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The main thing is keeping the main thing, the main thing

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,415 ✭✭✭Singer


    The 4%s are worth every penny. Just don't wear them when skiing. Have a ball not thinking about running :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Enjoy your week. I really love skiing holidays. That session today is quite interesting with a 60 minutes easy run after a tempo. I'm tempted to get those 4% the price tag is a bit off putting.

    It's part of a progression, eventually there's a 3m Tempo after the 60 mins.!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭El CabaIIo


    Just a few thoughts- The first 2 miles was too fast. it was at 17:40 5k pace, when was the last time you ran under 17:40 for a 5k race. 5:43 pace for a tempo would be the pace a 1:14 half marathoner would be looking at. The one or two more rep guideline is good for race specific repeats. For a cruise interval session, it's probably closer to 4 more reps to throw out a random number. It doesn't translate very well to that guideline as you never get remotely close to failure.

    On the CV reps- Tinman wouldnt reccomend 6x5min to someone at your level. Volume gets chosen by ability level and very few reach the requirements to run 8-10k of reps(only close to elite runners get that volume of CV work. I think you done 8k in that workout when maybe closer to 6k of volume would be what Tinman would reccomend for where you are at. Pace looks good though and the 200's are a nice addition.

    Enjoy the skiing!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    El CabaIIo wrote: »
    Just a few thoughts- The first 2 miles was too fast. it was at 17:40 5k pace, when was the last time you ran under 17:40 for a 5k race. 5:43 pace for a tempo would be the pace a 1:14 half marathoner would be looking at. The one or two more rep guideline is good for race specific repeats. For a cruise interval session, it's probably closer to 4 more reps to throw out a random number. It doesn't translate very well to that guideline as you never get remotely close to failure.

    On the CV reps- Tinman wouldnt reccomend 6x5min to someone at your level. Volume gets chosen by ability level and very few reach the requirements to run 8-10k of reps(only close to elite runners get that volume of CV work. I think you done 8k in that workout when maybe closer to 6k of volume would be what Tinman would reccomend for where you are at. Pace looks good though and the 200's are a nice addition.

    Enjoy the skiing!

    You are indeed quite right!
    I had a typo in my post - the 1st 2m rep was 11:57 (not 11:27).

    But I agree - too fast for a tempo - Daniels pace was to be 6:11


    Your point on the 6x5mins volume is interesting - heres my thought process 1st;

    I am prescribed 6x5mins Vo2max workout by Daniels - this equates to 5.4x pace.
    I can do an 'easier' session by reducing the pace to CV pace (5.56-6.04) and get a better bang for my buck by working Vo2 & LT - and not be as boll!xed afterwards.

    So in my mind, I done an easier (& possibly more beneficial) workout.

    Where did you read about how Tinman allocates volume of workouts?

    BTW - thanks for the reply- great to get some insight & questioning.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Catch up:

    Sunday 6th -Sunday 13th: Skiing trip.

    Sunday 13th: Up at 3:30am for the trip home :( - home by 12:30 and went out later on for a few miles. I had considered doing a long run, but thought that just a few miles and strides would set me up for the following week.

    5.3 miles inc some strides.

    Monday 14th: easy miles to the PP & back - A bit of a head cold/cough but all ok - 7.2 miles@ 8.05 pace.

    Tuesday 15th Bad Decision Day.

    I had a tough Daniels session planned for Wednesday - 4x2miles Tempo - but I finished work early enough and decided to pull it into Tuesday as I would have more daylight for it.

    3m warm up.
    1st 2m rep - it felt hard - the rep finished at 6:12 average - but the effort felt way harder.
    2nd 2m rep: - a tale of 2x1m - 1st mile at 6:07, 2nd mile at 6:18. I was really questioning the decision to do the workout. - Decided at this point to reduce the workout. Lets see how the next 2 went at 1.5m each (rather than 2) - Another bad decision - I should have canned it there.

    3rd rep 1st mile at 6.12 / last 0.5m at 6:27 - effort felt way higher. Maybe I should cut my losses now.

    I took an additional couple of mins -then decided to do the last rep - Bad decision #3.
    4th Rep: 1 mile from the Aras towards C'Knock gate - felt horrible - canned it as the mile beeped - 6.26pace - felt like a 5min/mile.

    My calf cramped slightly as I finished, which told its own tale and on the warm down it went again - 1st time I've cramped like that outside of a marathon.

    Anyway - I class it as a 6.5mile split tempo - and a good lesson learned.

    12mile total

    Wednesday:

    My quads were in a bad way on Wed morning. Felt like I'd ran a marathon.
    I guess a mixture of ski legs and the headcold took their toll on the body - and this was my punishment!

    A slow run to the park and back.
    6m @ 8.40 pace.

    Headcold recovering a lot.

    Thursday: Wednesdays slower pace done the body a world of good. Coupled with a good 9 hour sleep.

    I had a planned 10m run for today - but told my wife that I could be home at any stage, depending on how I felt.

    As it turned out, I felt great - the quads felt much better, the headcold much better (although both still lingering).

    10mile @7.59. (felt slower as I was just running very easy - in the dark too as my headtorch batteries died)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭El CabaIIo


    You are indeed quite right!
    I had a typo in my post - the 1st 2m rep was 11:57 (not 11:27).

    But I agree - too fast for a tempo - Daniels pace was to be 6:11


    Your point on the 6x5mins volume is interesting - heres my thought process 1st;

    I am prescribed 6x5mins Vo2max workout by Daniels - this equates to 5.4x pace.
    I can do an 'easier' session by reducing the pace to CV pace (5.56-6.04) and get a better bang for my buck by working Vo2 & LT - and not be as boll!xed afterwards.

    So in my mind, I done an easier (& possibly more beneficial) workout.

    Where did you read about how Tinman allocates volume of workouts?

    BTW - thanks for the reply- great to get some insight & questioning.

    That sounds fair enough.

    Most of the stuff I read on old letsrun threads from way back when he was posting a lot of stuff there and on his forum therunzone as well. I slightly underestimated the volume as I was looking for links there and found this second post on thread:

    http://www.therunzone.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2576

    To save you the slight bit of confusion I had looking at it first. He has the 5k time just marked as 15 for example and the corresponding volume range is between the second and third column.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Friday: An easy 7 miles down to the PP and back - 6x20s strides at the end to wake the legs up for a possible Sat session.

    7miles.

    Saturday: I had a session planned for today and I hmmed and hawwed for ages about doing it or leaving it til Sunday.
    Leaving it til Sunday would have consequences for my following weeks training as I want to get my long run in early in the week as I'm racing Raheny.

    The session was: 2mWU / 4x1mile off 1min / 60 mins easy / 3m tempo / CD

    My original plan was to wake early on Sat, do the 1st parts early and the last tempo as a parkrun - but as I had not had a lie in, in ages, I decided to sleep late and do the run a bit later - I did do a bit of mobility work before hand.

    My intention was to see how the WU went and then decide - I even drove to the PP to allow for any eventually.

    After a 2m WU - I dropped off the top I was wearing to the car and started off on the 4x1m - The reps were on the Furze, the North road, up Chesterfield and the OS road - so a fairly fair route. The 1 min recoveries are criminal :)

    The next part was the 60min easy which I converted to 7 miles. I was well wrapped again and didn't look at the watch once - the intention is to tire the legs after the 4x1 - so, I was fairly happy to see most miles were under 8 min/miles - not intentional - but a good retrospective confidence builder.
    After the 7 miles easy, I again, took off the outer layer and began the faster part.
    The 3mile Tempo was meant to be done at tempo pace, but that wasn't going to happen given the week I had.

    So I wanted to start at MP and work down as a progression - this worked a treat and felt I got some good work in - previously I had done 'steady' sections at the end of a long run - this was definitely faster than steady - so very happy to finish it as a progression.

    Then ran the remaining 1.5m back to the car - fairly wrecked - but delighted with the session.
    4x1m Tempo miles off 1 min (Target 6.11) - 6.07 / 6.05 / 6.14 / 6.09
    7m easy: About 7.50's
    3m Progression - 6:40 / 6.33 / 6:27

    18.2 miles total

    Sunday: Another glorious lie in - ran down to the PP, around the Glen and back hove via Castleknock Village.
    Listening to Scullions last few pod's prior to his Marathon and the OTB Rugby roadshow.
    Felt like 10 min miles as the legs were grand.

    7m @ 8.19 pace

    68 miles for the week - a good week with 2 good sessions and a good couple of core workouts - including the Hammys.

    The coming week requires an early long run - a mini session and then easy stuff prior to Raheny 5.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    ** The Following must be read in a Norn' Irish Accent **

    Hi Guys, for those tuning in for the 1st time, My names AuldmanKing - 2.58 marrrathonnnner and hoping to go faster - this is charting my progress to that goal in Rotterdam 2019.

    Now, what day is it, hey my wifes laughing at me.....go away you......oh yeah about yesterday, I went out and just done a wee run - about 7 miles, nutin' taxing - you gotta own the process - be responsible.

    And I'm the most process owning responsible person I know. I'm just so cool.

    Sooo, after that wee run, I put on my Normatechs - I got these on ebay you know - did I mention that??
    They're great - I know that I'm privileged to have these and you guys wont have them but thats because I'm an elite and you, well, your just not. But thats ok.

    I wasn't always an elite you know. I was a drinker - I was the heaviest drinker I know. But now, I'm disciplined.

    So, today was about just getting it done.
    I've a race next weekend and I just wanted to get my long run done. I know I had a long one on Saturday, but that was like 2 days ago. My wee run and my Norma techs helped me out......and as for those smoothies.

    So I just went out and blasted it - knocked it out of the park, 'cos thats what i do, I knock things out of the park....just ask Buchie.

    I done close on 18 miles, about 8.10 pace - I could've run much faster - a lot faster - but I didn't want too, the last 7 were a real b'stard though - the wind and rain were just cuttin' into me. Its not like the wind and rain that you get - this was much worse. It far near killed me. I could hardly feel my hands. I nearly didn't run it was so bad.

    But that woulda been weak - and thats not me, I'm the strongest person I know. I'm an animal.

    Right - I'm off for a sleep - this altitude is affecting my sinus.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭ReeReeG


    This made me chuckle


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭El CabaIIo


    Runningking is alive and unwell


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    El CabaIIo wrote: »
    Runningking is alive and unwell

    I was waiting for someone to say that :)
    RK for 1 day only! When needs must.

    Busy week this week + 2 races in coming 2 weeks coupled with a work trip next week meant that this was the only real opportunity to get it done.
    RK is back n his box.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭El CabaIIo


    I was waiting for someone to say that :)
    RK for 1 day only! When needs must.

    Busy week this week + 2 races in coming 2 weeks coupled with a work trip next week meant that this was the only real opportunity to get it done.
    RK is back n his box.

    Ah bollix, I even thought up an RK type log name.

    "The main thing is keeping the running king, the running king":)


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    El CabaIIo wrote: »
    Ah bollix, I even thought up an RK type log name.

    "The main thing is keeping the running king, the running king":)

    Ha! I'll use that in future.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭Duanington


    classic stuff


  • Registered Users Posts: 928 ✭✭✭TRR_the_turd


    ** The Following must be read in a Norn' Irish Accent **

    Hi Guys, for those tuning in for the 1st time, My names AuldmanKing - 2.58 marrrathonnnner and hoping to go faster - this is charting my progress to that goal in Rotterdam 2019.

    Now, what day is it, hey my wifes laughing at me.....go away you......oh yeah about yesterday, I went out and just done a wee run - about 7 miles, nutin' taxing - you gotta own the process - be responsible.

    And I'm the most process owning responsible person I know. I'm just so cool.

    Sooo, after that wee run, I put on my Normatechs - I got these on ebay you know - did I mention that??
    They're great - I know that I'm privileged to have these and you guys wont have them but thats because I'm an elite and you, well, your just not. But thats ok.

    I wasn't always an elite you know. I was a drinker - I was the heaviest drinker I know. But now, I'm disciplined.

    So, today was about just getting it done.
    I've a race next weekend and I just wanted to get my long run done. I know I had a long one on Saturday, but that was like 2 days ago. My wee run and my Norma techs helped me out......and as for those smoothies.

    So I just went out and blasted it - knocked it out of the park, 'cos thats what i do, I knock things out of the park....just ask Buchie.

    I done close on 18 miles, about 8.10 pace - I could've run much faster - a lot faster - but I didn't want too, the last 7 were a real b'stard though - the wind and rain were just cuttin' into me. Its not like the wind and rain that you get - this was much worse. It far near killed me. I could hardly feel my hands. I nearly didn't run it was so bad.

    But that woulda been weak - and thats not me, I'm the strongest person I know. I'm an animal.

    Right - I'm off for a sleep - this altitude is affecting my sinus.

    :rolleyes: and then people wonder why others don't put themselves and their thought process out there!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    :rolleyes: and then people wonder why others don't put themselves and their thought process out there!

    you serious?
    I thought it was more comedic rather than disparaging. I doubt SS is too worried.:p


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,070 ✭✭✭Baby75


    LOL very good:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,415 ✭✭✭Singer


    #iamananimal

    Maybe we should all publish podcasts every second day! If it works for the elites... :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,834 ✭✭✭OOnegative


    Best of luck tomorrow A, run well!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    May you have the most wonderful cramp free five miles of your entire life


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Tuesday: Recovery run - just over 5 miles at 8.45 pace. Can really recall this one, but Strava says it happened!

    Wednesday: Session - 4x200 / 2x400 / 800 / 2x400 / 4x200

    This is one that Luke had me do last year at this time - so said I'd do it again - I took a lot from the year or so with him.
    I was working off memory for this - but I recall him saying that the 800 was to be the fastest rep - with the 200's & 400's more controlled.

    1st set of 200's in about 40 seconds - 5:30 pace.
    The 2x400's were 1.25 / 1.22 (5.45/5.33 pace)
    800m in 2.42 (5.26)

    Next set of 400's in 1.26 / 1.19 (5.46 / 5.27)
    Last set of 200's in 39 secs - 35 for the last :)

    Pretty tired after this one - its been a while since I ran at that pace. A lot of tempos in my plan - so this was welcome.

    7.9m total.

    Thursday: 6m @ 8.26 pace - felt very tired mentally & physically doing this. Thought about pulling out of Raheny as I was so tired.

    Friday: Bit of a bedlam day - the miracle dog - those who know me, know my dog had a bad episode a few months ago - well, she had another turn, which seen me leave work at 11am to go to the vet with her. I think she's secretly a cat with another 7 lives. All good.

    Thought about not running, with the race on Sunday - but then remembered that I'm training for a Marathon, not a 5m race.......The main thing etc.

    So went out and done a lap of the park and 7x20sec strides.

    Felt fantastic during & after - Running is a funny old sport.

    7m @ 8 min/mile.

    Saturday: Out in the early evening for a couple of miles and more strides.

    3.2m total


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Sunday 27th - Raheny 5mile.

    I was going into this race on the back of Marathon training, but feeling a good bit of confidence as the training so far is somewhat similar to the training I did in 2017 - I was using the JD 10k plan back then, with a lot of tempos and it done me good in terms of PB's.
    The marathon plan so far is something similar - the specific work starts in a few weeks though.

    So - despite close on 50 miles in the legs at the start of the race, I was confident of a good performance - I thought 29.3x was doable.

    3pm Sunday races are a bit evil as you spend all weekend waiting for it - but this was worth the wait as I kept telling myself.
    I completed a 2.5m warm up with only a couple of strides as I doubled back to the car to get my gloves (10 mins prior to the race starting) - it was a pretty cold day and a bit blustery in places.

    Lined up in as good a position as I could - I reckon you need to start lining up NOW to get a good place for next years race :)
    We were set off a good bit before the gantry and I started my watch under the gantry, as did a lot of people - I believe this was a mistake as the start was before the gantry.......like that makes sense.

    The 1st 0.5m or so was weaving in & out, trying to get a good line - I think I passed a few hundred people at this stage.
    As I approached the 1st mile, I seen a few Bros P runners inc RayCun and another guy who is always ahead of me - So I reckoned I was in good company here.

    First mile beeped in 5.48 - feeling good.

    The 2nd mile seen me get a good line and I was able to stretch the legs a little more comfortably, still passing people and no one passing me.
    Mile 2 came very quickly in 5.49.

    I was very surprised how good I was feeling at this stage. We turned and the wind died off and we were going downhill and it was magic - for a while I was at 5.3x pace, but the memory of the windy Park section still haunts me, so I dialed off the gas here.

    Mile 3 was a wonderful 5.47.

    Just after the marker we go into the park and turn for the out & back section, the worst part of the course IMO - I see DD who gives me a shout and I keep working.
    Prior to the race, I had 2 strategies for this race - (1) Get a good starting position (2) Work on the 'Out' section in the park.

    So I kept pumping the arms - feeling the breeze - (afterwards I seen that this is actually a downhill part !!!!). I turned and checked the watch - still under 6 min/miles. Terrific. - Last year was a lot worse.

    Mile 4 beeped at 5.56 (and I was starting to feel the effort).

    As we began mile 5, I started to think that I could be close to a PB - just try to finish it out.
    But, the legs were fading fast, I checked the watch and it was going downhill fast - 5.55/6.00/6.10/6.15 - I tried to inject some pace by pumping the arms - I got a little motivation when we exited the park and I could see the turn - it took forever to come, but at this stage I passed by a Dunboyne runner who I've never beaten - another Alan - and this gave me a lot of focus to stay ahead of him.

    Turn the corner and keep pumping - take the little turn, then the home straight.
    I recall last year being able to take 2-3 guys ahead of me - this year was just about finishing it out - I did speed up though, and seen the clock tick over 29 mins - what!! - 29 mins - I sprinted those last 20-30 meters.

    I finished with 28.51 on the watch - as I started the watch under the gantry. Official results have it at 28.55 - my PB is 28.53 :)

    So - I'll take the official results as I'm delighted to run such a good time at this time of the year. Never thought I'd run that again for a 5m!!!

    5m: 28.55 (2 secs off a PB) - Delighted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭MY BAD


    Well done. You were running beside from Mount Prospect Avenue to St Annes. Very effortless stride, strong and in control. Its going to be a good year ahead


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Nice one Alan. A great confidence booster heading into a couple of big months training wise :)

    "We were set off a good bit before the gantry and I started my watch under the gantry, as did a lot of people - I believe this was a mistake as the start was before the gantry.......like that makes sense."

    That explains things...sort of :o so where exactly WAS the start!? A bit bizarre for a race of that size/stature no?


  • Registered Users Posts: 928 ✭✭✭TRR_the_turd


    Well done on your run.

    Usually the start line is where the gun is fired from, I.e the start line. I’m guessing the gantry was the finishing gantry and not a starting gantry.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,455 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    With RFID it's harder to spot the start line these days as there's no mat. Pretty much everyone assumed the gantry. No matter: terrific run, well done sir!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Well done on your run.

    Usually the start line is where the gun is fired from, I.e the start line. I’m guessing the gantry was the finishing gantry and not a starting gantry.

    Thanks Dave.

    The thing is, no one knew where the actual start was. No mat or visible marker. The gantry was a few meters ahead, hence the confusion (with the majority who I spoke to.)
    Anyway still a run I'm proud off.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    Great pacing A. Well run race. .


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭overpronator


    Well done again man, great run. I was another thicko who couldn't figure out the start. I basically walked up to the gantry at the start after the gun because of the traffic on front of me, cost me those few 4 or 5 seconds. I do remember thinking that it was a really long time between gun and starting lime. My own fault for not figuring it out.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,834 ✭✭✭OOnegative


    Nice racing A, well done.


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