O'Neill/Keane combo for the Ireland job.Yes,No,or maybe?

Paully D

10green bottles wrote: »

Someone on the MNS panel tonight said Roy Keane dosn't coach and never has! He may get his finger out now so.

He did a bit now and again at Sunderland but generally went the O'Neill route and let his coaches get on with it. I posted this a few pages back but a Guardian article (link below) from the time he left Sunderland says '' Keane failed to attend any of Sunderland's training sessions this week - a not uncommon occurrence'' - http://www.theguardian.com/football/2008/dec/05/premierleague-sunderland

It looks like the majority of the coaching will be left to Steve Walford, who himself seems like training is the last thing he wants to do based on the below transcript from Alan Stubbs' book :rolleyes:

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/so-how-exactly-is-this-partnership-between-o-neill-and-keane-going-to-work-out-1.1582603?page=2

“Wally was so laid back he was lucky he didn’t fall over more often,” Stubbs writes. “The contrast with the intensity that Martin brought couldn’t have been greater. Wally would take the training during the week, and he’d bring with him this relaxed, carefree style. He’d keep things simple and was great at coaching. I don’t know how many times we trained on a Tuesday (Wednesday would be our day off) and Wally would say, ‘Right, today we are going to f*****g train for an hour and a half and then I am going to f**k off. I’m going down to London to see my friends and get pissed.’

“We’d all be laughing away at this, and if anyone asked if they could train longer he’d shake his head. ‘One hour thirty minutes and that is f*****g it. I’m f*****g going in now, and you can f**k off.’

We're spending the guts of €2m quid a year on a coaching set up that can scarcely conduct a training session. A complete and utter joke.

celtictiger32

billyhead wrote: »

It doesnt matter in fairness who takes over as we just don't have the players. I wish the new management team all the best but its not the manager who togs out

that argument is a bit redundant at this stage, ok most of our lads are not what you might call world class but we had the likes of sweden in our group who came through and were regarded as the boolies favourite to finish 2nd. is their squad full of superstars? i would say definitely not (ok ibrahimovic aside). there a decent enough squad there for them to work with the likes of coleman, brady, mccarthy, long to name a few have plenty to offer and i think we will see a lot more out of them with o neill and keane in the fold.

sonic85

this will be a disaster I think. theres just too much that can go wrong

The_Kew_Tour

So Keane does not Coach or neither does O Neill.

Bloody hell!

Dempsey

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

So Keane does not Coach or neither does O Neill.

Bloody hell!

Too many chiefs and not enough Indians!

Celly Smunt

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

Sure some people gave the man a hard time because he wouldn't drop Keane.

In fairness I dont think that was the only reason why people got upset.

The_Kew_Tour

Dempsey wrote: »

Too many chiefs and not enough Indians!

:pac::pac: very good

rosskind

Not as disastrous as it would be at club level. International managers can't have as much of an influence on playing style in the couple of training sessions they have together every few months. I mean, I doubt Guardiola could get Whelan, Andrews and Green playing like his Barca side in such a limited time. I'd even say Martinez's influence at Everton, for example, will have more on an effect on the team.

As long as they instill confidence in the players and don't isolate players like Trap did, I'll be happy enough. A bit of organisation about the team is needed so it's not easy for teams to hammer us as some have recently and some creativity so we don't struggle to break down teams aswell, but it's difficult to know who'll bring that. Hopefully we'll find out soon enough whether they're bringing anyone else into the fold.

Gringo180

This appointment is a ****ing joke no matter what way you look at it. Delaney is a clown.

Mr. Incognito

So two men with no international or managerial experience brought back two men with mediocre and no international managerial experience.

Great appointment by mon. Things go well he gets all the credit. Things go poorly Keanu will blow up and say his usual stupidity and get all the blame.

Win win for o Neil.

Crap appointment.

kryogen

Hamadeusentman wrote: »

I am disgusted at the appointment of Keane as assistant (99 per cent certain now). O'Neill is a solid appointment in my opinion, he has the track record and is a decent manager. He worked wonders with an unfashionable but hard-working Leicester in the 90s, and was shafted by Sunderland and Villa. His Villa side at their best were lovely to watch I thought. He was tipped for the England job before Hodgson got it and linked with ROI job as well I recall. He understands football well and coaching and management.
Keane on the other hand. Whatever one thinks about the man and his character (very little, personally), he has PROVEN himself already that he is a quitter. When the heat got too much at Sunderland and Ipswich he quit. Rubbish manager with zero staying power and a disaster as O'Neill's appointment. It's a pure FAI stunt to get arses on seats. I am ragin'.

You realise how stupid this post is right?

COYVB

Hamadeusentman wrote: »

O'Neill is a solid appointment in my opinion, he has the track record and is a decent manager. He worked wonders with an unfashionable but hard-working Leicester in the 90s, and was shafted by Sunderland and Villa. His Villa side at their best were lovely to watch I thought. He was tipped for the England job before Hodgson got it and linked with ROI job as well I recall. He understands football well and coaching and management.

Wow. That's just... wow.

briany

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

So two men with no international or managerial experience brought back two men with mediocre and no international managerial experience.

Great appointment by mon. Things go well he gets all the credit. Things go poorly Keanu will blow up and say his usual stupidity and get all the blame.

Win win for o Neil.

Crap appointment.

The nice thing for Keane about being assistant manager is that he's not quite as in the media firing line as the Mo'N so I'd be skeptical of seeing too many outbursts. Yes, the media will come after him and want to get him in on all the press conferences etc. but all Keane has to do is sit quietly and give short answers when pressed.

Seriously, though, if any part of the thinking behind Mo'N's request for Keane is "He'll get the blame if I f*ck up!", the whole arrangement can just be scrapped here and now. Of course, we can't read his mind, so there'll always be that cynical speculation on the part of some.

wandatowell

Who's idea is it to bring Roy in???

10green bottles

wandatowell wrote: »

Who's idea is it to bring Roy in???

€200/250,000 pa+ on offer plus expenses and add ons why would anyone refuse the job?

The_Kew_Tour

wandatowell wrote: »

Who's idea is it to bring Roy in???

MON

So who's coaching the players?

I think Stan needs to come back

Dempsey

Knowing MON, he'll want to hire at least 3 coaches besides wanting Keane. What Roy actually gonna do besides be opinionated about everything?

Lovely Bloke

Dempsey wrote: »

Knowing MON, he'll want to hire at least 3 coaches besides wanting Keane. What Roy actually gonna do besides be opinionated about everything?

Maybe MON values his opinion.

Whoare you to question that?

kryogen

I have said many a time that I think Keane could be very well suited to international management, having the players for shorter periods of time would be better for his style, unless that has changed with his time off. This is not really something I can see working though, if it is true maybe it does signal a willingness to change his approach from Roy?

MON is not my cup of tea as a manager, but if he can help Roy with the man management skills he is lacking, how to deal with under performing players etc without pinning them to the wall it could be a shrewd move on his part to learn some new skills. I find it weird that MON is the one insistent on Keane coming on board reportedly, that the FAI did not approach Roy nor Roy them, that this was all O Neills idea

Whats in it for him?

Dempsey

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Maybe MON values his opinion.

Whoare you to question that?

He might value it but that doesnt mean its any good.

Oh, how dare me have an opinion! :rolleyes:

Lamper.sffc

briany wrote: »

The nice thing for Keane about being assistant manager is that he's not quite as in the media firing line as the Mo'N so I'd be skeptical of seeing too many outbursts. Yes, the media will come after him and want to get him in on all the press conferences etc. but all Keane has to do is sit quietly and give short answers when pressed.

Seriously, though, if any part of the thinking behind Mo'N's request for Keane is "He'll get the blame if I f*ck up!", the whole arrangement can just be scrapped here and now. Of course, we can't read his mind, so there'll always be that cynical speculation on the part of some.

:eek:

Banjaxed82

Nobody could have imagined this happening a week a ago...or ever.

Reading the thread the last few days, there seems be a lot of shooting from the hip, stock, cliched views on the men.

The truth is nobody has a clue how it is going to pan out. There's nothing of precedence to compare this scenario with.

eigrod

Delaney about to do an interview with Pat Kenny on Newstalk. Expected that he's to announce the appointments.

homerjay2005

Fai statement just there now also pretty much confirming it.

Football Association of Ireland (Official)
We can confirm that the managerial appointment process with Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane is at an advanced stage. Updates can be found here on Football Association of Ireland (Official) before anywhere else!

richierichballs

done deal.

thee glitz

So nothing's signed but they expect it to be official on Sat.

eigrod

richierichballs wrote: »

done deal.

Not quite yet. Delaney expects it to be done by Saturday. He "doesn't see any impediment" to it happening.

Nerdlingr

Delaney on newstalk at the mo.

Lovely Bloke

IF Delaney is on the radio confirming there are talks, then you can pretty much say that it's going to happen, barring Keane being some kind of ultimate troll.

Lovely Bloke

Strange that the FAI are giving this exclusive to an O'Brien run station.

CSF

**** it, bring back Trap!!!!

eigrod

Will take 3 days for Denis O' Brien to set up 2 new direct debits.

Your Airbag

I can see this becoming farcical due to Keanes involvement. He was a legend of a player but not as a manager.

The thing that worries me the most is his social interaction skills, which are needed in any job to get along. Keane lacks these and tbh he is a [insert your own curse word here]

If he falls out with a couple of players the atmosphere in the camp would be very tense. I can see him blowing up at MON if he tries to pull rank.

He could get the squad totally committed and will suffer no BS but with Keane being Keane its only a matter of time before he falls out with someone.

homerjay2005

question for people talking about coaching set up in the team (and o neill will still appoint his own coaching staff anyway). considering that these players are coached 5 days a week, is coaching for 2 or 3 days during international breaks, going to change them much? the team is lacking in adequate team selections, a game plan and tactical outlay for big games and this is something that the manager can change.

Ferguson for example rarely, if never took charge of training, but focused on the other aspects of the job so am not sure its as big an issue as people are making out. big issue at club level of course, but not as much at international level as the chance to do something in 2 or 3 days is minimal. its all about bonding, getting the players used to each other and organisation IMO.

Hamadeusentman

COYVB wrote: »

Wow. That's just... wow.

Good man. Yeah that's what I said. It's a forum and I am entitled to my opinion as I have pointed out. What is your opinion on the matter then? I was at the semi final second leg in Villa Park in January, 2010 when Blackburn were beaten 6-4 by a quite impressive Villa side. They went on to reach their first final in 10 years and O'Neill guided them to three 6th place finishes I think too. Wow is right as you say.

Neil3030

Hamadeusentman wrote: »

Good man. Yeah that's what I said. It's a forum and I am entitled to my opinion as I have pointed out. What is your opinion on the matter then? I was at the semi final second leg in Villa Park in January, 2010 when Blackburn were beaten 6-4 by a quite impressive Villa side. They went on to reach their first final in 10 years and O'Neill guided them to three 6th place finishes I think too. Wow is right as you say.

Guided them to three 6th place finishes, via a £250m investment in players. Not exactly the most incredible achievement ever witnessed in football.

Hamadeusentman

Neil3030 wrote: »

Guided them to three 6th place finishes, via a £250m investment in players. Not exactly the most incredible achievement ever witnessed in football.

120 million actually. Get the facts right. And I never claimed it was an incredible achievement.

Neil3030

Hamadeusentman wrote: »

120 million actually. Get the facts right. And I never claimed it was an incredible achievement.

I did. Players don't work for free.

ionadnapokot

Have to say i do think O'Neill is an excellent appointment.
I also think he has a vgood track record. & yes he did well at Villa & not so good at Sunderland. But he is still the best man for this job.
Its the Keane thing....just an unnecessary gamble. We know hes not there for the coaching. I hope it proves to be inspirational!

v3ttel

Seems like criticising MON is the popular thing to do among Villa fans. Lots of willy waving about how rubbish he is, etc etc.

Maybe the standard of football isn't what you expected, or isn't the most attractive, fair enough. Look at the table before, during, and after his time there:

Before MON:16th
MON: 11th, 6th, 6th, 6th
After MON: 9th, 15th, 16th

Money or not, the club performed better whilst he was in charge. I think he'll get the best out of the limited group we have at international level. We don't necessarily have the players to play a possession game in any case.

He had brought Celtic to a European final in 2003 (their first since 1970). He made it very, very difficult for the elite European sides to go to Celtic Park and get any sort of result in the Champions League. That was with a very, very limited budget.

All the negativity is way over the top. He is a reasonably good manager, and the type of game he plays probably suits the group of players we have available at the moment. As with David Moyes at United, the manager must be backed to bring in whoever he wants as his staff. If he feels Roy Keane can add something there, fair enough.

Lets hope that Romania don't get two wins in the playoffs to give him the best chance of qualification as second seeds for the Euros.....

Neil3030

v3ttel wrote: »

Seems like criticising MON is the popular thing to do among Villa fans. Lots of willy waving about how rubbish he is, etc etc.

Maybe the standard of football isn't what you expected, or isn't the most attractive, fair enough. Look at the table before, during, and after his time there:

Before MON:16th
MON: 11th, 6th, 6th, 6th
After MON: 9th, 15th, 16th

Money or not, the club performed better whilst he was in charge. I think he'll get the best out of the limited group we have at international level. We don't necessarily have the players to play a possession game in any case.

He had brought Celtic to a European final in 2003 (their first since 1970). He made it very, very difficult for the elite European sides to go to Celtic Park and get any sort of result in the Champions League. That was with a very, very limited budget.

All the negativity is way over the top. He is a reasonably good manager, and the type of game he plays probably suits the group of players we have available at the moment. As with David Moyes at United, the manager must be backed to bring in whoever he wants as his staff. If he feels Roy Keane can add something there, fair enough.

Lets hope that Romania don't get two wins in the playoffs to give him the best chance of qualification as second seeds for the Euros.....

I take your point that he's a reasonable manager and probably as good as the Irish team could get. But to say that Villa fans (a) are alone in their criticism of MON (go talk to any Sunderland fan, for example) and (b) that it's just willy waving to criticise his modest achievements in light of the gigantic financial investment he oversaw, is horsesh*t.

homerjay2005

Neil3030 wrote: »

I take your point that he's a reasonable manager and probably as good as the Irish team could get. But to say that Villa fans (a) are alone in their criticism of MON (go talk to any Sunderland fan, for example) and (b) that it's just willy waving to criticise his modest achievements in light of the gigantic financial investment he oversaw, is horsesh*t.

in all fairness, you will be hard pressed to find many clubs who have praise for a manager who doesnt see out the full length of his contract or gets sacked by them.

in alot of cases, its the reaction of the fans that gets the manager sacked in the first place.

elefant

Maybe a fool's errand to predict how Keane will act, but I don't foresee him causing problems. He might be a hothead, and a straightshooter (which can be a bad combo), but he's no idiot. As long as things are run in a professional manner by someone he respects (and I doubt he'd be doing it if himself and Martin O'Neill didn't see eye to eye), he could be a good asset to the National Team.

Who knows how it will go. It's a risk, but I'm hoping it will work out well.

Pro. F

v3ttel wrote: »

Seems like criticising MON is the popular thing to do among Villa fans. Lots of willy waving about how rubbish he is, etc etc.

Maybe the standard of football isn't what you expected, or isn't the most attractive, fair enough. Look at the table before, during, and after his time there:

Before MON:16th
MON: 11th, 6th, 6th, 6th
After MON: 9th, 15th, 16th

Money or not, the club performed better whilst he was in charge. I think he'll get the best out of the limited group we have at international level. We don't necessarily have the players to play a possession game in any case.

He had brought Celtic to a European final in 2003 (their first since 1970). He made it very, very difficult for the elite European sides to go to Celtic Park and get any sort of result in the Champions League. That was with a very, very limited budget.

All the negativity is way over the top. He is a reasonably good manager, and the type of game he plays probably suits the group of players we have available at the moment. As with David Moyes at United, the manager must be backed to bring in whoever he wants as his staff. If he feels Roy Keane can add something there, fair enough.

Lets hope that Romania don't get two wins in the playoffs to give him the best chance of qualification as second seeds for the Euros.....

Villa performed better while he was in charge because he spent a lot more money than their other managers. A few sixth place finishes is nothing impressive considering the money he spent.

His budget at Celtic was also huge, by that club's standards, and he had one of the best strikers in the world playing for him.

Also he is currently operating without his favoured assistant who seems to have been the key to what he achieved in the past.

dinneenp

Gift Grub O Neill, Keane

Agueroooo

I am not one big excited about these appointments..

has implosion written all over it.

Nerdlingr

O'neill is damned if he does and damned if he doesnt by the Villa Fans. He can't win. Yes, he spent money. But look at what he was up against, the weight and power of the big Four plus the return of Man City. He improved Villa every year, they bettered their points tally each season he was there. top 6 finishes plus a cup final. And he made a nice bit of money back on the likes of milner, young, downing and barry... so its not like he totally bankrupt the club. He left the club in a good position which they subsquently f*cked up themselves by employing McLeish and Houllier.
I think he's a great appointment for Ireland. Keane...hmmmm. The less said the better.

Lovely Bloke

It certainly has a look of being set up for Keane to step into the managerial role once O'Neill goes though, doesn't it.

Your Airbag

I think in all of this its important to remember that MON apparently asked for Keane as his no.2.

So the FAI were going after MON as the manager, and whatever coaching staff they thought he would have picked. Now the dual manager angle the press has taken with the sotury is out of the FAI's hands.

It will be interesting so hear what they have to say for themselves as I think both Keane and MON are pundits for the UTD game on ITV tonight.