Primary Schools in Dublin 18

Exile on Grafton St.

Hi All, my wife and I are blow-ins and have two young babies. We're looking at Holy Trinity National School as a possible option for them (it's within walking distance from our place). Is it any good? Would you recommend another primary schools in the area?

eildar

Exile on Grafton St. wrote: »

Hi All, my wife and I are blow-ins and have two young babies. We're looking at Holy Trinity National School as a possible option for them (it's within walking distance from our place). Is it any good? Would you recommend another primary schools in the area?

It's a great school. My kids love it. They are in prefabs at the moment but I think the new building should be ready fot next year. You should put your childrens names down for it as early as possible as it seems to fill up very quickly.

Bustle

My grandaughter born April 2010 has been refused a place in her "5 minutes away from her home" Primary school in the Cabinteely area, apparently on the grounds of "no place available" and advised that there may be a "cancellation" place at Easter. Her parents moved to the area in July 2013 and immediately signed an application following a visit to the school and a meeting with Principal. There is no explanation in the letter and no advice for most anxious parents as to what they should do. My grandaughter is a happy preschooler since the beginning of this preschool year and her fellow preschoolers have been granted places in the local Primary.
Advice would be most welcome

coylemj

Bustle wrote: »

My grandaughter born April 2010 has been refused a place in her "5 minutes away from her home" Primary school in the Cabinteely area, apparently on the grounds of "no place available"

Bustle wrote: »

There is no explanation in the letter...

There is, the place is full. Or is there a sinister connotation implied in your use of the word 'apparently' above?

Bustle wrote: »

....and no advice for most anxious parents as to what they should do.

What kind of 'advice' are you expecting?

ted1

Bustle wrote: »

My grandaughter born April 2010 has been refused a place in her "5 minutes away from her home" Primary school in the Cabinteely area, apparently on the grounds of "no place available" and advised that there may be a "cancellation" place at Easter. Her parents moved to the area in July 2013 and immediately signed an application following a visit to the school and a meeting with Principal. There is no explanation in the letter and no advice for most anxious parents as to what they should do. My grandaughter is a happy preschooler since the beginning of this preschool year and her fellow preschoolers have been granted places in the local Primary.
Advice would be most welcome

Our daughter was born in Aug 09 and we put her name down for several schools in Oct 09. she is due to start a school in September but hasn't got a place yet.
we went to a meeting for potential new parents in 1 school. there is 60 places. 38 have gone to siblings of existing students, 12 have gone to peopel whose parents went there, 8 have gone to kids whose parents speak solely Irish to the kid. that leaves 1 place for 158 other applicant. shes between number 60 and number 70.

other schools are full or weren't taking names before this week for a September start.

the only advice you for you, is to try elsewhere. There's a limited number of places and there plenty of kids her age in the urban area.

Bustle

Thanks ted1
I am flabbergasted regarding the school where you were invited to a prospective parents' meeting.
If you "put her name down" for several schools - I am concluding that you are living in a city. The school must be running two Junior Infant classes - so it must be a large school. Sibling preference is rational for obvious reasons - but I cannot understand how the school is permitted to favour the children of former pupils IN A PRIMARY SCHOOL? It would be interesting to know if the Department has a view on that one! If a domestic language preference is also being imposed - speaking only Irish to one's child - I'd like the Department to articulate a view on that one also! I confess to a prejudice against Gael scoileanna (unless your school was one - I cannot understand why there is a domestic language preference}. In 1957 I was awarded a coveted State University Scholarship. In order to avail of it I had to do all my chosen subjects "through Irish" - from a standing start in English language County Tipperary. I've neither forgotten - nor forgiven!
Good luck to us all!

melekalikimaka

St Brigit's Boys in Foxrock, or Girls in Cabinteely, both the best public primary schools in the area

ted1

It is a gealscoil. We're based in killiney.

coylemj

Bustle wrote: »

If a domestic language preference is also being imposed - speaking only Irish to one's child - I'd like the Department to articulate a view on that one also! I confess to a prejudice against Gael scoileanna (unless your school was one - I cannot understand why there is a domestic language preference}.

There is an Irish language mafia in control in the Dept. of Education. I know a civil servant who was transferred there a few years ago, she said all of the top people spoke Irish to one another all day and if you weren't one of them, you were frozen out so seeing the writing on the wall, she got out.

Outside Dublin the Gaeilscoils are flourishing because of naked snobbery, parents who don't want their children mixing with immigrants or children from poor Irish families sign them up for the local Gaeilscoil which then expands to become the best primary school in town and the old national school becomes a ghetto.

Bustle wrote: »

In 1957 I was awarded a coveted State University Scholarship. In order to avail of it I had to do all my chosen subjects "through Irish" - from a standing start in English language County Tipperary. I've neither forgotten - nor forgiven!
Good luck to us all!

I also remember the time when you failed the Leaving cert and could go to no college and get no job interview if you failed Irish. You could have gotten an 'A' in Honours Maths and English and it made no difference. No Irish, no Leaving cert.

It is still the case (for St. Pat's Drumcondra) that an honour (C3 in Higher Level) in Leaving Cert. Irish is a mandatory requirement for primary teacher training which means that proficiency in a language that their pupils will hardly ever speak after leaving school is more important than a prospective trainee teacher's abilities in English or Maths. http://www.spd.dcu.ie/site/prospective_students/faq.shtml#q5

The people who run our education system clearly have their own priorities.

ted1

coylemj wrote: »

There is an Irish language mafia in control in the Dept. of Education. I know a civil servant who was transferred there a few years ago, she said all of the top people spoke Irish to one another all day and if you weren't one of them, you were frozen out so seeing the writing on the wall, she got out.

Outside Dublin the Gaeilscoils prosper because of snobbery, parents who don't want their children mixing with immigrants or children from poor Irish families sign them up for the local Gaeilscoil which then expands to become the best primary school in town and the old national school becomes a ghetto.



I also remember the time when you failed the Leaving cert and could go to no college and get no job interview if you failed Irish. You could have gotten an 'A' in Honours Maths and English and it made no difference. No Irish, no Leaving cert.

It is still the case (for St. Pat's Drumcondra) that an honour (C3 in Higher Level) in Leaving Cert. Irish is a mandatory requirement for primary teacher training which means that proficiency in a language that their pupils will hardly ever speak after leaving school is more important than a prospective trainee teacher's abilities in English or Maths. http://www.spd.dcu.ie/site/prospective_students/faq.shtml#q5

The people who run our education system clearly have their own priorities.

We'll have to disagree, Gael scoils have the longest waiting list, nothing to do with snobbery and there's more and more of them opening on Dublin.
Colaiste Eoin and Iosagain return great leaving Certs points and have a high level of students getting university offers.

Sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder.

I went to an English speaking national school and secondary school. But have friends and family who went/ go to Gael scoils. The parents seem to take more of an interest in their child's education and get involved. I see too many kids farmed off to English speak in national schools where the patents treat it like a baby sitting service and the kids education suffer

An Coilean

coylemj wrote: »

There is an Irish language mafia in control in the Dept. of Education.

The Dept. of Education has some how managed to have a lower proportion of Irish speakers than exist in the general population. If Irish speakers had any kind of sway in that department we would see radical change in how Irish is taught, not to mention a significently greater number of Gaelscoils opening.

Outside Dublin the Gaeilscoils are flourishing because of naked snobbery, parents who don't want their children mixing with immigrants or children from poor Irish families sign them up for the local Gaeilscoil which then expands to become the best primary school in town and the old national school becomes a ghetto.

Plenty of poor people and immigrants in Gaelscoils up and down the country. People from non English speaking countries tend to value language and understand far better than most Irish people why language diversity is important.
Gaelscoileanna are popular, get over it.

It is still the case (for St. Pat's Drumcondra) that an honour (C3 in Higher Level) in Leaving Cert. Irish is a mandatory requirement for primary teacher training which means that proficiency in a language that their pupils will hardly ever speak after leaving school is more important than a prospective trainee teacher's abilities in English or Maths. http://www.spd.dcu.ie/site/prospective_students/faq.shtml#q5

The people who run our education system clearly have their own priorities.

Imagine a teacher training college having a requirement that people who will be expected to teach a language during their career need to show some competence in that language. Madness.

coylemj

An Coilean wrote: »

Imagine a teacher training college having a requirement that people who will be expected to teach a language during their career need to show some competence in that language. Madness.

We are not talking about 'competence', we're talking about Honours Leaving Cert. standard. The colleges demand a higher level of achievement in Irish than they do for English or Maths. That is madness.

Which of those three subjects do you think will serve the pupils best in the real world, or are you still living in the Ireland imagined by De Valera?

An Coilean

coylemj wrote: »

We are not talking about 'competence', we're talking about Honours Leaving Cert. standard. The colleges demand a higher level of achievement in Irish than they do for English or Maths. That is madness.

Irish at LC level is set at a much more basic standard than English or Maths. The language proficiency you need to get an A in Honours level Irish is nothing like the language proficiency you need to get an A in honours level English.

''We are not talking about 'competence', we're talking about Honours Leaving Cert. standard.''
This is very true, because even getting an A in Irish for the LC does not signify much competence.

The reality is that even with a higher grade being required in Irish, the required proficiency in Irish is much lower than the required proficiency in English. But by all means, dont let reality get in the way of a good rant.

ted1

coylemj wrote: »

There is an Irish language mafia in control in the Dept. of Education. I know a civil servant who was transferred there a few years ago, she said all of the top people spoke Irish to one another all day and if you weren't one of them, you were frozen out so seeing the writing on the wall, she got out.

Outside Dublin the Gaeilscoils are flourishing because of naked snobbery, parents who don't want their children mixing with immigrants or children from poor Irish families sign them up for the local Gaeilscoil which then expands to become the best primary school in town and the old national school becomes a ghetto.



I also remember the time when you failed the Leaving cert and could go to no college and get no job interview if you failed Irish. You could have gotten an 'A' in Honours Maths and English and it made no difference. No Irish, no Leaving cert.

It is still the case (for St. Pat's Drumcondra) that an honour (C3 in Higher Level) in Leaving Cert. Irish is a mandatory requirement for primary teacher training which means that proficiency in a language that their pupils will hardly ever speak after leaving school is more important than a prospective trainee teacher's abilities in English or Maths. http://www.spd.dcu.ie/site/prospective_students/faq.shtml#q5

The people who run our education system clearly have their own priorities.

So your giving out that Irish adults speak Irish in the work place and then give out that they won't speak it after school. Kind of contradictory

highly1111

The educate together in Stepaside is wonderful. Only opened last year and only has 42 students. Apparently there is a big waiting list for coming years but i obviously don't know when your babies would be starting.

coylemj

An Coilean wrote: »

Irish at LC level is set at a much more basic standard than English or Maths.

Wow, as an exercise in twisting facts to suit your case, that takes the biscuit.

If what you say is true and given that almost all students coming through the second level system do Irish, why doesn't every one of them do honours Irish if it's so easy to get an honour compared to English or Maths?

An Coilean

coylemj wrote: »

Wow, as an exercise in twisting facts to suit your case, that takes the biscuit.

If what you say is true and given that almost all students coming through the second level system do Irish, why doesn't every one of them do honours Irish if it's so easy to get an honour compared to English or Maths?

Twisting what facts? It is true that there is a vast difference between the level at which the Irish and English curriculums are set.
Are you suggesting that the language proficiency needed to get an A in Irish is the same as that needed to get an A in English?

Honours Irish is not taken on as an easy option by most people because most people are not native Irish speakers, while they are Native English speakers. As such, going in first day, their English is at a much better level of proficiency than their Irish.
Put it this way, for native Irish speakers, it is piddelingly easy to get an honour in Irish. The course dose very little to develop their literacy in Irish.

Bustle

Dear All,

In my lifetime you could not get into University in this country without a Pass in Leaving Cert Latin.
Take a deep breath and ask yourself who benefited from that arrangement which ended in 60's. Someone will tell me when, exactly.

At this present juncture - I am not interested in "the language" - except to the extent that innocently or not it is being used to cloud the main problems from view and delay action as far as possible

I visualise current Irish Primary School Admission Policy as a large unwieldy parcel lumbering along festooned with dirty, frayed, multicoloured, labelled ribbons streeling along in its' wake. I list a selection, unordered.

Parental Convenience
Religious Power
Social Position
School Income
Cultural Values
Children's Diet/Physique
School Administration/Control
Balanced Curricula
Teaching Standards
Poorly Funded Teaching Upskilling
Staff Morale
Overloaded Administrators

The same ribbons are around our own necks.
The effect is to hamper any effort that has a prospect of improving the situation in a rat's nest of entanglement which, innocently or not, serves to delay action as much as possible.

And we pay for it all, week by week, day by day

Seaswimmer

Is the problem in Ireland caused by the fact that you can send your child to any school (theoretically).

If we were like the UK and America and you had to attend the schools in your area then would the problem be solved? But possibly then we would be giving out about having no choice.

Bustle

Dear Seaswimmer,

You can send your child to ANY primary school in Ireland
IF
Your application meets the School Admissions Policy requirements which are denominated by a variety of rules (some surprising) which may push your child down the list. This becomes crucial when there is pressure on Junior Infant Admission space. Information is hard to come by when everybody is "working the angles" while actually being as my mother used to say:
"sweet, civil and deceitful"
I'm off now to read DRAFT REGULATIONS ON ADMISSION PROCESS - an as yet unhatched egg in the DES.

Seaswimmer

Bustle wrote: »

Dear Seaswimmer,

You can send your child to ANY primary school in Ireland
IF
Your application meets the School Admissions Policy requirements which are denominated by a variety of rules (some surprising) which may push your child down the list. This becomes crucial when there is pressure on Junior Infant Admission space. Information is hard to come by when everybody is "working the angles" while actually being as my mother used to say:
"sweet, civil and deceitful"
I'm off now to read DRAFT REGULATIONS ON ADMISSION PROCESS - an as yet unhatched egg in the DES.

well I did say theoretically you can send your child to any school.

As you point out there are certain criteria for each school but forcing people to go to the designated schools in their area would solve the problem??

Of course we are assuming that there would be forward planning where schools would be built and staffed as required using census data and other available information.

They do it in other countries so why cant we??

Bustle

Dear All,
Thanks.
Minister Ruairi Quinn's office, has just replied to an eMail from me.
I'll share the info therein with family - it is the usual stuff but:

"The National Educational Welfare Board NEWB is the statutory agency which can assist parents who are experiencing difficulty in securing a place for their child. The NEWB may be able to offer assistance and advice on securing a school placement within the pupil's area. The contact details are NEWB, 16-22 Green Street Dublin 7 TeL (01)8738700.
Oddly - no mention of a website for this agency, not known to me till now but there they are, glossy and shiny at www.newb.ie . . . !
Onwards and Upwards!

coylemj

Bustle wrote: »

Dear All,

In my lifetime you could not get into University in this country without a Pass in Leaving Cert Latin.

Not true, unless you died in the 1960s and things were different before then.

In my lifetime NUI always accepted any 'foreign' (not Irish or English) language, you could have done French, German, Spanish etc., it did not have to be Latin.

And TCD demanded English and 'another' language for which Irish was accepted. So you could get into Trinity with just Irish and English. Funny that career guidance teachers in Catholic-run schools seemed to overlook this fact when advising pupils of their options!

Bustle

Dear All,
And, as far as I can see, NEWB has NO ideas about Primary School Admissions - after a one hour trawl of its' Website!
Back to DRAFT REGS ON THE ADMISSION PROCESS!

That username is already in use.

coylemj wrote: »

Gaeilscoils are flourishing because of naked snobbery, parents who don't want their children mixing with immigrants or children from poor Irish families

A classic tactic used by the anti-Irish brigade to discredit the Gaelscoil movement. Someone's got a mighty chip on their shoulder about the Irish language!

What coylemj is really saying: "I hate the Irish language and resent others taking an interest in it, so I am going to try and discredit them by accusing them of snobbery and racism."

Classic Anglophone monoglot Little Irelander.

Leftie18

Hi all, there is a new Gaelscoil that opened in Sept 13. They are on the grounds of DLSP Rugby Club and it is called Gaelscoil Shliabh Rua. They have very small numbers and by all accounts, they are doing very well. According to their Facebook they will be moving to a permanent site on the Ballyogan rd in 2015.

RainyDay

Check out the new Educate Together school planned for Stepaside / Ballinteer. I don't think they've firmed up on a location yet, but they were looking around Ballyogan.