile 1 - 9:46
Mile 2 - 9:22
Mile 3 - 9:52
Mile 4 - 9:40
Mile 5 - 9:19
Mile 6 - 10:03
0.22 - 2:02

yaboya1

My Cheltenham Gold Cup day shenanigans ruined any training aspirations I had for this weekend. I gave myself a rest day on Friday, but was too tired from the aftermath to go out after work yesterday or before work this morning. I'm going to do some stretching, foam rolling and core work when I get home tonight and I've put together a schedule for the following week which I hope will help me hit my HM target of 1:24:xx in Larne next Saturday.

Would be interested to know what people think:

Monday: AM: 90mins Easy PM: 60mins Easy (with 6 x 100m Strides)
Tuesday: 8m (with 5 x 600m @ VO2 Max)
Wednesday: 45mins easy
Thursday: Rest
Friday: 4m Recovery
Saturday: Larne Half-Marathon

AuldManKing

What you have outlined seems fine.

Here's an alternative as well.
http://running.competitor.com/2013/09/training/workout-of-the-week-race-week-workouts_20718

ecoli

Overall layout of the week looks fine though personally I would tend to veer away from Vo2 max stuff. All you want to be doing this week is allowing your body to freshen up while keeping in touch with race pace. AMK's alternative looks decent or even 5x800m @ 10k - HMP off 90s would be fit also.

yaboya1

ecoli wrote: »

Overall layout of the week looks fine though personally I would tend to veer away from Vo2 max stuff. All you want to be doing this week is allowing your body to freshen up while keeping in touch with race pace. AMK's alternative looks decent or even 5x800m @ 10k - HMP off 90s would be fit also.

I was just thinking about knocking the VO2 Max stuff on the head myself while I was out on my run this evening, then I came in to read this.
Great minds eh.....? :P
The main reason I had that in there was because I've been going mad with paranoia that I've lost some fitness after a rough weekend and I thought a solid set of 600's would convince me otherwise. Stupid I know, especially coming off my 5k run last week but I've got my confidence back after doing some strides tonight. As I was finishing up I was thinking a VO2 Max workout in the morning might burn me out, so I'll probably go with AMK's suggestion, as a similar plan seemed to work well for skeleton_boy last week.

Cheers for the advice though (and well done on the the top pacing job in Tralee)

yaboya1

Monday 17th March - (A.M.) 90 minutes Easy
11m @ 8:48p/m average (137bpm)

First run since Thursday morning. Had a long day on the beer last Friday which I haven't had a chance to fully get over, as I've been in work every day since. Feeling very tired, so getting up at the crack of dawn for this wasn't easy. Much better when I got out there though. Glad I made the effort. Was supposed to be 90 minutes of easy running, but I added an extra six minutes to get in the eleventh mile.


Splits:

Mile 1 - 8:58
Mile 2 - 8:35
Mile 3 - 8:50
Mile 4 - 8:45
Mile 5 - 8:32
Mile 6 - 8:37
Mile 7 - 8:44
Mile 8 - 9:01
Mile 9 - 8:53
Mile 10 - 9:04
Mile 11 - 8:46


Monday 17th March - (P.M.) 60 minutes Easy (with 6 x 100m strides)
7.03m @ 8:34p/m average (135bpm)
(Strides: 17:94, 16:56, 18:01, 18:21, 18:28, 17:84)

Didn't fancy this after the early start and a long day in work today, but went out as soon as I got in the door before I had the chance to change my mind. Really felt great during the run though and managed an improvement on the pace per mile from this morning, despite a slightly slower heart rate. Considering I didn't feel I was putting in maximum effort with the strides, I was really pleased when I saw the splits for those. Really looking forward to the race on Saturday now.


Mile 1 - 9:00
Mile 2 - 8:43
Mile 3 - 8:37
Mile 4 - 8:17
Mile 5 - 8:17
Mile 6 - 8:33
Mile 7 - 8:29

AuldManKing

I believe you have some questions to answer.............best of luck this week, good fun!

yaboya1

Tuesday 18th March

I decided to follow the suggestion for today's workout from the link that AMK posted. This was:

1-mile warmup, 2-3 miles @ goal half marathon race pace, 1 mile easy, 5 x 1:00 “on”/1:00 “off” @ 10K race pace, 1-mile cooldown

I'm hoping to go sub 1:25 on Saturday, so that meant I needed to be below 6:30min/mile for the HMP miles, while my recent 10k time of 39:07 gave me a target of 6:16min/mile for the one minute segments.

Everything went pretty much according to plan leaving me much happier than I was yesterday morning, when I had convinced myself that my fitness levels had dropped due to an over-indulgent Gold Cup day. The last mile of the HMP miles was very tough into the wind so I was delighted to hold the pace there, but I think I over compensated on the first one minute segment by pushing too hard when I got a bit of shelter. I eased off immediately for the next four when I realised though.

1m wu - 8:01
HMP 1 - 6:25
HMP 2 - 6:22
HMP 3 - 6:25
1m cd- 9:10


5 x 1min @ 10k pace

1 - 5:48
2 - 6:16
3 - 6:07
4 - 6:16
5 - 6:18